MLB suspends Trevor Bauer for 2 years with no pay

HomeRunBaker

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I've said for awhile now too that saying she was in and out of unconsciousness is going to be very tough to prove. Further, even if she can prove it, she won't be able to prove that he knew she was unconscious or that anything happened during that time. It's a horrible situation for a victim and I'm going to be honest, my non-lawyer impression here is that Bauer has a pretty easy case to prove given her text messages. They set up a safe word, he never heard the safe word nor she did say she said it. We've all seen the texts where after the first encounter, she said she wanted even more and how much she enjoyed it, especially "going out." All of that puts a greater burden on the prosecution to prove Bauer was doing anything other than a consensual act. Maybe I'm wrong here but I think he walks away unscathed from this in the courts. His baseball career is probably over, though, which is the really interesting thing here considering we have players now who physically beat wives/girlfriends or threatened to kill them where there was absolutely no ambiguity or argument. I mean, Domingo German beat his wife in front of the other baseball players and he's still playing. Trevor Bauer beat a young woman and as thin as his argument might be, it's better than any of the other shitheads.

Unless some team, like a Steve Cohen Mets, decides that "everyone deserves a second chance," it'll be tough for Bauer to play again. I don't look forward to the videos of Bauer donating to food banks and doing good deeds for a year.
I would be shocked if he was effectively prosecuted based on what we know. I don’t expect his career to be over either with his team pressing the “all he did was what she asked” narrative to MLB.
 

Preacher

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I guess I can find the sense in no restraining order, but the idea that this warranted unlimited consent seems weird to me. So a peep can get a woman to agree to s and m, set up a safe word, and then he can knock her out and do anything and there was consent? Seems like a real proble
.
You can’t consent if your unconscious and you can’t consent in advance to sexual activity while you’re unconscious at a future time. As soon as you lose consciousness, consent is withdrawn. Now, the defense is having a reasonable mistake of fact that the person was still conscious. The blurry line is when alcohol is involved and the victim does not remember events so assumes they were unconscious, asleep, or otherwise unaware of the sexual contact/act but in reality the person is just blacked out from alcohol and still conscious and functioning (and thus able to make decisions and manifest consent or lack of consent).
 

HomeRunBaker

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You can’t consent if your unconscious and you can’t consent in advance to sexual activity while you’re unconscious at a future time. As soon as you lose consciousness, consent is withdrawn. Now, the defense is having a reasonable mistake of fact that the person was still conscious. The blurry line is when alcohol is involved and the victim does not remember events so assumes they were unconscious, asleep, or otherwise unaware of the sexual contact/act but in reality the person is just blacked out from alcohol and still conscious and functioning (and thus able to make decisions and manifest consent or lack of consent).
What is the law to consenting to be choked unconscious? I’m not being obtuse I’m interested in knowing as this is crucial information based on the texts.
 

Preacher

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What is the law to consenting to be choked unconscious? I’m not being obtuse I’m interested in knowing as this is crucial information based on the texts.
You can’t consent to acts that constitute a means likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm. So, there’s certainly a choking element that can be part of what I would consider “rough sex.” Choking (and technically, we’re really talking strangulation) comes in a variety of fashions from light pressure to something that can cause death. You can’t consent to being killed or seriously injured. Like, I can’t tell you I want you to stab me multiple times in the torso because I think it would be sexually gratifying. It’s too dangerous and something that could cause me death or serious permanent injuries. I mean, I can tell you that I want you to do it but it doesn’t give you a legal justification to do so. Contrast that with an individual requesting to be scratched during sex.

I would argue that being strangled to the point of unconsciousness is a means likely to cause death or grevious bodily harm and thus consent (or mistake of fact as to you consent) is not a valid defense. Sometimes, the strangling occurs which causes the victim to withdraw consent (in situations where this isn’t discussed in advance or where the victim experiences too much pressure/pain) and that can get added to the chargesheet as a separate assault in addition to the sexual assault (assuming the sexual act continues after the withdrawn consent).
 

HomeRunBaker

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You can’t consent to acts that constitute a means likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm. So, there’s certainly a choking element that can be part of what I would consider “rough sex.” Choking (and technically, we’re really talking strangulation) comes in a variety of fashions from light pressure to something that can cause death. You can’t consent to being killed or seriously injured. Like, I can’t tell you I want you to stab me multiple times in the torso because I think it would be sexually gratifying. It’s too dangerous and something that could cause me death or serious permanent injuries. I mean, I can tell you that I want you to do it but it doesn’t give you a legal justification to do so. Contrast that with an individual requesting to be scratched during sex.

I would argue that being strangled to the point of unconsciousness is a means likely to cause death or grevious bodily harm and thus consent (or mistake of fact as to you consent) is not a valid defense. Sometimes, the strangling occurs which causes the victim to withdraw consent (in situations where this isn’t discussed in advance or where the victim experiences too much pressure/pain) and that can get added to the chargesheet as a separate assault in addition to the sexual assault (assuming the sexual act continues after the withdrawn consent).
Thank you. Is there a precedent ruling for sexual asphyxia gone wrong? If what you’re saying is correct, I’m not doubting only probing to learn, wouldn’t that mean that any form of this act is not legally considered consent?
 

Preacher

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Thank you. Is there a precedent ruling for sexual asphyxia gone wrong? If what you’re saying is correct, I’m not doubting only probing to learn, wouldn’t that mean that any form of this act is not legally considered consent?
To some extent, you’re splitting hairs when it comes to simple negligence, gross negligence, wanton disregard, or willful misconduct. And I’m not sure how California comes down on the differences here. But if you agree to strangulation based on your partner’s proclivity, you’re taking some risk on yourself that you don’t go too far. You could face prosecution, you may successfully defend yourself, but it’s still a risk and a lot of it comes down to what the reasonably prudent person would have done in your situation given the facts and circumstances surrounding the event. I think a lot of people in these situations, even if the act goes past what is consented, do not report. So, legally consenting to something and consenting to something where you won’t report it is the real difference here.

Like, we could agree to do some MMA style sparing, but if you keep choking me or punching me after I passed out and I’m obviously passed out, you could be prosecuted, especially if I died. Now, presumably, your defense is, you didn’t know I was unconscious so the beating continued. But if you ignored my obvious signs of unconsciousness and continued the fight, you could be prosecuted if I decided I wanted to report you for beating excessively after I was unconscious. Of course, maybe I’m embarrassed you beat me so badly and I say nothing and go to the hospital and receive treatment for my injuries and just say, yeah, I was doing some MMA training and I’m not very good.
 

opes

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I was thinking about this today, and I wonder 2 things: How much jail time will he get, and/or is his career over? It sounds like the vast majority of the dodgers players do not want him back under any circumstance.
 

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Red(s)HawksFan

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Wow. And it doesn't count "time served" already. Probably is the effective end of his career. Certainly the end of his time in Los Angeles since the suspension is longer than his remaining contract.
 

Ed Hillel

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Chapman got 30 games for firing a shotgun next to his wife's head, as I recall. I don't want to defend Bauer, but this seems excessive. It's like the MLB is stepping in and saying the justice system got it wrong so they'll make up for it.

I'll say one thing, this sure puts pressure on Goodell regarding Watson...
 

jsinger121

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The union will be taking this to an arbitrator for sure. He’s not getting two years when the criminal charges were already dropped. This is massive overstep by MLB.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Chapman got 30 games for firing a shotgun next to his wife's head, as I recall. I don't want to defend Bauer, but this seems excessive. It's like the MLB is stepping in and saying the justice system got it wrong so they'll make up for it.

I'll say one thing, this sure puts pressure on Goodell regarding Watson...
Per PeteAbe, this is the first suspension under the policy that wasn't negotiated by both sides. I wonder if that plays a role in the discrepancy with past suspension lengths.

Gotta wonder what their investigation turned up for them to go this harsh.
 

Marciano490

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The union will be taking this to an arbitrator for sure. He’s not getting two years when the criminal charges were already dropped. This is massive overstep by MLB.
I’m sure the owners don’t mind the union going to bat for the unlikeable asshole who broke a woman’s skull during sex.
 

cromulence

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Chapman got 30 games for firing a shotgun next to his wife's head, as I recall. I don't want to defend Bauer, but this seems excessive. It's like the MLB is stepping in and saying the justice system got it wrong so they'll make up for it.

I'll say one thing, this sure puts pressure on Goodell regarding Watson...
Your recollection is off when it comes to the shotgun and shooting it next to his wife's head (not that the rest of it is any good):

"Chapman's girlfriend alleged that he choked her after an argument over some text messages on his phone. Chapman then went out to a detached garage on his property and fired eight shots from a handgun, one of which flew through a window and into an open field, according to police reports."
 

Cesar Crespo

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But it does increase the odds that Bauer wins the appeal, no?
I'm not sure why. Especially if it's related to conduct determinetal to the league.

Not that hard to make a case that having Trevor Bauer playing MLB games is extremely bad for the MLB.
 

Marciano490

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But it does increase the odds that Bauer wins the appeal, no?
Either way, it’s a PR win for the owners. It’s actually pretty damn savvy, the more I think about it. Guess that’s why they’re billionaires.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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This is the first time I can remember a pro sports league suspending a player for conduct and me thinking they got it right
 

Gdiguy

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There's also the other incident in Ohio (where another woman sought a protective order), which also makes it distinct from Chapman

Per PeteAbe, this is the first suspension under the policy that wasn't negotiated by both sides. I wonder if that plays a role in the discrepancy with past suspension lengths.

Gotta wonder what their investigation turned up for them to go this harsh.
But yeah, I think this is a big part of it too - not only his he not apologetic, he's literally suiting the women who accused him. If MLB thinks those allegations are true, that's a huge difference

I mean from his Wikipedia page alone you get some wonderful nuggets like

In January 2019, Bauer responded to a female college student who referred to him as her "least favorite person in all of sports" by tweeting at her over the course of 12 hours and encouraging his followers to partake as well.[112]
MLB may just want him gone.
 

axx

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I'm not sure why. Especially if it's related to conduct determinetal to the league.
If the arbitrator thinks it's too much. Seems pretty obvious that the Dodgers don't want him back (for reasons unrelated to the case, I don't think he's very popular with teammates) and want the suspension to last the remainder of his contract. And don't want to cut him either since they'd be on the hook.
 

Cesar Crespo

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If the arbitrator thinks it's too much. Seems pretty obvious that the Dodgers don't want him back (for reasons unrelated to the case, I don't think he's very popular with teammates) and want the suspension to last the remainder of his contract. And don't want to cut him either since they'd be on the hook.
I was under the impression that he is unpopular with his teammates (and players in general) because of this situation. Is that not the case?

What if no one in the league wants to play with him? He's toxic. Having him associated to your brand in 2022 is bad for business. I doubt any player on any team would want to be associated with Trevor Bauer. No good can come out of it and it would be a huge distraction.

I know plenty of people who don't follow sports at all and cringe at the name of Trevor Bauer. And a lot of it is because he's unapologietc and brash.
 

opes

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Chapman got 30 games for firing a shotgun next to his wife's head, as I recall. I don't want to defend Bauer, but this seems excessive. It's like the MLB is stepping in and saying the justice system got it wrong so they'll make up for it.

I'll say one thing, this sure puts pressure on Goodell regarding Watson...
Its an example. And rightfully so.
 

DeadlySplitter

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Yeah, my first thought is this rather conveniently lines up with the remainder of his Dodgers contract.
 

NJ_Sox_Fan

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I wonder if it was someone other than Bauer who regularly rips Manfred, how long he would have gotten.
 

Red(s)HawksFan

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Him being a douchebag isn't grounds for letting the Dodgers essentially void his contract though.
So the concern is that the Dodgers are getting a break? Would it be better if they stayed on the hook for the contract but the money went to DV/abuse-related charities?
 

EvilEmpire

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It seems a very strange thought process to prefer the Dodgers not get a financial break than see MLB do the right thing and come down hard on horrific behavior.
 

Mueller's Twin Grannies

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Those "in the know" are saying MLB is going to do everything possible to make sure this sticks. Methinks there is at least a small percentage of CYA going on here, too, like the investigation found stuff that had been covered up or hidden from them about his past that make Bauer just radioactive and will further tarnish MLB if it gets out. If not, the league is basically giving him the death penalty for off-the-field stuff, which is a little odd in light of no criminal charges being filed.
 
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Sad Sam Jones

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Based on current public knowledge, it seems like a bit of an overreach. I guess it's better than MLB's past approach, though… as far as I can tell, Josh Lueke missed some playing time in the minors in 2009 while he was incarcerated and pleading down to avoid a rape conviction, but never received any suspension (he lied through the whole process, never seemed to show any public remorse and bitched about fans constantly chanting "rapist" at him). Then Matt Bush lost four seasons while he was serving a 39 month sentence for DUI with great bodily injury. However, MLB seemed to use his prison time as the only form of suspension... his only suspension I could turn up was at the beginning of his pro career for a bar fight.
 

EvilEmpire

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MLB and the MLBPA announced a domestic violence policy in August 2015, so that puts Lueke outside the scope of that, and may actually been one of probably many events that pushed them towards coming up with a policy.

Not that MLB has ever covered itself in glory when dealing with such things.
 

Cesar Crespo

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So the concern is that the Dodgers are getting a break? Would it be better if they stayed on the hook for the contract but the money went to DV/abuse-related charities?
It would be great if the Dodgers donated his salaries to a charity but I'd rather the Dodgers get a break than Bauer be paid.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Those "in the know" are saying MLB is going to do everything possible to make sure this sticks. Methinks there is at least a small percentage of CYA going on here, too, like the investigation found stuff that had been covered up or hidden from them about his past that make Bauer just radioactive and will further tarnish MLB if it gets out. If not, the league is basically giving him the death penalty for off-the-field stuff, which is a little odd in light of no criminal charges being filed.
I don't see why it matters if there were no criminal charges or what he did was legal or illegal if they are trying to protect the brand image. Bauer already is radioactive. The off field stuff is really bad.

I could see the Dodgers forced to pay him but I doubt Bauer ever pitches for the MLB again.
 

Tokyo Sox

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Bauer has been reinstated after a neutral arbitrator reduced his suspension to 194 games, down from 324 games. He'll miss the first 50 games next season and is then eligible to return:

https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2022-12-22/trevor-bauer-suspension-reduced-dodgers-rob-manfred
Trevor Bauer’s two-year suspension from Major League Baseball was reduced from 324 games to 194 games on Thursday, meaning the Dodgers will have to decide whether to pay him or release him.

The original suspension, the longest ever issued for violation of baseball’s policy on sexual assault and domestic violence, was shortened by an arbitration panel that had considered Bauer’s appeal since May.

“After an exhaustive review of the available evidence the neutral arbitrator upheld an unpaid suspension of 194 games, Major League Baseball said in a statement. “As part of the decision, the arbitrator reinstated Mr. Bauer effectively immediately, with a loss of pay covering the 144 games he was suspended during the 2022 season. In addition, the arbitrator docked Bauer’s salary for the first 50 games of the 2023 season (i.e., the period covering March 30, 2023 to May 23, 2023). While we believe a longer suspension was warranted, MLB will abide by the neutral arbitrator’s decision, which upholds baseball’s longest-ever active player suspension for sexual assault or domestic violence.
I have to think the Dodgers will release him. Wouldn't surprise me if he ends up out here if no MLB teams will touch him, a la Roberto Osuna.