Liverpool 23-24: The Long Klopp Goodbye

[ehaz]

I wonder what would’ve happened with Bellingham if they knew Henderson and Fabinho were leaving at the end of the season. My guess is they would’ve been right in there.

I just don’t think they wanted to pay so much for Lavia. They kept try to find Southhampton's breaking point. Once that got too high over their valuation, they probably decided to check in on Caicedo and go for it.

They had been openly wooing Bellingham for years. I think it's pretty clear that, despite the reports about LFC wanting to instead spread the money around multiple players, that he simply picked Madrid over Liverpool.

Also once Madrid is in the game Bellingham really would've had to prefer Liverpool. He's on like 250k per week wages at Madrid. The only player on LFC that makes more than that is Salah. So it's not just the 100M transfer fee, you're upending your entire wage structure because how are Alexander-Arnold/Van Dijk/Allison/etc. going to feel about playing on a team where a teenager is making 100k more per week than you are?

 

[wonderland]

They had been openly wooing Bellingham for years. I think it's pretty clear that, despite the reports about LFC wanting to instead spread the money around multiple players, that he simply picked Madrid over Liverpool.

Also once Madrid is in the game Bellingham really would've had to prefer Liverpool. He's on like 250k per week wages at Madrid. The only player on LFC that makes more than that is Salah. So it's not just the 100M transfer fee, you're upending your entire wage structure because how are Alexander-Arnold/Van Dijk/Allison/etc. going to feel about playing on a team where a teenager is making 100k more per week than you are?

There’s definitely that consideration but I think all those players know the quality of Bellingham. He’s not Lavia jumping ahead in the pecking order but someone I think is in a class by himself (considering age, production and talent).

 

[Pesky Pole]

I can’t believe FSG is spending so recklessly. I kid, I kid.

That was certainly unexpected but he’s basically perfect for them and maybe covers 2-3 positions. I hope whoever has John Henry’s credit card holds onto it long enough to grab a CB too.

 

[SoxFanInPdx]

Well, didn’t expect that. Don’t know much about him. Didn’t watch Brighton much at all last season. The vids and info I’m seeing about him online, seems like a great fit. Only 21 and at a position we need.

Shame he won’t be playing Sunday. Finally, FSG stopped messing around and showed some intent.

 

[Carbo Loading]

The thing with Bellingham it’s more than just the transfer fee to take into account
Salary is £400k per week plus bonuses for 6 years
£20m signing bonus
Bellingham’s father received a £20m “consultant” fee (similar to Haaland)
Whatever the agent fees were
Real will invest £300m or more in Bellingham

Liverpool are getting Caicedo, MacCallister, and Dominik combined for around the same.

 

[fletcherpost]

Well, didn’t expect that. Don’t know much about him. Didn’t watch Brighton much at all last season. The vids and info I’m seeing about him online, seems like a great fit. Only 21 and at a position we need.

Shame he won’t be playing Sunday. Finally, FSG stopped messing around and showed some intent.

I watched a lot of Brighton's matches down the stretch last season, in the hopes of seeing Billy Gilmour get game time, Caicedo caught the eye big time. He started a couple of games at right back, allowing Gilmour and Mac Allister to play in the double pivot, you'd think that was his preferred position. When Gilmour got subbed around the 60 minute mark, he'd go back into the middle of the park.
He's got a great engine, he reads the game well, he can run with the ball, he's versatile. He's an Aston Martin of a player. Fingers crossed the medical goes to plan and we get the 'here we go' from Fabrizio Romano soon. I'd love to see him in red at Stamford Bridge. If he gets registered by midday today (GMT time) he'll be available for selection.

Caicedo was a key cog in Brighton’s 2022-23 season, playing a crucial role as the Seagulls registered their highest-ever Premier League finish and qualified for Europe for first time in their history. Only two players (Pascal Gross and Lewis Dunk) played more minutes than his 3,140 and the Ecuadorian featured in all but one match.

He was mainly deployed as one part of a double pivot in central midfield, although he did showcase his versatility by playing a couple of shifts at emergency right-back, most notably in Brighton’s 1-0 home win over Manchester United in early May.

https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/07/why-everyone-wants-moises-caicedo/

 

[nayrbrey]

Sky reporting he’s still not sure about the move. Maybe trying to get more in wages?

View: https://twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1689946861166088192?s=20

 

[SocrManiac]

There's a ton of noise out there. Some report he's not sold, others report he's enroute for his medical. All agree that Chelsea are desperately trying to assert themselves.

This is going to feel like watching late-career Skrtel trying to hold on to a one goal lead.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Claims that Chelsea have improved their initial offer to Caicedo and have submitted another bid to Brighton - Boehly clearly has no regard for that auction ending at midnight thing and have unsettled the player. This is going to cause a lot of bad blood of they get away with it.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

I can’t see Brighton going back on this as it would ruin their reputation. Chelsea are clearly hoping the improved offer to Caicedo means he will reject the move to Liverpool .. or, at the very least force them to pay him more.

I expect a clear statement from Brighton along the lines of “We laid out the conditions of the sale of the player and all parties agreed. Liverpool made the highest bid which we accepted. Under no circumstances will we sell the player to Chelsea FC.”

 

[Jimy Hendrix]

I expect a clear statement from Brighton along the lines of “We laid out the conditions of the sale of the player and all parties agreed. Liverpool made the highest bid which we accepted. Under no circumstances will we sell the player to Chelsea FC.”

I expect a pony, but I'm not going to get that either.

 

[Zomp]

Yeah this is no way ruins Brighton’s reputation. It probably should, mind you. But they’ll just sell to the next bidder and the next time Liverpool want one if their players they’ll certainly bid again.

 

[Jimy Hendrix]

Why should it even ruin Brighton's reputation? If the player refuses to go, are they supposed to fall on their sword and keep a now super unhappy player instead of receiving a transfer fee? If anything, this falls on Caicedo for having terrible taste in teams (or possibly just excellent taste in paystubs, I don't know the specifics here).

 

[Auger34]

What leverage does Caicedo have here? He’s already cleared his stuff out from the Brighton locker room, the Brighton manager today said “I’ve already forgotten Moises, I’m proud of the players we have here” so there’s literally no way he goes back.

Would he threaten to sit out the season? I guess I don’t understand what he could do unless he absolutely hated the idea of playing for Liverpool which doesn’t seem to be the case as he was open to playing for them as of like 7 hours ago

 

[SocrManiac]

It's going to be sweet when Chelsea are accused of FFP violations that come to nothing in a few years.

 

[Jimy Hendrix]

You have to assume either he is very weird about being a man of his word, "I agreed with Chelsea first, I must!" Or far more likely the Liverpool offer is less lucrative for him and/or his agent.

 

[Auger34]

You have to assume either he is very weird about being a man of his word, "I agreed with Chelsea first, I must!" Or far more likely the Liverpool offer is less lucrative for him and/or his agent.

But if Chelsea doesn’t match the Liverpool bid, what exactly does that mean? What leverage do he and the agent have? Is it just not reporting to any team?

 

[Jimy Hendrix]

They have the leverage of making it difficult for Brighton to get their money, which I assume they need. Honestly, with Chelsea waking up and trying to hijack this whole thing, I would not be shocked if Brighton end up with more money out of this than it looked like they were getting last night, no matter who winds up winning the process.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Why should it even ruin Brighton's reputation? If the player refuses to go, are they supposed to fall on their sword and keep a now super unhappy player instead of receiving a transfer fee? If anything, this falls on Caicedo for having terrible taste in teams (or possibly just excellent taste in paystubs, I don't know the specifics here).

Yup.

Its just not like American sports. The player has the most decisive sway over his destination in the end.

From Brighton's perspective, they followed through on their promise of holding an auction and making an agreement with the winner. At that point its up to Liverpool to agree terms with the player.

If Liverpool are having trouble agreeing terms and want Caicedo badly, they should offer him more money. The kid is apparently from a very poor background and he and his agent are no doubt trying to maximize his earn. I don't think its some deep love for Chelsea Football Club that is driving his preference.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

They have the leverage of making it difficult for Brighton to get their money, which I assume they need. Honestly, with Chelsea waking up and trying to hijack this whole thing, I would not be shocked if Brighton end up with more money out of this than it looked like they were getting last night, no matter who winds up winning the process.

If I'm Tony Bloom that is what I'm saying to Chelsea - we held an auction and Liverpool won, if you want us to reopen that process you're going to have to go higher than 111m to compensate us for doing so.

 

[Auger34]

Yup.

Its just not like American sports. The player has the most decisive sway over his destination in the end.

From Brighton's perspective, they followed through on their promise of holding an auction and making an agreement with the winner. At that point its up to Liverpool to agree terms with the player.

If Liverpool are having trouble agreeing terms and want Caicedo badly, they should offer him more money. The kid is apparently from a very poor background and he and his agent are no doubt trying to maximize his earn. I don't think its some deep love for Chelsea Football Club that is driving his preference.

The twitter scuttlebutt is that his agent/agency are tremendously difficult to deal with. May be a case of having too many people in his ear/too many cooks in the kitchen

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

If I'm Tony Bloom that is what I'm saying to Chelsea - we held an auction and Liverpool won, if you want us to reopen that process you're going to have to go higher than 111m to compensate us for doing so.

But if they do that why would any club take the auction seriously? Brighton agreed to sell him to Liverpool. Caicedo’s options are to take the Liverpool offer or to stay at Brighton. Now, if Brighton reneges then they look terrible as well.

 

[Seven Costanza]

Yup.

Its just not like American sports. The player has the most decisive sway over his destination in the end.

From Brighton's perspective, they followed through on their promise of holding an auction and making an agreement with the winner. At that point its up to Liverpool to agree terms with the player.

If Liverpool are having trouble agreeing terms and want Caicedo badly, they should offer him more money. The kid is apparently from a very poor background and he and his agent are no doubt trying to maximize his earn. I don't think its some deep love for Chelsea Football Club that is driving his preference.

Apart from the fact Chelsea's been after him for months and they agreed personal terms back in May? And Liverpool showed up out of nowhere?

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

Apart from the fact Chelsea's been after him for months and they agreed personal terms back in May? And Liverpool showed up out of nowhere?

He may feel a little bit of loyalty to Chelsea for pursuing him for so long but I'm sure Chelsea's reportedly higher financial terms have a lot more to do with it.

 

[Seven Costanza]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with being in London or part of a young, clearly talented rebuilt squad with a decent manager either. ;-)

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

But if they do that why would any club take the auction seriously? Brighton agreed to sell him to Liverpool. Caicedo’s options are to take the Liverpool offer or to stay at Brighton. Now, if Brighton reneges then they look terrible as well.

I think its widely understood in this world that agreeing a fee between clubs is only one part of a transfer and in many ways not the most important one.

The most common transfer situation is that a fee level gets established, via negotiations but in this case via auction, and then the club tells the player they will sell to anybody paying that fee and its up to them to choose their destination. Which is why most clubs try to work on the player first (even if that is technically "tapping up") to figure out how likely they are to get him if they hit the club's fee level and what it would take in terms of a contract.

This whole Caicedo situation has been unusual in several respects but there is very little precedent for a club saying "We made an agreement with X club, you have to go there even if Y club pays the same fee and you prefer that destination." If Brighton did that, it would do worse things to their reputation among players and agents than if they told Liverpool that they are forced to sell the player to Chelsea since Liverpool can't agree terms.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Oh - I agree LFC will have to satisfy the player as thats probably the most important step. And I think that’s what this will come down to.

 

[SocrManiac]

My biggest desire at this point is for Liverpool to not be standing when the music stops. Somebody needs to come through that door.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with being in London or part of a young, clearly talented rebuilt squad with a decent manager either. ;-)

There is plenty to like at Chelsea but playing for Klopp at Liverpool has its attractions as well.

Most players (and agents) in this situation figure they can't lose either way and take the most money.

 

[Morgan's Magic Snowplow]

My biggest desire at this point is for Liverpool to not be standing when the music stops. Somebody needs to come through that door.

Lavia is still there but I don't think you'll be getting any discounts having shown that you're willing to spend 111m on Caicedo.

 

[Zososoxfan]

I watched a lot of Brighton's matches down the stretch last season, in the hopes of seeing Billy Gilmour get game time, Caicedo caught the eye big time. He started a couple of games at right back, allowing Gilmour and Mac Allister to play in the double pivot, you'd think that was his preferred position. When Gilmour got subbed around the 60 minute mark, he'd go back into the middle of the park.
He's got a great engine, he reads the game well, he can run with the ball, he's versatile. He's an Aston Martin of a player. Fingers crossed the medical goes to plan and we get the 'here we go' from Fabrizio Romano soon. I'd love to see him in red at Stamford Bridge. If he gets registered by midday today (GMT time) he'll be available for selection.



https://theanalyst.com/eu/2023/07/why-everyone-wants-moises-caicedo/

I'm really glad you posted this because in the matches I saw Caicedo last year he was playing RB, and then I saw all these posts and reporting talking about his virtues as a DMF.

 

[thehitcat]

I'm sure it has nothing to do with being in London or part of a young, clearly talented rebuilt squad with a decent manager either. ;-)

He's going to Arsenal?

 

[Kliq]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBl1TwvjkwQ

 

[SoxFanInPdx]

What a bizarre situation this has grown to be. They better have a backup plan now. Unless there’s another twist to come. Seems like this guy may not have the best people in his circle. Who knows, could just be the draw to London.

 

[Auger34]

Latest reporting is that Chelsea will sign both Lavia and Caicedo. A pretty disastrous start for Jorg Schmadtke

 

[SocrManiac]

I would love to understand how this withstands FFP.

 

[Auger34]

Don’t even know where Liverpool turns after this. Just horrible planning and management.

 

[67YAZ]

 

[CPT Neuron]

This is like an alternate universe right now - how do Chelsea get both deals done without making a Man City level mockery of FFP?

How do FSG survive this if they lose out on both targets to Chelsea - it will be mutiny from the supporters to be sure.

The more I try to avoid the noise and constant random updates, for the sake of my own sanity, the more I get roped in.

Just get this done already.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Piecing together the various narratives and sources …

- Before LFC put in the official £110m bid they checked with the player (or his agent) and we’re told he’d be OK with signing - presumably for the same terms that Chelsea offered back in May.

- Liverpool win the (now farcical) auction and all is good

- Chelsea whisper into the ear of the agent that improved terms are now available. The agent tells Caicedo that he should sign with Chelsea instead and that Chelsea will make an improved offer to Brighton that will eclipse the LFC one.

(All parties agree the agent is the problem BTW )


- Chelsea are “preparing an offer” , hoping LFC will just step away.

-LFC remain at the table and , so far no offer has been given to Brighton. As Chelsea was rumoured to be trying a swap deal the supposition is they can’t top the £110m for FFP reasons.

 

[67YAZ]

This is Anfield claims it’s actually Billy Hogan leading negotiations with Brighton, not Schadtke. What a mess.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

This is Anfield claims it’s actually Billy Hogan leading negotiations with Brighton, not Schadtke. What a mess.

Lol - the Chelsea owners have taken over as well. You never know what happens when the amateurs take over.

 

[SocrManiac]

My knee-jerk reaction is to never trust anything from This Is Anfield, but given the overall insanity of this process it’s easy to believe anything.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Well - to be fair there’s not much to negotiate with Brighton - the ball’s in the Chelsea half and they can’t decide whether to play out from the back or hoof it long.

 

[SocrManiac]

Reporting is that Chelsea haven’t talked to Lavia though the fee is agreed. If this somehow ends with each team getting their original player, all they’ve done is hurt each other financially by driving prices up.

 

[nolasoxfan]

This is all sorts of ridiculous. From here on out, I'm not putting any stock in transfers--rumors or "confirmed"--until I see the player kitted up and on the game day pitch.

 

[67YAZ]

Chelsea’s contract offer to Caicedo is for 8 years + an extension year. If this was the outline of a deal negotiated back in May, that was before UEFA changed the rules to limit transfer fee amortization to 5 years no matter the contact length (no more MLB math for Boehly). No wonder Caciedo (and/or his agent) only want Chelsea.

For the same money, Liverpool should grab Lavia & Goncalo Inacio, keep it moving along.

 

[Mighty Joe Young]

Basically screwed by Brighton (the fake auction) and the agent … so much for good faith bargaining.

Time to move on … can they they resume the Lavia pursuit or has that ship sailed?

 

[SoxFanInPdx]

This mess is infuriating. And honestly, if this guy and his reps are this much of a head case, bullet dodged. Chelsea just lost their GK and still haven’t solved the lack of talent that can put the ball in the net.

As Gerard said, all the best.

 

[koufax32]

Welp…

https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/38183544/chelsea-set-beat-liverpool-115m-caicedo-sources

Should be a fun day for him when Chelsea head to Anfield.