Let's say BB stays on until he retires. What does that mean for the franchise?

[BaseballJones]

They should have played for OT. That is on the coaching staff. The play itself is on the players.

They pretty much did play for OT by calling the draw play. Very little chance of something going catastrophically wrong and a slim chance of a facemask or something to give them a shot at the win. The play call was fine.

What Jakobi did had zero point zero upside and humongous risk. It was incomprehensively bad on his part. Even if Mac caught it that play was completely dead in the water there.

I coach should need to tell their players, look, in a tie game with an immobile QB when we are just running a safe draw there, if you somehow get the chance, please don’t church it 20 yards backward to your immobile QB.

You don’t need to coach them on that because such a thing would never ever ever ever happen at the professional level.

Until of course……..

 

[8slim]

Rham lateraled the ball to a guy 12 inches from him, by the sideline. It’s nothing like what Meyers tried to do. The situations aren’t comparable.

Come on. Why did he lateral to begin with? It was utterly indefensible. And he threw it almost blindly.

 

[BaseballJones]

Wait, didn’t the coach take crap when JR Smith dribbled out the ball because he thought they had a lead?

The coaches have to emphasize the situation to the players all the time. Someone on the staff should have told them “draw play, just go down.” Just a reminder.

Someone already addressed this. Not even close to a similar thing.

 

[NickEsasky]

Guys I’ll use this analogy (I used it in another thread). Do you think the Celtics coaching staff would coach their players, in a tie game with five seconds left, to take the inbounds pass and dribble the wrong way for a layup to win the game for the other team?

Do you think they’d coach them to NOT do that?

No and no. Because the very thought that a professional player would make THAT kind of mistake is absolutely incomprehensible. You KNOW that they know not to do something like that. Same thing here.

Like if Brogdon actually did that in a game would people be blaming Mazzulla? Or would they rightly blame Brogdon?

Of COURSE that’s 100% on Meyers (and Rhamondre actually). There’s no coach in pro football that should even need to address such a play because there is no world where a player does something THAT stupid as to defy comprehension.

That it happened is not a failure of coaching. It’s completely on the player(s) involved.

There’s plenty of criticism for the coaches to be had this game and this season, but not on that play. Not one bit.

It’s not an apt analogy. If the Celtics were tied and Brogdon tried to do something stupid and it led to a turnover that lost them the game we’d rightfully blame Brogdon as well as Mazulla for not reminding Brogdon of the game situation before inbounding the ball. The same thing applies here. Rham and Meyers deserve blame bit so does the coaching staff for not reminding the players of the situation and not to do anything dumb as OT was an option.

 

[BigSoxFan]

I agree with the bolded as a perfect summation of the current predicament, but I do not agree that he has earned the right to hold my favorite football team hostage to mediocrity in perpetuity. If his goal is to break Shula's record or just wants to keep doing what he loves, there needs to be accountability, and Kraft has a responsibility to hold him to that.

In BB‘a defense, he has built a pretty good defense that is mostly young and exciting. If Kraft has to step in, it’s about the offense and finding better coaches/talent. If BB balks, then Kraft has a decision to make. But who knows what Kraft wants at this point.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

We should never judge someone by their worst day.

Are we talking about Jakobi or SJH?

 

[BaseballJones]

It’s not an apt analogy. If the Celtics were tied and Brogdon tried to do something stupid and it led to a turnover that lost them the game we’d rightfully blame Brogdon as well as Mazulla for not reminding Brogdon of the game situation before inbounding the ball. The same thing applies here. Rham and Meyers deserve blame bit so does the coaching staff for not reminding the players of the situation and not to do anything dumb as OT was an option.

No NBA coach ever needs to remind his players to not dribble the wrong way and score a layup for the other team. Ever.

Come on.

 

[8slim]

Rham’s lateral was like 99% to be successful. Meyers’ was… not.

He threw it almost blindly over his shoulder. You’re apoplectic that we didn’t take a knee but Rham gets a pass for lateralling the ball?

 

[Shelterdog]

The Pats have benched Kendrick Bournenfor most of the season because he’s mistake prone. Wilson and Raekwon have lost almost all their snaps to Tavai-the lees mistake prone player. Herron seemed to make a reasonable number of mistakes and he got traded. They’re running a nobody at RT because the various other options kept making mistakes. The Pats absolutely do holds players accountable all the time.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Are we talking about Jakobi or SJH?

This day wasn’t even close to Eric Gagné in Toronto in 2007. Broke my finger that day.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

I'm really just struggling to understand how coaching can drop off a cliff. It just doesn't make sense to me. I realize some of the all-time greats had less success late in their careers, but did they become worse coaches, or just lose their star QBs or other HoF players? Coaches coach and players play, so I'm perfectly fine with the latter being the reasoning, but that's not the standard BB is being held to. He's being called the GOAT, his standard is he's better than all of them so surely he can do better than the all-time greats when he loses his star QB?

This team is every dumb team in the NFL we've laughed at for 20 years and it baffles me.

- Brady
- Gronk
- White
- Hightower
- Scarnecchia
- McDaniels
- Flores

 

[tims4wins]

He threw it almost blindly over his shoulder. You’re apoplectic that we didn’t take a knee but Rham gets a pass for lateralling the ball?

He doesn’t get a pass. He should have gone down. But his lateral was a lot less worse than Meyers.

 

[NickEsasky]

No NBA coach ever needs to remind his players to not dribble the wrong way and score a layup for the other team. Ever.

Come on.

That’s not what I said at all. What if Brogdon just tried to force a pass into a double team instead. Same result and both things are stupid given the respective game situations. That is my point.

 

[8slim]

He doesn’t get a pass. He should have gone down. But his lateral was a lot less worse than Meyers.

Meyers never does what he did if Rham doesn’t inexplicably toss him the ball. The whole thing was a cluster fuck.

 

[SoxFanInPdx]

I mean, this has been a rough year on the board all around and all, but damn. This is some something I’d expect to see on r/Patriots

We’re extremely lucky to have had the success we’ve had and I’m thankful for that. Never in a million years would I have thought this team would achieve what they have.

BB has made some bad moves. Particularly, this season. I expect things to improve. The defense is really good, but they get gassed because the offense is so bad all around.

Honestly, this has never been a playoff team this season. Patricia and Judge never should have been given the keys to this offense.

That’s my only issue with Belichick in his entire tenure here.

 

[Ed Hillel]

Belichick gave me 2 decades of awesome football. Nobody can ever take that away. I don’t know if he’s “done” or not (don’t think he is) but I no longer worry about a post-BB world. His GM work has been awful and his coaching staff hires have somehow been even worse. His teams without Brady play boring, predictable, and now stupid football. Almost every week now.

He’s earned the right to do whatever the hell he wants but if he decides to hang it up, I won’t really be disappointed other than simple melancholy.

He completely revamped the defense into a great unit that will be good for years to come. Calling him an awful GM is talk radio talk imo. This team was in completely rebuild mode in 2019.

 

[BigSoxFan]

They pretty much did play for OT by calling the draw play. Very little chance of something going catastrophically wrong and a slim chance of a facemask or something to give them a shot at the win. The play call was fine.

What Jakobi did had zero point zero upside and humongous risk. It was incomprehensively bad on his part. Even if Mac caught it that play was completely dead in the water there.

I coach should need to tell their players, look, in a tie game with an immobile QB when we are just running a safe draw there, if you somehow get the chance, please don’t church it 20 yards backward to your immobile QB.

You don’t need to coach them on that because such a thing would never ever ever ever happen at the professional level.

Until of course……..

Zero risk when you kneel. BB is the same coach who wouldn’t let the GOAT try to score at the end of the half with time outs. I just didn’t see the upside being worth the risk of injury or fumble. But Rham/Jakobi clearly made some of the dumbest decisions you’ll ever see.

 

[BaseballJones]

That’s not what I said at all. What if Brogdon just tried to force a pass into a double team instead. Same result and both things are stupid given the respective game situations. That is my point.

That’s different. That’s not what happened though. What happened was so utterly incomprehensible that it would be like a Celtics player taking the ball and dribbling the wrong way for a layup giving the other team the win.

Both Stevenson and Meyers said they did that on their own. Stevenson’s play was dumb. Meyers’ was utterly incomprehensible in every conceivable way. No coaching staff simply would ever address such an incomprehensible idea.

 

[BaseballJones]

Zero risk when you kneel. BB is the same coach who wouldn’t let the GOAT try to score at the end of the half with time outs. I just didn’t see the upside being worth the risk of injury or fumble. But Rham/Jakobi clearly made some of the dumbest decisions you’ll ever see.

I see your point on the kneel. I’m fine with the draw play because there’s virtually zero risk and there’s a chance something good could happen. What actually DID happen defies any credulity.

 

[tims4wins]

Zero risk when you kneel. BB is the same coach who wouldn’t let the GOAT try to score at the end of the half with time outs. I just didn’t see the upside being worth the risk of injury or fumble. But Rham/Jakobi clearly made some of the dumbest decisions you’ll ever see.

Made this point earlier. If you’re playing for OT you kneel.

 

[BaseballJones]

Made this point earlier. If you’re playing for OT you kneel.

Full disclosure time here: for everyone who wanted them to kneel, how many of you would have been screaming to at least TRY to score there because after all, the odds of the Raiders scoring a defensive TD on any play like that would be minuscule.

Nobody actually needs to answer that because I don’t think anyone will admit that they’d have been screaming for them to TRY. Even though I’m pretty sure lots of folks here would have, based on past game threads.

 

[tims4wins]

Full disclosure time here: for everyone who wanted them to kneel, how many of you would have been screaming to at least TRY to score there because after all, the odds of the Raiders scoring a defensive TD on any play like that would be minuscule.

Nobody actually needs to answer that because I don’t think anyone will admit that they’d have been screaming for them to TRY. Even though I’m pretty sure lots of folks here would have, based on past game threads.

If you’re trying to score you throw.

 

[NickEsasky]

That’s different. That’s not what happened though. What happened was so utterly incomprehensible that it would be like a Celtics player taking the ball and dribbling the wrong way for a layup giving the other team the win.

Both Stevenson and Meyers said they did that on their own. Stevenson’s play was dumb. Meyers’ was utterly incomprehensible in every conceivable way. No coaching staff simply would ever address such an incomprehensible idea.

I mean the coaching staff simply could have said “the game is tied don’t do anything foolish or try to be a hero” and you know what it may have just prevented some stupidity. Why is that so hard to see?

 

[Ed Hillel]

I mean the coaching staff simply could have said “the game is tied don’t do anything foolish or try to be a hero” and you know what it may have just prevented some stupidity. Why is that so hard to see?

These are professional NFL players. This is like telling the QB not to throw it to opposing players.

 

[BaseballJones]

I mean the coaching staff simply could have said “the game is tied don’t do anything foolish or try to be a hero” and you know what it may have just prevented some stupidity. Why is that so hard to see?

How do you know they didn’t do that? Or how do you know they don’t coach that in practice?

This is all on the players as they themselves admitted.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I mean the coaching staff simply could have said “the game is tied don’t do anything foolish or try to be a hero” and you know what it may have just prevented some stupidity. Why is that so hard to see?

Put much better than I could. They should always be reminding players of the game situation and how to approach it. “Nothing stupid.”

 

[8slim]

How do you know they didn’t do that? Or how do you know they don’t coach that in practice?

This is all on the players as they themselves admitted.

We’re through the looking glass here. This isn’t a hoops coaching reminding his team that they have no time outs. People are suggesting the coaches tell players not to do anything dumb. And I think this staff sucks.

 

[tims4wins]

In fairness to the coaching staff, they ran the fumblerooski play on the last play of the ATL super bowl and Lewis didn’t throw the ball backwards. But at least that play had an element of surprise and was trying to win. A draw… isn’t going for 55 yards to win the game.

 

[BaseballJones]

If you’re trying to score you throw.

Why do lots of teams, at the end of halfs, just hand the ball off instead of taking a knee? Literally happens every week and in many games a week. It happens because either most NFL coaches are truly stupid and don’t know half of what people here know, OR they do it because there’s very very very little risk involved and at least a tiny chance of reward.

 

[Jinhocho]

I mean the coaching staff simply could have said “the game is tied don’t do anything foolish or try to be a hero” and you know what it may have just prevented some stupidity. Why is that so hard to see?

Meyers literally said we were told to run the ball and go into overtime.

 

[NickEsasky]

How do you know they didn’t do that? Or how do you know they don’t coach that in practice?

This is all on the players as they themselves admitted.

You’re right I don't. But I’ve also seen more poor situational football with this team in the last few years than I have in the previous decade. So yeah I start to wonder.

 

[BaseballJones]

We’re through the looking glass here. This isn’t a hoops coaching reminding his team that they have no time outs. People are suggesting the coaches tell players not to do anything dumb. And I think this staff sucks.

How do you know the coaches didn’t remind the players just that? How do you know they aren’t coached over and over again to not make dumb plays like that?

And I didn’t use a time out analogy. I used an analogy of a player dribbling the wrong way to score the game winning points for the other team. That’s akin to what happened here today. Nobody would ever dream of having to coach their player not to do that, not at the professional level anyway.

 

[8slim]

Meyers literally said we were told to run the ball and go into overtime.

Well sure but the coaches didn’t explicitly tell Meyers not to throw a 20 yard lateral to the QB. Malfeasance!

 

[8slim]

How do you know the coaches didn’t remind the players just that? How do you know they aren’t coached over and over again to not make dumb plays like that?

And I didn’t use a time out analogy. I used an analogy of a player dribbling the wrong way to score the game winning points for the other team. That’s akin to what happened here today. Nobody would ever dream of having to coach their player not to do that, not at the professional level anyway.

I was agreeing with you.

 

[BaseballJones]

You’re right I don't. But I’ve also seen more poor situational football with this team in the last few years than I have in the previous decade. So yeah I start to wonder.

I agree with that. But poor situational football doesn’t even begin to explain what we witnessed today. There’s bad situational football and then there’s the all time dumbest decision in franchise history.

 

[BaseballJones]

I was agreeing with you.

Oh haha my bad.

 

[NDame616]

I blame Rham more than Meyers.

I'm 100% sure if the play was a screen to Meyers he would've gone as far as he could and gone out of bounds or tackled and we are in OT.

I think Rham panicked and tossed it over his shoulder and Meyers lost track of the situation. He forgot what was happening and wondered why he had the ball and went nuclear thinking the game was over if he didn't toss it SOMEWHERE.

To whomever is making the Celtics analogy, I said this to my FB chat after the game (thay blamed Bill) . "It's like the 2017 Patriots are up 2 in the victory formation with 8 seconds left and the opponent had no timeouts. Do you think Bill said 'hey Tom....please don't pass the ball this play '?" I really don't think the coaching staff had to remind the players what to do here. It's a draw, hoping for a freak lucky play.

 

[8slim]

Oh haha my bad.

Nah, my bad, I wasn’t clear. People can gripe that we didn’t take a knee. That’s fair. But suggesting the coaches were directly at fault for not telling the players not to do something dumb is preposterous. The players know that. They just have a team LOADED with dumb players.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I agree with that. It poor situational football doesn’t even begin to explain what we witnessed today. There’s bad situational football and then there’s the all time dumbest decision in franchise history.

Why does a team with the greatest coach in NFL history make the dumbest play? At least with the Colts’ swinging gate nonsense you knew Chuck Pagano was an imbecile so of course they’d do something like that. We’d all expect a BB team to never do that and yet here we are.

It’s utterly baffling.

 

[NickEsasky]

I agree with that. But poor situational football doesn’t even begin to explain what we witnessed today. There’s bad situational football and then there’s the all time dumbest decision in franchise history.

But this is badly coached football team. Poorly coached teams run into kickers on crucial punts. Poorly coached football team get tons of procedural penalties. Poorly coached football teams burn 2 timeouts and then get a false start penalty inside the 5 yard line. Poorly coached teams snap the ball to their punter before everyone is ready. And poorly coached football teams have players who lose their heads at key moments. My issue isn’t the one play, it’s the sum of the parts over the last two seasons.

 

[NickEsasky]

Nah, my bad, I wasn’t clear. People can gripe that we didn’t take a knee. That’s fair. But suggesting the coaches were directly at fault for not telling the players not to do something dumb is preposterous. The players know that. They just have a team LOADED with dumb players.

Who’s responsible for making them smarter?

 

[BaseballJones]

Why does a team with the greatest coach in NFL history make the dumbest play? At least with the Colts’ swinging gate nonsense you knew Chuck Pagano was an imbecile so of course they’d do something like that. We’d all expect a BB team to never do that and yet here we are.

It’s utterly baffling.

I have no idea. It IS utterly baffling. You’ll never see that kind of thing happen the rest of your life.

 

[ragnarok725]

I mean the coaching staff simply could have said “the game is tied don’t do anything foolish or try to be a hero” and you know what it may have just prevented some stupidity. Why is that so hard to see?

They did that. They literally did that. What are we even doing here?

 

[BaseballJones]

But this is badly coached football team. Poorly coached teams run into kickers on crucial punts. Poorly coached football team get tons of procedural penalties. Poorly coached football teams burn 2 timeouts and then get a false start penalty inside the 5 yard line. Poorly coached teams snap the ball to their punter before everyone is ready. And poorly coached football teams have players who lose their heads at key moments. My issue isn’t the one play, it’s the sun of the parts over the last two seasons.

Again, I don’t disagree with you on the general principle. Far too many silly mistakes this year. That’s largely on the coaching.

But this one goes way way way way beyond that. This one is alien kind of stuff.

 

[NickEsasky]

Again, I don’t disagree with you on the general principle. Far too many silly mistakes this year. That’s largely on the coaching.

But this one goes way way way way beyond that. This one is alien kind of stuff.

It is an aberration for sure. No argument from me. But again, for me, it’s all part of a fundamental rot that’s been getting worse. I’ll leave it alone now I’ve got it off my chest.

 

[8slim]

Who’s responsible for making them smarter?

Well it’s a combination of getting better players (which they desperately need on the offensive side) and coaching. And the coaching stinks on O. I’ve been harping on that all season.

That play specifically though was 2 guys losing their minds. It happens. Welker Dropped a catchable ball in the SB. Brady threw end zone picks. Shit happens.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

They did that. They literally did that. What are we even doing here?

if the coaches did say that then there are several problems.

We are wondering why a team did that when told not to do that? Either the players don’t listen, or are too dumb to coach (and on this team the coach chooses the players) or the coaches have no control of the games because their coaching gets ignored.

None of these are good developments.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Well it’s a combination of getting better players (which they desperately need on the offensive side) and coaching. And the coaching stinks on O. I’ve been harping on that all season.

That play specifically though was 2 guys losing their minds. It happens. Welker Dropped a catchable ball in the SB. Brady threw end zone picks. Shit happens.

Two guys completely losing their minds shouldn’t just happen though. Brady and Welker were sins of commission, they made physical mistakes but were at least playing sound football. Hell, Matt Dodge tried to kick the ball out of bounds, he just failed at it.

What Meyers did today was well beyond the physical mistake area. I just cannot understand what he thought would happen even if he got the ball to Mac. It defies the basic quantum fundamentals of football.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

if the coaches did say that then there are several problems.

We are wondering why a team did that when told not to do that? Either the players don’t listen, or are too dumb to coach (and on this team the coach chooses the players) or the coaches have no control of the games because their coaching gets ignored.

None of these are good developments.

Stevenson had a hard time getting and staying on the field his rookie season because the coaches had some concerns about him.

I'd say his strengths have greatly outweighed those weaknesses.

Sometimes guys are boneheads. Can't build a team full of librarians. True fans wouldn't be able to get tickets with all the ladies sucking up tickets to the games, first of all...

 

[AB in DC]

But this is badly coached football team.

And that's the key here. Belichick -- at leas the 2022 version of Belichick -- has lost the benefit of the doubt here. He's put togeter the absoultely worst set of assistant coaches in his entire career. The team is making dumb plays after dumb plays. Just an hour earlier we had the team unable to handle a normal punt play with less than a minute left in the half. This is not a well-coached team.