Manchester United 2021-2022: Any trophy will do

SocrManiac

Tommy Seebach’s mustache
SoSH Member
Apr 15, 2006
4,830
Somers, CT
Honestly I think CR7 made them worse. I watch them now and it seems like they don’t know what to do when they get the ball.
Which is exactly what happened at Juventus.

I will never understand why the players get away with this behavior. Ole may not have the plan but they aren’t even trying to execute, anyway. All will be forgiven under the next guy until they decide it’s time to force a change again and start mailing in shit results.
 

Zomp

Dope
Dope
Aug 28, 2006
13,094
The Slums of Shaolin
I didn’t watch Ronaldo much at Juventus but
He’s been our best player.

Ronaldo doesn’t cause the defensive laps from Maguire and Shaw this season. Or cause Wan Bissaka to forget how to do everything but tackle. Or Fred and Mctominay to run around like headless chickens. Or Ole to decide that Van De Beek should never ever play. Ever.

Now if you want to say Ole never figured out a system to fit around him, that is more than fair. But he should be a solution. Not a problem.
 

SocrManiac

Tommy Seebach’s mustache
SoSH Member
Apr 15, 2006
4,830
Somers, CT
A player can be the best on the team and still be a bad fit. In both places, he came into sides that didn’t have systems to accommodate his style. The problem then becomes twofold- you don’t use other stars as effectively and when Ronaldo is out you’re either crippled or need an alternate system.

Ronaldo is an all-time great but he’s a hot potato right now. You can’t build around him because he’s at an age where the decline could be precipitous. He’s unique so you can’t build around him with an eye on a replacement in a few years. If you don’t have the fit for him RIGHT NOW he’s going to sell shirts, provide goals, and leave a team below its potential.
 

swiftaw

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2009
2,855
Michael Carrick named interim manager.
Sounds like he’ll be in charge for a game or two, then they are going to appoint an interim manager for the rest of the season and then appoint someone permanently next summer (I think they are trying to if they can get Poch to leave PSG)
 

Jimy Hendrix

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2002
4,257
Sounds like he’ll be in charge for a game or two, then they are going to appoint an interim manager for the rest of the season and then appoint someone permanently next summer (I think they are trying to if they can get Poch to leave PSG)
If Poch wants a team where owners go over his head and buy him collections of superstars that are difficult to forge into a functional team, why leave the current gig?
 

swiftaw

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 31, 2009
2,855
If Poch wants a team where owners go over his head and buy him collections of superstars that are difficult to forge into a functional team, why leave the current gig?
I was thinking more that he could be fired if they don’t win the champions league (since that’s all PSG owners care about)
 

Jimy Hendrix

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 15, 2002
4,257
I was thinking more that he could be fired if they don’t win the champions league (since that’s all PSG owners care about)
This is very true. United have at least flitted between buying who the manager wants and chasing shiny things that catch their fancy depending on how strong-willed the manager is, so it could potentially work with Poch even though I do not prefer it as a Spurs guy.
 

Zomp

Dope
Dope
Aug 28, 2006
13,094
The Slums of Shaolin
Yeah they need someone for Tuesday and Carrick fills that void. But it just goes to show you how weak the board room is. They just had two weeks to get a plan together and did fuck all
 

Mighty Joe Young

The North remembers
SoSH Member
Sep 14, 2002
6,169
Halifax, Nova Scotia , Canada

Zomp

Dope
Dope
Aug 28, 2006
13,094
The Slums of Shaolin
a few hours ago there were reports that Lauren Blanc would be brought in for the season then the board would make a push for Poch, Ten Hag, or Rodgers.

I mean I think Ten Hag and Poch are a step above Rodgers but I wouldn’t mind any of them.

Now there are stories coming out that Poch would come in immediately. Not sure if there is any truth to it but I know he isn’t speaking glowingly about PSG. Especially the Guardian article published yesterday.
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
7,332
South of North
Poch is a former PSG player--I don't think he abandons ship midseason. I mean, he's still coaching one of the best squads in the world and it includes MNM. I think he'd be the best possible manager for United beginning in the summer.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
19,939
Philadelphia
I would definitely take Poch over Rodgers.

If they had the choice among all these candidates (which they may not), I would be tempted to go with Ten Hag over Poch though. ETH is definitely much more of a gamble but the the standard set by Pep, Klopp, and Tuchel in terms of how their teams play tactically, how they adjust to different situations within games and between games, and how they manage the pressure of their positions is just incredibly high and I would worry a little bit about whether Poch has that kind of ceiling.
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
7,332
South of North
I would definitely take Poch over Rodgers.

If they had the choice among all these candidates (which they may not), I would be tempted to go with Ten Hag over Poch though. ETH is definitely much more of a gamble but the the standard set by Pep, Klopp, and Tuchel in terms of how their teams play tactically, how they adjust to different situations within games and between games, and how they manage the pressure of their positions is just incredibly high and I would worry a little bit about whether Poch has that kind of ceiling.
I think experience in the EPL is worth a lot. Poch has shown he can get it done and while ETH is an excellent manager that would be a big win for United, I think Poch carries a little less risk but probably a bigger price tag.
 

Zomp

Dope
Dope
Aug 28, 2006
13,094
The Slums of Shaolin
Agree with both of you. ETH could be the next big thing or management, or he could be Villas Boas. Poch’s ceiling isn’t that high, but he’s in the next tier behind Pep, Klopp and Tuchel.

While Poch may not want to abandon mid season, he clearly isn’t enjoying himself.

do any of you watch the High Performance Podcast? It’s excellent. Anyways they had Poch on it last year or maybe a bit longer than that but he’s a big team harmony guy. He also seemed to enjoy building teams his way. I could see why the PSG job isn’t ideal for him.
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
7,332
South of North
Was reading a milquetoast ESPN.com/soccer article about possible managers at MAN U and it had this nugget:

The failure of David Moyes, who was sacked after less than a year in charge of United, would be a shadow hanging over a domestic appointment such as Potter, and it remains a fact that no English manager has ever won the Premier League title.
I had no idea this was true. Kinda mindblowing TBH.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/manchester-united-engman_utd/story/4527540/man-uniteds-options-to-replace-solskjaer-pochettinorodgerszidane-simeone
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
19,939
Philadelphia
Reports coming in that Zidane is keen for the PSG job. Makes too much sense for all parties which means I'm expecting us to not get Poch.
Surely Poch is going to United then, right?

Was reading a milquetoast ESPN.com/soccer article about possible managers at MAN U and it had this nugget:

I had no idea this was true. Kinda mindblowing TBH.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/manchester-united-engman_utd/story/4527540/man-uniteds-options-to-replace-solskjaer-pochettinorodgerszidane-simeone
Scottish managers have done pretty well though...

None of Manchester United, Arsenal, or Man City (post-Mansour) have ever appointed an English manager during the Premier League era. The only English appointment for Chelsea (post-Abramovitch) was Fat Frank and the only ones for Liverpool Roy Evans and Roy Hodgson. Its not like there has been a wealth of English managerial talent getting passed over, but its hard to win the title if you aren't managing the big clubs.
 

Dummy Hoy

Angry Pissbum
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2006
7,438
Falmouth
England doesn't produce great managers...they've been living off the Clough/Revie model for years and that gets you Tony Pulis and Sam Alardyce and Neil Warnock and the like. Hodgson was really good and fairly innovative, but most seem to be the Sean Dyche type (who is amazing but not going to win the PL playing like that) or a clown like Alan Pardew. Chris Wilder seemed to be a one trick pony, we'll see what he can do at Boro

There's a few "younger" guys that may have what it takes. I think Howe's ceiling might be a touch too low for the title but who knows. Gerrard has shown some tactical skills to go along with his man management; Scott Parker made me do a 180 on my opinion of him, and Ryan Lowe is a guy to keep an eye on.
 

candylandriots

unkempt
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Mar 30, 2004
10,272
Berlin
England doesn't produce great managers...they've been living off the Clough/Revie model for years and that gets you Tony Pulis and Sam Alardyce and Neil Warnock and the like. Hodgson was really good and fairly innovative, but most seem to be the Sean Dyche type (who is amazing but not going to win the PL playing like that) or a clown like Alan Pardew. Chris Wilder seemed to be a one trick pony, we'll see what he can do at Boro

There's a few "younger" guys that may have what it takes. I think Howe's ceiling might be a touch too low for the title but who knows. Gerrard has shown some tactical skills to go along with his man management; Scott Parker made me do a 180 on my opinion of him, and Ryan Lowe is a guy to keep an eye on.
I think I see what you did there ;)
 

SoxFanInCali

has the rich, deep voice of a god
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jun 3, 2005
13,836
California. Duh.
Read up on him. The two year consultancy role may be more important than the six month manager role.
I'm curious how the consultancy plays out. It sounded like it was a demand from his side (otherwise, why would he leave his current front office job for a 6 month temp gig somewhere else?), so I will be interested to see if he becomes a key member of the staff or just ends up collecting a couple years of what's essentially severance pay.
 
Was reading a milquetoast ESPN.com/soccer article about possible managers at MAN U and it had this nugget:

I had no idea this was true. Kinda mindblowing TBH.

https://www.espn.com/soccer/manchester-united-engman_utd/story/4527540/man-uniteds-options-to-replace-solskjaer-pochettinorodgerszidane-simeone
Just checking...you do know that the "Premier League" only dates back to 1992, right? Loads of English managers won the old First Division title (pre-Premier League) before that.
 

Mighty Joe Young

The North remembers
SoSH Member
Sep 14, 2002
6,169
Halifax, Nova Scotia , Canada
Just checking...you do know that the "Premier League" only dates back to 1992, right? Loads of English managers won the old First Division title (pre-Premier League) before that.
but only premier league managers were important …

for a little historical perspective … https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_English_football_championship-winning_managers

A quick scan indicates the first continental manager to win the league was Wenger. It’s remarkable the outsized influence Scottish managers have had (Fergie with a large contribution to that)
 

Zomp

Dope
Dope
Aug 28, 2006
13,094
The Slums of Shaolin
I'm curious how the consultancy plays out. It sounded like it was a demand from his side (otherwise, why would he leave his current front office job for a 6 month temp gig somewhere else?), so I will be interested to see if he becomes a key member of the staff or just ends up collecting a couple years of what's essentially severance pay.
He could clash with the board and owners and say "f this I'm out" for sure but reading up on him and his ways I don't think he's the type to not work.

Some have said that one negative to this hire could be that the next permanent manager will have to coach in the way that Rangnick wants them to, but to be honest I'm not sure it will be much of an issue. For one, if Rangnick is going to stay on he'll be involved in the hiring process and know what the strengths and weaknesses of the managers are and two I think any manager who would come in would want to work with him.
 

67YAZ

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2000
4,563
Here’s a graphic of Rangnick’s coaching tree posted over at Reddit. If Ralf is given real influence, he could modernize the club thoroughly.

46780
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 2, 2006
19,939
Philadelphia
He could clash with the board and owners and say "f this I'm out" for sure but reading up on him and his ways I don't think he's the type to not work.

Some have said that one negative to this hire could be that the next permanent manager will have to coach in the way that Rangnick wants them to, but to be honest I'm not sure it will be much of an issue. For one, if Rangnick is going to stay on he'll be involved in the hiring process and know what the strengths and weaknesses of the managers are and two I think any manager who would come in would want to work with him.
I would certainly trust Rangnick to pick the next manager over whoever is currently responsible for that.

IMO, the best case scenario for United is that Rangnick gets fourth but also starts training the squad toward a more modern style with better patterns of play in possession and more coordinated pressing out of possession, then convinces the club to turn the reigns over to somebody like Ten Hag or Nagelsmann (who can build on the foundations Rangnick put down since they have the same kinds of ideas about football) while moving upstairs into a DOF role responsible for buying that guy the right players.

I'd say the big uncertainty in this kind of scenario is always how the people currently in power react to the presence of the new guy. They may see him as a threat and therefore want to circumscribe his power over the selection of the next manager and keep him in a consulting role afterward that only has marginal influence.
 

Zososoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 30, 2009
7,332
South of North
Just checking...you do know that the "Premier League" only dates back to 1992, right? Loads of English managers won the old First Division title (pre-Premier League) before that.
I'm aware of EPL 'forming' in '92, but I can't tell you my state of mind when I wrote that--honestly don't remember. In any event, even 5 or 10 years without an Englishman manager winning would be surprising to me.