Liverpool 23-24: The Long Klopp Goodbye

SocrManiac

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I would argue the goal at the other end should have stood, but Mo took two hits for penalties there that go ignored.
 

allstonite

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Fun minute or so. Great for Toulouse they aren’t scared at all and continue to attack. This announcer is annoying me building his own narrative in his head after every goal
 

SoxFanInCali

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3 passes, 2 changes of possession, then 3 more passes and the goal since the incident they decided to go back to.
 

SocrManiac

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Look, every team is getting fucked by VAR. It’s a fiasco. But Liverpool are getting fucked in the most spectacular and innovative ways.

There can be absolutely no justification for that being called back. None. There is nothing on the books that even makes it possible.
 

Pesky Pole

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I just watched this and that last VAR check is incredible. The UEFA rule is clear. It can’t be a handball when it deflects off your own body first. Full stop. Now the fact that it was two possessions earlier is also ridiculous.

“In April, UEFA said: “The Board recommends that UEFA should clarify that no handball offence should be called on a player if the ball is previously deflected from his own body and, in particular, when the ball does not go towards the goal.”
 

PedroSpecialK

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What else can be said about VAR that hasn't been?

I've stopped really posting about it because I have no real interest in debating the instance-by-instance minutiae (and by now you can verbatim predict some of the whataboutist replies), but it's turned me off from watching nearly as frequently... and yes, boo hoo from the EPL's standpoint, one fewer pirate stream consumer.

The implementation of video review and the stakeholders responsible for carrying it out, both for EPL and UEFA, is consistently poor and inconsistent enough to call intent into question.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Mighty Joe Young

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So - we are a couple of days from the first huge game of the season away vs. City

it’s looking like health wise they are in good shape as Konate, Jones, Gravenbirch and Gomez are back in training and no new knocks were incurred on international duty.

So what is Klopp’s strategy ?

As a primer the Athletic has posted an early statistical breakdown of the league in general and the top 5 in particular - fascinating reading if your inclined to that sort of thing .

https://theathletic.com/5085181/2023/11/23/premier-league-title-race-assessed/?source=user_shared_articleDo we have a proper Premier League title race on our hands?

Given the health I’d expect :
Allison
Tsimikas/VVD/Konate/TAA
Jones/Mac Allister/Szoboz
Jota/Nunez/Salah

The alternatives are Gravenbirch for Jones and Matip for Konate.I wouldn’t be shocked if it’s Gomez at LB as well. Nunez has to start

The last chart in that article - defensive metrics - gives a good indication of what I think the strategy will be. Both City and Liverpool are not great defending in two areas - set pieces and long balls. City are also weak with high turnovers. So I’m expecting the usual high press plus a ton of balls over the top to the front three. Bonus is that takes City’s high press out of the game.

Guessing Pep starts Grealish given our less than stellar record vs. set pieces - I’d be happy with that as Doku vs TAA gives me nightmares.

Another Athletic article from their Liverpool cohort ..

https://theathletic.com/5082610/2023/11/23/liverpool-manchester-city-prediction-team/?source=user_shared_articleHow Liverpool can beat Man City, who should Klopp pick – and our predictions
 

67YAZ

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Klopp relays that Alison's hamstring strain isn't as bad as feared - they're targeting a Dec 17 return vs United. With the packed schedule, that means missing 2 Europa and 3 EPL matches.

Jota's strain is worse, no timetable to return.
 

SocrManiac

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Alisson is the best goalkeeper in the world. He wasn’t playing Europa anyway, but he might be the most important player in the side.
 

SocrManiac

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This is a bad stat: View: https://twitter.com/SimonBrundish/status/1731325988103925786


“Kelleher has conceded 26 goals having faced 22.8xg as Liverpool’s keeper

He basically turns the opposition into Salah”

He certainly looked that bad to the eye today.

That said, the mentality monsters are back. After holding down the shoot button too long all game Endo comes along and caresses one in, followed by TAA getting himself back on the scoresheet (the free kick was an own goal). Not great for a quiet Sunday morning but these guys have the grit.

All that without MO’s traditional Kop finish (the short range miss landed in Goodison).
 

Mighty Joe Young

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As mentioned in the game thread he wasn’t bad - but the drop off from Allison is remarkable. I think Allison gets the first two Fulham goals.

Tsimikas has to be better as well - outfought for the go ahead goal.

Can we lock Robertson into a hyperbaric chamber?
 

SocrManiac

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Two fuckups on that third goal. It started with Konate handing off his man to Gomez. Joe was then stuck trying to get position on a guy Konate could mark in the middle. Willian was all alone as a result and could let the play develop while Gomez rushed back out. Tsimikas then didn’t know his man was behind him and was backing up, making no attempt to play the ball.

Kelleher’s starting position sucked, too, but he wouldn’t have prevented the goal in any event.

I’ll stand by my comment in the game thread as well- we never hear what Alisson’s organization is like in the back, but the same group of players defensively looked pretty bad at times. You have to suspect there’s something to not having a guy you trust back there, either to set the line up or to stop the shots.
 

67YAZ

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Matip looking at a lengthy spell in the sidelines with a knee ligament injury. More scans forthcoming, but it looks bad.

Backline depth is going to be tested during the holiday season particularly with Trent spending more and more time in the midfield and Gomez covering RB.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Matip looking at a lengthy spell in the sidelines with a knee ligament injury. More scans forthcoming, but it looks bad.

Backline depth is going to be tested during the holiday season particularly with Trent spending more and more time in the midfield and Gomez covering RB.
Klopp reports he’s ruptured his ACL - likely done for the season - and maybe his Liverpool career as he’s out of contract. What a shame as he was really playing well. Pretty much guarantees a new defender arriving in January one would think.
 

67YAZ

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Klopp reports he’s ruptured his ACL - likely done for the season - and maybe his Liverpool career as he’s out of contract. What a shame as he was really playing well. Pretty much guarantees a new defender arriving in January one would think.
A RB who can push Trent in to the midfield full time & Gomez over to 3rd choice CB? I have no idea who that RB might be.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I think it has to be another CB. Konate hasn’t played over 2500 minutes since 18-19. VVD is a workhorse but 32. You need another CB who can pick up a substantial load while playing at a high level.
 

SocrManiac

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Endo can slot in at CB, too. It wouldn’t be the most effective use of his progressive passing talent, but he’s a ball winner and good in the air. With a crowded midfield it might be how he sees more of the pitch.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Endo can slot in at CB, too. It wouldn’t be the most effective use of his progressive passing talent, but he’s a ball winner and good in the air. With a crowded midfield it might be how he sees more of the pitch.
I don't have a good read on him as a player but per Transfermarkt he really hasn't played CB since leaving Japan five years ago so asking him to do that in the PL might be a pretty big ask.
 

SocrManiac

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If you had asked me before the match, I’d have given Ali another week given the competition because I’m paranoid about his health given how important he is. Further proof I am not a premier league manager and probably should be removed from my roles with my youth teams.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Given Klopp’s quick hook of Endo today you have to think that experiment (in PL) games is over. He’s just too small and slow. Once word gets out - and it seems that it has - that he likes to dawdle on the ball it’s game over. It seems like such an easy thing to fix. I guess at this stage of his career it’s just too big of an adjustment.

That being said it seems like they’re going to sink or swim with the current midfield. I think Mac should be back for ManU at least.
 

koufax32

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Tell me you’re a target forward without telling me you’re a target forward.
 

SoxFanInPdx

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This is a bizarre team this season. They look pretty shaky at times, but they seem to be just finding a way so far in this campaign. Undoubtedly, this is Klopp's best season as far as running the show in the manager box, he's absolutely managing his ass off.

Shot in the dark, but I'm planning to head to England in first quarter of 2024 with my wife and I'd love nothing more than to see this squad live. Never been to Anfield and it has always been a dream of mine to catch a match there. Does anyone have an in on match tickets? I've heard and read it is extremely difficult to get match tickets for those of us that live in the states. Feel free to PM me if you have advice or have a hook-up.
 

67YAZ

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View: https://twitter.com/xGPhilosophy/status/1734179277837304185


View attachment 74982

Yikes. Those Newcastle goals probably give him a goal bump for very little xG, too.

I know he’s also he’s an outlier on the positive side for chance creation. I don’t have an opportunity to deep dive on his net contribution, but I’d be curious to see where things stand.
It's frustrating because everyone who could log on to FBRef could see that his finishing in '21-22 was unsustainable - 26 goals on 18.4 xg, a 27% finishing rate which is higher than Kane and Messi's career averages. And looking at it now, Kane is netting 28% of his shots in the Bundesliga this season so far - that's how hot Darwin was at Benfica. And what Liverpool paid a premium for.

Edit: I was just playing with FBRef's StatHead, which is free through Feb. In any case, Darwin's '21-22 goals/shot (min 50 shots) is the 57th best season in their database (all leagues that they have stats for back to '15-16).

To put 27% into EPL context, that's Son's '21-22 season when he banged in 23 and felt like an automatic goal every time he collected a pass from Kane.

I was blown away to see Jadon Sancho as the 4th best season by this metric - he netted 33% of his shots for 17 goals in '19-20. Where did that player go? Is there a manager out there who can bring that guy even halfway back?
 
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swiftaw

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Shot in the dark, but I'm planning to head to England in first quarter of 2024 with my wife and I'd love nothing more than to see this squad live. Never been to Anfield and it has always been a dream of mine to catch a match there. Does anyone have an in on match tickets? I've heard and read it is extremely difficult to get match tickets for those of us that live in the states. Feel free to PM me if you have advice or have a hook-up.
Two options

1) Become a member, then join your local official supporters club. Each supporters club is given a batch of tickets each year (but not many).
2) Hospitality packages, expensive but seem to be more available than regular tickets.
 

SoxFanInCali

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Option 3, hang out in one of the bars in the Anfield area pre-match and get really lucky that someone overhears you don't have a ticket and offers you one.

That's how I saw the match with Forest on 10/29. I've been meaning to sit down and write a post about the experience but haven't had the time to.
 

ernieshore

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I was lucky to attend the Brentford match last month via a hospitality ticket through a friend of a friend. Unfortunately, I probably can't use that connection again, but the experience was great and I would pay a good amount to do that again (and I'm not a Liverpool fan). Had a pretty great seat -- see below.

Getting to, and especially back from, Lime Street station was a bit of a hassle. But getting there, I just went to the taxi rank at the station. Just about everyone was going to the game, so I ended up sharing a cab with two other couples (funny enough, with one man who looked exactly like a little older Mo Salah -- an older Irish guy also in the cab said to me "you can go back to America and tell everyone you rode to the match with Mo Salah."). Getting back, I stayed as long as I could in the hospitality area and then hit a local pub, talked to a few locals, and waited until the Uber surcharges got much lower. A once-in-a-lifetime day.

74997
 

SoxFanInPdx

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Thank you for the tips to those that chimed in. Of course, I missed the ticket drops for the remainder of the season this morning due to time zones and not knowing about it at all, until it was too late.

Anyone have an experience or have heard of reputable secondary hospitality companies for match day? Kinda getting desperate here. And irritated. Hate to miss out like I did this morning. I totally understand that the club values the loyalty of the local supporters, they absolutely should, but damn this has been a real wake up call on how different things are over there in comparison to here.
 

67YAZ

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Today Klopp relayed that Mac Allister's injury is particularly nasty - the cleats pierced the muscle and bruised the bone. No timetable for return. Klopp even mentioned that they're still trying prevent infection. Gruesome.

Mo, Alison, VVD, & Trent are all staying in Liverpool for a day off. I'd kind of like Konate to also get a rest just because he's so injury prone, but he needs the match time to get back into top form.

The kids are up. I'm particularly interested to see Conor Bradley in action. There's RB minutes available if he can stake a claim.
 

67YAZ

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Didn’t get to watch, but catching up from various clips and write ups…seems like starting kids at both fullback and wing spots allowed USG free reign down the flanks. Doesn’t look like my guy Bradley made a case for the back up RB role tonight.

But it’s good to blood in the young ones on the road in Europe. And really good to see Gordon on the pitch again.
 

OCST

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Thank you for the tips to those that chimed in. Of course, I missed the ticket drops for the remainder of the season this morning due to time zones and not knowing about it at all, until it was too late.

Anyone have an experience or have heard of reputable secondary hospitality companies for match day? Kinda getting desperate here. And irritated. Hate to miss out like I did this morning. I totally understand that the club values the loyalty of the local supporters, they absolutely should, but damn this has been a real wake up call on how different things are over there in comparison to here.
Search for LFC hotel packages. There are official providers. I looked at them for Everton before we got tix via the supporters club. They are pricey but the hotels are 4star, it’s value for money at least.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Didn’t get to watch, but catching up from various clips and write ups…seems like starting kids at both fullback and wing spots allowed USG free reign down the flanks. Doesn’t look like my guy Bradley made a case for the back up RB role tonight.

But it’s good to blood in the young ones on the road in Europe. And really good to see Gordon on the pitch again.
Saw the first 70’ - the FBs were just OK but certainly no worse than the dreadful midfield - both Jones and Endo were poor - easily dispossessed and offered little control.
 

SoxFanInCali

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Random trivial fact: Quansah scoring means that Liverpool have had at least one goal scorer with a surname that starts with each letter of the alphabet.

This is pretty much the only piece of Liverpool history that Abel Xavier and Christian Ziege were involved in.
 

67YAZ

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Saw the first 70’ - the FBs were just OK but certainly no worse than the dreadful midfield - both Jones and Endo were poor - easily dispossessed and offered little control.
That's really disappointing to hear given Jones had the armband. With Mac Allister down, this is another shot for Jones to grab an opportunity.