Pepper was tough but I figured we had lost worse and survived. I remember thinking, at least we still got Dante.
Patriots Coaching Staff Changes
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
DeGuglielmo actually went to Lexington High and has pretty deep local roots as well as serious connections to the Parcells/Coughlin coaching tree - he played at BU when Tony Sparano coached there, was a graduate assistant under Coughlin at BC, and then got his break in the NFL with Coughlin in New York. He may have shot off his mouth a few times with the Jets but I bet he came highly recommended by people BB trusts.
Why does everyone think the sky is falling?
Playing devils advocate:
1. Dante could ostensibly be blamed for the Giants SB loss in '07.
2. Mankins and Solder both regressed in 2013.
3. The o-line stank against Denver last week.
OTOH, is it possible that BB has more say about this aspect of the offense than we believe?
Change isn't the worst thing in the world.
Playing devils advocate:
1. Dante could ostensibly be blamed for the Giants SB loss in '07.
2. Mankins and Solder both regressed in 2013.
3. The o-line stank against Denver last week.
OTOH, is it possible that BB has more say about this aspect of the offense than we believe?
Change isn't the worst thing in the world.
Van Everyman said:
I'll admit the o line has regressed some recently. Dante just seemed to be able to turn anyone into a successful blocker/pass protector. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors and we like to remember things that way when they were just really good at evaluating talent, but knee jerk reaction, this seems like a pretty big loss.
Just cause I'm curious; how much are the approximate salaries for each of these coaching positions?
Scarnecchia has been a great coach, but I'm not super-worried. You have to imagine Belichick has anticipated this for a while, and Daboll should help to smooth the transition. Belichick knows a thing or two about O-line play (don't forget, Belichick's position was C in his playing days). The line is a veteran group with some talent - Mankins and Solder were first-round picks and Vollmer was a second. These guys aren't going to forget how to block people overnight.
As for the idea the Pats can plug in just about anybody and have that work ... the two guys we're talking about replacing in other threads are the two undrafted guys. Some higher picks, like Adrian Klemm, Greg Robinson-Randall, Kenyatta Jones, and Rich Ohrnberger, have failed.
As for the idea the Pats can plug in just about anybody and have that work ... the two guys we're talking about replacing in other threads are the two undrafted guys. Some higher picks, like Adrian Klemm, Greg Robinson-Randall, Kenyatta Jones, and Rich Ohrnberger, have failed.
Jeff Howe @jeffphowe1m
Pats lose third positional coach in 36 hours as George Godsey heads to the Texans, per @RapSheet.
https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/426192308816855040
RT @RapSheet: #Patriots are losing TE coach George Godsey, as he’ll join his good friend #Texans coach Bill O’Brien
Pats lose third positional coach in 36 hours as George Godsey heads to the Texans, per @RapSheet.
https://twitter.com/jeffphowe/status/426192308816855040
RT @RapSheet: #Patriots are losing TE coach George Godsey, as he’ll join his good friend #Texans coach Bill O’Brien
soxhop411 said:
I hope BB has not secretly told all the assistants 2014 would be his LAST year, and they're fleeing the ship now.
Yeah there are no evidence to this whatsoever but I am saying just to reverse-jinx it.
I hope BB has not secretly told all the assistants 2014 would be his LAST year, and they're fleeing the ship now.
Yeah there are no evidence to this whatsoever but I am saying just to reverse-jinx it.
Brady too.
Everybody freak out!!!
Yeah there are no evidence to this whatsoever but I am saying just to reverse-jinx it.
Brady too.
Everybody freak out!!!
uh?
RT @TonyGrossi: Confirmed: #Browns and #Patriots OC Josh McDaniels had more conversations this week. Possibly back in mix.
https://twitter.com/brian_mcintyre/status/426203865600778240
RT @TonyGrossi: Confirmed: #Browns and #Patriots OC Josh McDaniels had more conversations this week. Possibly back in mix.
https://twitter.com/brian_mcintyre/status/426203865600778240
False alarm?
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet8m
Mike Pettine is the clear favorite for the #Browns job heading into tomorrow. Josh McDaniels is not back in the mix.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet8m
Mike Pettine is the clear favorite for the #Browns job heading into tomorrow. Josh McDaniels is not back in the mix.
https://twitter.com/RapSheet
They spend the first half of the song selling you on this dance, and promising to teach it to you. But they never do.SeoulSoxFan said:
Godsey was expected to leave.this isn't a surprise. Makes its likely for Daboll to now coach TE.
When he leaves to become BOB's defensive coordinator in Houston we're really going to be pissed.SeoulSoxFan said:
Turnover among NFL coaching staffs is nothing new these days, so I don't see the big deal. Scarnecchia is 65, and I'm sure he discussed this with Belichick before. I doubt Belichick has suddenly lost the ability to find competent position coaches.
Scar's a great coach and all but it's a little hard for me to think he's irreplaceable a few days after a pedestrian front seven walked all over our very expensive o-line. I know there's a synergy with the passing game and lines look worse when receiving options are limited but still.
With the advance warning I think we should be able to replace him with a very, very good coach--and hopefully one who doesn't put Brady in precarious situations by asking his lines to make very, very hard blocks on play-action.
With the advance warning I think we should be able to replace him with a very, very good coach--and hopefully one who doesn't put Brady in precarious situations by asking his lines to make very, very hard blocks on play-action.
Shelterdog said:
While true, the gameday coaching skill is not the real reason to be disappointed Dante is retiring. When he worked out and recommended a prospect, that guy most often became a good player in the NFL. Steve Neal, Connelly, Solder and Mankins are the famous examples, but guys like Ted Larsen, Rich Ohrnberger and even Donald Thomas were Dante's production. He knew talent and how to coach it up.
It's not determined that he wouldn't be available for consulting. If he is good at identifying talent he might consult the team on that on the side. A lot of retired coordinators and or head coaches do that on a very part time basis.
You've made this point a few times ... do you have a link for this? I've never read anything that suggests Scarnecchia was heavily involved in the talent evaluation side of things.soxfan121 said:
Pepper leaving seems to be more of an emotional blow to the team than from an X's and O's standpoint . Not saying he wasn't competent in that, but it seems like a bigger blow from the player perspective.
Could actually see Vince taking a job on the coaching staff within the next few years, barring the use of deer antler spray for his Achilles.
I found this in a Mike Reis article at espn:Super Nomario said:
So maybe Scar did have a bit to do with scouting?
Dante was involved in scouting--for example he worked out Solder a day or two before the draft. http://www.telegram.com/article/20110429/NEWS/104299777/1009
Of course all coaches participate in the draft process, so I don't think any of us know whether Dante was the mastermind of the offensive line or just another voice at a table.
Hopefully BB is just replacing Luca Brasi with Al Neri here.
Of course all coaches participate in the draft process, so I don't think any of us know whether Dante was the mastermind of the offensive line or just another voice at a table.
Hopefully BB is just replacing Luca Brasi with Al Neri here.
soxfan121 said:
This is exactly what worries me about Dante retiring. He could take a nobodies who got paid peanuts and make them adequate players. It seems like every year we got one starter and at least one backup who made the minimum as a result of Dante. He probably saved us $3-5M in cap dollars a season with his coaching up ability, and I dont know if we can really replace that.
I think this is overblown. The Pats' OL has two first-rounders and a second-rounder, and Connolly makes decent money. They occasionally patch in with rookies or undrafted guys, but around the league OL is not a position teams usually invest heavily in, particularly in the interior.wutang112878 said:
Super Nomario said:
Agreed. Connolly (like Koppen or Neal or to a lesser extent Kazcur) may have humble roots but when guys start for years and then get paid after hitting free agency you're talking about legitimately good, proven players, not spare parts.
So I was going to retort with a list of all the nobodies that Scar developed. Turns out its a pretty finite list. Mainly Wendell, Connolly, Neal, and Koppen. Over a decade plus thats not really that amazing of a list, basically every 2 years he develops a starting caliber guy on the cheap. Face meet egg
So I was going to retort with a list of all the nobodies that Scar developed. Turns out its a pretty finite list. Mainly Wendell, Connolly, Neal, and Koppen. Over a decade plus thats not really that amazing of a list, basically every 2 years he develops a starting caliber guy on the cheap. Face meet egg
I think a lot of the reputation comes from the success they've had plugging in guys like Kline or Nick McDonald on short notice and having them succeed, or at least not fail. But it's hard to isolate how much of that is Scarnecchia and how much is Belichick's commitment to the back end of the roster.
I think a lot of the reputation comes from the success they've had plugging in guys like Kline or Nick McDonald on short notice and having them succeed, or at least not fail. But it's hard to isolate how much of that is Scarnecchia and how much is Belichick's commitment to the back end of the roster.
You've made this point a few times ... do you have a link for this? I've never read anything that suggests Scarnecchia was heavily involved in the talent evaluation side of things.
Wasn't it Scar who saw Vollmer and got BB to draft him in the second round, when most projected him to go at least a couple of rounds later?
Wasn't it Scar who saw Vollmer and got BB to draft him in the second round, when most projected him to go at least a couple of rounds later?
Wasn't it Scar who saw Vollmer and got BB to draft him in the second round, when most projected him to go at least a couple of rounds later?
Here it is: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/dante-scarnecchia-the-patriots-forgotten-man/
Vollmer grew up in Germany and picked up football when he was 14. When he arrived for his freshman year at the University of Houston (the Cougars had noticed him during an international tournament in San Diego), he spoke next to no English. Even by the time Vollmer’s college career was finished, he was a rough-around-the-edges prospect. Despite being first-team All–Conference USA, he wasn’t even invited to the combine in 2009.
He was still considered by some to be a mid- to late-round flyer, and in lieu of a combine trip, several teams sent assistants to Houston for private workouts. Scarnecchia was one of them, and when the Patriots took Vollmer in the second round (optimistic projections had him closer to the fourth), it was likely with plenty of the coach’s input. In three years, Vollmer went from project to one of the best right tackles in football.
Article is worth a read as a whole as well.
Here it is: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/dante-scarnecchia-the-patriots-forgotten-man/
Vollmer grew up in Germany and picked up football when he was 14. When he arrived for his freshman year at the University of Houston (the Cougars had noticed him during an international tournament in San Diego), he spoke next to no English. Even by the time Vollmer’s college career was finished, he was a rough-around-the-edges prospect. Despite being first-team All–Conference USA, he wasn’t even invited to the combine in 2009.
He was still considered by some to be a mid- to late-round flyer, and in lieu of a combine trip, several teams sent assistants to Houston for private workouts. Scarnecchia was one of them, and when the Patriots took Vollmer in the second round (optimistic projections had him closer to the fourth), it was likely with plenty of the coach’s input. In three years, Vollmer went from project to one of the best right tackles in football.
Article is worth a read as a whole as well.
It's a good article.SeoulSoxFan said:
It's great that he worked out Vollmer, and I'm sure he had some input in the decision to draft him, but I'm not convinced he's the real brains behind all the OL picks.
Donald Thomas was a pretty nice project as well. Point stands though, maybe we've been over valuing him.
Uh, BB getting ready to go? Yikes.
@AdamSchefter: Dolphins on to new candidate for vacant GM job: Patriots director of pro personnel Nick Caserio, who is in Miami interviewing today.
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/426759428516245504
@AdamSchefter: Dolphins on to new candidate for vacant GM job: Patriots director of pro personnel Nick Caserio, who is in Miami interviewing today.
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/426759428516245504
Uh, BB getting ready to go? Yikes.
@AdamSchefter: Dolphins on to new candidate for vacant GM job: Patriots director of pro personnel Nick Caserio, who is in Miami interviewing today.
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/426759428516245504
Something would have come out by now if BB was thinking of leaving I think.
@AdamSchefter: Dolphins on to new candidate for vacant GM job: Patriots director of pro personnel Nick Caserio, who is in Miami interviewing today.
https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/426759428516245504
Something would have come out by now if BB was thinking of leaving I think.
I can see why Caserio might be interviewing for this. He doesn't have total control of football operations, Belichick is hard to work for, and Ross could be offering more money. I don't know why he would rather work in Miami than New England, but these reasons could be why.
These guys are all looking for promotions/greater control.
I don't see how this bears on BB's future. If anything, their departures/willingness to depart imply the opposite: that Bill is staying. Assuming for the sake of argument that Bill's short-term plans factor in at all to their decision-making, if they thought Bill was leaving within the next year or two AND felt stuck in their current position, then they'd have LESS incentive to leave. After all, he's going to be gone, yes? And who would be most likely to get more authority in the wake of BB's departure? The incumbents, like Nick Caserio.
I don't see how this bears on BB's future. If anything, their departures/willingness to depart imply the opposite: that Bill is staying. Assuming for the sake of argument that Bill's short-term plans factor in at all to their decision-making, if they thought Bill was leaving within the next year or two AND felt stuck in their current position, then they'd have LESS incentive to leave. After all, he's going to be gone, yes? And who would be most likely to get more authority in the wake of BB's departure? The incumbents, like Nick Caserio.
Mystic Merlin said:
I agree with the bolded above, but if BB is going to leave and Kraft intends to bring in a new HC (who will presumably want to bring in his own staff and player personel...)