Offseason Rumors/News

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Auger34

used to be tbb
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Apr 23, 2010
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I don’t know if anyones seen Draymond’s latest comments but they really drive home that the guy doesn’t get it. I don’t know if he’s changing his tune in public but if what he’s saying publicly is what he is saying privately then it’s shocking they didn’t suspend him
 

Reverend

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the moops

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As many predicted his fall is going to mirror that of Iverson due to his inability to recreate himself once the elite athleticism turns into ordinary league athleticism.
He still seems to have pretty incredible athleticism. He has just completely forgotten how to shoot and refuses to play off ball
 

Kliq

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Mar 31, 2013
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Hey guys, it's me, Kliq, SOSH's resident Russell Westbrook defender.

Westbrook is not a good fit on the Lakers; but I feel like he is going to be used as a scapegoat (again) for when this Lakers team doesn't work, and the implication being out there that if the Lakers could just get rid of Westbrook, they would become instant contenders. The Lakers team is flawed in multiple ways, not just that they have Westbrook.

Westbrook can't shoot, and as a guard that can't shoot it's hard to be effective in today's NBA. He's also an indifferent defender who is prone to mental mistakes, also in critical moments.

What I don't agree with is that Westbrook has somehow become a sub-NBA level player since being traded to the Lakers. We are only one season removed from dragging a weak Washington team into the playoffs. Westbrook is still capable of being a valuable NBA player; mind you probably not valuable to a team that wants to be a contender, but he's still a capable force at some level in the NBA.

Westbrook needs to be on a team with young athletes and shooters that want to run up and down the floor. There could not be a worse team than the Lakers, built around LeBron walking the ball up and picking apart a defense, and rounded out with other veterans of various stages of being washed. It's not just that Westbrook is a bad fit with LeBron...he's a bad fit even when LeBron isn't out there because of how the team was constructed. Put him on a team with young athletes that want to run; put him on Toronto or Cleveland or Denver and I think he'd provide some value. He would be a liability in crunch time, and probably couldn't be the focus of a team wanting to win playoff games, but I'd like to see him somewhere other than the "Stand-in-the-corner-and-hope-LeBron-passes-to-you" Lakers.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
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Hey guys, it's me, Kliq, SOSH's resident Russell Westbrook defender.

Westbrook is not a good fit on the Lakers; but I feel like he is going to be used as a scapegoat (again) for when this Lakers team doesn't work, and the implication being out there that if the Lakers could just get rid of Westbrook, they would become instant contenders. The Lakers team is flawed in multiple ways, not just that they have Westbrook.

Westbrook can't shoot, and as a guard that can't shoot it's hard to be effective in today's NBA. He's also an indifferent defender who is prone to mental mistakes, also in critical moments.

What I don't agree with is that Westbrook has somehow become a sub-NBA level player since being traded to the Lakers. We are only one season removed from dragging a weak Washington team into the playoffs. Westbrook is still capable of being a valuable NBA player; mind you probably not valuable to a team that wants to be a contender, but he's still a capable force at some level in the NBA.

Westbrook needs to be on a team with young athletes and shooters that want to run up and down the floor. There could not be a worse team than the Lakers, built around LeBron walking the ball up and picking apart a defense, and rounded out with other veterans of various stages of being washed. It's not just that Westbrook is a bad fit with LeBron...he's a bad fit even when LeBron isn't out there because of how the team was constructed. Put him on a team with young athletes that want to run; put him on Toronto or Cleveland or Denver and I think he'd provide some value. He would be a liability in crunch time, and probably couldn't be the focus of a team wanting to win playoff games, but I'd like to see him somewhere other than the "Stand-in-the-corner-and-hope-LeBron-passes-to-you" Lakers.
Thank you for this. I will now be giving 1 minute to @SamRayNot to provide a rebuttal. Please proceed, Sam :)
 

Sam Ray Not

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At your service, lol.

Honestly, I feel more sad for Russ than anything else at this point. He seems like a good dude. And I don’t really disagree with any of Kliq’s basketball points (even if I will always secretly remember his assertion that Russ was better than Steph at everything except shooting threes, along with every other Steph slight ever posted in this forum, haha).

Actually, in an alt universe where Dray and Poole were *both* sent off, Russ would be a pretty nice fit on a team with Steph, Klay, Wiggs, Loon, Donte, and the kids. I did actually ponder a Dray for Russ trade for a moment before dismissing it (beyond the hoops issues, the salaries don’t match). But I’m here for a three-way deal involving Dray to LA, Westbrook and picks to Indy, and Myles Turner and Juan Toscano-Anderson to SF…
 

PedroKsBambino

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Apr 17, 2003
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Hey guys, it's me, Kliq, SOSH's resident Russell Westbrook defender.

Westbrook is not a good fit on the Lakers; but I feel like he is going to be used as a scapegoat (again) for when this Lakers team doesn't work, and the implication being out there that if the Lakers could just get rid of Westbrook, they would become instant contenders. The Lakers team is flawed in multiple ways, not just that they have Westbrook.

Westbrook can't shoot, and as a guard that can't shoot it's hard to be effective in today's NBA. He's also an indifferent defender who is prone to mental mistakes, also in critical moments.

What I don't agree with is that Westbrook has somehow become a sub-NBA level player since being traded to the Lakers. We are only one season removed from dragging a weak Washington team into the playoffs. Westbrook is still capable of being a valuable NBA player; mind you probably not valuable to a team that wants to be a contender, but he's still a capable force at some level in the NBA.

Westbrook needs to be on a team with young athletes and shooters that want to run up and down the floor. There could not be a worse team than the Lakers, built around LeBron walking the ball up and picking apart a defense, and rounded out with other veterans of various stages of being washed. It's not just that Westbrook is a bad fit with LeBron...he's a bad fit even when LeBron isn't out there because of how the team was constructed. Put him on a team with young athletes that want to run; put him on Toronto or Cleveland or Denver and I think he'd provide some value. He would be a liability in crunch time, and probably couldn't be the focus of a team wanting to win playoff games, but I'd like to see him somewhere other than the "Stand-in-the-corner-and-hope-LeBron-passes-to-you" Lakers.
I agree with this, with the caveat that it is a little hard to describe a "good" NBA team which Westbrook can materially contribute to given his ball-dominance. But he remains a floor-raiser and there's plenty of bad teams who would benefit from him, and in the abstract he is still an above-average NBA player. He just is a very, very specific fit as well.
 

CreightonGubanich

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Dec 13, 2006
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I was always a Westbrook guy, but I'm not convinced that he's an above average NBA player at this point in his career. I do think he's lost a step or two athletically, and it's impacted his defense as much as his offense. It's hard to tell exactly, because for a player with his game and skillset, the line between good and unworthy of a roster spot is finer than you'd think. His game is predicated on making enough baskets on inefficient shot attempts that he's an overall net positive. When that specific skill leaves - the ability to convert low percentage looks at a high-enough percentage rate - there's just not much left. He can't shoot, his defense isn't a positive at this point, and even his ability to generate assists was based more on his inhuman ability to get past the first defender and collapse the defense at the rim, rather than being a great passer.

At this point, what team is he elevating? I'm not sure he's a great fit for a running team anymore, unless those players also happened to be great shooters. You can surround him with shooters and play five-out, I guess, but it's like the old Evan Turner problem: he's only valuable with the ball in his hands a ton, and he's not good enough to justify letting him have that high a usage rate. If he does, you're not going to be very good.
 

Tony C

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Apr 13, 2000
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....

Westbrook needs to be on a team with young athletes and shooters that want to run up and down the floor. There could not be a worse team than the Lakers, built around LeBron walking the ball up and picking apart a defense, and rounded out with other veterans of various stages of being washed. It's not just that Westbrook is a bad fit with LeBron...he's a bad fit even when LeBron isn't out there because of how the team was constructed. Put him on a team with young athletes that want to run; put him on Toronto or Cleveland or Denver and I think he'd provide some value. He would be a liability in crunch time, and probably couldn't be the focus of a team wanting to win playoff games, but I'd like to see him somewhere other than the "Stand-in-the-corner-and-hope-LeBron-passes-to-you" Lakers.
Supposedly RW will come off the bench in the last pre-season game. Will see if that carries through to the regular season. You're right that there is no team with whom he's a worse fit. With Lakers bench players I'm not sure there's the sort of athletes/shooters you mention RW needing, but this does seem like the best of bad options for the Lakers/RW.
 

Fishy1

Head Mason
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Nov 10, 2006
6,465
The below struck me as odd. They mention the fact Ime Udoka's fired and that Robert Williams was crucial to last year's success... but not the fact that Robert Williams is injured? And that how much he'll be affected post-injury is at least an open question?

Now let’s move over to the East, where Boston is the favorite — with a big caveat. RAPTOR does not contain a coaching adjustment, so there is no way for it to factor in the absence of Ime Udoka, who was suspended by the Celtics for a year after violating team policy by having an intimate relationship with a female member of the franchise’s staff. Udoka had a significant impact on Boston’s performance last season, particularly on defense, where his decision to turn Robert Williams III into a roving help defender transformed the team into one of the best defensive units in recent memory. It remains to be seen how interim coach Joe Mazzulla will fare in Udoka’s stead, but all RAPTOR can account for here is the quality of Boston’s roster, which was evident throughout last season and is even better now after the addition of Malcolm Brogdon.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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The below struck me as odd. They mention the fact Ime Udoka's fired and that Robert Williams was crucial to last year's success... but not the fact that Robert Williams is injured? And that how much he'll be affected post-injury is at least an open question?
TL is probably out until Jan. 1? I imagine 538s model takes into account his return.

The first half of the NBA regular season isn't all that important for Celtic title aspirations.

I have a feeling Mazzulla will be fine. Brad is really good at moving the chess pieces
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
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TL is probably out until Jan. 1? I imagine 538s model takes into account his return.

The first half of the NBA regular season isn't all that important for Celtic title aspirations.

I have a feeling Mazzulla will be fine. Brad is really good at moving the chess pieces
Agreed. The big issue with R Williams and the Celtics title aspirations is not whether he starts playing games on December 1st or January 1st or even February 1st. It's instead the health and agility of TL come April 1st.

Mazzulla's first test was the preseason, and by all accounts he passed.
 

TripleOT

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Jul 4, 2007
8,078
Who is less cooked, Favors, Cousins, Dwight Howard, Tristan Thompson, LaMarcus Aldridge?

Favors would be a better roster fit than Jackson or Layman.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Nov 17, 2010
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Per Kerr, Poole was the ultimate arbiter. He and Dray apparently got together and worked things out.
I'd say it wasn't worked out. And that Kerr left the 23 year old kid holding the bag for the actions of a 32 year old.

Let's be clear - they're both adults. But think about who you were at both of those ages, and explain to me why the 23 year old potential future of the team is the one who is forced to "get over" being assaulted by a teammate.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Who is less cooked, Favors, Cousins, Dwight Howard, Tristan Thompson, LaMarcus Aldridge?

Favors would be a better roster fit than Jackson or Layman.
Agreed, I'd rather have Favors than Blake Griffin. But I suspect they worry about the lack of passing chops
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Sep 10, 2017
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No link since it was just an ESPN alert on my phone, but Poole is getting the bag! Preliminary report is 4 years $140 million which is only $4 mil short of the max restricted deal he could sign with another team next season. Thanks Draymond?
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
11,060
Hey guys, it's me, Kliq, SOSH's resident Russell Westbrook defender.

Westbrook is not a good fit on the Lakers; but I feel like he is going to be used as a scapegoat (again) for when this Lakers team doesn't work, and the implication being out there that if the Lakers could just get rid of Westbrook, they would become instant contenders. The Lakers team is flawed in multiple ways, not just that they have Westbrook.

Westbrook can't shoot, and as a guard that can't shoot it's hard to be effective in today's NBA. He's also an indifferent defender who is prone to mental mistakes, also in critical moments.

What I don't agree with is that Westbrook has somehow become a sub-NBA level player since being traded to the Lakers. We are only one season removed from dragging a weak Washington team into the playoffs. Westbrook is still capable of being a valuable NBA player; mind you probably not valuable to a team that wants to be a contender, but he's still a capable force at some level in the NBA.

Westbrook needs to be on a team with young athletes and shooters that want to run up and down the floor. There could not be a worse team than the Lakers, built around LeBron walking the ball up and picking apart a defense, and rounded out with other veterans of various stages of being washed. It's not just that Westbrook is a bad fit with LeBron...he's a bad fit even when LeBron isn't out there because of how the team was constructed. Put him on a team with young athletes that want to run; put him on Toronto or Cleveland or Denver and I think he'd provide some value. He would be a liability in crunch time, and probably couldn't be the focus of a team wanting to win playoff games, but I'd like to see him somewhere other than the "Stand-in-the-corner-and-hope-LeBron-passes-to-you" Lakers.
I don’t think there’s an implication that if you just take Westbrook off the roster that the Lakers are title contenders at all. I think people are saying if they can trade him (and picks) for a package like Turner and Hield then they are a much better team. Or if they never made the Westbrook trade in the first place they would be in a better position.

He’s just not a winning player at this point and seems to refuse to acknowledge that or adapt in any way at all. It’s been written multiple times but his personality is his biggest gift and his biggest curse. Refusing to listen to anyone and thinking he’s the best guy on the floor no matter what probably helped get him to the heights he reached as a player….it’s also why no one wants him now unless they’re heavily incentivized to take him
 

Sam Ray Not

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Geez, Lacob…

View: https://mobile.twitter.com/wojespn/status/1581395279755943936

Seems like a pretty great deal for the age 27-30 seasons of a guy who (1) was the NBA champs’ second best player in their playoff run; (2) guarded Luka and Tatum better than all but probably 5-6 players in the league can; and (3) may be a top 4-5 guy in the league in terms of durability/availability (knocking wood).

Gotta think Dray’s gone next season (or sooner) unless he’s willing to tear up his option year and sign a super cheap contract, or unless Lacob is cool going up near $500M (edit: $483M, thanks Bobby Marks / Jon Abbey) for next year’s team. And I’d guess the season after that, Klay will either take massively team-friendly discount or move on.
 
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Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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Who is less cooked, Favors, Cousins, Dwight Howard, Tristan Thompson, LaMarcus Aldridge?

Favors would be a better roster fit than Jackson or Layman.
Favors might be the most washed of the group, not sure he has a single NBA level skill anymore, and he's got recurring back issues. Layman might not be a perfect fit, but he's both younger and better at this point. And since the 15th spot is probably just a body for half the season then cut, the cheaper guy with (very limited) upside is who you take.
 

InstaFace

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Sep 27, 2016
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This is awful, he’s Kabengele’s uncle too.
Who wants to section Mutombo?

Probably the world's greatest brain surgeons, I'd wager.

This ESPN article has more on it now. But aside from him being only 56 and brain tumors generally not leading to great prognoses, Mutombo has done and funded so much humanitarian work, and founded the first pan-African basketball league that will probably bring a lot more investment in the game there. There aren't a whole lot of sports legends who deserve lots more time on this earth more than Dikembe Mutombo.
 

nattysez

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Sep 30, 2010
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Gotta think Dray’s gone next season (or sooner) unless he’s willing to tear up his option year and sign a super cheap contract, or unless Lacob is cool going up near $500M (edit: $483M, thanks Bobby Marks / Jon Abbey) for next year’s team. And I’d guess the season after that, Klay will either take massively team-friendly discount or move on.
The benefit of this is that Draymond knows he's going to have to play his ass off AND get along with everyone if he wants to be able to convince another team to sign him next year. But there's still a risk that if things aren't going well at any point, he may claim he's been disrespected and melt down. Could go either way.

Klay seems to truly love the Bay Area and has made $180m in his career. And I'll bet his shoe contract is massive. I could see him taking a sweetheart deal to stay, especially after he was paid in full for two seasons of rehab.

Wiggins taking a pay cut is a little surprising to me, but it seems like he values the culture fit.
 
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Sox Puppet

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Dec 7, 2016
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Poole getting more of a bag than Wiggins is interesting. Not that he doesn't deserve it, but I wonder how much of a "tax" GSW had to add on to keep him happy as a result of the punch.
 

nattysez

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I haven't watched a lot of Warriors basketball, but Wiggins certainly seemed the better player in the finals.
Both guys took discounts, so I suspect this was based on feelings and fairness as much as on-court considerations. Wiggins took a slightly bigger discount, likely because he's already made $139m in salary alone thus far in his career. This is Poole's first big contract, so it made sense for him to get a big bag.
 
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