Mayo: Season 1

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Anybody going to chime in on how he’s inexperienced and has never called special teams plays before? Or maybe he’s never worked one on one with a Kicker?

I hope not, but that’s how some of y’all sound when talking about the OC candidates. It’s good stuff.

Excited that Mayo is picking his team.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Anybody going to chime in on how he’s inexperienced and has never called special teams plays before? Or maybe he’s never worked one on one with a Kicker?

I hope not, but that’s how some of y’all sound when talking about the OC candidates. It’s good stuff.

Excited that Mayo is picking his team.
The stakes are just a bit different in ST coordinator and the guy who will presumably need to rebuild an offense and develop a franchise QB
 

BigJimEd

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I know little to nothing about Springer but happy to have him.


Troy Brown not wearing Pats gear at Senior Bowl for what it is worth.

But there was one meaningful difference between Brown and the other coaches tapped to work here.

Brown was the only coach working at the Senior Bowl who didn’t wear team gear issued by their employer. Brown, who was a New England Patriots legend as a player and has worked as an assistant coach for the team since 2020, instead wore gear highlighting the Senior Bowl.

That adds to speculation that he may not return to the Patriots. Jerod Mayo is spending time this week filling out his coaching staff and it’s unclear whether Brown has been told where he stands.
 

Cellar-Door

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Anybody going to chime in on how he’s inexperienced and has never called special teams plays before? Or maybe he’s never worked one on one with a Kicker?

I hope not, but that’s how some of y’all sound when talking about the OC candidates. It’s good stuff.

Excited that Mayo is picking his team.
He did work 1 on 1 with Matt Gay supposedly, and is credited with helping him.

As to the rest... are you really upset that people wonder about OC candidates who haven't done the two hardest things that an OC does? Neither of those things is disqualifying for an OC, but they are generally important parts of the job, or at least the job as it is likely to be constituted for the Patriots.
 

Al Zarilla

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Anybody going to chime in on how he’s inexperienced and has never called special teams plays before? Or maybe he’s never worked one on one with a Kicker?

I hope not, but that’s how some of y’all sound when talking about the OC candidates. It’s good stuff.

Excited that Mayo is picking his team.
I don't know, there are going to be a lot of inexperienced people from Mayo on down, and a lot of them may also be not good.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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I don't know, there are going to be a lot of inexperienced people from Mayo on down, and a lot of them may also be not good.
They could be awful, they could be great. Nobody knows yet.

He did work 1 on 1 with Matt Gay supposedly, and is credited with helping him.

As to the rest... are you really upset that people wonder about OC candidates who haven't done the two hardest things that an OC does? Neither of those things is disqualifying for an OC, but they are generally important parts of the job, or at least the job as it is likely to be constituted for the Patriots.
I’m more upset that people are damning these potential candidates for lack of experience. I’m sorry, an assumed lack of experience because none of us know what any of these guys have actually done day in, day out. To be uninspired by any of these guys is some next level entitlement. The only thing that would be uninspiring would be to bring in someone who has already done it here McD, BOB. They are actively looking for different voices. It’s a sign that they fully understand what went on here last year and it won’t be tolerated. I’m on board so far. Some of you will argue that someone like Caley isn’t different. I’ll counteract that with, he left for a reason. Awesome if it’s a familiar face, but that face may not be spouting the same narrative as when they were in a lower position.
 

Al Zarilla

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They could be awful, they could be great. Nobody knows yet.



I’m more upset that people are damning these potential candidates for lack of experience. I’m sorry, an assumed lack of experience because none of us know what any of these guys have actually done day in, day out. To be uninspired by any of these guys is some next level entitlement. The only thing that would be uninspiring would be to bring in someone who has already done it here McD, BOB. They are actively looking for different voices. It’s a sign that they fully understand what went on here last year and it won’t be tolerated. I’m on board so far. Some of you will argue that someone like Caley isn’t different. I’ll counteract that with, he left for a reason. Awesome if it’s a familiar face, but that face may not be spouting the same narrative as when they were in a lower position.
For me, if my team has a rookie head coach, I want as much experience around him as I can get. I wouldn’t go so far as to say the blind leading the blind, but the inexperienced leading the inexperienced doesn’t install much confidence. We’re in the same conference with the Chiefs who have Reid, Spags and a lot of other staff with years of coaching experience. Two Harbaughs again (John didn’t shine last Sunday, I know), Tomlin, Zac Taylor, McDaniel…Teams with these guys are all better off for the foreseeable future. Now we see possible ridiculing by people around the league that even hiring into the Patriots system is a joke. I think we’re in for some lean years.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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For me, if my team has a rookie head coach, I want as much experience around him as I can get. I wouldn’t go so far as to say the blind leading the blind, but the inexperienced leading the inexperienced doesn’t install much confidence. We’re in the same conference with the Chiefs who have Reid, Spags and a lot of other staff with years of coaching experience. Two Harbaughs again (John didn’t shine last Sunday, I know), Tomlin, Zac Taylor, McDaniel…Teams with these guys are all better off for the foreseeable future. Now we see possible ridiculing by people around the league that even hiring into the Patriots system is a joke. I think we’re in for some lean years.
I understand wanting experience or a perceived sure-thing but that’s not really in the cards I don’t think. I look at what the Texans did this year with a fairly inexperienced staff and I can see the Pats in a similar trajectory. The biggest thing they had going into last year that we don’t is stability at LT. That is actually a rather large part that we’re currently missing. I also don’t put much into the mediots saying this is a bad gig.
 

DJnVa

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For me, if my team has a rookie head coach, I want as much experience around him as I can get.
But no one mentioned the Texans, where the top 3 coaches and QB are all in their first years in those roles.

HC: Demeco Ryans: 39 years old, 1st year as HC
OC: Bobby Slowik: 36 years old, 1st year as OC
DC: Matt Burke, 46 years old, 1st year as DC
QB: CJ Stroud, rookie
 

Al Zarilla

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Good points about the Texans. Early returns, they did strike gold with their quarterback draft and head coach hire. We don’t know anything in those two areas yet. Big wait and see for me with the Pats.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Good points about the Texans. Early returns, they did strike gold with their quarterback draft and head coach hire. We don’t know anything in those two areas yet. Big wait and see for me with the Pats.
Having Tunsil and the Watson haul were key things the Pats don’t have - although arguably they have a better overall roster than the 2023 Texans did, just not at a crucial spot (LT)

They are still a good example for going “crap roster” to “competitive playoff contender” thanks to absolutely nailing the QB and finding him solid if unspectacular weapons, and finding a talented coaching staff.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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But no one mentioned the Texans, where the top 3 coaches and QB are all in their first years in those roles.

HC: Demeco Ryans: 39 years old, 1st year as HC
OC: Bobby Slowik: 36 years old, 1st year as OC
DC: Matt Burke, 46 years old, 1st year as DC
QB: CJ Stroud, rookie
Gannon had the same thing in Arizona with 36 and 30 year old coordinators

But not all experience is the same. Slowick being the passing game coordinator for one of the best passing attacks in football coaching under one of the better offensive minds of the last 10 years is more than we can say of (for example) Nick Caley.

I don’t think too many people are concerned with the lack of experience on defense. I think the concern is entrusting broken units (offense and ST) with no actual success in whatever limited role they had prior.
 

lexrageorge

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People are excited about the ST hire? The Rams had the only Special Teams unit that ranked lower than ours by DVOA, and they were one of the worst in history.

View: https://twitter.com/ASchatzNFL/status/1741815312104722658?t=yTSCQ25OsaauztPUm0vU9g&s=19


I don’t know how much of this translates, but I’m not seeing any reasons to be excited if you were unhappy with our ST play this year.
They had 2 placekickers, neither of whom were any good. That's normally on the kicker, not the ST coach (ST coaches cannot turn Scott Sisson into Adam Vinatieri). Seems like the punter was not very good either.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm pretty neutral on Springer, but I don't think overall DVOA of the unit tells you anything about an assistant. Arguably doesn't even say much about the coordinator given impact of talent.

I mean everyone wants Judge out based on last year, but he was also ST coordinator for some great units. Figuring out coach quality and ability to succeed is basically impossible from the outside for non-playcallers
 

Justthetippett

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I'm pretty neutral on Springer, but I don't think overall DVOA of the unit tells you anything about an assistant. Arguably doesn't even say much about the coordinator given impact of talent.

I mean everyone wants Judge out based on last year, but he was also ST coordinator for some great units. Figuring out coach quality and ability to succeed is basically impossible from the outside for non-playcallers
I wanted Judge out because the unit was bad and the reports were that he was a bad influence on the team. (One of the late career head scratchers from BB.) Achord's STs just did not perform. Springer wasn't even the lead STs coach, so I agree, you look more at him than the short term results of LAR's STs.

I do wonder how they evaluate these guys on a coaching staff with limited overall experience. Does Mayo call on some retired ST coach to give him a read?
 

lexrageorge

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Cellar-Door

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View: https://twitter.com/_andrewcallahan/status/1752876316284612958?s=46


I’m guessing “first finalist” instead of “hired” has to do with not being able to bring in the 49ers guys yet.

Maybe a nicer way of saying “we’ll offer you the job if Klint Kubiak doesn’t want it.”
One advantage to interviewing a guy nobody else (including apparently his current team) is even considering for their OC spot is that you can wait as long as you want for the SB teams because no worry he'll go somewhere else.
 

DJnVa

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One advantage to interviewing a guy nobody else (including apparently his current team) is even considering for their OC spot is that you can wait as long as you want for the SB teams because no worry he'll go somewhere else.
Rams are at a different place and may not want a first time OC in charge.

Additionally, Phil Perry seems like a guy that's pretty plugged in and not a sensationalist and thinks Caley should have gotten the job in 2022.

 

tims4wins

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Rams are at a different place and may not want a first time OC in charge.

Additionally, Phil Perry seems like a guy that's pretty plugged in and not a sensationalist and thinks Caley should have gotten the job in 2022.

Is he really saying he should have gotten the job? I read "was a logical choice" as "would have made sense" and not "should have been the guy".
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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One advantage to interviewing a guy nobody else (including apparently his current team) is even considering for their OC spot is that you can wait as long as you want for the SB teams because no worry he'll go somewhere else.
Did Caley hurt you? Maybe he offended a relative? I get you’re not over the moon about him but he checks all the boxes. Been around successful offenses including being in the same room as McVay and Robinson for a year. ALSO is highly thought of by Scarnecchia. Maybe he’s not a QB whisperer, they could still bring in more coaches/specialists.
 

DJnVa

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Is he really saying he should have gotten the job? I read "was a logical choice" as "would have made sense" and not "should have been the guy".
Fair enough--but at least doesn't think it would've been crazy.
 

Cellar-Door

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Did Caley hurt you? Maybe he offended a relative? I get you’re not over the moon about him but he checks all the boxes. Been around successful offenses including being in the same room as McVay and Robinson for a year. ALSO is highly thought of by Scarnecchia. Maybe he’s not a QB whisperer, they could still bring in more coaches/specialists.
I have said I'm pretty neutral on Caley, my point was.... nobody else wants him as an OC, which means you can take your time and wait on Kubiak, he isn't a Robinson who has other offers you need to move to try and rush to beat. He could be a good OC, but there is no particular rush to give him the job before Kubiak and Fleury are available. Not sure why you are implying that my stating a fact about his current employment options is a personal attack. It is what it is.



Rams are at a different place and may not want a first time OC in charge.

Additionally, Phil Perry seems like a guy that's pretty plugged in and not a sensationalist and thinks Caley should have gotten the job in 2022.

Pretty sure Perry is saying there what many said at the time... he was senior-most offensive coach at the time and got an interview the next year so if they were staying internal, which seemed likely, he was the expected pick, BB bypassed him for Patricia.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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Did Caley hurt you? Maybe he offended a relative? I get you’re not over the moon about him but he checks all the boxes. Been around successful offenses including being in the same room as McVay and Robinson for a year. ALSO is highly thought of by Scarnecchia. Maybe he’s not a QB whisperer, they could still bring in more coaches/specialists.
Failing to see what boxes he actually checks?

Track record of developing young talent?

Experience calling plays?

Experience designing and implanting a system?

Gameplanning?

QB development?

the only boxes he seems to check are intangible things like “other coaches respect him” and “spent a year in a room with McVay”

which isn’t to say he is or isn’t going to fail but there’s literally nothing in his body of work that should make any of us think he’s qualified to rebuild an offense and develop a young QB. Maybe he’s a super genius who interviews really well and has lots of great ideas. I hope that’s the case. But his resume is just about the thinnest of anyone being interviewed in terms of applicable success from his previous position.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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I have said I'm pretty neutral on Caley, my point was.... nobody else wants him as an OC, which means you can take your time and wait on Kubiak, he isn't a Robinson who has other offers you need to move to try and rush to beat. He could be a good OC, but there is no particular rush to give him the job before Kubiak and Fleury are available. Not sure why you are implying that my stating a fact about his current employment options is a personal attack. It is what it is.
It came across as a little “the best part about a guy nobody wants” which sounds defamatory.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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Failing to see what boxes he actually checks?

Track record of developing young talent?

Experience calling plays?

Experience designing and implanting a system?

Gameplanning?

QB development?

the only boxes he seems to check are intangible things like “other coaches respect him” and “spent a year in a room with McVay”

which isn’t to say he is or isn’t going to fail but there’s literally nothing in his body of work that should make any of us think he’s qualified to rebuild an offense and develop a young QB. Maybe he’s a super genius who interviews really well and has lots of great ideas. I hope that’s the case. But his resume is just about the thinnest of anyone being interviewed in terms of applicable success from his previous position.
Checks all the boxes for what you’re looking for in a first time OC. If you want experience you’re not looking for someone who’s starting out. Have we interviewed anyone that has experience calling plays, implanting a system or developing talent? Or are they all assistants looking for their first coordinator position.
 

4 6 3 DP

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The #1 priority of this OC hire is to develop the new franchise QB who will likely be selected at #3. They will need an excellent teacher as QB coach most likely, and regardless of the offensive game plans they put together, if the #3 pick is playing at a top 10-12 positional level QB in 2 years (which is a high bar given the QB talent in the league), this hire will be successful. I have no doubt that Mayo/Kraft know this.
 

NortheasternPJ

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The #1 priority of this OC hire is to develop the new franchise QB who will likely be selected at #3. They will need an excellent teacher as QB coach most likely, and regardless of the offensive game plans they put together, if the #3 pick is playing at a top 10-12 positional level QB in 2 years (which is a high bar given the QB talent in the league), this hire will be successful. I have no doubt that Mayo/Kraft know this.
Next week when they hire Josh McDaniels I think you'll be correct.
 

Justthetippett

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I love Reiss but who cares? What does anyone expect these letters to say? We suck, don't show up and spend your money here? This is not some window into the Krafts' soul. It's promotional material.
 

jmanny24

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I love Reiss but who cares? What does anyone expect these letters to say? We suck, don't show up and spend your money here? This is not some window into the Krafts' soul. It's promotional material.
To be fair though people get all "run through a wall" impressed after introductory press conferences. But honestly shouldn't that be the way they all sound? Say the right things get people excited. If you don't sound impressive you've hired the wrong person. These letters and PCs for new hires should ask get the who cares treatment.
 

joe dokes

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Hall of Famer Ben Johnson spent the plurality of his pre-OC days as a TE coach. Apparently that box can hold many checkmarks.

Edit: Nm.
 

Cellar-Door

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Will be interesting to see who Van Pelt brings with him. CLE's O-line coaching has been excellent, Scott Peters has been the assistant O-line coach there since 2020, cold be interesting. Chad O'Shea coming back? He's been pass game coordinator and WR coach for a while.
 

Saints Rest

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So, if I am reading correctly, the Pats now have in place the following coaches:
  • Head Coach -- Mayo
  • OC -- Van Pelt
  • DC -- Covington
  • ST -- Springer
And in the front office:
  • Dir Player Personnel -- Matt Groh
  • Senior Personnel Advisor -- Patrick Stewart
  • College Scouting Director -- Camren Williams
AFAIK, we haven't seen anything about any positional coaches, correct?
 

Justthetippett

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So, if I am reading correctly, the Pats now have in place the following coaches:
  • Head Coach -- Mayo
  • OC -- Van Pelt
  • DC -- Covington
  • ST -- Springer
And in the front office:
  • Dir Player Personnel -- Matt Groh
  • Senior Personnel Advisor -- Patrick Stewart
  • College Scouting Director -- Camren Williams
AFAIK, we haven't seen anything about any positional coaches, correct?
Wolf is overall scouting director right? Reiss thinks he's essentially the GM.

https://985thesportshub.com/2024/02/01/mike-reiss-eliott-wolf-handling-gm-duties-without-the-title/
 

lexrageorge

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So, if I am reading correctly, the Pats now have in place the following coaches:
  • Head Coach -- Mayo
  • OC -- Van Pelt
  • DC -- Covington
  • ST -- Springer
And in the front office:
  • Dir Player Personnel -- Matt Groh
  • Senior Personnel Advisor -- Patrick Stewart
  • College Scouting Director -- Camren Williams
AFAIK, we haven't seen anything about any positional coaches, correct?
It's fair to assume that the position coach dominoes will start falling in the next 2 weeks now that the coordinators are in place. Current openings and incumbents:

OL: Open, as it seems safe to assume that Adrian Klemm is gone.
Asst OL: Billy Yates is the incumbent. Possible promotion candidate.
WR: Troy Brown. I believe he's coaching the Senior Bowl, which seems like a sign he may remain.
Asst WR: Open.
QB coach: Open.
Asst QB coach: Evan Rothstein. Does he get promoted?
RB: Sunseri.
TE: Lawing. Was brought in by Bill O'Brien, so seems like a candidate to be gone.

DL: Open with Covington's promotion.
LB: Open. Was listed as Mayo's position last year.
CB: Mike Pellegrino. Seems like he stays.
Safeties. Brian Belichick. Status unclear.

Asst ST: Open.

S&C: Moses Cabrera
Asst S&C: Deron Mayo

Incumbent coaches whose roles have been filled or seem likely to be filled by others:

Steve Belichick: Reportedly friendly with Mayo, but radio silence so far.
Joe Judge: Have to believe he's gone.
Cam Achord: Ditto.

There are probably other assistants lower in the org chart that I'm missing.
 
Oct 12, 2023
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It’s probably trivial but I don’t really understand why Vinnie Sunseri is a RB coach other than Belichick liked him during Sunseri’s very brief tenure with the Pats (and Saban, friend of BB, spoke highly of Sunseri at Alabama)

a guy who was a college safety turned marginal NFL special teamer then one year defensive assistant ending up RB coach is certainly an odd path.
 

lexrageorge

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It’s probably trivial but I don’t really understand why Vinnie Sunseri is a RB coach other than Belichick liked him during Sunseri’s very brief tenure with the Pats (and Saban, friend of BB, spoke highly of Sunseri at Alabama)

a guy who was a college safety turned marginal NFL special teamer then one year defensive assistant ending up RB coach is certainly an odd path.
What you describe is the career path of most positional coaches.

Belichick never even played in NFL and was a coaching assistant on special teams.