Lee Jenkins: LeBron James is returning to Cleveland
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
According to Stein, LeBron's contract has Love spooked about re-signing in Cleveland. At the moment, it feels like the trade may not happen, which would make the league extremely well balanced next year. Free agency, thus far, has resulted in the top guys going to their own teams. Bosh, Carmelo, and LeBron are all leading their own teams. It's pretty much exactly the opposite of what the anti-super team folks complained about for the last 4 years.ElUno20 said:
If the TWolves accept anything less than Wiggins, Saunders is an idiot. The Cavs need Love more than the Wolves need to make this trade. They have other trade partners in Boston and Golden State.
I thought his criticism was that he ONLY preferred to getting to the Finals and winning Championships? Wasn't that the primary "complaint" of forming that team? The East won't be wide open for long with LeBron in Cleveland.....I wonder what the next criticism will be.ElUno20 said:
moly99 said:
To be clear, I am not saying the Wolves will get nothing for Love. They will almost certainly trade him but they have other suitors. Any Cavs package that does not include Wiggins is not a serious offer. Or are you suggesting that Waiters and Bennett or some combination of other parts is a reasonable deal for Love?
moly99 said:
I am not understanding - are you suggesting that Waiters and Bennett (or some combination of other Cavs ex-Wiggins, Irving or Varejao) is better than what Ainge has reportedly offered Minnesota (Sully, Olynyk plus the Nets pick) or Golden State's supposed offers (Lee plus Barnes plus a pick..or maybe Lee plus Thompson)?
Yeah, Waiters and Bennett is not getting this deal done. It's just not.
Had the front office not been completely incompetent and gone with Oladipo, Giannis, or one of the studs from last years draft, they would actually have an asset they could use as a substitute for Wiggins.
But tough luck.
Had the front office not been completely incompetent and gone with Oladipo, Giannis, or one of the studs from last years draft, they would actually have an asset they could use as a substitute for Wiggins.
But tough luck.
This is stupid.ElUno20 said:
LeBron is the best player in the world. In a wide open league, he's as likely as anybody to make the finals. Who in the East is clearly superior? Chicago with Rose's injury history? Bosh and Deng in Miami? Pierce, Wall, and Beal?
I kind of doubt Oladipo moves the needle much. Giannis might have, but Oladipo's 22 years old. I'm not sure there 'a a pick in last year's draft that seals the deal for them.knucklecup said:
moly99 said:
Well, he has given no suggestion that he would do that and, frankly, its a long-shot that he does so given that it gives Minnesota some incentive to hold on to him into next season. They aren't simply giving him up for warm bodies with little upside. They can keep Love and try to contend for the last WC seed (a long-shot I know) or at least hold him until the trade deadline next season. I doubt Love wants that outcome given his express preference to play elsewhere. Note that he has also expressed interest in playing for Golden State and Boston as well.
Unlikely.Devizier said:
LeBron/Irving/Wiggins will count about 44Mish just for those three guys. Even if they released everyone else, minimum cap holds would bring them to 48-49M.
Even if Love were willing to take what's leftover, they'd have to fill the roster with 7 minimum salary guys and one guy with the room exception of a bit under 3M.
They probably need to trade for him.
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
I agree. Love could play hardball and say he only wants the Cavs, but I really doubt thats the case. Particularly with the Warriors, I would be shocked if he suddenly claimed he wouldn't sign an extension with them. He is a California guy and he and Curry would be great together.
Even though I don't think the rumored GS deals are a great return for Love, they are FAR superior to any Cavs offer that doesn't include Wiggins.
That isn't going to get it done for Love. What would be interesting (though there is little to no chance of it happening) is if they offered a similar package for Rondo (they may even be able to get him for just Bennet/Waiters and the pick) and then flipped Irving and filler (Irving, Haywood, Felix and Dellavedova works) for Love. Minnesota would almost certainly go for it and Cleveland would end up with a pretty killer starting five (Rondo, Wiggins, Lebron, Love, Verajao). It would be a win-now option that maintains significant future upside in Wiggins...Infield Infidel said:
Shamsports, guesswork, and Larry Coon projections:
Cavaliers current 2015/16 obligations:
Lebron James $21.6M+ (player option)
Kyrie Irving $15.2M (assuming max raises of 7.5% in the 90M extension)
Andrew Wiggins $5.6M
Tristan Thompson qualifying offer $6.8M
Bennett and Waiters are team options, and I'm unsure how much of Carrick Felix's contract is actually guaranteed.
2015-16 salary cap projection: $66.5M
If the Cavaliers don't offer on Thompson, they will have more than $24M in raw cap space next offseason.
Assuming that the cap number holds, I think the Cavaliers can offer Love a shade under $20M in first year salary if he opts out next year. So they can sign Love outright, if he is not traded (or is and opts out with that team anyways). That would put them in a tough position w/re to filling out the rest of their roster, though. Still, being able to hold that amount of cap space, a few draft picks and to control Wiggins has to be appealing. Love won't be the only big fish on the market.
It's an interesting situation to be sure. In the end, I think the Celtics might still be alive in the Love market.
Cavaliers current 2015/16 obligations:
Lebron James $21.6M+ (player option)
Kyrie Irving $15.2M (assuming max raises of 7.5% in the 90M extension)
Andrew Wiggins $5.6M
Tristan Thompson qualifying offer $6.8M
Bennett and Waiters are team options, and I'm unsure how much of Carrick Felix's contract is actually guaranteed.
2015-16 salary cap projection: $66.5M
If the Cavaliers don't offer on Thompson, they will have more than $24M in raw cap space next offseason.
Assuming that the cap number holds, I think the Cavaliers can offer Love a shade under $20M in first year salary if he opts out next year. So they can sign Love outright, if he is not traded (or is and opts out with that team anyways). That would put them in a tough position w/re to filling out the rest of their roster, though. Still, being able to hold that amount of cap space, a few draft picks and to control Wiggins has to be appealing. Love won't be the only big fish on the market.
It's an interesting situation to be sure. In the end, I think the Celtics might still be alive in the Love market.
You still left out the cap holds. Always has to be 12 salaries accounted for on your cap. So in this case you'd have to add nine minimum salary place holders along with LeBron, Irving and Wiggins. So with those three guys and 9 minimum cap holds, they can't offer him anywhere near 20M.Devizier said:
And again, even if he took the max they could offer him under the cap. their team would be LeBron, Love, Irving, Wiggins, one guy for just under 3M, and 7 minimum salaries.
Edit: Miscalculated on Irving. Was thinking his contract started this year not next. Thanks to Wade Boggs post below this one to point that out.
mcpickl said:
Reports are that Irving received the Derrick Rose treatment - i.e., if he's voted an All-Star this season, he gets the 30% contract next year.
You do not go from never sniffing the playoffs to being in the finals. It does not happen. Thats what he will have to do with irving, wiggins and possibly love. It takes time. Thats why I dont fancy the cavs next year.Grin&MartyBarret said:
if he can do it he is better than we actually think he is. I just feel that experience and chemistry are extremely important. Look how long the celtics kept their core together.
And top it all off with lebron's insane usage the last 4 years with the deepest playoff runs you can make, he will at some point run out of gas.
The Celtics kept their core together for a while. Their only championship came in year one. Not sure I understand your point?ElUno20 said:
The Celtics and Heat just accomplished this the first year they added a major impact player in KG and LeBron. So it does happen.ElUno20 said:
jon abbey said:
Yeah, ELUno is completely incorrect when he says it doesn't happen. It has happened multiple times in the past 13 years. And Cavs went from shitty to a title contender solely because of Lebron. And they should be.
I can't wrap my head around the crazy contract. Two years with an opt out clause after one? After LeBron wrote "It will be a long process, much longer than it was in 2010"? I just don't get it. He says he is committed to Cleveland, yet he signs a contract that would allow him to bail (again) after only a single season? I don't believe he is going to leave Cleveland again in a year or two, but why put that in the contract?
Kliq said:
There are a couple of possibilities. First, he's setting Cleveland up for as much flexibility as possible. If he feels their are free agents on the market they should target, he could opt out and accept less money to make that happen. The second possibility is that he's trying to maximize earnings. A max contract will be worth a lot more during the next CBA.
The third possibility (which seems most likely to me, actually) is he wants to retain his influence over ownership. If Gilbert meddles in year one, or if Lebron doesn't like the decisions made, or if they refuse to add someone because of the tax, Lebron can walk away. That's an incredibly powerful lever---the franchise value soared hundreds of millions of dollars when he re-signed, and thus Gilbert is highly incented to keep him happy.
I think it's a very smart move from Lebron
I think it's a very smart move from Lebron
PedroKsBambino said:
This, exactly, at least as it applies to the one year opt-out (I think the two year length is more about salary with the new CBA). Cleveland did a thoroughly shitty job surrounding him with personnel in his first seven year stint there, and the owner hasn't changed.
A huge reason the opt out is there, I feel, is because it allows him to sign a 5 year max salary deal. Because he came over in free agency and not via sign and trade, he was only eligible for a 4 year deal. I'm guessing the opt out is there so he can re-sign next summer for a 5 year max salary deal. If he sees the effects of the new CBA pushing salaries drastically higher, he might wait an extra year, but either way, the opt out and short contract are there so that he can sign a max long-term deal. If he had signed a 4 year deal, there's a chance he wouldn't be get a max deal when it expires because he'll be 34 and will be declining. He still has 2-3 years of being in his absolute prime so he's leveraging it to maximise his earnings.
Edit to add: He's basically setting himself up like a baseball player entering free agency. He's signed a deal that allows him to become a FA right at the peak moment for signing his last, big contract. He'll basically guarantee himself 6 or 7 years of maximum salary with minimal risk with this scenario, where as the other deal guaranteed him only 4.
Edit to add: He's basically setting himself up like a baseball player entering free agency. He's signed a deal that allows him to become a FA right at the peak moment for signing his last, big contract. He'll basically guarantee himself 6 or 7 years of maximum salary with minimal risk with this scenario, where as the other deal guaranteed him only 4.
Apisith said:
He can't sign a 5 year max, the Cavs won't have his Bird Rights for 3 years.
This is a pretty good summary of the advantages of an opt out:
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/2014/07/how-the-cba-incentivizes-lebron-to-opt-out-next-summer/
They center on:
a) The increase a free agent can sign for (5%) is higher than the annual non-Bird raise (4.5%)
b) The cap increase, even next year before a new TV deal, will likely outstrip even that 5%, in which case a new max contract would get him an even bigger raise
You can get some good deals renting in Cleveland.Lose Remerswaal said:
https://cleveland.craigslist.org/apa/4534303988.html
Maybe that will put an end to the people doubting that someplace like CLE will have trouble attracting FAs with other options.
"For weeks he had tried to find a way to stay, to recruit players to join him in Cleveland, so he wouldn't have to leave. Ray Allen said no. So did Chris Bosh, Trevor Ariza and Dwyane Wade. Sure, they wanted to play with him. Who wouldn't? But not in Cleveland. James was the one with a connection to the place, not them. If he wanted to win, he would have to sever those ties and go somewhere where other stars would join him."
"For weeks he had tried to find a way to stay, to recruit players to join him in Cleveland, so he wouldn't have to leave. Ray Allen said no. So did Chris Bosh, Trevor Ariza and Dwyane Wade. Sure, they wanted to play with him. Who wouldn't? But not in Cleveland. James was the one with a connection to the place, not them. If he wanted to win, he would have to sever those ties and go somewhere where other stars would join him."
It's obviously not a 100% one way or the other. Certain players will have ties to non-sexy cities and others will simply prioritize a winning situation or some other variable (money). And others will prefer the L.A.-NY axis, or a city like Miami -- and there will be degrees in all of that. It's pretty clear Cleveland, OKC sort of places are at some level of disadvantage, even if that isn't absolute.
Plus, you know, that and the massive paycuts some of those players would have to take. Bosh, Wade, and Ariza, for instance, would not have gotten those figures from Cleveland. Ray Allen is the financial exception, but at the same time, Ray's at a point where he has Championships and $$ and wants to be comfortable. Those were never the type of FAs we were talking about.
There are exceptions to every rule. Love even visited Boston so we have evidence here aloje that he isn't following the beaten path.DrewDawg said: