NBA Trade Deadline - Buyout Season Thread

[PedroKsBambino]

Overall Ainge has done well in his tenure, he has pretty consistently not been great at small moves/back of roster stuff. The Delon Wright miss is another example of that, imo. It's not a massive move, but it helps. Last year's Heat are an example of how adding a couple non-star pieces can really help a team move forward. Ainge---whether it is too much focus on big, complicated trades; too much faith in player development of their own guys; or something else---just hasn't really done a lot of that type of deal.

Very curious to see what occurs today, it will be bad if nothing material does in my view

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Ainge---whether it is too much focus on big, complicated trades; too much faith in player development of their own guys; or something else---just hasn't really done a lot of that type of deal.

I think a lot of it is that the Cs are looking at massive tax bills coming up with the Jays and are trying to develop some contributors so DA doesn't have to rebuild the back of the roster every year (or overpay for vets). There's not another GM in the league that would have a team with championship aspirations and have 10 rookie contracts on the roster (not even including Waters and Tacko).

 

[HowBoutDemSox]

By far. He has to get even marginal help.

I hate this idea that he has to do something because they aren’t playing like world beaters this season. To me the opposite logic applies, if they’re not going to have a shot at winning the title this year, don’t use assets (draft picks, portions of the Hayward TPE) on marginal tweaks that won’t get them anywhere this year and won’t make them appreciably better in the future. It’s rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. If there’s no game changing trade (and we can argue about whether an Aaron Gordon-type trade is that) or trade that helps bring in talent for future seasons, I’d prefer Ainge stay pat, play Nesmith and Langford (when he’s back), and have Tatum and Brown continue to figure out how to be a star in this league.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I think a lot of it is that the Cs are looking at massive tax bills coming up with the Jays and are trying to develop some contributors so DA doesn't have to rebuild the back of the roster every year (or overpay for vets). There's not another GM in the league that would have a team with championship aspirations and have 10 rookie contracts on the roster (not even including Waters and Tacko).

That's fair as to right now---but my comment goes back many years, too.

I think (and said this in the draft and during FA) that their faith in their own guys is a bit too great. That they have all these rookies and few vet min guys is, to me, part of the issue with the roster construction this year. Even as you say with the goal of building a cost-controlled bench, it's just too young a group imo.

 

[bsj]

How many more players will the Nets get via buyout? 7? 8?

 

[Devizier]

Here's a thought; if the Celtics went sellers, would you be willing to ship Kemba off to (say) the Lakers?

 

[Dduncan6er]

If there was a chance to move Kemba to any other team in the league Danny would do it in a heartbeat. Unfortunately that's just a dream at this point.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Here's a thought; if the Celtics went sellers, would you be willing to ship Kemba off to (say) the Lakers?

As with all players.... depends on the return.

I'm not a believer in the "dump Kemba at all costs" model. I think you get more suitors for him in the summer, and you're more likely to have something lined up to replace him. Dumping him now without a real return is a bad call. You aren't really opening up flexibility, and you're selling pretty low. I think he's been getting better and better as his injury return moves on. If you decide he needs to go, the Summer is the time to do it, you can open a lot more doors (NYK?) then that aren't really open now.

 

[boca]

The Athletic reporting Javale Magee to the Nuggets

Deal confirmed by Woj

View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1375086814881546244?s=21

 

[PedroKsBambino]

I am not opposed to trading Kemba but you need him to have enough value to return something, and you need to have a picture of how you replace the on-court PG and shooting needs.

I know there's been a bit of discussion of Lakers looking at Lowry; he's a great fit there. However, the cap mechanics look tricky to me----Lakers can get there with 2 of KCP, Schroeder, and Harrell. But there's no picks avaiable and so the asset value is pretty low. I guess if you imagine it is KCP, Harrell, and THT that gives Toronto a bit of value and not terrible contracts. But that's far from the best offer they will have for Lowry.

 

[NomarsFool]

The Athletic proposed "Aaron Gordon for Tristan Thompson, Payton Pritchard, a 2021 first-round pick and either Romeo Langford or Aaron Nesmith"

In a separate article they proposed sending Smart in the Gordon deal, and then turning around and sending picks to NOL for Ball. That would be pretty interesting.

 

[DannyDarwinism]

View: https://twitter.com/keithsmithnba/status/1375097560063479810?s=21


According to league sources, Aaron Nesmith is drawing a good deal more interest from opposing teams than Romeo Langford. One team not talking trade with Boston told me "That tracks. Langford is such an unknown. That goes back to the draft. Nothing has changed since then."

 

[Cellar-Door]

View: https://twitter.com/keithsmithnba/status/1375097560063479810?s=21


According to league sources, Aaron Nesmith is drawing a good deal more interest from opposing teams than Romeo Langford. One team not talking trade with Boston told me "That tracks. Langford is such an unknown. That goes back to the draft. Nothing has changed since then."

Not surprising. Nesmith was considered a clearer #14 pick and hasn't lost most of 2 years to injury.
Langford makes little sense to trade unless you find a team that loved him on draft night, his value is way down.

 

[Cellar-Door]

View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1375100824737755145


WOW, no idea what CHI has to offer, but have to think it's what... 3 first rounders?

Edit- Carter Jr. two 1sts and Otto Porter's salary allegedly

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

That feels pretty light. Is Carter Jr. better than I think? I think the Celtics could have matched that with two picks, Smart, Nesmith and TT for salary.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

That feels pretty light. Is Carter Jr. better than I think? I think the Celtics could have matched that with two picks, Smart, Nesmith and TT for salary.

Carter Jr is maybe better than you think but he also still has considerable upside.

 

[128]

I'm giving Danny the benefit of the doubt, for now, but for all the talk about how hard it is to swing big deals, other teams seem to pull it off every year.

 

[Swedgin]

View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1375100824737755145


WOW, no idea what CHI has to offer, but have to think it's what... 3 first rounders?

Edit- Carter Jr. two 1sts and Otto Porter's salary allegedly

The protection on those will be really interesting. Chicago future firsts have a lot of variability.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I'm giving Danny the benefit of the doubt, for now, but for all the talk about how hard it is to swing big deals, other teams seem to pull it off every year.

Other teams have tradable assets like Wendell Carter instead of Romeo Langford. Of course, that is also Ainge's fault.

 

[CSteinhardt]

I'm giving Danny the benefit of the doubt, for now, but for all the talk about how hard it is to swing big deals, other teams seem to pull it off every year.

It's not hard to pull off big deals. It's hard to pull off big deals that benefit your team.

 

[Dduncan6er]

That feels pretty light. Is Carter Jr. better than I think? I think the Celtics could have matched that with two picks, Smart, Nesmith and TT for salary.

I think you're underrating WCJ and the 2021 first rounder could also be a lottery pick. I'll be interested to see if there's any protection on these picks.

 

[Cellar-Door]

That feels pretty light. Is Carter Jr. better than I think? I think the Celtics could have matched that with two picks, Smart, Nesmith and TT for salary.

WCJr is pretty good, also... I'd much rather have Bulls picks than Celtics picks.

Other teams have tradable assets like Wendell Carter instead of Romeo Langford. Of course, that is also Ainge's fault.

Carter Jr was picked 7th overall, are we really arguing that it's Ainge's fault he doesn't have recent top lottery picks (other than the ones that are now All-Stars) to trade because his team has been on deep playoff runs?

 

[Swedgin]

I think you're underrating WCJ and the 2021 first rounder could also be a lottery pick. I'll be interested to see if there's any protection on these picks.

An unprotected 2023 first from Chicago could be a real asset. I can see a path where the Bulls are a 4-5 seed in 2023. Or they could be a bottom dweller if Lavine leaves in FA, 33 year old Vuc takes a step back and Patrick Williams and Coby White fail to develop.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

WCJr is pretty good, also... I'd much rather have Bulls picks than Celtics picks.


Carter Jr was picked 7th overall.

And?

RL and AN picks have seriously hampered the C's.

 

[DannyDarwinism]

Hmmm, if OPJ gets bought out by Orlando, he'd be interesting wing depth.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Hmmm, if OPJ gets bought out by Orlando, he'd be interesting wing depth.

I feel dumb. WTF is OPJ?

 

[PedroKsBambino]

That suggests a full blow-it-up for Orlando, too, which I think should accelerate Gordon and Fournier moving.

Then again, it's Orlando...

 

[128]

Who?

Otto Porter Jr.

 

[Kliq]

Orlando decisively winning the Howard-Bynum-Vucevic center swap from 2012 was something that was genuinely shocking.Vuc gave them like, 50x more value than the other guys did to their clubs.

 

[NomarsFool]

Wow. Didn't see them moving Vucevic. That should theoretically decrease the cost for Gordon as they are obviously blowing it all up.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Otto Porter Jr.

Oh, duh.

 

[Cellar-Door]

And?

RL and AN picks have seriously hampered the C's.

I mean... HOW? A rookie #14 and a second year #14 aren't premium assets.
Of all Danny's flaws, that late lottery picks didn't break out immediately isn't one of them.
They were always non-premium assets and remain as such, Carter was a top pick, he's been mediocre for that, but not bad enough to lose the luster.

Edit- Langford has lost some value because he's been injured... it happens. Nesmith is worth exactly what he was on draft night.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Wow. Didn't see them moving Vucevic. That should theoretically decrease the cost for Gordon as they are obviously blowing it all up.

Probably moves Chicago ahead of us too.

 

[Swedgin]

Should help with the asking price for Gordon. If your all-star, face of the franchise (signed for two more years) fetched two firsts and an recent top 10 pick, what's Gordon worth?

 

[Cesar Crespo]

I mean... HOW? A rookie #14 and a second year #14 aren't premium assets.
Of all Danny's flaws, that late lottery picks didn't break out immediately isn't one of them.
They were always non-premium assets and remain as such, Carter was a top pick, he's been mediocre for that, but not bad enough to lose the luster.

because they aren't even assets and can't even get on the court.

Do you really think if they wasted back to back 14th picks it's not going to set the team back a little? Does it not hurt?

 

[NomarsFool]

Exactly. Vuc is a much better player than Gordon.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Should help with the asking price for Gordon. If your all-star, face of the franchise (signed for two more years) fetched two firsts and an recent top 10 pick, what's Gordon worth?

I doubt the price was ever much more than a 1st and a young player. Even if that is the price, I think there's a good chance some other team has a better pick or young player than the C's.

 

[Dduncan6er]

because they aren't even assets and can't even get on the court.

Do you really think if they wasted back to back 14th picks it's not going to set the team back a little? Does it not hurt?

How do you know they are both wasted picks? Are we really writing off a couple of 21 year olds just because they didn't step in to be immediate contributors on a playoff team?

 

[Cellar-Door]

Should help with the asking price for Gordon. If your all-star, face of the franchise (signed for two more years) fetched two firsts and an recent top 10 pick, what's Gordon worth?

Whatever someone will pay for him.
The asking price for Gordon is unrelated, it will be the best deal they can get, same as before.

because they aren't even assets and can't even get on the court.

Do you really think if they wasted back to back 14th picks it's not going to set the team back a little? Does it not hurt?

We're 1.5 years into Langford, and lless than 3 months into Nesmith's career. Was Jimmy Butler a wasted pick based on his first 3 months?
Guys drafted in the teens often don't work out, very few become impact players, and the ones that do usually take a while.

 

[128]

View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1375103612368605187

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Woj:

View: https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1375107061005094916

 

[DannyDarwinism]

Great move. Fournier can score and really shoot.

 

[PedroKsBambino]

Good fit and pickup, though also using $17 mil of the TPE. Probably as much value as you can get for it and they'd get his Bird rights.

Ideally you'd then send out a few mil to get under tax. TT the obvious move, but could get there with combo of others potentially.

Odd move if just for this year, so wonder if they do it with idea to resign, or this is stage one of something else.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

Anyway. Wendell Carter turns 22 in April, is 6'8-6'9, has a wing span of 7'3-7'5 and a standing reach of 9'-9'1 depending on what your source is.

He has good hands and moves well on both sides of the court. Quick first step, decent jump shot, decent FT shooter. He'll probably expand his game to add the 3 at some point.

He's only an average NBA, so he's not going to run and jump out the building. His foot speed is also not the greatest and he may never be great shakes as a perimeter defender.

C's don't really have anyone close to him in value unless a team really, really loved TL. Chicago's picks may or may not be worse than ours.

Vuc/Lauri/Williams/Lavine/White is an interesting starting lineup. Lots of size and lots of range. It's also quite young and might struggle with D. Curious how Vuc and Lauri would play together. Lauri has also been rumored to be on the trading block and is an RFA at the end of this season, as everyone probably knows because I've mentioned him as a C's target 400 times.

The Bulls should be pretty good though. They still have ammunition to trade and still have a decent young core in place. Must be nice.

 

[Cesar Crespo]

How do you know they are both wasted picks? Are we really writing off a couple of 21 year olds just because they didn't step in to be immediate contributors on a playoff team?

See the word if?

 

[Cellar-Door]

So one the Langford/Nesmith front.
Here are the #14-17 picks since
2015
Cam Payne- Bad as a rookie, traded for a bench player his 2nd career deep bench
Kelly Oubre- Struggled badly his first 2 years, up and down player rotation option
Terry Rozier- Didn't play much year 1, struggled year 2, broke out year 3 solid NBA starter
Rashad Vaughn- Terrible

2016
Denzel Valentine- Terrible as a rookie, below average year 2, then declining minutes last 2, Bench player
Juan Hernangomez- Pretty solid as a rookie, bad year 2, now an up and down bench player
Yabu- spent a year overseas, came back was bad out of the league
Wade Baldwin- Busted out of the league in 3 years

2017
Bam Adebayo- Solid as a rookie (bad O good D), took a step year 2, broke out year 3
Justin Jackson- Bad rookie year, mediocre year 2, traded, trailed off, traded again
Justin Patton- Barely played for 3 years, bench guy on the worst team in the league now
DJ Wilson- Didn't play as a rookie, okay deep bench year 2, trailed off, traded, now can't get minutes on a bad HOU team

2018-
MPJ- Missed a full year to injury, year 2 good off the bench, year 3 possible breakout candidate
Troy Brown- 3 years, none even close to decent
Zhaire Smith- 2 bad years, out of the league
Donte DiVincenzo- Barely played as a rookie, solid bench player year 2 and 3.

Langford and Nesmith may work out, they may not. It's about par for the course.

 

[radsoxfan]

Replacing our current wing situation with 30 min from Fournier is a massive upgrade. He isn't that great but the delta there is huge.

Wonder what that means for Gordon....

 

[lovegtm]

Good fit and pickup, though also using $17 mil of the TPE. Probably as much value as you can get for it and they'd get his Bird rights.

Ideally you'd then send out a few mil to get under tax. TT the obvious move, but could get there with combo of others potentially.

Odd move if just for this year, so wonder if they do it with idea to resign, or this is stage one of something else.

If they’re using the TPE, the intention is probably to re-sign Fournier, which I like. He’s the exact type of player who makes sense on a Jays team.

Regarding other salary going out:
View: https://twitter.com/KeithSmithNBA/status/1375109738552307715?s=20

 

[NomarsFool]

Out of curiosity, I took a look at a few of the players drafted after Langford - Sekou and Goga Bidaze. Both have done nothing so far in the NBA.

 

[lovegtm]

Replacing our current wing situation with 30 min from Fournier is a massive upgrade. He isn't that great but the delta there is huge.

Wonder what that means for Gordon....

It means the Celtics can now deal fat Smart without taking a depth hit...