Patriots Coaching Staff Changes

Jettisoned

Jettisoned

Member
SoSH Member
May 6, 2008
1,059
BB does seem to place a lot of value on mentoring new coaches and establishing a coaching tree.  My guess is that if coaches under him are able to get better gigs on other teams, he encourages them to do so. 
 
This probably won't make them less competitive.  If losing a few position coaches and a coordinator were going to torpedo a season, it would have happened already.
 
MarcSullivaFan

MarcSullivaFan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 21, 2005
3,412
Hoo-hoo-hoo hoosier land.
Mystic Merlin said:
These guys are all looking for promotions/greater control.
 
I don't see how this bears on BB's future.  If anything, their departures/willingness to depart imply the opposite: that Bill is staying.  Assuming for the sake of argument that Bill's short-term plans factor in at all to their decision-making, if they thought Bill was leaving within the next year or two AND felt stuck in their current position, then they'd have LESS incentive to leave.  After all, he's going to be gone, yes?  And who would be most likely to get more authority in the wake of BB's departure?  The incumbents, like Nick Caserio.
Click to expand...
You're probably right, and I was definitely being overdramatic. The one scenario I could see is McD taking over as head coach and BB moving upstairs.
 
Shelterdog

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
tims4wins said:
If Caserio leaves, does that make it more or less likely we draft Tavon Wilsons in the 2nd round?
Click to expand...
 
Impossible to tell. Hell Wilson might have been Caserio's idea for all we know. 
 
My best guess is that it makes no difference because the buck stops with Bill on high draft picks and major free agent signings.
 
dcmissle

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
Mystic Merlin said:
These guys are all looking for promotions/greater control.
 
I don't see how this bears on BB's future.  If anything, their departures/willingness to depart imply the opposite: that Bill is staying.  Assuming for the sake of argument that Bill's short-term plans factor in at all to their decision-making, if they thought Bill was leaving within the next year or two AND felt stuck in their current position, then they'd have LESS incentive to leave.  After all, he's going to be gone, yes?  And who would be most likely to get more authority in the wake of BB's departure?  The incumbents, like Nick Caserio.
Click to expand...
 
Agreed.  A BB departure would likely increase Caserios'  power -- unless some other big-profile guy is coming in here with his own crew, and we've seen no indication of that.
 
What we are seeing is normal, people keep their options open and sometimes move on.
 
wutang112878

wutang112878

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2007
6,066
I think we need to put the losses in perspective.  We had 3 coaches leave, one of whom wasnt that high up the ladder.  But I think we are spoiled because we have had such continuity for so long after the Weiss and Romeo departures.  We had Obrien and McDaniels leave for promotions, that stuff is inevitable if you have great coaches.  Then the biggest departures I can think of have been Pees who it seems might have been told to leave and Seely left to join Mangenius.  Over a decade that seems like very minimal change in todays NFL.
 
Smiling Joe Hesketh

Smiling Joe Hesketh

Throw Momma From the Train
Moderator
SoSH Member
May 20, 2003
35,865
Deep inside Muppet Labs
MarcSullivaFan said:
That's fair (if accurate), but how many guys did Belichick identify that Caserio agreed with? In other words, he should get credit for his good ideas that scouting bought into, not just the bad ideas that they disagreed with.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, odd how Bedard thinks that all the busts were BB's idea over Cesario's. But I'm suuuuuure that's never the opposite, no sirree.
 
Bedard knows nothing.
 
Mystic Merlin

Mystic Merlin

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 21, 2007
46,896
Hartford, CT
I wouldn't say that, but he's pretty shamelessly pushing a perspective on BB, without actually coming out and saying it.
 
For all we know, Caserio wanted to avoid Gronk, convinced BB to overlook Hernandez's baggage, advised against Solder, etc.  I have a strong inkling that Bedard's source for all of these examples of Nick Caserio being overruled by BB, to disastrous results, is Nick Caserio.
 
PedroKsBambino

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
31,335
soxfan121 said:
 
While true, the gameday coaching skill is not the real reason to be disappointed Dante is retiring. When he worked out and recommended a prospect, that guy most often became a good player in the NFL. Steve Neal, Connelly, Solder and Mankins are the famous examples, but guys like Ted Larsen, Rich Ohrnberger and even Donald Thomas were Dante's production. He knew talent and how to coach it up. 
Click to expand...
 
I don't disagree with the sentiment, but also remember that we have no idea if that's really a skill of his or not..  There are some reported examples of what you suggest above, but we have no idea how many others there were that didn't get reported; you would not expect anyone on the Pats to share "Dante thinks Cannon can never play" or something like that.
 
PedroKsBambino

PedroKsBambino

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 17, 2003
31,335
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
 
Yeah, odd how Bedard thinks that all the busts were BB's idea over Cesario's. But I'm suuuuuure that's never the opposite, no sirree.
 
Bedard knows nothing.
Click to expand...
 
I think I'd conclude from the example quoted that Bedard's source may well be in or associated with the scouting department.  Which doesn't mean it's wrong or untrue necessarily, but certainly creates the possibility there is an agenda too.

Anyone who followed the Sox in the 2005-12 timeframe should remember all too well that most departments within an organization leak and often leak contrary or conflicting things.
 
dcmissle

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
PedroKsBambino said:
 
I think I'd conclude from the example quoted that Bedard's source may well be in or associated with the scouting department.  Which doesn't mean it's wrong or untrue necessarily, but certainly creates the possibility there is an agenda too.
Anyone who followed the Sox in the 2005-12 timeframe should remember all too well that most departments within an organization leak and often leak contrary or conflicting things.
Click to expand...
 
Typically not a good career move.  Cannot find more polar opposites in this respect than the Pats and pre-13 Red Sox.
 
The only thing along these lines that I recall seeing (since 2000) was in Mike Holley's books and published well after the fact of the internal differences in view. 
 
This is Redskinsesque and I hope the Pats can avoid it.
 
Shelterdog

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
Mystic Merlin said:
I wouldn't say that, but he's pretty shamelessly pushing a perspective on BB, without actually coming out and saying it.
 
For all we know, Caserio wanted to avoid Gronk, convinced BB to overlook Hernandez's baggage, advised against Solder, etc.  I have a strong inkling that Bedard's source for all of these examples of Nick Caserio being overruled by BB, to disastrous results, is Nick Caserio.
Click to expand...
 
Two more problems with the article.
 
First I'm not sure it's been reported that BB overruled scouts on a lot of thsoe guys. If I remember Holley's reporting on it Daboll didn't want Chad Jackson but I never saw the scouting department say they didn't like him.  Maroney got a strong recommendation from McDaniels and his brother but I'm not sure the scouting department had a preference.  I'd believe that BB overruled the scouting department on Cunningham but I've never seen that before.  I've heard that the scouting department had problems with Dowling based on his injury history but I'm not sure whether that's even their call or if that's the medical department's call. He's casually dropping a ton of information.
 
Second there's a huge difference between overuling a scout and overruling Pioli/Caserio.  Joe Blow the Rutgers scout might not have liked Harmon but if Caserio did like Harmon then it's not really BB overruling the GM; it's BB overruling some random scout.
 
lexrageorge

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
18,188
Pxer said:
I think Caserio would be a big loss. Pay the man.
Click to expand...
It probably has zilch to do with money.  He may just want the chance to be a final authority on personnel matters.  Sometimes it's better to take the interviews when the come, because they don't always come. 
 
bankshot1

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,761
where I was last at
If Caserio get the Miami GM job, where might he recruit his lieutenants from?
 
There may be more news out of Foxboro of guys trading boots for flip-flops. 
 
S

Soxy

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2008
6,095
I don't think this is a good development, but I'm having a hard time getting real upset about it.  It's hard to tell where Belichick's input/opinion ends and Caserio's begins.  Do we even have a way of knowing?  It's not like we can say, "Decisions X, Y, and Z are on BB, and Decisions A, B, and C are on Caserio."
 
pjr

pjr

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
780
Quincy,MA
Doug Kyed‏@DougKyedNESN 42m
Reports indicated that Caserio would have to share power with Joe Philbin and Dawn Aponte in Miami. Why do that when you're sharing in NE?
 
SeoulSoxFan

SeoulSoxFan

I Want to Hit the World with Rocket Punch
Moderator
SoSH Member
Jun 27, 2006
22,102
A Scud Away from Hell
pjr said:
Doug Kyed‏@DougKyedNESN 42m
Reports indicated that Caserio would have to share power with Joe Philbin and Dawn Aponte in Miami. Why do that when you're sharing in NE?
Click to expand...
 
KC Joyner chimes in:
 

KC Joyner @KCJoynerTFS: Sad the Fins have fallen this far - MT @JamesWalkerNFL This isn't a media creation. Legit candidates are running away from Miami GM job.
Click to expand...
 

I have to agree. For Miami it doesn't look good. Between the Browns HC job and the Miami GM job, it's hard to tell which was more toxic (although having 2 interviews isn't exactly "running away" from the job).
 
soxfan121

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
Soxy Brown said:
I don't think this is a good development, but I'm having a hard time getting real upset about it.  It's hard to tell where Belichick's input/opinion ends and Caserio's begins.  Do we even have a way of knowing?  It's not like we can say, "Decisions X, Y, and Z are on BB, and Decisions A, B, and C are on Caserio."
Click to expand...
 
Agreed. About all we can say is that Pioli's last few drafts sucked (hard) and since Caserio took over, there have been much better results. 
 
Tony C

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,710
soxfan121 said:
 
Agreed. About all we can say is that Pioli's last few drafts sucked (hard) and since Caserio took over, there have been much better results. 
Click to expand...
 
exactly. who knows, we just have correlations...but i'm glad to keep the guy with good correlations.
 
PaulinMyrBch

PaulinMyrBch

Don't touch his dog food
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2003
8,316
MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
This sheds some light on the Aponte angle. 
 
Had he taken it he shares personnel decisions with Philbin and administrative with Aponte. Taking a piss is probably the only decision he gets to make on his own. And, you've still got Ross who could probably shake up the entire internal reporting structure based on what the Martin investigation turns up what his advisory council recommends. Why walk in to a ticking time bomb? The only plus appears to be the weather.
 
soxhop411

soxhop411

news aggravator
SoSH Member
Dec 4, 2009
46,477
This is interesting...
Alex Marvez ‏@alexmarvez2h
Spoke to source who believes Nick Caserio will bring great scouting report of @MiamiDolphins 2014 personnel plans 2 Bill Belichick @patriots
 
Alex Marvez ‏@alexmarvez2h
Such info includes how much #Dolphins willing 2 spend in free agency & other related matters. Downside 2 interviewing w/rival who stays put
 
ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk2h
So, basically, Nick Caserio was Michael Scott and the Dolphins were Prince Paper Company?
 
 
 
The New England Patriots typically have the upper hand over the Miami Dolphins, but in 2014, the Patriots will have some extra information to work with. Patriots director of player personnel Nick Caserio will bring New England a “great scouting report of the Dolphins’ 2014 personnel plan” after interviewing in Miami on Friday and Saturday, according to Alex Marvez of FOXSports1. Caserio possibly learned how much the Dolphins are willing to spend in free agency and “other related matters,” according to Marvez. Caserio reports directly to Patriots head coach/general manager Bill Belichick. Caserio had previously turned down interviews for open general manager positions. That he interviewed for the Dolphins job came as a bit of a surprise. Caserio could get a bump in title and pay after turning down the Dolphins’ job. Scott Pioli previously held the title “VP of player personnel” in New England before he left to be the Kansas City Chiefs’ general manager. A raise would likely come with the new title for Caserio.

Read more at: http://nesn.com/2014/01/report-patriots-exec-nick-caserio-to-bring-back-dolphins-offseason-plan 
Click to expand...
 
Morning Woodhead

Morning Woodhead

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 16, 2011
967
soxhop411 said:
This is interesting...
Alex Marvez ‏@alexmarvez2h
Spoke to source who believes Nick Caserio will bring great scouting report of @MiamiDolphins 2014 personnel plans 2 Bill Belichick @patriots
 
Alex Marvez ‏@alexmarvez2h
Such info includes how much #Dolphins willing 2 spend in free agency & other related matters. Downside 2 interviewing w/rival who stays put
 
ProFootballTalk ‏@ProFootballTalk2h
So, basically, Nick Caserio was Michael Scott and the Dolphins were Prince Paper Company?
 
Click to expand...
 
Maybe this is all true (I kind of hope it is) but this is typical B.S. that only happens with the Patriots.  Dolphins have interviewed about 20 candidates for this job, and you only here "he's a spy!!!!!" when the Pats employee interviews. 
 
E5 Yaz

E5 Yaz

polka king
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Apr 25, 2002
90,505
Oregon
You guys are missing the bigger point. This was a plan!!! It's Spygate 2 ... only with a real spy!
 
Reverend

Reverend

for king and country
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jan 20, 2007
64,448
I mean, they know what the salary cap is so the free agency thing seems stupid--are the Dolphins known for frequently being below cap?
 
Would knowing the Dolphins budget for non-player matters really even be a competitive advantage? I mean, Caserio also knows what they serve job candidates for lunch too; why not write that up as well?
 
PaulinMyrBch

PaulinMyrBch

Don't touch his dog food
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 10, 2003
8,316
MYRTLE BEACH!!!!
Obviously anyone taking the job is going to ask a broad range of "position authority" related questions.  Does the position come with the power to do various things other GM's in the league do?  For instance do I have the power to fire the coach?  Do I have the power to be the final decision in the war room? Etc. The GM position varies greatly from team to team.  All you have to do is compare Dallas to anyone to see that. I doubt as a condition to the job, NC was going to fire Philbin as the first order of business. 
 
I'm guessing its very easy to leak or misrepresent a story where the issue is generic to the job, "can the GM fire the coach" and it gets written as "NC wants to fire JP".  All it would take is for someone on the inside to say, "one of the main sticking points was he wants to be able to fire the Philbin", when really all he wants to know is does he have the authority to do it and may not ever decide to do so.
 
I don't think anyone would want a GM title only job. If you're going in as a GM, you'd want some normal GM authority. I wouldn't want to be the bitch/Philbin sandwich.
 
jsinger121

jsinger121

@jsinger121
SoSH Member
Jul 25, 2005
17,682
Nice to see the Patriots actually get some real coaches other than promoting some of the low level bums on our current staff.
 
D

Dan to Theo to Ben

Banned
Dec 10, 2012
6,943
RedOctober3829 said:
 
He coached Chris Long in STL and Jared Allen in Minnesota.  His DL's have consistently put up good sack numbers.  Excited about this hire.
Click to expand...
Rushing D too. Vikings led the NFL in rushing defense, 3 straight years, NFL first, 2006-2008, the same three years that he was there.
 
Shelterdog

Shelterdog

Well-Known Member
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Feb 19, 2002
15,375
New York City
jsinger121 said:
Nice to see the Patriots actually get some real coaches other than promoting some of the low level bums on our current staff.
Click to expand...
 
Yeah, the coaching quality in NE has clearly sucked over the past decade.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom