Mayo: Season 1

tims4wins

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joe dokes

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Besides the obvious inexperience, the only other thing I “question” right now is whether he is just a little too cheerful / nice.
That's fair. I'm guessing/hoping that he learned something watching BB-- that being nice publicly makes the job a lot easier -- but he can still turn the screws when necessary, and not let the inmates run the asylum, as they say.
 

BaseballJones

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That's fair. I'm guessing/hoping that he learned something watching BB-- that being nice publicly makes the job a lot easier -- but he can still turn the screws when necessary, and not let the inmates run the asylum, as they say.
I'm willing to bet he can do this part of the job pretty well. I think he will run the organization well. For me what I'm "concerned" about is his in-game decision-making. Is he up to the task in the heat of the battle?
 

tims4wins

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That's fair. I'm guessing/hoping that he learned something watching BB-- that being nice publicly makes the job a lot easier -- but he can still turn the screws when necessary, and not let the inmates run the asylum, as they say.
Yeah hopefully he did learn something from BB about this. I think there is a way to handle the media nicer than BB while still protecting individual players and the team as a whole, as well as what he sees as valuable information.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Mayo walking back his “burn some cash” comments is Full Throttle 2.0

Perhaps it’s just the stark difference between BB and the new regime but the over exuberance and interactions with the press have been slightly cringey thus far
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Mayo walking back his “burn some cash” comments is Full Throttle 2.0

Perhaps it’s just the stark difference between BB and the new regime but the over exuberance and interactions with the press have been slightly cringey thus far
Yeah that's a big whiff. Mayo is going to have to learn to be more careful with his words. I understand his exuberance but he's got to roll it back. Not a great look.
 

Dave Stapleton

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Yeah that's a big whiff. Mayo is going to have to learn to be more careful with his words. I understand his exuberance but he's got to roll it back. Not a great look.
This all makes me a bit nervous. Feel like Krafts are exerting a bit more influence on everything than anyone wants to believe. I like SJH am fearful there are a few too many similarities to the Parcells to Carroll transition.

This has all the hallmarks of Mayo being pulled into Jonathan’s office for a discussion.
 

Bowhemian

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The dude has been head coach for what, a couple months? Maybe some of you guys should give him some time to figure things out.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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The dude has been head coach for what, a couple months? Maybe some of you guys should give him some time to figure things out.
He's been a member of the organization since 2008. He's been a coach here for the last 5 years. No one wants or expects him to be BB 2.0 but he should also be savvy enough by now not to stick his foot in his mouth. He's already had to "qualify" a few statements and it's not even March.
 

lexrageorge

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He's been a member of the organization since 2008. He's been a coach here for the last 5 years. No one wants or expects him to be BB 2.0 but he should also be savvy enough by now not to stick his foot in his mouth. He's already had to "qualify" a few statements and it's not even March.
Well, he's only had to qualify one, and his backtracking was probably more due to the fact that Wolf is going to be the major decision maker on free agent signings than an indication that Kraft is planning to cheap out. Or that May is in over his head.
 
Apr 7, 2006
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The breathless concern over Mayo signaling to FAs and agents that New England is open for business and worth a look is fucking insane. Maybe we take a beat and not get all hot and bothered about Mayo using the word "burn." I mean, Jesus.
 

Silverdude2167

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Filing a lot of this under "will never be satisfied"
Half the posters got to relentlessly bash BB for half the season till he was let go, now the other half who defended BB get their chance to bash the new guy. It is the circle of life. Those who wanted BB to stay (myself included) are watching very closely hoping (or not) that we were wrong.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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The breathless concern over Mayo signaling to FAs and agents that New England is open for business and worth a look is fucking insane. Maybe we take a beat and not get all hot and bothered about Mayo using the word "burn." I mean, Jesus.
No, that's not the issue here. Mayo said they were open for business and then had to walk it back, presumably because someone in ownership or Wolf told him what he was saying either wasn't true or was exaggerated. Perhaps the Pats are not as open for business as we think.

This is a totally new regime and we are all looking to see if they are capable of working together. The messaging there was clumsy at best.

I am hoping Mayo is a good coach and he and Wolf can put together a winner. We're all learning how these guys communicate and are commenting on that. Some of us of a certain vintage are struck by initial similarities to Pete Carroll's first days here ("Pumped and jacked!"). Mayo, like Carroll, seems to enjoy talking a lot and being exuberant. We are all hoping Mayo has a more successful run in New England than Carroll did.
 

naclone

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No, that's not the issue here. Mayo said they were open for business and then had to walk it back, presumably because someone in ownership or Wolf told him what he was saying either wasn't true or was exaggerated. Perhaps the Pats are not as open for business as we think.
Or Onwenu and Duggar upped their asking price after Mayo said they were burning cash and Wolf asked him kindly to not make his job any harder. You can be open for business and not want to overpay everybody for no reason.
 

Tony C

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What a "walkback!" whew...dodged a bullet there of free agents potentially expressing interest.
...

I am hoping Mayo is a good coach and he and Wolf can put together a winner. We're all learning how these guys communicate and are commenting on that. Some of us of a certain vintage are struck by initial similarities to Pete Carroll's first days here ("Pumped and jacked!"). Mayo, like Carroll, seems to enjoy talking a lot and being exuberant. We are all hoping Mayo has a more successful run in New England than Carroll did.
Seems like Carroll should be more of a cautionary tale for NE fans than for Mayo. Turns out he was an excellent coach who was run out of town by the Borges crew for silly reasons like being "pumped". NE obviously did more than ok post-Carroll, but would hardly call Mayo doing something resembling Pete a serious issue.
 

Dave Stapleton

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What a "walkback!" whew...dodged a bullet there of free agents potentially expressing interest.

Seems like Carroll should be more of a cautionary tale for NE fans than for Mayo. Turns out he was an excellent coach who was run out of town by the Borges crew for silly reasons like being "pumped". NE obviously did more than ok post-Carroll, but would hardly call Mayo doing something resembling Pete a serious issue.
I don’t want to speak for SJH but my points have been more about the Krafts than Mayo. I am on the record as saying that they krafts are very interested in control and their image. I am not bashing anyone just feeling a bit uneasy.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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What a "walkback!" whew...dodged a bullet there of free agents potentially expressing interest.

Seems like Carroll should be more of a cautionary tale for NE fans than for Mayo. Turns out he was an excellent coach who was run out of town by the Borges crew for silly reasons like being "pumped". NE obviously did more than ok post-Carroll, but would hardly call Mayo doing something resembling Pete a serious issue.
Carroll was not an excellent coach in New England. The ineptitude of Bobby Grier certainly didn’t help but Carroll’s teams underperformed and got worse each year he was with the team. The stories from guys like McGinest and others about the lack of respect (and blatant insubordination) Carroll had from the locker room were telling.

Maybe it was just inheriting a group of Parcells guys who were used to a hard ass approach but the team didn’t respond to his player friendly cheerleader type approach.
 

joe dokes

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Some of us of a certain vintage are struck by initial similarities to Pete Carroll's first days here ("Pumped and jacked!"). Mayo, like Carroll, seems to enjoy talking a lot and being exuberant. We are all hoping Mayo has a more successful run in New England than Carroll did.
And maybe Pete Carroll was just a man ahead of his time and we should stop dwelling on what happened 890 fucktillion years ago. *

*in football years.
 

Hoya81

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Carroll was not an excellent coach in New England. The ineptitude of Bobby Grier certainly didn’t help but Carroll’s teams underperformed and got worse each year he was with the team. The stories from guys like McGinest and others about the lack of respect (and blatant insubordination) Carroll had from the locker room were telling.

Maybe it was just inheriting a group of Parcells guys who were used to a hard ass approach but the team didn’t respond to his player friendly cheerleader type approach.
They also had awful injury luck in those years. Glenn missed 15 games across 3 seasons, Martin got hurt and missed the end of the ‘97 season/playoffs, McGinest was basically a part-time player in ‘98 while Bledsoe and Ted Johnson got hurt down the stretch and missed the playoffs. And that’s before you get the fluke Robert Edwards injury at the Pro Bowl.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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They also had awful injury luck in those years. Glenn missed 15 games across 3 seasons, Martin got hurt and missed the end of the ‘97 season/playoffs, McGinest was basically a part-time player in ‘98 while Bledsoe and Ted Johnson got hurt down the stretch and missed the playoffs. And that’s before you get the fluke Robert Edwards injury at the Pro Bowl.
You’re not wrong about the injuries but how many guys who played for both Carroll/Belichick or Carroll/Parcells (or all 3) had their best years under Carroll and his staff? Milloy is the only one I can think of.
Grier was a horrible personnel guy in retrospect but Carroll didn’t do much of anything to develop talent and his offensive scheme/staff left a lot to be desired. Even on defense, they didn’t really seem to know what to do with Brandon Mitchell or Tebucky Jones, and didn’t bother to try to develop Greg Spires (who had a nice career elsewhere). How much of that was on Carroll or Sidwell, who knows. But McGinest and a few other veterans underperformed under Pete and for a defensive guru and players coach, not a single guy who came into the organization while he was there became a core member of the first few Super Bowl wins (the aforementioned Mitchell and Jones did of course have key plays on the 2001 team).

I don’t think he was terrible and put more of the blame on Grier, but his main strengths - teaching and motivation - seemed to get refined significantly at USC.
 

Hoya81

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You’re not wrong about the injuries but how many guys who played for both Carroll/Belichick or Carroll/Parcells (or all 3) had their best years under Carroll and his staff? Milloy is the only one I can think of.
Grier was a horrible personnel guy in retrospect but Carroll didn’t do much of anything to develop talent and his offensive scheme/staff left a lot to be desired. Even on defense, they didn’t really seem to know what to do with Brandon Mitchell or Tebucky Jones, and didn’t bother to try to develop Greg Spires (who had a nice career elsewhere). How much of that was on Carroll or Sidwell, who knows. But McGinest and a few other veterans underperformed under Pete and for a defensive guru and players coach, not a single guy who came into the organization while he was there became a core member of the first few Super Bowl wins (the aforementioned Mitchell and Jones did of course have key plays on the 2001 team).

I don’t think he was terrible and put more of the blame on Grier, but his main strengths - teaching and motivation - seemed to get refined significantly at USC.
To be fair, not many. Maybe not their best years, but Martin ran for nearly 1200 yards in 13 games and Bledsoe had his last really good season with the Pats in '97, with a career high in TD passes. Law was 1st team All-Pro in '98 and came in 3rd for Defensive Player of the Year. Glenn made his only Pro Bowl in '99.

Grier did have a pretty decent draft in '99, drafting Woody and Kevin Faulk. Katzenmoyer would have been good if he didn't get hurt!
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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What a "walkback!" whew...dodged a bullet there of free agents potentially expressing interest.

Seems like Carroll should be more of a cautionary tale for NE fans than for Mayo. Turns out he was an excellent coach who was run out of town by the Borges crew for silly reasons like being "pumped". NE obviously did more than ok post-Carroll, but would hardly call Mayo doing something resembling Pete a serious issue.
Carroll was a significantly different and better coach when he came back to the NFL with Seattle after his very long stint at USC.

He was in no way a good coach during his NYJ/NEP years, and to his credit he used his time away from the NFL to become a better one.
 

tims4wins

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Carroll was a significantly different and better coach when he came back to the NFL with Seattle after his very long stint at USC.

He was in no way a good coach during his NYJ/NEP years, and to his credit he used his time away from the NFL to become a better one.
That, and even after his USC days, he was never going to be a good fit for an east coast market team.

Edit: I've written this before, but one of the great what-ifs of the last 25 years: what if Vinatieri doesn't miss a pair of last minute field goals in 1999 and the Pats finish 10-6?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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That, and even after his USC days, he was never going to be a good fit for an east coast market team.

Edit: I've written this before, but one of the great what-ifs of the last 25 years: what if Vinatieri doesn't miss a pair of last minute field goals in 1999 and the Pats finish 10-6?
They were still edging towards cap hell for 2000. The crash likely would have come anyway. When BB got there, they were something like $53 million over the cap and that was with only 38 players under contract. For 2000 they had to keep players on the roster they would have preferred to cut because the cap hits were too high to cut them.

The team was a mess.
 

tims4wins

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They were still edging towards cap hell for 2000. The crash likely would have come anyway. When BB got there, they were something like $53 million over the cap and that was with only 38 players under contract. For 2000 they had to keep players on the roster they would have preferred to cut because the cap hits were too high to cut them.

The team was a mess.
Oh totally agree they would have been awful in 2000 either way. But if Pete was still the HC, that shifts the timeline on everything - BB, TB12, etc. It creates a completely alternate universe in which both guys likely end up elsewhere. All because Vinatieri missed 32 and 33 yard field goals.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Oh totally agree they would have been awful in 2000. But if Pete was still the HC, that shifts the timeline on everything - BB, TB12, etc. It creates a completely alternate universe in which both guys likely end up elsewhere. All because Vinatieri missed 32 and 33 yard field goals.
So if history repeats itself, you're saying we can expect Chad Ryland to hit a couple of Super Bowl winners?
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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I like it. He probably would have beat the two schmucks we had given a full preseason. At the very least this keeps him around through training camp to see if he can be a cheap backup.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Andy Brickley's potty mouth
He'll need to find his voice because it's a balance, you also need guys to respect you and you can't be everyone's friend. Maybe he plays good cop/bad cop with Wolfe, but that seems unsustainable.
 

tims4wins

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He'll need to find his voice because it's a balance, you also need guys to respect you and you can't be everyone's friend. Maybe he plays good cop/bad cop with Wolfe, but that seems unsustainable.
I did call out a concern early on that he is potentially too nice / soft.
 

moondog80

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It's great to be a buddy, but what happens when a player fucks up and needs to be reamed out?

That is what Mayo must learn. This will undoubtedly be a bumpy ride at times.
Agree that a coach can't always be a best friend any more than a parent can, but Mayo's been a coach for years. Just because he had a positive interaction with a guy he was trying to recruit doesn't mean he doesn't also know how to buckle down when needed.
 

Silverdude2167

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I have faith that Mayo will be able to flip the switch.

The guy was the QB of the defense for years, I am sure he went off on guys many times over the years.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Agree that a coach can't always be a best friend any more than a parent can, but Mayo's been a coach for years. Just because he had a positive interaction with a guy he was trying to recruit doesn't mean he doesn't also know how to buckle down when needed.
A buddy buddy coach can certainly be successful for a while, look at Arians. Carroll was a pushover in NE as well.

It's what happens after a few years that I'm interested in seeing.
 

Justthetippett

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The future of NFL coaches is much more in the direction of Mayo (as reported here), McDaniel, McVay, etc. Hell, even Andy Reid is not a disciplinarian. I'm looking forward to it. The only question I really care about with Mayo is can he gameplan and manage.
 

lexrageorge

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Huge difference between meeting people in the building during the early part of the offseason, and when the actual practices start in anger in July. Trying to be someone he's not would be far worse than being friendly to a player's family.