NFL Officiating: Zebras gone wild

[johnmd20]

I'm not sure there's a guy on this board who is more critical of refs than you. I can't actually know how much you care. But you use all sort of pretty absolute adjectives. "Unacceptable," and stuff like that. So it seems to be important to you.

I'm also not sure there's a guy more active than you on game threads. It's not like I'm following you around, but I doubt you miss too many games. Probably up there with luckiest.

None of this is to say that you're wrong and that reffing can't get better, but I do think it is a small anecdote to prove my point that there's not much incentive to fix anything. They got a little queasy when a blown PI call fucked a championship, but they got through it. Officiating is bad, but engagement is very very high.

I'm not saying that the NFL and fans wouldn't prefer that it be better. I don't think they would deliberately fuck up officiating to generate buzz. (Though with these fuckers, I'm not 100 percent sure.) But they are fantastic at making chicken salad out of chicken shit, and they have done a great job at keeping officiating from being a problem that affects the bottom line, and in fact they have indeed found ways to turn officiating controversies into buzz. We're all talking about them and we're all still watching to see what they will fuck up next. And for every bad call, there's someone who is happy -- because they root for the other team, need a turnover for their fantasy wide receiver to have a chance, or took the under.

And, my main point got lost -- we live in a world where television definition is better than human perception. There may be things around that margins that could make it better, but by and large we are all going to need to learn to live with blown calls. Expanded replay may help, or it may make things worse, or it may be marginally better. Same with evaluation. Same with maybe clarifying rules to be more objective. But I think we've learned that sometimes you think you're taking two steps forward only to learn you took three steps back. We need to learn to live with bad calls, because they are going to keep happening. No matter what adjectives that we use for them. There's no magic in football to make it better. At least in baseball you know that robot umps would be better, but there's nothing that obvious in football. And my real point is this: We already have accepted that this is the way that is, if not consciously then subconsciously. It's not going to change unless there is some big technology breakthrough. Same with, by the way, concussions (just to take another example). It is what it is for the foreseeable future. Some of the hand-wringing is, unfortunately, theater.

I have been critical because the refs stink and it's fucking with the games and the results. It started last playoffs when the Chiefs were just handed every call against Cinncy.(including an extra play) And then against Philly the calls were dubious, at best.

Since then, I've been more focused on the calls and because of Google Sunday Ticket, I can see every game on Sundays. The reffing is abysmal. Maybe humans can't perceive things but it's worse than that. The refs mess up everything. They make calls that aren't there. They don't make calls that are obvious. They make a call on one play and then the same play happens and they don't call it. They call a guy out of bounds who never came close to the sideline. And then call a guy who was out in. Over and over.

This seems more like inconsistency and incompetence than an inability to perceive speed. The NFL needs to actually hire refs full time.

 

[soxhop411]

What do you make of 70 lining up as an ineligible receiver? That was a cleverly designed and precisely executed play. The Lions didn’t want to deceive the officials, they wanted to deceive Dallas. They NEEDED the officials to know what they were doing.

I refuse to fault 70 for being eager to get into the game and ready to run that play. Allen’s a human being and I’m sure him family loves him but we all just witnessed what was not his finest professional moment.

This is not Allens first rodeo in fucking up a key call late in a game this season
View: https://twitter.com/sharpfootball/status/1741326502417834052?s=46

View: https://twitter.com/calvinwatkins/status/1741329621113594328?s=46

Brad Allen has called 3 primetime games this year, per @nflrefstats1 tonight, with the illegal touching penalty hurting Detroit the DPI non-call favoring Green Bay and hurting KC (the MVS non-call) the 10 penalty game against Miami with zero on Philly what are we doing here

And i sound like a broken record at this point, but the officiating in the NFL this year is the worst i have seen throughout an entire season.


And there will be zero accountability for these types of things because the NFL will twist itself into a pretzel to defend these calls.

 

[Zedia]

I missed the game, is the explanation wrong?

 

[Harry Hooper]

I missed the game, is the explanation wrong?

Yes, the official saw #70 running onto the field and assumed he was reporting as eligible as he he had done for several plays earlier. The player (#68) actually speaking to the official to report as eligible was ignored.

 

[Zedia]

Yes, the official saw #70 running onto the field and assumed he was reporting as eligible as he he had done for several plays earlier. The player (#68) actually speaking to the official to report as eligible veas ignored.

Thanks, just caught up with the replays online.

 

[CFB_Rules]

I don't have any kind of special insight into this play, the NFL is the only level of football that allows players to report as eligible. I do know Brad Allen as he is heavily involved in the college game. He's a top-notch official.

But this seems to me like a regular old communication breakdown. Communication always being a two-way street. If Detroit wanted the report to be unambiguous, they could have just had the player reporting give the "reporting eligible" signal to the referee. It would be on camera and there would be no doubt. Nobody gave any signals. They could have just had the person reporting as eligible walk up to the Referee.

The fact is, the Lions made the report as ambiguous as possible in an environment where it's impossible to hear. They did this intentionally in order to confuse the people on the field. Guess what: Mission accomplished.

Note that the Lions didn't say anything when Allen told the players on the defense that 70 was eligible. Nor when he announced that 70 was eligible over the stadium microphone.

I have a hard time saying that Allen should be able to hear everything at field level amongst the crowd noise but nobody on the Lions has any responsibility for listening to an announcement made on the PA system by the Referee.

 

[yeahlunchbox]

Do they still report eligible linemen over the PA? I don't recall hearing that announcement in years, but I can't say I've paid close enough attention to say for sure.

 

[CFB_Rules]

Do they still report eligible linemen over the PA? I don't recall hearing that announcement in years, but I can't say I've paid close enough attention to say for sure.

They do, but TV typically doesn't carry it. The press said they heard Allen announce it in the press box though.

 

[yeahlunchbox]

Thank you.

 

[ObstructedView]

I keep coming back to the underlying sense that the NFL has developed a quasi-legalistic mindset in which the refs are seemingly looking to make an impact on virtually every play. There's a reason that many play-by-play guys exclaim "THERE ARE NO FLAGS!!" when there's an amazing scoring play. And as I've said before, I think the ways in which catches are defined and replay is used are closely related to this mindset. I don't know how much of it is based on a well-intentioned fixation with "fairness" and how much of it stems from refs feeling like they have to get air time or justify their existence, but it's killing what's supposed to be an entertainment product. Last night was an extreme example, but officials are way too involved in even the most routine games.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I don't have any kind of special insight into this play, the NFL is the only level of football that allows players to report as eligible. I do know Brad Allen as he is heavily involved in the college game. He's a top-notch official.

But this seems to me like a regular old communication breakdown. Communication always being a two-way street. If Detroit wanted the report to be unambiguous, they could have just had the player reporting give the "reporting eligible" signal to the referee. It would be on camera and there would be no doubt. Nobody gave any signals. They could have just had the person reporting as eligible walk up to the Referee.

The fact is, the Lions made the report as ambiguous as possible in an environment where it's impossible to hear. They did this intentionally in order to confuse the people on the field. Guess what: Mission accomplished.

Note that the Lions didn't say anything when Allen told the players on the defense that 70 was eligible. Nor when he announced that 70 was eligible over the stadium microphone.

I have a hard time saying that Allen should be able to hear everything at field level amongst the crowd noise but nobody on the Lions has any responsibility for listening to an announcement made on the PA system by the Referee.

That’s not the standard though—the referee’s job is to get the initial number right. The team is not responsible for ensuring the announcement is accurate. And they have reasons not to seek to change the announcement (I get they bear risk from that point on if they make this choice). I get your point that each could have acted differently—and do not disagree. but this does not excise the ref getting it wrong initially either. The responsibility here is nowhere close to equal.

this is more akin to the blown coin-flip than a true shared responsibility situation. That may well be an honest mistake—but all evidence is that it was a mistake

 

[joe dokes]

That’s not the standard though—the referee’s job is to get the initial number right. The team is not responsible for ensuring the announcement is accurate. And they have reasons not to seek to change the announcement (I get they bear risk from that point on if they make this choice).

I think the team *is* responsible. The team is the one that wants to make a legally-ineligible player (by virtue of his uniform number) potentially eligible (depending on how he lines up). But they tried to do it in such a way that the other team wouldn't know. I think it's as simple as Campbell go too cute by half here and it burned him.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I think the team *is* responsible. The team is the one that wants to make a legally-ineligible player (by virtue of his uniform number) potentially eligible (depending on how he lines up). But they tried to do it in such a way that the other team wouldn't know. I think it's as simple as Campbell go too cute by half here and it burned him.

you have the rule wrong. It is: “other players can report as eligible to the referee before a play.” It requires the referee to tell the other team. It’s not at all ambiguous.

if one player goes to ref and tells him he is eligible the team has done what the rules state they need to do.

given there’s video of one player going to ref and none of the other player doing so, struggling to see how you conclude team didn’t do what was required.

put a simpler way perhaps: if the team says “68 is eligible” it’s far more up to ref to get that right than team to say, as play gets set up, the refs relayed the wrong number isn’t it? I’m unaware of a rule that says offensive team is responsible for the announcement…they only have a notice obligation don’t they?

 

[Van Everyman]

The fact that Campbell went through the trouble of telling the refs before the game what the play was going to be and who was reporting and they still screwed it up is < chef’s kiss >.

Just wait until the offseason when the league decides they have to do something about all this terrible officiating … and makes things even worse.

Even when it’s pretty good, the product remains terrible.

 

[CFB_Rules]

you have the rule wrong. It is: “other players can report as eligible to the referee before a play.” It requires the referee to tell the other team. It’s not at all ambiguous.

if one player goes to ref and tells him he is eligible the team has done what the rules state they need to do.

given there’s video of one player going to ref and none of the other player doing so, struggling to see how you conclude team didn’t do what was required.

put a simpler way perhaps: if the team says “68 is eligible” it’s far more up to ref to get that right than team to say, as play gets set up, the refs relayed the wrong number isn’t it? I’m unaware of a rule that says offensive team is responsible for the announcement…they only have a notice obligation don’t they?

So reading up on this, apparently 68 just went to the R and said "report". Not, "I report" or "I'm eligible". That's from Decker's post-game conference. And that's after #70 had been reported as eligible on almost every play beforehand by several different players. You can see how this can get screwed up.

The team is responsible for communicating to the referee and making sure he hears it. This applies to ANY form of communication in any sport. If you are about to snap from the 2 and the coach calls timeout from the 50, it's not on me to make sure I hear the timeout call.

I'm sure that 68 reported and 70 did not. But let me ask you, what is the teaching point here for the Referee? He went to the defensive and offensive lines and said "70 is eligible". Nobody on the offense corrected him. He got on the microphone and announced to God and country "Hey, the Lions have made 70 eligible" and the team stood there like "Yup, sounds great!". Should the Referee go to the HC and verify the number every single time before allowing the play to run? Should he just hear better? What is the procedural failure here?

 

[McBride11]

So reading up on this, apparently 68 just went to the R and said "report". Not, "I report" or "I'm eligible". That's from Decker's post-game conference. And that's after #70 had been reported as eligible on almost every play beforehand by several different players. You can see how this can get screwed up.

The team is responsible for communicating to the referee and making sure he hears it. This applies to ANY form of communication in any sport. If you are about to snap from the 2 and the coach calls timeout from the 50, it's not on me to make sure I hear the timeout call.

I'm sure that 68 reported and 70 did not. But let me ask you, what is the teaching point here for the Referee? He went to the defensive and offensive lines and said "70 is eligible". Nobody on the offense corrected him. He got on the microphone and announced to God and country "Hey, the Lions have made 70 eligible" and the team stood there like "Yup, sounds great!". Should the Referee go to the HC and verify the number every single time before allowing the play to run? Should he just hear better? What is the procedural failure here?

The ref should have said 'what, i didnt hear you' not assume 70 was reporting when 70 didnt even speak to him during this session. 68 is standing right in front of him. If the ref didn't hear or was unclear he should ask for clarification not make some wrong assumption. Then doubles down and lies in the post game stuff.

 

[CFB_Rules]

The ref should have said 'what, i didnt hear you' not assume 70 was reporting when 70 didnt even speak to him during this session. 68 is standing right in front of him. If the ref didn't hear or was unclear he should ask for clarification not make some wrong assumption. Then doubles down and lies in the post game stuff.

I am sure he would swear on his deathbed that he was told 70. And unless they have conclusive audio, the NFL will grade him as correct.

 

[Dogman]

View: https://twitter.com/_MLFootball/status/1741337495500107910


Allen nodding his acknowledgment the Decker reported.

 

[McBride11]

I am sure he would swear on his deathbed that he was told 70. And unless they have conclusive audio, the NFL will grade him as correct.

The guy who never spoke to Allen (per player in post game) declared himself eligible? Telepathy?

 

[Pesky Pole]

The ref should have said 'what, i didnt hear you' not assume 70 was reporting when 70 didnt even speak to him during this session. 68 is standing right in front of him. If the ref didn't hear or was unclear he should ask for clarification not make some wrong assumption. Then doubles down and lies in the post game stuff.

Steratore just made this point on NFL Today. He said on an important play like that, he'd go out of his way to repeat to the player "you're 68 and you're reporting eligible...confirm" right to the guys face. Seems like an easy way to do it. Of course, it's the NFL so they'll just make all lineman ineligible going forward to overcompensate their mistake.

 

[cornwalls@6]

The ref should have said 'what, i didnt hear you' not assume 70 was reporting when 70 didnt even speak to him during this session. 68 is standing right in front of him. If the ref didn't hear or was unclear he should ask for clarification not make some wrong assumption. Then doubles down and lies in the post game stuff.

Precisely. It sounds more and more like he didn't hear or comprehend who was reporting, and based on the trend of the game(which was a specific, fair, smart strategy by the Lions) assumed it was 70, and went with that. Why not just quickly turnaround and clarify? This narrative that was being peddled on ESPN last night, and a little bit here, that this is largely on the players seems like CYA bullshit.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

View: https://twitter.com/_MLFootball/status/1741337495500107910


Allen nodding his acknowledgment the Decker reported.

This is a tricky clip. If you watch a clip from a wider shot, Skipper is running right at Allen, so I am not sure why it’s definitive that Allen was acknowledging Decker, and not Skipper, was eligible.

View: https://twitter.com/cbs11billjones/status/1741346888383918227?s=46&t=1S4eWjX_rzBBrpPNddRPAg

 

[snowmanny]

This is not Allens first rodeo in fucking up a key call late in a game this season
View: https://twitter.com/sharpfootball/status/1741326502417834052?s=46

https://twitter.com/calvinwatkins/status/1741329621113594328?s=46

That non-DPI call in the GB-KC game was egregious, but there were multiple big misses at the end of that game, including a couple favoring KC (Mahomes getting a late-hit call when he was still in-bounds, and then ruling a KC playing tackled out of bounds and stopping the clock when he he was pushed straight back three yards before he went out). That was about as bad a stretch as I’ve seen all year.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

So reading up on this, apparently 68 just went to the R and said "report". Not, "I report" or "I'm eligible". That's from Decker's post-game conference. And that's after #70 had been reported as eligible on almost every play beforehand by several different players. You can see how this can get screwed up.

The team is responsible for communicating to the referee and making sure he hears it. This applies to ANY form of communication in any sport. If you are about to snap from the 2 and the coach calls timeout from the 50, it's not on me to make sure I hear the timeout call.

I'm sure that 68 reported and 70 did not. But let me ask you, what is the teaching point here for the Referee? He went to the defensive and offensive lines and said "70 is eligible". Nobody on the offense corrected him. He got on the microphone and announced to God and country "Hey, the Lions have made 70 eligible" and the team stood there like "Yup, sounds great!". Should the Referee go to the HC and verify the number every single time before allowing the play to run? Should he just hear better? What is the procedural failure here?

I hear you—my point was that if 68 says he’s eligible (which it seems pretty clear he did) it’s a major mistake by the ref to get that wrong in the announcement and then with a pemalty. Mistakes happen; we should also acknowledge them.

the teaching point is that every play matters and even if 70 was eligible 10 straight plays if on THIS play 68 reports you need to catch that when said and act accordingly.

im asking same standard for players, coaches, and refs. When Chiefs say “oh they should have warned us our guy was offsides” my comment was that is on your team and coaches primarily—-same standard here in my view. That others could have fixed it doesn’t change where primary responsibility lies.

I am not questioning integrity of the ref—but he got it wrong, honest mistake or not, and we should acknowledge that.

 

[riboflav]

Wow. That's clear as day. He says 70 is eligible twice. The Lions still ran the play for 68. That's on them at that point.

The only other question I have is does the fact that 70 is eligible and 68 is not make the formation illegal? If it is illegal, what was there not a flag thrown for allegation formation?

 

[johnmd20]

That non-DPI call in the GB-KC game was egregious, but there were multiple big misses at the end of that game, including a couple favoring KC (Mahomes getting a late-hit call when he was still in-bounds, and then ruling a KC playing tackled out of bounds and stopping the clock when he he was pushed straight back three yards before he went out). That was about as bad a stretch as I’ve seen all year.

All you need to do is watch a Browns or Commanders game if you want to see terrible calls. It's a cavalcade of horrible refereeing.

Of course, the Lions always seem to be on the wrong side of these calls, too.

The refs are atrocious. There is no excuse for a multi billion dollar property to use refs who are part time employees. There is too much money involved and they mess up way too often and it's constantly on the highest leverage plays. They need to be full time employees and they need to practice and train every week. It has to improve.

Jeez, pay them more. Triple their salaries. It's a rounding error to the NFL. Because every weekend it seems like the story line is, "The refs completely fucked up and ruined the ending of another big game."

 

[Cotillion]

So reading up on this, apparently 68 just went to the R and said "report". Not, "I report" or "I'm eligible". That's from Decker's post-game conference. And that's after #70 had been reported as eligible on almost every play beforehand by several different players. You can see how this can get screwed up.

The team is responsible for communicating to the referee and making sure he hears it. This applies to ANY form of communication in any sport. If you are about to snap from the 2 and the coach calls timeout from the 50, it's not on me to make sure I hear the timeout call.

I'm sure that 68 reported and 70 did not. But let me ask you, what is the teaching point here for the Referee? He went to the defensive and offensive lines and said "70 is eligible". Nobody on the offense corrected him. He got on the microphone and announced to God and country "Hey, the Lions have made 70 eligible" and the team stood there like "Yup, sounds great!". Should the Referee go to the HC and verify the number every single time before allowing the play to run? Should he just hear better? What is the procedural failure here?

Except there is no opportunity for the Lions to stop the play to correct the official. They don’t have a timeout. And there is no mechanism for them to correct the erroneous announcement. Play clock must be running in order to report as eligible/ineligible and it can’t be stopped for the purpose of reporting eligible. So what is the mechanism for the Lions to correct the refs mistake?

Also ref can’t assume someone is reporting eligible if they didn’t actually get to him and report eligible. To absolve Allen here, the belief has to be that the guy right in his space in front of him can not be heard reporting eligible due to noise, but the guy running from the sideline is heard by Allen declaring himself eligible (or worse that Allen just assumes he’s reporting eligible since he’s done it before) with the same noise factor.

 

[Cotillion]

Wow. That's clear as day. He says 70 is eligible twice. The Lions still ran the play for 68. That's on them at that point.

The only other question I have is does the fact that 70 is eligible and 68 is not make the formation illegal? If it is illegal, what was there not a flag thrown for allegation formation?

There is no mechanism for the Lions to correct a wrong announcement. Play clock must be running for ineligible/eligible declarations.

The ref screwed it up. Not the lions.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Wow. That's clear as day. He says 70 is eligible twice. The Lions still ran the play for 68. That's on them at that point.

The only other question I have is does the fact that 70 is eligible and 68 is not make the formation illegal? If it is illegal, what was there not a flag thrown for allegation formation?

The rule is that they are supposed to tell the ref, which they did. They are not, by rule, responsible for anything after that.

The ref blowing the number certainly creates a mess: once wrong number is announced, what do you do? Anything you do as Detroit has strategic implications; similarly, if you’re Dallas and 70 is what is communicated to you, you feel wronged if 68 gets the ball. It’s a mess…which is why we should focus on how we got there.

we have video of 68 speaking to ref, and none of 70. We have no basis for concluding anything other than what Detroit has said happened (though we’ll never know).

 

[joe dokes]

I hear you—my point was that if 68 says he’s eligible (which it seems pretty clear he did) it’s a major mistake by the ref to get that wrong in the announcement and then with a pemalty. Mistakes happen; we should also acknowledge them.

the teaching point is that every play matters and even if 70 was eligible 10 straight plays if on THIS play 68 reports you need to catch that when said and act accordingly.

im asking same standard for players, coaches, and refs. When Chiefs say “oh they should have warned us our guy was offsides” my comment was that is on your team and coaches primarily—-same standard here in my view. That others could have fixed it doesn’t change where primary responsibility lies.

I am not questioning integrity of the ref—but he got it wrong, honest mistake or not, and we should acknowledge that.

I would absolutely lay all the blame on the ref (assuming he was told 68 but heard and repeated 70), except for what I was reading last night about how the Lions intended some confusion.

But unless we're assuming he did it on purpose, the Lions went ahead with the play when they knew (or should have known, given the announcement) that the message was not received. The guy with the chain saw is ultimately responsible for cutting down the wrong tree if he mishears you. But if you stand there and watch . .

I also get the point about the Lions having no (or very limited) options in real time.
. .

 

[riboflav]

The rule is that they are supposed to tell the ref, which they did. They are not, by rule, responsible for anything after that.

The ref blowing the number certainly creates a mess: once wrong number is announced, what do you do? Anything you do as Detroit has strategic implications; similarly, if you’re Dallas and 70 is what is communicated to you, you feel wronged if 68 gets the ball. It’s a mess…which is why we should focus on how we got there.

we have video of 68 speaking to ref, and none of 70. We have no basis for concluding anything other than what Detroit has said happened (though we’ll never know).

I didn't watch the game. If they had a timeout, they should have taken it. If they weren't paying attention to the announcement that's also on the Lions.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

Wow. That's clear as day. He says 70 is eligible twice. The Lions still ran the play for 68. That's on them at that point.

The only other question I have is does the fact that 70 is eligible and 68 is not make the formation illegal? If it is illegal, what was there not a flag thrown for allegation formation?

I don’t agree it’s all on the Lions but in your case what’s their option? Get a delay of game while they go tell the ref he got the wrong number? Call a different play at the line because they realized the ref screwed up? Call timeout if they have one?

its 100% on the refs

 

[Jed Zeppelin]

This wouldn’t be a problem if the NFL rule book wasn’t so unnecessarily complicated.

Five guys on the line = ineligible, everyone else = eligible. Done, problem solved. But the league thrives on ambiguous nonsense because it means there is always a way to defend the refs.

If the ref assumed a guy reported because he had reported on previous plays, that is a giant grade A red flag fuckup and that ref should be done for the season.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I would absolutely lay all the blame on the ref (assuming he was told 68 but heard and repeated 70), except for what I was reading last night about how the Lions intended some confusion.
But unless we're assuming he did it on purpose, the Lions don't get a pass for going ahead with the play when they knew (or should have known, given the announcement) that the message was not received. The guy with the chain saw in ultimately responsible for cutting down the wrong tree if he mishears you. But if you stand there and watch . . . .

what’s their mechanism to stop it or change anything, though? Clock running, no timeouts…I don’t think your description is realistic in context.

I wouldn’t quite put this at 100-0 on blame: once wrong number announced the QB should recognize risk of keeping the play. But the reason he’s in that bad situation is a mistake primarily or wholly (depending on how one interprets the word that need to be said) of someone else’s doing, too.

 

[riboflav]

I don’t agree it’s all on the Lions but in your case what’s their option? Get a delay of game while they go tell the ref he got the wrong number? Call a different play at the line because they realized the ref screwed up? Call timeout if they have one?

its 100% on the refs

FTR, I'm not saying the ref didn't screw up. I'm not sure we have enough evidence either way. But, yeah, once the ref announces 70, not 68, the Lions must adjust. Especially if the play was designed to go to 68 as the primary receiver.

 

[CFB_Rules]

Except there is no opportunity for the Lions to stop the play to correct the official. They don’t have a timeout. And there is no mechanism for them to correct the erroneous announcement. Play clock must be running in order to report as eligible/ineligible and it can’t be stopped for the purpose of reporting eligible. So what is the mechanism for the Lions to correct the refs mistake?

Also ref can’t assume someone is reporting eligible if they didn’t actually get to him and report eligible. To absolve Allen here, the belief has to be that the guy right in his space in front of him can not be heard reporting eligible due to noise, but the guy running from the sideline is heard by Allen declaring himself eligible (or worse that Allen just assumes he’s reporting eligible since he’s done it before) with the same noise factor.

The play clock wasn’t running when he was told by #68 nor does it need to be. You can literally see Allen’s hand in the air as he is being notified.

Even if it was running, they could tell the Referee he had the wrong number and he would reset the play clock.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

FTR, I'm not saying the ref didn't screw up. I'm not sure we have enough evidence either way. But, yeah, once the ref announces 70, not 68, the Lions must adjust. Especially if the play was designed to go to 68 as the primary receiver.

Back to your point though if it was really screwed up it should be illegal formation. Expecting a team to on the fly call a play, report, line up hear the announcement and realize the ref screwed up, Change the play at the line and the formation to be legal isn’t realistic. The 2014 Patriots don’t get all that done in 20 seconds.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

The play clock wasn’t running when he was told by #68 not does it need to be. You can literally see Allen’s hand in the air as he is being notified.

Even if it was running, they could tell the Referee he had the wrong number and he would reset the play clock.

Whose job on the field is it to be listening to the PA to make sure the ref had it right? If the coach realizes it and starts yelling at the ref on the sidelines I’m sure the ref on the sidelines wasn’t even listening as it’s it in his responsibilities.

 

[Senator Donut]

But there has to be a way to play football without requiring linemen running up to a ref and telling them on a particular play to alert the D they are now eligible. It's archaic and bound to lead to problems.

As @CFB_Rules mentioned, the NFL is the only level of football where players can report as (in)eligible receivers. I presume because NFL teams have to deal relatively small game day rosters of 48, it would be hard to have functioning special teams units without extensive jersey swapping (not allowed in pro ball). The NFL already decided ineligible receivers wearing eligible numbers split wide is too onerous on a defense. They should probably scrap the whole reporting scheme except in kicking formations. This is not the first time a call like this has been mishandled in 2023 either.

View: https://twitter.com/nate_tice/status/1721320596938862636

 

[CFB_Rules]

Whose job on the field is it to be listening to the PA to make sure the ref had it right? If the coach realizes it and starts yelling at the ref on the sidelines I’m sure the ref on the sidelines wasn’t even listening as it’s it in his responsibilities.

The sideline official has to know the number reported because (s)he is responsible for calling all illegal formation fouls which could result from the numbers being screwed up.

But I would say it’s 68s job to make sure he communicated correctly. And Allen announced “70” literally within seconds of being notified.

 

[radsoxfan]

This wouldn’t be a problem if the NFL rule book wasn’t so unnecessarily complicated.

Five guys on the line = ineligible, everyone else = eligible. Done, problem solved. But the league thrives on ambiguous nonsense because it means there is always a way to defend the refs.

If the ref assumed a guy reported because he had reported on previous plays, that is a giant grade A red flag fuckup and that ref should be done for the season.

If they need to keep the more complicated rules, is there some reason it has to be done via telephone method with lineman telling the ref and the ref communicating to the D in a loud stadium over a few seconds between plays? This isnt 1968.

Have the head coach or OC text the ref any numbers reporting as eligible, have it go up on the scoreboard next to the play clock. Has to be texted in X seconds before the snap. Everyone including the D can see. No ambiguity, none of this nonsense.

 

[PC Drunken Friar]

Iv think a lot of this is simply refusing to admit an error. If Allen acknowledged that he made a mistake, lions fans are (rightfully) pissed. But refs miss many calls, in every sport, every day. Some are more egregious than others, but when video evidence clearly shows one side is correct and the other side doubles down…it’s frustrating.

 

[CFB_Rules]

Five guys on the line = ineligible, everyone else = eligible. Done, problem solved. But the league thrives on ambiguous nonsense because it means there is always a way to defend the refs.

Impossible for the defense to defend. 2 seconds after the snap and nobody remembers where anybody lined up at the snap.

 

[Cellar-Door]

To me the issue is less that the ref clearly screwed up... It's bad bit or happens. It's that he doubled down in the pool report and the league will back him to the hilt. Refs in all sports make mistakes, the best thing for the integrity and trust in officiating is to acknowledge mistakes.

 

[CFB_Rules]

To me the issue is less that the ref clearly screwed up... It's bad bit or happens. It's that he doubled down in the pool report and the league will back him to the hilt. Refs in all sports make mistakes, the best thing for the integrity and trust in officiating is to acknowledge mistakes.

If they have access to video prior to the pool report then I agree. At least for us in college, they refuse to give us video access until after we have completed all post-game reporting because they want us to give an accurate accounting of what we saw at the time.

 

[CFB_Rules]

The refs are atrocious. There is no excuse for a multi billion dollar property to use refs who are part time employees. There is too much money involved and they mess up way too often and it's constantly on the highest leverage plays. They need to be full time employees and they need to practice and train every week. It has to improve.

Jeez, pay them more. Triple their salaries. It's a rounding error to the NFL. Because every weekend it seems like the story line is, "The refs completely fucked up and ruined the ending of another big game."

They put a bunch of guys on full-time and then moved them all back to part-time later on because they couldn't figure out anything for them to do. They already go to all the officiating camps and watch a bunch of film. The only thing that would really help is reps and you can't force teams to practice in the offseason.

This is a problem across all levels of football and it's specific to football. It's hard to get live-action reps. All the games are typically played at the same time and there aren't very many of them.

A ten-year NFL vet has seen the same number of games as a MLB umpire in their rookie season. That's a big difference.

 

[nattysez]

Apparently Schefter reported on TV this morning that the refs blew the call last night "due to a mental error," which I assume means 68 reported as eligible and the ref assumed he was 70 reporting.

 

[snowmanny]

Of course, the Lions should have just kicked the XP once they were moved back.

 

[Pesky Pole]

Now ESPN puts this story on their front page saying the refs called a penalty on Dallas that should have been on Detroit on the prior drive. Not sure if this is meant to distract from the magnitude of this other call or truly pile on the crew involved.

Missed call earlier

 

[CFB_Rules]

Now ESPN puts this story on their front page saying the refs called a penalty on Dallas that should have been on Detroit on the prior drive. Not sure if this is meant to distract from the magnitude of this other call or truly pile on the crew involved.

Missed call earlier

This to me is a lot worse than the numbering play, especially since replay can whisper in your ear