Offseason rumors

[nvalvo]

Can we please stop with this? Please. The payroll is 204 right now. 10% lower than last year:

This notion the Red Sox can’t sign guys because they won’t come here is ridiculous. Not with how soft this market is right now.

It’s unbelievable to me the length people are going to disallow the notion ownership simple doesn’t want to pay more.

I think this will be a lot clearer after Montgomery’s disposition, one way or the other.

If Breslow said at the beginning of the offseason that he wanted to add two SP and a middle infielder and get more right-handed in the lineup, and we end up with two new SP and a middle infielder, and swap Verdugo for O’Neill to get more right-handed, I admit that I will feel a bit dismissive about the sturm und drang we’ve gone through after every single FA signing anywhere.

If we *don’t* add a second SP, that would be different. But that outcome is yet to be seen.

 

[Tony Pena's Gas Cloud]

Can we please stop with this? Please. The payroll is 204 right now. 10% lower than last year:

This notion the Red Sox can’t sign guys because they won’t come here is ridiculous. Not with how soft this market is right now.

It’s unbelievable to me the length people are going to disallow the notion ownership simple doesn’t want to pay more.

Then why have none of the other 29 teams signed him in such a "soft" market?

Shitty weather, high taxes, racist history, antiquated facilities, trolling media, unrealistic fans, oddly dimensioned park that favors hitters, record-setting awful defense last year. Nope, no reason at all that starting pitchers should give any pause to spending the back nine of their careers in Boston.

 

[Timmah1]

Then why have none of the other 29 teams signed him in such a "soft" market?

Shitty weather, high taxes, racist history, antiquated facilities, trolling media, unrealistic fans, oddly dimensioned park that favors hitters, record-setting awful defense last year. Nope, no reason at all that starting pitchers should give any pause to spending the back nine of their careers in Boston.

I agree with most of what you're saying, but if you want to play the R card, the other places he's expected to land have a much worse history than Boston does.

 

[Big Papi's Mango Salsa]

Shitty weather, high taxes, racist history, antiquated facilities, trolling media, unrealistic fans, oddly dimensioned park that favors hitters, record-setting awful defense last year. Nope, no reason at all that starting pitchers should give any pause to spending the back nine of their careers in Boston.

I tend to agree that at this point Boston needs to overpay to get people to come here (as in if someone were getting roughly equal offers in places like LAD, NYY, Phi, ChC, etc) if nothing else you'd be more likely to pick a place that you're going to win, and Boston really hasn't been that place in a few years.

Doesn't mean that I think players (generally speaking) won't come to Boston. It just has to be the best offer - and probably by a decent amount - at least if the other markets are those mentioned above or similar.

Just to use Montgomery as an example, if somewhere like Phi or Texas were offering him 5/$125m, Boston would probably need to be offering 5/$140m or some such - possibly more vis a vis Texas because they don't have state income taxes, so maybe that becomes more like 5/$150m.

 

[Archer1979]

I've said this before about Boras, he needs the Sox to be involved in order for the market to remain high, thus the "leaks".

There aren't too many teams left that are willing to pay the price that is being asked. That no one has been willing to spend the asking price tends to spell out that the market s, by definition, lower. Boras knows what he's doing when that happens. This is where the "mystery" team starts to come into play so teams can start bidding against themselves... except there aren't enough teams in the pool to conjure the "mystery" team out of thin air.

 

[Snoop Soxy Dogg]

The Red Sox are playing this exactly right, in my opinion. You set a (presumably reasonable) value for the player and you stick to it. If he takes it, great. If he doesn’t, you wish him well and move on to a plan B, whatever it is. Boras’s approach is to wait, get fans to panic, and whip up the press and fan base with targeted leaks, enough that teams end up making decisions against their best interests. He’s been excellent at it, as one can see from the sheer panic permeating parts of this thread.

But the Sox must hold, get their price or move on. Somebody once said that if, as a GM, you make ball club decisions listening to fans, pretty soon you’re going to be sitting in the stands with them.

 

[chrisfont9]

I've said this before about Boras, he needs the Sox to be involved in order for the market to remain high, thus the "leaks".

There aren't too many teams left that are willing to pay the price that is being asked. That no one has been willing to spend the asking price tends to spell out that the market s, by definition, lower. Boras knows what he's doing when that happens. This is where the "mystery" team starts to come into play so teams can start bidding against themselves... except there aren't enough teams in the pool to conjure the "mystery" team out of thin air.

It's his product. If you google "largest mlb contracts" you get this list. Of the top ten total value contracts, only two are SPs, Gerrit Cole and Yoshinobu Yamamoto. That's one outlier (and slightly cautionary tale? not everyone loves Cole) and one complete mystery so far. But if you only look at AAV, you get 7 SPs in the top ten. [In both cases I am not counting Otani as a pitcher, since right now he isn't one, but he's on both lists, so use that data point as you wish.] Three of the 7 SPs took deals of 2-3 years (Scherzer, Verlander, Bauer). Four of them are more like position player deals, 5, 6, 7 and 9 years. Cole is the 9, which is in progress and looking OK. Greinke's 6 year deal wasn't awful, though the DBacks were probably pretty psyched to get off that when they did. De Grom is two seasons into that five year deal and healing his UCL. Strasburg was the 7 year deal, which is a candidate for worst free agent contract ever (negative bWAR).

Taken together, it's reasonable to view the top of the SP market as a complete minefield outside of shorter deals, and apparently most or all teams subscribe to that view. So when we say "Henry should just spend the money on Montgomery," it's a fair comment in the 2-3 year range but probably not if Monty wants much more than that.

 

[Bibsley]

Snell is a bad fit. If we'd wanted that Cy Young–upside, catastrophic-downside profile, we would have kept Chris Sale and found a different infielder.

But we actually have a ton of SP upside. We have a bunch of guys in their 20s with something about them that suggests they could — if they take another step forward — pop into front-of-rotation starters. If Houck can attenuate his times-through-the-order penalty, if Whitlock can hold up to a starter's workload, if Pivetta can keep the ball in the ballpark a touch more, if Bello can tweak the slider and the four-seam location, if Giolito can fix his mechanical issues... there's actually a ton of upside. What we need is to raise the floor.

What Montgomery offers is a high floor, as high as any pitcher can really. In the four seasons since his TJS (one of which was only 60 games long), he's thrown 568 innings (169 IP/162 team games) of 3.67 FIP. That's... exactly what we need.

I don't disagree, but if we just needed an innings eater shouldn't be have just gone for someone like E-Rod at a fraction of the cost, and likely comparable value?

 

[simplicio]

I don't disagree, but if we just needed an innings eater wouldn't be have just gone for someone like E-Rod at a fraction of the cost, and likely comparable value?

E-Rod only has a single season in his career (2019) that you'd say is the product of an innings eater. His highest IP total over the last three years is the same as Montgomery's lowest.

 

[cantor44]

Then why have none of the other 29 teams signed him in such a "soft" market?

Shitty weather, high taxes, racist history, antiquated facilities, trolling media, unrealistic fans, oddly dimensioned park that favors hitters, record-setting awful defense last year. Nope, no reason at all that starting pitchers should give any pause to spending the back nine of their careers in Boston.

I mean ... really? This makes no sense. Why, then, have they ever been able to attract players, including pitchers? The organization has had great player after great player, and many of them talk about Boston being one of the best places in the country to play, with invested, knowledgable fans, and a playoff atmosphere every night.

 

[nvalvo]

I don't disagree, but if we just needed an innings eater shouldn't be have just gone for someone like E-Rod at a fraction of the cost, and likely comparable value?

I wouldn't have minded a reunion, but Rodriguez got 4/$80m with a vesting option for a fifth year; how much more than that are you imagining Montgomery signing for at this point? With the caveat that none of us knows the details of the budget, I think I'd prefer Montgomery at something like 5/$120m to Rodriguez at 4/$80m, but you're right that they are pretty similar pitchers.

If the numbers for Montgomery (Nola money) that were being thrown around earlier are still operative, that changes things.

 

[RobertsSteal]

Throttle Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/throttle
throttle
ˈthrä-tᵊl
VERB
throttled; throttling\ ˈthrät-liŋ , ˈthrä-tᵊl-iŋ \; throttles
to compress the throat of : choke, to kill by such action
to prevent or check expression or activity of : suppress

This post deserves a lot more love.

Well done, @Remagellan.

 

[zenax]

This post deserves a lot more love.

Well done, @Remagellan.

Throttle is also used as a noun:

1. A valve that regulates the flow of a fluid, such as the valve in an internal-combustion engine that controls the amount of vaporized fuel entering the cylinders.
2. A lever or pedal controlling such a valve.

So, if you press down on the gas pedal, the faster you go.

 

[chrisfont9]

I mean ... really? This makes no sense. Why, then, have they ever been able to attract players, including pitchers? The organization has had great player after great player, and many of them talk about Boston being one of the best places in the country to play, with invested, knowledgable fans, and a playoff atmosphere every night.

You can't really generalize about this stuff. I think with some players what you say is exactly right, because Boston is unique in its history, especially recently, and in the atmosphere. But if you don't connect with that -- and with most players having no connection to New England, this is often true -- then the negative stuff might scare you off, or at least drive up your price. It's safe to say that Black players are going to have their suspicions, fair or no, and you wonder if other teams play this up to discourage people signing with the Sox. Certainly pitchers have always needed a little extra convincing about playing in a "hitters' park," though nowadays pitchers understand the nuances of how Fenway does and doesn't aid hitters. It seems like with Japanese players, the Sox are at a significant disadvantage, presumably because most American cities all just feel really foreign to them, except NY and LA to some degree? But even that is a generalization that won't hold up all the time.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

Why, then, have they ever been able to attract players, including pitchers?

Money? I mean, sorry to be glib, but as an owner, Henry's really only twice signed a big-name SP - John Lackey and David Price. They both cost a lot of money! EDIT: I actually did completely forget about Matsuzaka, but he's another one who they spent big on.
Most of the other top pitchers in the Sox' employ in recent memory were traded for and then extended - Pedro, Beckett, Sale, Eovaldi, that other guy we don't like anymore - or were of the more modest 1-2 year deal variety. They also developed Lester and Buchholz in there.

 

[simplicio]

I wouldn't have minded a reunion, but Rodriguez got 4/$80m with a vesting option for a fifth year; how much more than that are you imagining Montgomery signing for at this point? With the caveat that none of us knows the details of the budget, I think I'd prefer Montgomery at something like 5/$120m to Rodriguez at 4/$80m, but you're right that they are pretty similar pitchers.

If the numbers for Montgomery (Nola money) that were being thrown around earlier are still operative, that changes things.

As far as I know the only rumored price tag on Montgomery has been for more than Nola, and that was from an early January report that also pegged Snell's price at greater than $200m, which turned out to be significantly under-selling his 9/270 ask reported at the end of the month.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

Money? I mean, sorry to be glib, but as an owner, Henry's really only twice signed a big-name SP - John Lackey and David Price. They both cost a lot of money! EDIT: I actually did completely forget about Matsuzaka, but he's another one who they spent big on.
Most of the other top pitchers in the Sox' employ in recent memory were traded for and then extended - Pedro, Beckett, Sale, Eovaldi, that other guy we don't like anymore - or were of the more modest 1-2 year deal variety. They also developed Lester and Buchholz in there.

DiceK cost a lot of money, but he didn't really have much choice in the matter. He was arguably more like a draft pick than a free agent since his options were the Red Sox or going back to Japan. He's a much better example of the Sox using their financial advantages in ways that have since been taken away by new rules and processes. The posting process has changed, the draft process has changed, the international free agency rules have changed, etc.

But your overall point is still valid. This ownership has rarely ever spent big on pitching in the free agent market. They've paid pitchers high salaries for sure, but they were nearly all extensions (you could add Porcello to your list as well) after the player arrived and they had more first hand knowledge to work from (for better or worse).

 

[curly2]

It seems like with Japanese players, the Sox are at a significant disadvantage, presumably because most American cities all just feel really foreign to them, except NY and LA to some degree? But even that is a generalization that won't hold up all the time.

I don't think it holds up now, with Matsuzaka, Okajima, Uehara and Tazawa each being a valuable part of championship team, and Yoshida signing last year. I don't know how most of them felt about Boston, but Koji seemed to love it---and re-upped for two more years when his original deal was done.

 

[Yelling At Clouds]

But your overall point is still valid. This ownership has rarely ever spent big on pitching in the free agent market. They've paid pitchers high salaries for sure, but they were nearly all extensions (you could add Porcello to your list as well) after the player arrived and they had more first hand knowledge to work from (for better or worse).

Right, the change from previous years isn't that they didn't - or maybe "haven't yet" is more accurate! - sign(ed) Montgomery or whomever, it's that they didn't try to trade for a pitcher from a cost-conscious or rebuilding team. But in their semi-defense, a) it seems like it wasn't for lack of trying, and b) other than Burnes, none of those guys really got moved, in part because it seems like there really aren't that many teams who aren't "going for it" on some level - and pickings are slim from those teams (seems like it's Cease and... nobody?). So their best chance probably was - probably still is! - to try something like the Arraez-for-Lopez trade from last year, a "depth for depth" move.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

They were clearly trying to make a move like that- it just seems like the value for what the Sox had to offer wasn’t able to bring back what they were looking for. It really hard to trade for cost controlled SP when you don’t have pitching prospects to offer in return.

 

[Bibsley]

E-Rod only has a single season in his career (2019) that you'd say is the product of an innings eater. His highest IP total over the last three years is the same as Montgomery's lowest.

I like Montgomery, I very much hope that we get him, but E-Rod has been a reliable starter for the past 10 years, their careers are fairly comparable, even over the last three years, they are the same age: to me if ER is worth 4/80 today, in a Boras-free world JM is maybe worth a little more than that but my no means what Boras seems to be asking. e.g. I'd rather have had ER at 4/80 than JM for what seems to be the 6/150+ asking price.

 

[LogansDad]

They were clearly trying to make a move like that- it just seems like the value for what the Sox had to offer wasn’t able to bring back what they were looking for. It really hard to trade for cost controlled SP when you don’t have pitching prospects to offer in return.

I kind of think the reason nothing like this happened is because the Sox have three guys in Anthony, Teel and Mayer who they aren't going to move for anything other than an ace with term left. I think that is the right call, and there are very, very few pitchers who qualify for that right now that I think teams would be interested in moving.

Then, they don't really have that second level of prospect that could be a centerpiece in a deal for someone like Pablo Lopez, and they don't have the extra depth to move a guy who would be the equivalent of Arraez without creating a monster hole on the MLB roster.

They are in a tough spot when it comes to making moves for a pitcher. They just don't match up that well in a trade scenario for someone who would be a clear upgrade to what they already have. And all of the free agent pitchers (including to some extent Shohei and YY) have serious question marks when you start talking about long term contracts. And having been burned by that somewhat more than once in the last 15 years, I am not surprised they are being careful with long term deals for pitchers who aren't clear aces.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Oh, I agree…it would be interesting to know, though, why the team thought they were going to be able to trade for a cost-controlled SP, and why they ultimately couldn’t (at least so far). Was it a matter of what they had to deal not being valued as highly as they expected, not enough teams willing to deal, or likely a little bit of both?

 

[simplicio]

I like Montgomery, I very much hope that we get him, but E-Rod has been a reliable starter for the past 10 years, their careers are fairly comparable, even over the last three years, they are the same age: to me if ER is worth 4/80 today, in a Boras-free world JM is maybe worth a little more than that but my no means what Boras seems to be asking. e.g. I'd rather have had ER at 4/80 than JM for what seems to be the 6/150+ asking price.

Those compared 3 year stats really aren't all that similar. Montgomery's made more starts, pitched more innings per start and pitched better in that time. He's simply been one of the most reliable starters in the game at a time when reliable starting pitching has been our single biggest deficit.

Does that mean he's worth what Boras is asking? Probably not, and I'm glad that they haven't caved given the insane asks that have been reported. But if the price drops to something remotely reasonable I do think he's worth WAY more than E-Rod. Those extra 25 innings he produces might seem like a small thing, but that could be the difference between Kaleb Ort (or the next version of him) taking the mound and not. Or 25 extra days of rest to spread around the bullpen and keep guys fresh. It's a cascading effect that goes far beyond WAR value.

 

[Jimbodandy]

I just can’t understand how TM can throw “embarrassing” in to the comment. He doesn’t add how much Boras might be looking for. He doesn’t offer an opinion on how much the Sox might pay. He doesn’t even try to offer how much JM might be worth in his opinion.

He does start by say $31m under threshold and ends with an inflammatory comment. He’s better than that post.

What we absolutely do know is NOBODY has been interested in what Boras is selling. It appears the Sox are correctly waiting.

Perhaps but that implies that the Sox don't have a greater need for starting pitching than the other suitors. A lot of people thought that we were nuts for what we paid Manny to sign him away from Cleveland, but our offense was basically Nomar and Carl Everett at the time, backing up the best pitcher on earth. Sometimes you have to spend more than the other teams for what you need.

 

[Auger34]

Then why have none of the other 29 teams signed him in such a "soft" market?

Shitty weather, high taxes, racist history, antiquated facilities, trolling media, unrealistic fans, oddly dimensioned park that favors hitters, record-setting awful defense last year. Nope, no reason at all that starting pitchers should give any pause to spending the back nine of their careers in Boston.

I am quoting this because posters responded to @cantor44’s post while clearly not reading this one.

Thus is a fucking nonsense post. How have the Red Sox signed anyone? How have any teams in the South signed anyone? How did Zach Eflim choose to sign with
The Rays (Florida, worst facilities in the world, less money) Because based off of this post you’re saying that Eflins either a racist or has trust that the rays will have the best defense ever

I mean come on dude, be better than this. I am not even sure what you’re arguing other than caping for ownershp.

 

[chrisfont9]

I don't think it holds up now, with Matsuzaka, Okajima, Uehara and Tazawa each being a valuable part of championship team, and Yoshida signing last year. I don't know how most of them felt about Boston, but Koji seemed to love it---and re-upped for two more years when his original deal was done.

A decade ago. The super talented kids coming over now won’t be influenced by these older retired guys. Yoshida of course can help make the case, although if they dump him unceremoniously as some people would like, then we are done as a destination for Japanese players.

 

[simplicio]

I am quoting this because posters responded to @cantor44’s post while clearly not reading this one.

Thus is a fucking nonsense post. How have the Red Sox signed anyone? How have any teams in the South signed anyone? How did Zach Eflim choose to sign with
The Rays (Florida, worst facilities in the world, less money) Because based off of this post you’re saying that Eflins either a racist or has trust that the rays will have the best defense ever

I mean come on dude, be better than this. I am not even sure what you’re arguing other than caping for ownershp.

I'm not sure why you're using Eflin as an example here, when he specifically used the Red Sox offer to get more from the Rays because he wanted to play for his hometown team.

 

[Jimbodandy]

A decade ago. The super talented kids coming over now won’t be influenced by these older retired guys. Yoshida of course can help make the case, although if they dump him unceremoniously as some people would like, then we are done as a destination for Japanese players.

Why do we keep posting that Japanese players only want to do this or do that? After we missed out on Yamamoto, folks were posting here like being on the west coast was some definitive factor and that we never had a chance. We signed Yoshida a year ago, because we paid the most money. We signed Matsuzaka because we paid the most money. It's probably a fair guess that our best offers to Yamamoto and Imanaga were lower than what they got.

I don't expect Matsuzaka or Hideo Nomo to sell Japanese free agents on the Red Sox. That's the checkbook's job.

 

[simplicio]

The Phillies offered Yamamoto more money than anyone, and how did that work out?

 

[Auger34]

I'm not sure why you're using Eflin as an example here, when he specifically used the Red Sox offer to get more from the Rays because he wanted to play for his hometown team.

Am I going crazy here?

The post I am responding to specifically mentioned “racist history” and “outdated facilities”.

If that’s the criteria I don’t give a fuck where your family Grew up, you’re just not signing with the Rays.

For a board that is clearly very intelligent, I really wonder about the reading comprehension a lot of the time

 

[simplicio]

TPGC's post was quite clearly a list of multiple reasons any given player (pitchers especially) might prefer someplace other than Boston; they made no claim that all those reasons applied to every candidate. Not sure why you'd read it that way.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

TPGC's post was quite clearly a list of multiple reasons any given player (pitchers especially) might prefer someplace other than Boston; they made no claim that all those reasons applied to every candidate. Not sure why you'd read it that way.

Have any of those reasons been cited by players who have not chosen Boston lately? The only explanations I have seen have been based on the Sox offers not measuring up, money wise.

 

[simplicio]

Do pro athletes in any sport typically publicly announce that they don't want to go to a particular city cause it's racist or harder to perform in?

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Do pro athletes in any sport typically publicly announce that they don't want to go to a particular city cause it's racist or harder to perform in?

I dunno, but are we just going to make up reasons why the Sox haven’t signed guys to absolve the org of any responsibility? Is Boston more racist or are the taxes and weather different than when they were signing guys?

They haven’t signed players they wanted to sign because they haven’t offered the most money, it’s not that complicated .

 

[BigSoxFan]

I dunno, but are we just going to make up reasons why the Sox haven’t signed guys to absolve the org of any responsibility? Is Boston more racist or are the taxes and weather different than when they were signing guys?

They haven’t signed players they wanted to sign because they haven’t offered the most money, it’s not that complicated .

I think people need to flip this around. Why do we think Giolito signed here? He just wanted good access to the North End restaurants or maybe, just maybe, the Red Sox offered the most favorable financial package? Money tends to the rule the day in FA. Not always…but most of the time.

Like you said, this isn’t that complicated.

 

[HangingW/ScottCooper]

The Red Sox are playing this exactly right, in my opinion. You set a (presumably reasonable) value for the player and you stick to it. If he takes it, great. If he doesn’t, you wish him well and move on to a plan B, whatever it is. Boras’s approach is to wait, get fans to panic, and whip up the press and fan base with targeted leaks, enough that teams end up making decisions against their best interests. He’s been excellent at it, as one can see from the sheer panic permeating parts of this thread.

But the Sox must hold, get their price or move on. Somebody once said that if, as a GM, you make ball club decisions listening to fans, pretty soon you’re going to be sitting in the stands with them.

Andrew Friedman: "If you're always rational about every free agent, you will finish third on every free agent."

I'm not saying that Jordan Montgomery is a guy to go all in on, but they've been conservative for 5 years.

 

[Tony Pena's Gas Cloud]

I mean ... really? This makes no sense. Why, then, have they ever been able to attract players, including pitchers? The organization has had great player after great player, and many of them talk about Boston being one of the best places in the country to play, with invested, knowledgable fans, and a playoff atmosphere every night.

I was referring to pitchers, not position players. Name a premium pitcher who signed in Boston for less than premium dollars for the atmosphere and great fans.

 

[CR67dream]

I think people need to flip this around. Why do we think Giolito signed here? He just wanted good access to the North End restaurants or maybe, just maybe, the Red Sox offered the most favorable financial package? Money tends to the rule the day in FA. Not always…but most of the time.

Like you said, this isn’t that complicated.

Giolito signed here because he got a pillow contract right out of the gate, in a place he is happy to be for at least a year. I think he left money on the table to get the shorter term deal, in effect betting on himself to command a better long term deal next year. It certainly wasn't simply about bottom line dollars in his case.

So yeah, it can be pretty complicated, and no two situations are exactly the same.

With Montgomery, and probably others, my thinking is that it's probably years and not bottom line dollars where the Sox might have their biggest concerns.

 

[Tony Pena's Gas Cloud]

I am quoting this because posters responded to @cantor44’s post while clearly not reading this one.

Thus is a fucking nonsense post. How have the Red Sox signed anyone? How have any teams in the South signed anyone? How did Zach Eflim choose to sign with
The Rays (Florida, worst facilities in the world, less money) Because based off of this post you’re saying that Eflins either a racist or has trust that the rays will have the best defense ever

I mean come on dude, be better than this. I am not even sure what you’re arguing other than caping for ownershp.

Eflin chose TB to play near his home. That was stated by several sources. I'm not sure where your vitriol is coming from and why you're accusing others of stupidity when you're the one who gave a shitty example.

 

[curly2]

I was referring to pitchers, not position players. Name a premium pitcher who signed in Boston for less than premium dollars for the atmosphere and great fans.

There aren't a ton of premium players who sign anywhere for less than premium dollars. People talk about how Yamamoto wanted to be a Dodger all along. He did, but he made sure they matched the top offer he got, from the Mets, which was higher than most people expected when he began talking to teams. There was no discount, just I'll take the top dollar at this place, not that one.

 

[Auger34]

Eflin chose TB to play near his home. That was stated by several sources. I'm not sure where your vitriol is coming from and why you're accusing others of stupidity when you're the one who gave a shitty example.

What did I miss from your original post? Educate me.

I quoted what you said and it’s not a shitty example. Were you being hyperbolic? Was there something missing? What did I have wrong?

 

[Tony Pena's Gas Cloud]

What did I miss from your original post? Educate me.

I quoted what you said and it’s not a shitty example. Were you being hyperbolic? Was there something missing? What did I have wrong?

My original post gave a breakdown of the Top 10 free agent starters this offseason. What you're referring to is a response to someone saying "why don't they just pay him?" in response to that. I gave a list of very valid reasons why a pitcher would NOT choose Boston if there were other offers. Read the entire thread. Again, I'm not sure why you're lashing out at members who are having a discussion.

 

[simplicio]

There aren't a ton of premium players who sign anywhere for less than premium dollars. People talk about how Yamamoto wanted to be a Dodger all along. He did, but he made sure they matched the top offer he got, from the Mets, which was higher than most people expected when he began talking to teams. There was no discount, just I'll take the top dollar at this place, not that one.

Again, the Mets offer wasn't the top one, he left money on the table not going to Philly.
View: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10110026-mlb-rumors-yoshinobu-yamamoto-received-325m-phillies-contract-before-dodgers-deal

 

[Snoop Soxy Dogg]

Andrew Friedman: "If you're always rational about every free agent, you will finish third on every free agent."

I'm not saying that Jordan Montgomery is a guy to go all in on, but they've been conservative for 5 years.

That’s easy for Friedman to say - the GM who has a seemingly unlimited budget. If I were a GM -with a budget-, I don’t think I’d use the dodgers as a template for what is or isn’t rational in free agency.

And really, being rational is not about being rational on every free agent. I think it’s about, from time to time, being able to identify those for whom you can stretch out of your comfort zone and pay whatever it takes to get them.

I don’t think Montgomery is one of those, regardless of what Boras says. I’d want him – but at my price.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Giolito signed here because he got a pillow contract right out of the gate, in a place he is happy to be for at least a year. I think he left money on the table to get the shorter term deal, in effect betting on himself to command a better long term deal next year. It certainly wasn't simply about bottom line dollars in his case.

So yeah, it can be pretty complicated, and no two situations are exactly the same.

With Montgomery, and probably others, my thinking is that it's probably years and not bottom line dollars where the Sox might have their biggest concerns.

If Giolito were intent on betting on himself, then I’d be willing to bet that he got the best offer from the Red Sox and that’s why he chose us. So, I don’t think it is complicated in this case. Most people in FA choose with their wallets.

 

[Auger34]

My original post gave a breakdown of the Top 10 free agent starters this offseason. What you're referring to is a response to someone saying "why don't they just pay him?" in response to that. I gave a list of very valid reasons why a pitcher would NOT choose Boston if there were other offers. Read the entire thread. Again, I'm not sure why you're lashing out at members who are having a discussion.

I’m not lashing out. You just repeated what I thought I read and I still strongly disagree.

Your original post was filled with inaccuracies to prove the point you wanted to make. And they weren’t very valid reasons. The reasons you provided are like a forced hostage video of negativity.

 

[Tony Pena's Gas Cloud]

I’m not lashing out. You just repeated what I thought I read and I still strongly disagree.

Your original post was filled with inaccuracies to prove the point you wanted to make. And they weren’t very valid reasons. The reasons you provided are like a forced hostage video of negativity.

What was inaccurate?

 

[JCizzle]

What was inaccurate?

I mean, you have no idea of knowing if YY would have chosen the Dodgers over the Red Sox if we threw $400M at him. Certainly not with anymore certainty than the board at large knows what the Sox's true internal salary cap is.

Beyond that, yeah Imanaga is imperfect, but isn't that basically every player if you look closely enough? I'm not sure what your point was with that one.

 

[GB5]

Regarding Montgomery, one thing that would be difficult is, if we take some of what has been reported about the Sox at face value, more specifically, the need to clear payroll before going in on Montgomery, I wonder if the lat injury to Jansen is making him essentially untraceable in his current form and could mess up the Sox timeline for Montgomery.