In theory, you could get Fournier within TPE and do a separate trade with TT and flotsam (Semi, Edwards, Teague?) going out with picks and Gordon coming back. There'd need to be a third team ending up with TT, of course.
NBA Trade Deadline - Buyout Season Thread
- Thread starter NomarsFool
- Start date
This tweet sums up exact how I feel....
View: https://twitter.com/GregCassoli/status/1375110734011637767
View: https://twitter.com/GregCassoli/status/1375110734011637767
You'd probably flip that. Gordon into the TPE, Fournier is easier to salary match since he makes less.
No, if you can you'd prefer to do it the way I suggested because you keep more of the TPE to use later. Only reason to do it way you suggest is if you can't get enough flotsam included going the other way (a risk, given lack of value in end of roster)
I said if. Right now, both have little to no value so they won't get much in trade. So it's best to just hold on to them and hope they work out. IF they don't, it's going to suck. A few years back, we had a stacked roster and the Memphis and Kings picks. Fast forward to now and gross. A lot of that is because RL and AN haven't performed... at all.
If RL and AN were actually playing, it would change things. They also don't even need to be impact players to have trade value and/or on court value.
Wendell Carter isn't some super stud with tons of value. He's a young player who actually plays and produces.
If RL had actually played the first year and a half and was putting up something like 21.0 mpg, 8.9 points, 3.2 rebounds, 2.1 assists, 1.0 steals on .415/.289/.756 shooting and good D this season, he'd probably have similar value to WCJ if not more, and the players we would be talking about acquiring would be a lot better than Aaron Gordon.
AN and RL have not produced at all. They have provided no value on the court and their trade value has plummeted. This year's performance by Nesmith doesn't mean he's a bust and won't be good, it just mean he has 0 trade value. It doesn't say that about RL either but him already missing 2 seasons and still being an unknown makes him "salary filler."
Again, if they end up not being even 20 minute players... the team just wasted 2 decent changes to add cheap, young rotational players to Jay and Jay. It's a set back.
Right now, Desmond Bane has more value than RN and AL. He was not drafted 7th.
For TT's sake, you'd hope so. Orlando wouldn't have an issue paying TT next year with Gordon and Vuc off the books. Given Isaac's health and Bamba's perfomance, maybe they wouldn't even mind having him around.
They're basically average picks for that spot in the draft. Maybe Bane has more value? Tough to say how much teams buy into his early 3pt shooting, but that has more to do with his shooting being there than just getting minutes. WCJr has more value because:
1. He has a much better pedigree
2. Hes' putting up 11/8/2 on 51/36/74 splits in 25 MPG
Nesmith's value hasn't plummeted, it's the same as it was. Langford has been hurt and hasn't done much so he's lost value, but as I pointed out... that's honestly par for the course for picks in that range, they don't generally have much value year 2 unless they had a breakout like Bam.
Wow, two seasons ago, people were talking about ORL as a sleeper pick to make some noise in the EC playoffs and then they got Mo Bamba with the #6 pick in the draft and some people thought they had the best young talent in the league.
Now they are blowing it up. How quickly things change.
Now they are blowing it up. How quickly things change.
WIth your methodology, sure. Go tell me how good 15th picks in the NBA draft are.
? I gave you a list of guys from 14-17 in recent drafts.
Edit- to be more clear... history suggests that once a guy is picked in the 14+ range he doesn't have significant trade value unless/until he has a good season (or partial season). Late lottery and later picks are like cars, the minute they leave the lot they tank in value.
That was before we picked up Fournier but it's going to be close anyway. Chicago is 1.5 back and they are a lot better than people want to acknowledge. Or the C's are worse.
Shams - Gordon to the Nuggets
View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1375119990182006791?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1375119990182006791?s=20
Hope Danny has another move up his sleeve because Fournier is not enough of an improvement for this team.
Agreed. Plus, the C's have yet to unload any of the flotsam on their bench, which I'm hoping happens in all this.
Wow. I’m stunned Danny couldn’t beat that deal. Great trade for Denver.
This also puts to rest any conceivable notion that Smart and 1st round picks were ever on the table for Orlando
Unless Orlando has some other plan for Harris that is a lot worse return than either Celtics recent 1st plus a future one. Frankly, that's a worse return than TT, Nesmith, a 1st and filler.
One possible explanation is they really like Hampton, I guess. But Harris is a negative value and that really hurts the deal.
One possible explanation is they really like Hampton, I guess. But Harris is a negative value and that really hurts the deal.
If you are hoping to win a title, probably not. He's a pretty huge improvement over Semi and Grant though. I think a few people are going to be surprised how much better an average NBA starter is than Semi and friends.
Unfortunately, if the Celtics are using the TPE for Fournier, that means no real improvement for next season (assuming Fournier leaves). So, while Gordon was an improvement beyond this season, now it is pretty much win now.
Thank you!!!!! The tweets I am seeing saying that that package beats out what the Celtics could offer are driving me insane.
(Someone compared it to Smart+Nesmith+a 1st which is fucking certifiable).
Very, very dismayed at how this appears to be turning out for the Celtics...
I am sorry the trade deadline is affecting you so much. If it makes you better, Aaron Gordon + Fournier isn't likely enough to get the C's a banner this year. And for all of the Gordon talk, he is a decent player and nothing more. He is additive but not a difference maker. The Celtics not paying up for what he brings is probably to their benefit long term.
I think the question there is what's the theory of the team going forward? What I liked about Gordon is that while he might well not be it, you could wishcast a really interesting group where he's the 5 and you have switchy, athletic, strong passing, and shooting all over the court and that's pretty unique.
I like Fournier, and it's a good get. But he doesn't change the trajectory overall (imo) and so the improvement to compete at the top level comes from....where exactly? Or How?
Another target gone to another team -
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1375125424229994498?s=20
View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1375125424229994498?s=20
I agree that's gotta be the plan. Gets a rest-of-the-season tryout to see how he fits with Brad and the Jays.
If the tryout goes much worse than expected, perhaps they change course.
It's been reported quite a few places that Orlando really like RJ Hampton. The 1st are probably similar, given Boston probably had lottery protections. Smart vs Harris doesn't matter to Orlando.
So the Magic preferred RJ to Nesmith.
So the Magic preferred RJ to Nesmith.
I don't think Bjelica is really a fit with Fournier aboard. I like the player, but somewhat duplicative skillsets.
I guess if you could trade TT and a 1st for Bjelica OK, but basically wouldn't give an asset to add him to what they have now
I guess if you could trade TT and a 1st for Bjelica OK, but basically wouldn't give an asset to add him to what they have now
Exactly--Fournier fills the shooting need without causing the positional/defensive issues that Bjelica does. Kind of a no-brainer imo.
The only way would be to include Smart. It’s apparent that the Magic wanted a veteran defensive guard to replace Fournier and they got Harris. I wouldn’t have included Smart for Gordon either so I’m not upset with this.....but you better go get Barnes now.
In almost 20 years you can count on one hand the times Ainge has traded a future first round pick (i.e. a pick with unsettled value):
- KG trade
- IT trade
- Kyrie trade
Aaron Gordon changed the trajectory? I like him more than Fournier but neither one would make us serious title contenders.
The path atm is still the same: Growth from Tatum and Brown or one of TL/AN/RL/GW etc becoming a legit 3rd option/top 50 type player.
We still really need someone who can play the 4, I think. We basically replaced Teague with Fournier (which is an upgrade), but we don't have a Semi upgrade yet.
Bulls fan here.
What I can say with certainty is that if you go to a Bulls forum/Reddit/whatever, youll be scrolling a while to find anyone that is upset about losing Carter.
Somehow he’s seemed to regress since his roomie year, with times this year that he appears to be complete lost on the court.
The Magic deals show some very interesting player valuations.
The Vucevic deal means they must really love Carter Jr.
Then they get very little (just a TPE and 2nds) for Never Google
Then the AG deal seems based on having a decent positive value grade on Gary Harris at $20M, which seems crazy to me.
The Vucevic deal means they must really love Carter Jr.
Then they get very little (just a TPE and 2nds) for Never Google
Then the AG deal seems based on having a decent positive value grade on Gary Harris at $20M, which seems crazy to me.