I wouldn't give up 3 #1's for Dak. Watson definitely. Wilson is a tougher call. Great player but he's 33 in November. How well do we think he ages? And can the Pats put together a good enough team around him to make it worth it? I have my doubts on that front.
_If_ you could work out a lowish contract I'd be one hundred percent on board; I think you'd have a five year window for high quality play and that's a lot more valuable than, for example, Wynn Michel and Harry.
The Cowboys slapped the exclusive franchise tag on Dak, so other teams couldn’t sign him. I can’t think of another case where the exclusive tag was used, so JJ must have felt there was an unacceptable risk that another team would part with two 1st-rounders for the right to give Dak what JJ wouldn’t. Presumably, any team that did that would’ve been very confident those picks would end up in the 20s.
They literally just went 7-9 with a QB who was throwing IF ground ball practice in games and they likely have guys like Hightower, Cannon, and Chung returning. Where is this 4-12 stuff coming from?
Bingo
Reasonable to think he is referring to this year's Houston Texans. Even though they were battling some coaching turnover, I think ZMart's point is valid. Let's worry about fixing some of the holes on this roster first before we trade three first round picks. Watson is an interesting example and I might be persuaded, but no way do I do that for Dak and Russ.
The confusion stemmed from the next sentences talking about giving away picks and the Patriots roster
And where is the QB coming from? This plan sounds great in concept but what happens when, as someone above posted, those first round picks turn into Wynn, Harry, and Michel? With Watson, you know you're getting a stud. I would absolutely lock that in for 3 #1's. Quite frankly, it would likely take more.
Yeah, I don’t get all of the angst at giving up 3 #1 picks for Watson. The reality is that with Belichick this team will be reasonably competitive anyways — so giving up #15-30 picks in the NFL is somewhat of a crapshoot. Getting a top 5 QB on a good contract who is 25 years old is once in a generation type stuff. You don’t do it for everyone, but you do it for “Michael Jordan” in my opinion.
I mean, if you can turn 3 1sts into an elite QB on what would become a slightly under market deal, that's a great way to be able to afford the other players.
I'm with you there. Watson is the one guy who you empty the bank for in terms of picks.
So I know this probably isn't a favorable answer here but the more and more I think about it and read through these threads, I'm starting to think that this is not the year that the Patriots find the next great New England quarterback. None of the free agent quarterbacks are worth getting excited about, and I really don't see Bill getting crazy and trading for that fourth pick. Trading anything for Mariota feels like a mistake because he's not that great, and Jimmy G is way too overpaid. I know the Patriots have the cap room but they should still spend it wisely. The 15th pick isn't that enticing to a lot of teams, mainly because there are multiple teams ahead of them that could make a move.
I would pay an unreasonable price for Watson. I think the problem is that the Patriots offer would have to be clearly better than any other team's, because of the media shitshow that would ensue and the antipathy Easterby (thinks Pats are ratting him out to SI) feels towards NE.
They had a good OL and excellent secondary last year; we'll see when it comes to the future. Thuney, Andrews, and Eluemunor are all FAs. The core secondary players (DMac, Gilmore, and Chung) are all old, J.C. Jackson is a RFA. Gilmore might demand a trade. The OL and secondary could look at lot different in 2021 and unrecognizable in 2022.
I mean sure... they also have a ton of cap space. You would much rather have minimal commitments and tons of cap space in the best buyer's market in years than the opposite. Gilmore and Jackson possibly could go, but they would bring back value. The point is the Patriots are in a really strong position to build around a top QB if they could acquire one. Without one... well they can still build pretty well, but the finished product will be much lower ceiling.
I don't agree that they are in a strong position to build around a top QB. They are bottom-10 in the NFL in young talent and maybe bottom-five. Yes, they have cap space. I don't think the market is going to be as promising as you and many others do; I expect there will be a lot of bargains / value in one year deals, but the high-ticket / prime age free agents aren't going to be discounted much at all (teams can backload deals with limited Y1 hits). That will let the Patriots assemble some pieces for 2021, but I don't think it addresses the fundamental lack of core players / young talent.
I agree with this although I will quibble on the young talent question simply because young talent changes so much so quickly--I view young talent as players in years 1-4 (I'll give you first round picks on option years) and we don't know a quarter of those players pre-draft, and like every team there are still a lot of questions about last year's rookies and there's still some hope that that crew has more ability than we've seen so far. But the pats absolutely need to nail a couple of years worth of player acquestions to get back to being a 10-6 or better, AFC contender again.
I think you make that call, get the story leaked, and hope that Watson gets intrigued by the idea of playing for the Patriots and forces their hand.
That's fair - young talent can change pretty fast. But the two classes we do know about, the 2018 and 2019 classes, look pretty bad so far.
Agreed with all of this. They’re not good and they need to do a lot of good things to get good again.
Not as big of a challenge with all that cap space and the BB method of having a deep middle class instead of the old Colts top heavy approach.
Agreed. OTOH, the Pats will be needing to find starter-level players at some of the most costly positions: QB, WR, TE, OT, Edge, CB.
https://www.espn.com/blog/new-england-patriots/post/_/id/4822288/cam-newton-marcus-mariota-jimmy-garoppolo-patriots-must-move-soon-at-qb
I feel like this same bit could also be said for Mariota, Teddy B (conceivably, post-draft), and a few others.
Honestly yeah. If I'm worried about guys not signing without a QB (I don't totally buy it) I just offer Cam a new deal with the knowledge he's well liked on the team and in the league, and he'll be cheap enough that if I get the opportunity to sign or draft someone else he can be a useful enough backup.
NE would almost certainly pay him $27M if he were a FA right now. WFT and Carolina both have the cap room to absorb that figure, and the need as well; I'd think they both would be interested in him too.
He's not worth $27M. He's an injury prone player that has been inconsistent. Just look at Cam last year, if Jimmy gets released, I don't expect him to get close to $27M. He'll get a $10M prove it deal with incentives.
This probably makes sense. I don't think there's a big market for these guys. Like SF and CAR are only going to make Garoppolo / Bridgewater available if they get someone better (i.e., Watson, Dak, or maybe one of the rookies). They're not gonna cut Jimmy to go sign Mariota or Trubisky. The only teams that are likely looking for a starting QB in this tax bracket are the Patriots, Washington, and maybe Chicago (even then - is Mariota an upgrade on Foles?). Pittsburgh looks like they're bringing back Ben. Then these guys will have opportunities to sign with a team that has a shaky young starter (Denver, Miami, Giants), but they won't start day one.
It doesn't make sense for Carolina. He's probably a lateral move from Bridgewater and they have to eat $20 MM in dead money to cut Bridgewater ($10 MM if they trade him). WFT is a possibility.
Right, and that's when this becomes a game of musical chairs, crossed with a game of chicken. On both sides, really -- do teams wait out any of these types of quarterbacks, or do they strike quickly? Do the quarterbacks take the first good deal, or wait to see if what they see as a better fit comes calling?
The Panthers gave TBW 3/63 with $33M guaranteed. Someone will give up value to get Jimmy G at 1/27 if the Niners don’t want him —it’s a slightly higher cap number, but the lack of long-term commitment is huge.
It's silly season. Casserly's first mock, out today at nfl.com, has the Falcons taking a running back at #4
Hey, I'm just relating it, I didn't make the pick.
#8, after trading down, but yeah still ridiculous
