NBA Trade Deadline - Buyout Season Thread

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
Gordon for one of Nesmith or Langford (or, I guess, Timelord) doesn't work from a cap perspective, right? Without Smart getting moved, that means Thompson is almost certainly involved to balance the salaries, and even then it looks like another small contract (Edwards/Green/Teague) is needed to match.
The problem the Magic have is that they keep using high draft picks on centers and power forwards. They don't need another. Langford or Nesmith for Gordon keeps Boston under the hard cap, but would push back the luxury tax reset until next year. But if Walker keeps improving that wouldn't be hard.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Does anyone top a 1st and AN?
Where the 1st would be that is a pretty weak offer when you have multiple teams competing. Everyone is low-balling right now to keep the price down there in the final 5 hours the Magic will probably begin receiving serious offers.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
I think if Marcus isn't in a deal ORL sends him elsewhere honestly, it's too easy for DEN or POR to offer more promising young players than us.
Unless Denver is trading Porter I don't think that's true. And they might be re-dealing Porter anyway once Isaac got back. Portland has Nesmith/Langford equivalents, but nothing better. Not even Zach Collins, really, whose job in Orlando would be keeping Mo Bamba company on the bench.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
Where the 1st would be that is a pretty weak offer when you have multiple teams competing. Everyone is low-balling right now to keep the price down there in the final 5 hours the Magic will probably begin receiving serious offers.
I think a top 18 pick in 2021 is probably the best asset the Magic get. Especially as they don't need to take salary filler to get it.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,457
Unless Denver is trading Porter I don't think that's true. And they might be re-dealing Porter anyway once Isaac got back. Portland has Nesmith/Langford equivalents, but nothing better. Not even Zach Collins, really, whose job in Orlando would be keeping Mo Bamba company on the bench.
I've heard ORL like Hampton. I think Hampton/Nnaji/Morris are probably at least as attractive as what we have.
I also think for POR, Simons is more attractive than anything we have as a single piece (outside maybe TL).

Langford has little value, he hasn't played this year, and he doesn't have much to show for 2 years in the league. Nesmith is about the same as a guy like Hampton or Nnaji, haven't done much, were in the same general bucket on draft night, we have no clue how ORL ranked the 3 of them on draft night.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
Orlando already has about 27 PFs and Cs on their roster. They don't need any more. I don't think Hampton is any better really than Langford or Nesmith. But that's not the question, the question is whether they value him enough to accept Hampton/Harris as the return, because given the new hole in the backcourt the Nuggets won't be adding draft picks to that. With Boston they at least get to reduce payroll and not have to eat bad filler contracts to get their mediocre prospect.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,271
TT is probably only going to ORL in a deal that also brings Fournier. You aren't salary matching otherwise, and ORL doesn't want him.

There are probably 2 ways this deal works:
Option 1:
Gordon
for
Picks + Young guy

Option 2:
Gordon
Fournier (likely with an extension)
for
Picks
Young guys and/or Smart
Salary filler if no Smart (TT+)

ORL likely would want to move TT in the latter to a 3rd team for an expiring and a lotto ticket or 2nd.


Denver too
The following tweet is the template I am working out of. I think Nesmith is swapped out for Grant and another heavily protected 1st but still, when compared to the other offers ive seen rumored (both with the Celtics and otherteams), this offer makes so much more sense than anything involving Smart.

View: https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1374780540583284742
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,457
The following tweet is the template I am working out of. I think Nesmith is swapped out for Grant and another heavily protected 1st but still, when compared to the other offers ive seen rumored (both with the Celtics and otherteams), this offer makes so much more sense than anything involving Smart.

View: https://twitter.com/dangercart/status/1374780540583284742
There is a reason he calls that "the most Celtics-friendly" feasible structure. Maybe ORL does that if they have nothing else out there, but that is everything BOS wants in a deal rather than something ORL particularly wants.

ORL doesn't really want that deal, that is the BCS for BOS rather than a particularly probable one. He dumps a bunch of money ORL has no real need to take on ORL (TT and Carsen), and gives up only 1 player of value and only 1 draft pick.
That's a deal that only happens if ORL has almost no other real offers.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,271
There is a reason he calls that "the most Celtics-friendly" feasible structure. Maybe ORL does that if they have nothing else out there, but that is everything BOS wants in a deal rather than something ORL particularly wants.

ORL doesn't really want that deal, that is the BCS for BOS rather than a particularly probable one. He dumps a bunch of money ORL has no real need to take on ORL (TT and Carsen), and gives up only 1 player of value and only 1 draft pick.
That's a deal that only happens if ORL has almost no other real offers.
That’s why I added in a protected 1st from his offer...I merely said that that was the template since you questioned having TT in a deal without Fournier.

Do I think this exact deal will happen? No. I think Boston will have to add in more picks than what was suggested (maybe even more than what I suggested). But I am pretty damn sure that this framework is much more likely than anything involving Marcus Smart AND 1st round picks for Gordon and a guy the Magic are basically offering around the league for a 2nd round pick and getting no takers
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,667
Barnes and particularly Gordon don't really feel worth giving up Nesmith + that kind of draft capital imo. They will make the team slightly better in the short term but I don't see it putting Boston close to Philly/Brooklyn/Milwaukee this season. I kind of think we need to accept that this season the Celtics are not going to be title contenders and that is okay.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,457
That’s why I added in a protected 1st from his offer...I merely said that that was the template since you questioned having TT in a deal without Fournier.

Do I think this exact deal will happen? No. I think Boston will have to add in more picks than what was suggested (maybe even more than what I suggested). But I am pretty damn sure that this framework is much more likely than anything involving Marcus Smart AND 1st round picks for Gordon and a guy the Magic are basically offering around the league for a 2nd round pick and getting no takers
It's possible I guess. My feeling is ORL would just tell us to find somewhere else to dump TT's salary, and that Danny would likely rather do that than add value in picks.

Barnes and particularly Gordon don't really feel worth giving up Nesmith + that kind of draft capital imo. They will make the team slightly better in the short term but I don't see it putting Boston close to Philly/Brooklyn/Milwaukee this season. I kind of think we need to accept that this season the Celtics are not going to be title contenders and that is okay.
Maybe.. on the other hand you're talking multiple years for both, they aren't rentals, and if you think the next 2-3 years is your window, the odds are that either of them adds more on-court value over that period than Nesmith and a pick.
Edit- also remember, you need to use the TPE no later than this offseason, as it is the last chance to add salary for quite a while.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
22,667
It's possible I guess. My feeling is ORL would just tell us to find somewhere else to dump TT's salary, and that Danny would likely rather do that than add value in picks.


Maybe.. on the other hand you're talking multiple years for both, they aren't rentals, and if you think the next 2-3 years is your window, the odds are that either of them adds more on-court value over that period than Nesmith and a pick.
Edit- also remember, you need to use the TPE no later than this offseason, as it is the last chance to add salary for quite a while.
I guess right now my team building strategy for the Celtics would be to remain flexible with cap space and roster pieces in order to eventually land a third superstar to pair with Tatum/Brown, either at the end of the Kemba contract or when Kemba's deal has less time on it to become more tradeable. I don't know how Barnes/Gordon really fit into that situation other than tying up more money and not significantly improving the team. I'd rather sit on Nesmith and my picks and avoid any long-term money being spent on non-star players.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
Barnes and particularly Gordon don't really feel worth giving up Nesmith + that kind of draft capital imo. They will make the team slightly better in the short term but I don't see it putting Boston close to Philly/Brooklyn/Milwaukee this season. I kind of think we need to accept that this season the Celtics are not going to be title contenders and that is okay.
You worried about it falling between 6-14? The 2nd round picks are fungible.

Nesmith and a non lotto 1st seems fair for Gordon.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
I guess right now my team building strategy for the Celtics would be to remain flexible with cap space and roster pieces in order to eventually land a third superstar to pair with Tatum/Brown, either at the end of the Kemba contract or when Kemba's deal has less time on it to become more tradeable. I don't know how Barnes/Gordon really fit into that situation other than tying up more money and not significantly improving the team. I'd rather sit on Nesmith and my picks and avoid any long-term money being spent on non-star players.
Gordon could easily be salary fodder for that third piece. Gordon at 1/16.5 is the exact type of piece for that.
 

Jed Zeppelin

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 23, 2008
51,289
I guess right now my team building strategy for the Celtics would be to remain flexible with cap space and roster pieces in order to eventually land a third superstar to pair with Tatum/Brown, either at the end of the Kemba contract or when Kemba's deal has less time on it to become more tradeable. I don't know how Barnes/Gordon really fit into that situation other than tying up more money and not significantly improving the team. I'd rather sit on Nesmith and my picks and avoid any long-term money being spent on non-star players.
They have no flexibility or cap space until Kemba is gone either way. Keeping the picks and young players is simply a lesser degree of inflexibility than if they acquire better players now.
 

shoelace

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 24, 2019
268
It's possible I guess. My feeling is ORL would just tell us to find somewhere else to dump TT's salary, and that Danny would likely rather do that than add value in picks.


Maybe.. on the other hand you're talking multiple years for both, they aren't rentals, and if you think the next 2-3 years is your window, the odds are that either of them adds more on-court value over that period than Nesmith and a pick.
Edit- also remember, you need to use the TPE no later than this offseason, as it is the last chance to add salary for quite a while.
I think this is spot on. And it's possible that Gordon can provide Tatum some relief on the defensive end, and be asked to expend his energy against the Durant/Giannis/Bam/LeBron types. Not to say that Gordon is going to lock those guys down, but the larger defensive effect of acquiring Gordon can take bad defenders off the floor and allow Tatum/Brown to expend more energy on offense. Provided Gordon is okay with being low usage and a 4th/5th option offensively, it makes sense. Not worth giving up a ton of value for, but not a bad trade if they make it.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,457
I guess right now my team building strategy for the Celtics would be to remain flexible with cap space and roster pieces in order to eventually land a third superstar to pair with Tatum/Brown, either at the end of the Kemba contract or when Kemba's deal has less time on it to become more tradeable. I don't know how Barnes/Gordon really fit into that situation other than tying up more money and not significantly improving the team. I'd rather sit on Nesmith and my picks and avoid any long-term money being spent on non-star players.
I mean, neither does anything to hurt that strategy, but the also make the team better. If your strategy is to get worse the next 2 years while adding more late 1st talent like Grant, then hope that a 3rd star wants to come to you (rather than your 2 stars wanting out given your failures), that's not much of a strategy. It is unlikely that Nesmith and our next few 1sts will ever have more value than they do right now, and without a TPE to absorb salary, they are going to have to be combined with either someone like Smart... or negative salary that means giving up more picks.

Edit- also, we can't remain flexible with cap space... we don't have any, and won't for at least 2-3 more years. Losing the TPE, means we have no cap space with no way to really add a player. Using the TPE for a positive value player with multiple years left actually leaves you more cap flexible, because you have no cap space, but have ways to bring in players through trade.
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
You can always acquire 1st too. OKC will probably be looking to unload some in the next few years. They can't possibly use them all.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Barnes and particularly Gordon don't really feel worth giving up Nesmith + that kind of draft capital imo. They will make the team slightly better in the short term but I don't see it putting Boston close to Philly/Brooklyn/Milwaukee this season. I kind of think we need to accept that this season the Celtics are not going to be title contenders and that is okay.
Barnes or Gordon aren’t for only this year but for the next several years. There isn’t any single player available to leapfrog us ahead of Philly or Brooklyn.......the goal of any one trade has to be incremental improvement and either of them taking all the minutes at the 4 plus eliminating the two bigs make us a much better team now but also heading into the summer.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
4,700
Saint Paul, MN
I hope they go big. Keep Jaylen and Tatum (and likely Kemba cause nobody would want him) but everyone else and every pick is available.

I would like a Collins + Bogdanovic for Smart + Thompson (to make the money work) + picks. Match any Collins offer in the summer. Trade Kemba into someone's space.
 

DannyDarwinism

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 7, 2007
4,883
I've been out of the loop on NBA stuff for a couple of days, but I did see a Yahoo report that the Pistons turned down a Marvin Bagley for Saddiq Bey. I know Bagley has been mostly injured, bad, and disgruntled, but it sounds like maybe he could be had for something like Nesmith or Romeo. A pretty big fall from grace for the guy taken over Luka and Trae, but he's similar-ish enough to Aaron Gordon (granted, mostly on offense) that it made me think about it. Obviously he's a much worse player- hence the pittance asking price- and I don't watch enough of the Kings to have much of an opinion on whether he's worth it as a reclamation project, but it does sound like he'll be sold for a bag of balls.
 

the moops

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 19, 2016
4,700
Saint Paul, MN
I've been out of the loop on NBA stuff for a couple of days, but I did see a Yahoo report that the Pistons turned down a Marvin Bagley for Saddiq Bey. I know Bagley has been mostly injured, bad, and disgruntled, but it sounds like maybe he could be had for something like Nesmith or Romeo.
Saddiq Bey is at this point a way more valuable asset than either Nesmith or Romeo. Probably even more valuable than those two together
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
I've been out of the loop on NBA stuff for a couple of days, but I did see a Yahoo report that the Pistons turned down a Marvin Bagley for Saddiq Bey. I know Bagley has been mostly injured, bad, and disgruntled, but it sounds like maybe he could be had for something like Nesmith or Romeo. A pretty big fall from grace for the guy taken over Luka and Trae, but he's similar-ish enough to Aaron Gordon (granted, mostly on offense) that it made me think about it. Obviously he's a much worse player- hence the pittance asking price- and I don't watch enough of the Kings to have much of an opinion on whether he's worth it as a reclamation project, but it does sound like he'll be sold for a bag of balls.
He's out for about another month as we speak and he has huge questions defensively. I also don't think Saddiq Bey is a bag of balls.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,271
I've been out of the loop on NBA stuff for a couple of days, but I did see a Yahoo report that the Pistons turned down a Marvin Bagley for Saddiq Bey. I know Bagley has been mostly injured, bad, and disgruntled, but it sounds like maybe he could be had for something like Nesmith or Romeo. A pretty big fall from grace for the guy taken over Luka and Trae, but he's similar-ish enough to Aaron Gordon (granted, mostly on offense) that it made me think about it. Obviously he's a much worse player- hence the pittance asking price- and I don't watch enough of the Kings to have much of an opinion on whether he's worth it as a reclamation project, but it does sound like he'll be sold for a bag of balls.
I think Bagley is a good potential buy low candidate but he is horrific defensively, the gap between him and Gordon on that end is hard to put into words
 

ZMart100

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 15, 2008
3,188
I guess right now my team building strategy for the Celtics would be to remain flexible with cap space and roster pieces in order to eventually land a third superstar to pair with Tatum/Brown, either at the end of the Kemba contract or when Kemba's deal has less time on it to become more tradeable. I don't know how Barnes/Gordon really fit into that situation other than tying up more money and not significantly improving the team. I'd rather sit on Nesmith and my picks and avoid any long-term money being spent on non-star players.
I largely agree but for a slightly different reason. The constraint to me is not to sell picks now that we will need to turn Kemba into a 3rd star. I would prefer a draft day trade of '21 #1 and '22 #1 than give up the '21 #1 and '23 #1 now. '21 #1 will be less valuable on draft day, but it is worth it to save assets we hopefully will need in the future.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
8,156
Why in the world would any team want Nesmith or Romeo at this point? Wouldn't a future Celtics first rounder be more valuable? I know Romeo was a 14th selection, but he's lost two years of development and has just 2 years left of low cost team control. I'd think a fresh 1st rounder, even a later pick, would have more value.

Similarish for Nesmith - a year gone, I'm not saying he's trash, but he hardly looks like the steal of the draft or anything at this point.

If I were Ainge, I'd think trading either of them would really be selling low.
 

Cellar-Door

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
34,457
This guy is the worst “insider” ever. Just gives Woj pbp.
I think he's really good. He's a cap expert more than anything and one of the best. He rehashes what Woj says on TV/Radio, but everyone does that.
He isn't really a source guy, outside of some Magic stuff.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Gordon and Fournier both playing for Orlando tonite.
Interesting on Gordon since all reports have the Magic trading him to someone and he publicly made it known he wants to go as well. Only bad things can happen tonight. Risk vs Reward. I don’t get it.
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
8,156
From my side 2 FRP or 1 FRP + Grant Williams is a no brainer for the Celtics. I'd even include a heavily protected second FRP (with Williams or a 3rd FRP) that converts to 2X2nd rounders or something if it doesn't convey. I'm less thrilled with including Romeo or Nesmith.
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
10,016
Interesting on Gordon since all reports have the Magic trading him to someone and he publicly made it known he wants to go as well. Only bad things can happen tonight. Risk vs Reward. I don’t get it.
Even more surprising: Magic lead the Suns by one with 27 seconds left -- in Phoenix.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
I largely agree but for a slightly different reason. The constraint to me is not to sell picks now that we will need to turn Kemba into a 3rd star. I would prefer a draft day trade of '21 #1 and '22 #1 than give up the '21 #1 and '23 #1 now. '21 #1 will be less valuable on draft day, but it is worth it to save assets we hopefully will need in the future.
What? You think Cade Cunningham will be less valuable on draft day? ;)
 

Cesar Crespo

79
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
21,588
What? You think Cade Cunningham will be less valuable on draft day? ;)
He's saying our 1st round pick will be worth less on the draft than trading it right now. I'm not sure that's entirely true given the play in game. The C's winning the lottery would be an acceptable outcome for this year.

I wonder if the C's would trade or keep the pick in that long shot scenario.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
12,678
The C's winning the lottery would be an acceptable outcome for this year. ... I wonder if the C's would trade or keep the pick in that long shot scenario.
If you had Doncic sitting on the board in front of you, do you trade him because you already have the JayCrew? If the season did play out that way adding the 6’8” three level scorer and four position defender that’s also the offensive QB, you joyfully grab him and watch the JayCrew rain death on opponents from all the open shots that CC Baller gets them.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,111
Santa Monica
That's a shame. Delon Wright is a player that could help the Celtics. Looks like he didn't cost much. (2) 2nds and salary
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,111
Santa Monica
Imagine having a 6-foot-5 point guard.
That can play good defense, distribute, & rebound. We could push a lot of bench players back to where they belong (the deep bench)

I'd call him Marcus Smart-lite, but "2021" Smart doesn't defend all that great.

Man, I gave Danny & Co way too much credit last Fall. Thought they would have added some role-playing veterans along the way this season.
 

BigSoxFan

Member
SoSH Member
May 31, 2007
47,083
I feel like a no action day will lead to more criticism today than Danny’s ever faced.

Get it done, Theo.
 

128

Member
SoSH Member
May 4, 2019
10,016
I feel like a no action day will lead to more criticism today than Danny’s ever faced.

Get it done, Theo.
Danny hasn't made a deadline trade since acquiring Isaiah Thomas, which was a significant deal. How long has it been since he made a minor deal?