May MLB Game Thread

[soxhop411]

Bautista dropping a "playing baseball the right way"

“‪@gregorMLB‬: Bautista: ”It shows at least the apparent lack of leadership they have over there when it comes to playing baseball the right way (1of2)…”

“‪@gregorMLB‬: Bautista: ”…Baseball plays are supposed to be taken care of by baseball plays.“ #BlueJays (2of2)”

“‪@gregorMLB‬: Bautista:”I had a hard slide at 2B. I could have injured him, I chose not to…tried to send a message that I didn’t appreciate getting hit“”

 

[Cellar-Door]

The slide was nasty, and Odor pops up and shoves him in the chest. The punch comes after Bautista squares up, he sure looked like he was loading up a punch himself when Odor clocks him (left hand going for the shoulder, right coming up and curling the fist).
Odor is no angel, but Joey Bats is a steaming pile of shit who plays like a dirtbag and then says nonsense about playing the right way in the media like the condescending hypocritical douche that he is.

 

[YTF]

Not taking sides either way, but anyone notice the failed attempt by Odor to skull Bautista with that throw?

 

[SoFloSoxFan]

You're confusing dirty with legal, no?

Odor's slides (there were more than one) last year were dirty. Bautista's slide today was dirty, and because of the rule changes, also illegal. Rembrat originally said they were both equally illegal.

 

[Ed Hillel]

"I could have injured him, but I chose not to."

That's straight up Trump-level trolling. Joey Bats wanted nothing to do with Odor after the original encounter. Btw, you can see Bautista balling his fist as Odor winds up, too.

 

[rembrat]

The slide was nasty, and Odor pops up and shoves him in the chest. The punch comes after Bautista squares up, he sure looked like he was loading up a punch himself when Odor clocks him (left hand going for the shoulder, right coming up and curling the fist).

I mean if you watch it in super slow motion it might look like that but in real speed? And if you're right and Odor is reacting to Joey raising his arm a few inches then the kid is in the wrong sport.

Lets be honest. This is Baseball. Our "fights" are a bunch of dudes sprinting into a scrum and posturing. No ones landing punches like that unless they're still butt mad over a Bat Flip.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Also, an underrated aspect of this was the Texas fans chanting "USA! USA! USA!" as they fought. That is soooo so Texas.

 

[YTF]

Odor's slides (there were more than one) last year were dirty. Bautista's slide today was dirty, and because of the rule changes, also illegal. Rembrat originally said they were both equally illegal.

After a second look I see that I read Rembrant's post quoted in canderson's post and totally fucked up the use of legal and dirty in the context of the two posts.

 

[Cellar-Door]

I mean if you watch it in super slow motion it might look like that but in real speed? And if you're right and Odor is reacting to Joey raising his arm a few inches then the kid is in the wrong sport.

Lets be honest. This is Baseball. Our "fights" are a bunch of dudes sprinting into a scrum and posturing. No ones landing punches like that unless they're still butt mad over a Bat Flip.

I think it's far more likely he's mad about the slide to be honest. Which is more likely to get a guy fired up, the batflip months ago or a guy trying to rip up his knee with a filthy slide 10 seconds ago?

 

[Average Reds]

Wasn't Odor's dirty slide from last year before they changed the rules?

Someone needs to explain to me how that slide from last year wasn't illegal. He slid after the bag explicitly to drive his spikes into the calf of the other player.

I'm not defending Bautista - his slide was dirty. (And illegal.) But Odor's slide is as bad as I've seen. He's a punk.

 

[InsideTheParker]

Just a brief interruption to note that Valencia hit 3 home runs in today's game to help the As overcome another bad start for Gray and defeat Tampa.

 

[SoFloSoxFan]

Someone needs to explain to me how that slide from last year wasn't illegal. He slid after the bag explicitly to drive his spikes into the calf of the other player.

I'm not defending Bautista - his slide was dirty. (And illegal.) But Odor's slide is as bad as I've seen. He's a punk.

I think slides like Odor's are why Bautista's is now illegal. The unwritten rules of what was permissable at second base were no longer keeping the current players in check.

 

[Average Reds]

I think it's far more likely he's mad about the slide to be honest. Which is more likely to get a guy fired up, the batflip months ago or a guy trying to rip up his knee with a filthy slide 10 seconds ago?

People who don't think today had anything to do with the bat flip are amusing.

He was on first base because he was hit. Which was widely understood as being retaliation for the bat flip. So even if Odor didn't explicitly respond to the bat flip - he obviously went after him because of the slide - the pump was primed by the history.

Odor knew what was coming, which is why he dropped his arm slot and tried to decapitate Joey Bats with the throw. And when it turned out that Bautista got the better of him with the slide (rather than the other way around) he was ready to throw down.

The slide was the catalyst. But it seems silly for people to insist that the history between the clubs played no part.

BTW, none of this changes the fact that Bautista is acting like an entitled brat with his "right way to play the game" nonsense. He's as liable on that charge as anyone. (And of course the "unwritten rules" are nonsense anyway.)

 

[rembrat]

Also, an underrated aspect of this was the Texas fans chanting "USA! USA! USA!" as they fought. That is soooo so Texas.

That was embarrasing. They know Odor is from Venezuela right?

 

[Lowrielicious]

Most direct flat out punch 've seen in 50 years of watching baseball.I actually gasped.
As far as ballplayers past that I would think would be animals to fight, were Joey Albert Belle, and Carl Everett.

Is think twice before taking a swing at Bo Jackson

 

[Mueller's Twin Grannies]

Having watched the videos a couple times, I think it's reasonable to be disgusted with the actions of both men in that situation and I suspect MLB will come down hard on both of them, but Odor probably will and should get harsher punishment for not only throwing the punch but also the attempt to hit Bautista with the throw, if he is indeed judged to be guilty of that by the disciplinary committee. There's no way MLB can let that go without setting some kind of example for any other players who might throw hands or otherwise target the head of another player. Bautista should get a few games for the late slide.

Chavez is not getting enough attention, though: him drilling Fielder to get not only himself but Hale ejected was incredibly stupid and short-sighted and nearly touched off another fight. He should get some games too and maybe a stiff fine.

 

[LogansDad]

That was embarrasing. They know Odor is from Venezuela right?

It's Texas. Them being is embarrassing.

 

[Cellar-Door]

People who don't think today had anything to do with the bat flip are amusing.

He was on first base because he was hit. Which was widely understood as being retaliation for the bat flip. So even if Odor didn't explicitly respond to the bat flip - he obviously went after him because of the slide - the pump was primed by the history.

Odor knew what was coming, which is why he dropped his arm slot and tried to decapitate Joey Bats with the throw. And when it turned out that Bautista got the better of him with the slide (rather than the other way around) he was ready to throw down.

The slide was the catalyst. But it seems silly for people to insist that the history between the clubs played no part.

BTW, none of this changes the fact that Bautista is acting like an entitled brat with his "right way to play the game" nonsense. He's as liable on that charge as anyone. (And of course the "unwritten rules" are nonsense anyway.)

Oh I don't think it had nothing to do with the bat flip, I just think that the slide is the predominant factor there not the flip.

Having watched the videos a couple times, I think it's reasonable to be disgusted with the actions of both men in that situation and I suspect MLB will come down hard on both of them, but Odor probably will and should get harsher punishment for not only throwing the punch but also the attempt to hit Bautista with the throw, if he is indeed judged to be guilty of that by the disciplinary committee. There's no way MLB can let that go without setting some kind of example for any other players who might throw hands or otherwise target the head of another player. Bautista should get a few games for the late slide.

Chavez is not getting enough attention, though: him drilling Fielder to get not only himself but Hale ejected was incredibly stupid and short-sighted and nearly touched off another fight. He should get some games too and maybe a stiff fine.

If Prince doesn't laugh it off that could have gotten ugly again.

 

[Moviegoer]

Bats should send Beltre a gift basket or something. He looked out on his feet and Adrian got him away to safety before Odor could really mess him up.

 

[canderson]

Great photo, regardless of intent.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Blue Jays are chumps. Just like the Orioles in 2014 they had their year, lost to a better team in the ALCS, and that was likely their one chance.

 

[YTF]

Bautista should have grabbed Odor right by the Rasmus.

 

[Brand Name]

 

[Sampo Gida]

Also, an underrated aspect of this was the Texas fans chanting "USA! USA! USA!" as they fought. That is soooo so Texas.

Especially when the matchup is between a Venezuelan and a Dominican on stolen Mexican property.

 

[Wingack]

People who don't think today had anything to do with the bat flip are amusing.

He was on first base because he was hit. Which was widely understood as being retaliation for the bat flip. So even if Odor didn't explicitly respond to the bat flip - he obviously went after him because of the slide - the pump was primed by the history.

Odor knew what was coming, which is why he dropped his arm slot and tried to decapitate Joey Bats with the throw. And when it turned out that Bautista got the better of him with the slide (rather than the other way around) he was ready to throw down.

The slide was the catalyst. But it seems silly for people to insist that the history between the clubs played no part.

BTW, none of this changes the fact that Bautista is acting like an entitled brat with his "right way to play the game" nonsense. He's as liable on that charge as anyone. (And of course the "unwritten rules" are nonsense anyway.)

This is all correct in my book.

 

[Mueller's Twin Grannies]

 

[OCST]

Especially when the matchup is between a Venezuelan and a Dominican on stolen Mexican property.

I love this so much.

 

[mikeford]

I'm a huge Bautista fan but he's gotta sit down and shut up. He got rocked in his head for a dirty slide, keep your mouth shut and protect your neck next time, dude.

 

[Sox and Rocks]

Having watched the videos a couple times, I think it's reasonable to be disgusted with the actions of both men in that situation and I suspect MLB will come down hard on both of them, but Odor probably will and should get harsher punishment for not only throwing the punch but also the attempt to hit Bautista with the throw, if he is indeed judged to be guilty of that by the disciplinary committee. There's no way MLB can let that go without setting some kind of example for any other players who might throw hands or otherwise target the head of another player. Bautista should get a few games for the late slide.

Chavez is not getting enough attention, though: him drilling Fielder to get not only himself but Hale ejected was incredibly stupid and short-sighted and nearly touched off another fight. He should get some games too and maybe a stiff fine.

I agree with all of this, and while I think Odor overreacted, I find it hilarious that Bautista got punched so hard.

John Gibbons has always struck me as an idiot, fake tough guy moron. Grady Little seems like a Rhodes Scholar compared to him.

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

If you did this that's brilliant. Even if you're re-posting it that's pretty damn funny. The only thing funny about this entire incident.

 

[Sampo Gida]

Odor has a career in boxing or UFC. Here is a clip from the minors. I think he took out 3 guys with that right

 

[tbrep]

Where does this rank amongst all-time great MLB fights?

My personal favourite is still Nolan Ryan's beat down of Ventura

 

[DennyDoyle'sBoil]

My problem with the Blue Jays is that a dirty slide is not appropriate retaliation for a HBP. Bush didn't head hunt. And he plunked him in the top of the eighth with no outs in a 1-run game, which not only gave the Blue Jays a runner but also left the bottom of the inning for Toronto to retaliate with their own HBP if you think the bat flip doesn't warrant an HBP.

A take out slide is too much escalation, and the Blue Jays deserve whatever they get once they escalate. But then to throw at Fielder even after the slide? That's complete horseshit. Gibbons is disqualified from any complaining.

But ultimately, it worked out. Bats got clocked and cost a division rival a base runner in a close game.

Gibbons has also revealed himself as one of the biggest jerks in the game. His "dresses" comment early in the year crossed the line, but now he's just a thin skinned grump who thinks the unwritten rules are a one-way ratchet that only apply to other teams.

 

[SoFloSoxFan]

Jeff Passan

‎@JeffPassan
One scout when Rougned Odor debuted: "The thing I love about him the most is you do not want to [expletive] with him." That's a good scout.

6:34 PM - 15 May 2016

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

My problem with the Blue Jays is that a dirty slide is not appropriate retaliation for a HBP. Bush didn't head hunt. And he plunked him in the top of the eighth with no outs in a 1-run game, which not only gave the Blue Jays a runner but also left the bottom of the inning for Toronto to retaliate with their own HBP if you think the bat flip doesn't warrant an HBP.

A take out slide is too much escalation, and the Blue Jays deserve whatever they get once they escalate. But then to throw at Fielder even after the slide? That's complete horseshit. Gibbons is disqualified from any complaining.

But ultimately, it worked out. Bats got clocked and cost a division rival a base runner in a close game.

Gibbons has also revealed himself as one of the biggest jerks in the game. His "dresses" comment early in the year crossed the line, but now he's just a thin skinned grump who thinks the unwritten rules are a one-way ratchet that only apply to other teams.

I think the fact they waited until his last AB of the season, 6 games in against each other, to intentionally hit him weighs into Bautista's thought process here. Hit him game 1, 2 or even 5 and he may react different. The fact the Rangers waited until his last AB of the season against them to drill him is pretty petty and cheap. Doesn't excuse the slide in the least, but may help to explain it. No winners in this mess outside of Fielder and Beltre.

IMO, the Rangers look even worse when you consider they used Matt Bush of all people to do it. Kid has seemingly turned his life around and making the most of his second chance and in his 2nd game in the majors they use him to do the deed they should have long before he was even on the roster if they were going to do it. This kid has quite the stigma to overcome from his previous history and is working hard seemingly to do just that. He didn't need that on his resume. Anyone who has a beef with him getting a 2nd chance is going to use it against him IMO even though most everyone knows he was just following orders. Yes, anyone who has a problem with his 2nd chance knows he's following orders but will use it against him anyway. Kid doesn't need negative attention and being part of this mess can create it for him. If you're going to be spineless pussies and wait to that point to drill Joey "Bat Flips" at least show a modicum of common sense and not use the guy trying to get his life and career back on track to do it.

 

[Oppo]

Eric Byrnes made a good point. By waiting to hit him in his last at bat, Baistista had to be expecting to get hit in every prior at bat.

 

[Average Reds]

Where does this rank amongst all-time great MLB fights?

My personal favourite is still Nolan Ryan's beat down of Ventura

I understand the entertainment value, but I've never really thought of that as a fight.

Ventura realized halfway to the mound that he could not beat up a 46 year old man, especially one named Nolan Ryan. But he also realized that (having charged) he couldn't back down either. So he was stuck, and his only play was to grab Ryan and bear hug him, and it didn't work out well for him.

So yeah, it was entertaining in the same way that watching Pedro throw down Zimmer was entertaining (and that never gets old) but I'm not sure it's a real fight.

 

[Soxfan in Fla]

Eric Byrnes made a good point. By waiting to hit him in his last at bat, Baistista had to be expecting to get hit in every prior at bat.

Which just makes Jeff Bannister look even more gutless IMO. If he had any balls whatsoever he gets any beef his team has with Bautista out of the way in the first game or two.

Kind of ironic that two innings before this crap all went down that Ian Desmond went bat flip himself.

 

[Average Reds]

I think the only lesson we can take away from the entire episode is to remind ourselves that MLB players/coaches/managers are not noted for their emotional/intellectual maturity and/or consistency. Also, the "right way to play the game" trope is something that is used as an all-purpose "get out of jail free" card by people who want to justify their Junior High-level grudges.

 

[jcaz]

There was a lot happening in this Jays - Rangers game.

As someone noted upthread, the Jays first base coach (Leiper) got tossed in the 3rd inning for complaining to Dale Scott, the 1st base ump about not calling a balk. Leiper was really hot as he left the field and jawed at the home plate ump, Iassogna, as well. This could have been nothing, but it could have pissed off the umps which led to the bottom half of the inning, when Sanchez got squeezed on a called third strike. He or maybe Gibbons from the dugout yelled at Iassogna, who then actually walked out from behind home plate and stared down Sanchez. That's when Gibbons came out and got tossed. The home plate ump probably is to blame here, as he missed the call and should have stayed behind the plate and diffused the situation. But, for the Rangers and the umpire crew, the Jays looked a bit bush league here, too.

After the inning, Iassogna followed Sanchez towards the Jays dugout, but Sanchez ducked in without talking to him.

I think the remarkable thing about Bautista getting hit was that he was the leadoff hitter in a one run game in the 8th. The Rangers must have really wanted retribution for the bat flip to hit him in that situation. It actually would have made a whole lot more sense to hit him earlier in the game / series.

After the slide, Bautista expected to push and shove with Odor and wait for the typical baseball scrum. When Odor hit him, Bautista was hurting. I think both these guys are pieces of shit. Bautista's got the superstar attitude working now all the time. Odor's got a history of being a douche. I hope MLB gives them both 5 - 10 games off.

 

[joe dokes]

As someone noted upthread, the Jays first base coach (Leiper) got tossed in the 3rd inning for complaining to Dale Scott, the 1st base ump about not calling a balk. Leiper was really hot as he left the field and jawed at the home plate ump, Iassogna, as well. .

It's *always* Dale Scott. Everytime I go to a game he's umpiring, "Dale Scott is at 3rd, something fucked up is going to happen." It may not even be his fault.

 

[The Price Is Wrong]

That was a pretty solid right hook by Odor, connected right on the jaw. If his feet were set and he had got his hips into it, he might have dropped Bautista. That was definitely not his first street fight, or his second.

The early days of professional baseball were beset by fighting in the stands and among the players. One of the few parts of the legend of Ty Cobb that appears to have been true is that he would go into the stands to fight any heckler. That's become quite rare in recent decades, and I think that's to baseball's great advantage: while people in the NHL and NFL get carried off in stretchers, baseball is a much more wholesome, family-friendly game. The occasional shoving and posturing is a little farcical, but the recent exceptions where it boiled over into a serious fight are so few that we can name them - Ventura's noogie, Pedro's olé of Zimmer, A-Rod getting a face full of glove, the Armando Benitez fiasco, etc. Meanwhile there are entire Youtube channels devoted to Hockey fights.

I think that point of differentiation is one of meaningful value to advertisers, and thereby to Manfred. I expect Bautista to get a good solid suspension for his slide, but I expect them to absolutely throw the book at Odor. The guy has proven himself a menace to baseball's image - between the brawl in the minors, the slide last year, and now this, I think we can confidently label him a hothead. Possibly the biggest hothead in the league. The guy is a pre-arb player who's an above-average 2B but isn't exactly a superstar in the league yet. Really, nobody would complain if they made an example out of him.

 

[joe dokes]

 

[Bertha]

Japan rather than MLB, but I love this one of current Detroit announcer Rod Allen. Not sure if this is typical in NPB or just this pitcher, but he runs for the dugout, Allen cuts him off, and the chase is on!

 

[rembrat]

 

[normstalls]

I just got a push notification from MLB At Bat app that said CWS@NYY: Joe Dimaggio hits a solo HR into the left field bleachers in the bottom of 3rd.
I'm guessing that didn't happen today. I wish I would have taken a screen shot - it was odd.

edit - nvm, I'm an idiot. Missed the whole 'rewriting history' as they revisit his 56 game hitting streak. Carry On

 

[luckysox]

Japan rather than MLB, but I love this one of current Detroit announcer Rod Allen. Not sure if this is typical in NPB or just this pitcher, but he runs for the dugout, Allen cuts him off, and the chase is on!

That is absolutely awesome.

Regarding almost Down Goes Bautista, that made for an awful lot of "Holy Sh*t, you gotta see this!"'s all over America. I was entertained by it for that reason - it was so unexpected and unusual, that its hard not to be. But screw both of those guys. This ISN'T hockey. Play the game hard, jaw at a guy if he pisses you off...but good God don't try to injure someone at the bag, and don't clock a guy hard enough to knock him out. Come on. I hope Manfred hits them both with 10+ games. Both have reputations as guys who are either a-holes or push the envelope on dirty plays (I feel like Joey Bats slides like that on every double play he's in - at least I've noticed it a lot when he's doing in hard on X or Pedey).

 

[AbbyNoho]

I don't care much for the Blue Jays, but Christ are the Rangers whiny little shits.

 

[reggiecleveland]

The Rangers look especially bad because it was their own ineptitude that creates the situation for the batflip.
In my own unwritten rule lawbook you should not get too self righteous about a guy celebrating when you choke away a game.

 

[MakeMineMoxie]

The Rangers look especially bad because it was their own ineptitude that creates the situation for the batflip.
In my own unwritten rule lawbook you should not get too self righteous about a guy celebrating when you choke away a game.

With all the crazy stuff that happened in that playoff game, I thought Bautista's bat flip was the perfect exclamation point. Get over it, Texas.