Lee Jenkins: LeBron James is returning to Cleveland
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tims4wins said:
Seriously? Miller and Jones were both in the top 5 in the league in 3 point shooting last year, and no one is better at getting them open looks than LeBron.
Miami wasn't good enough any longer (they only made the Finals) because Wade was no longer Wade, the bet in Cleveland from the basketball side is on the development of the young studs and the challenge for LeBron is to see how fast and successfully he can speed that along.
I would say that with Stephenson leaving Indiana, I have Cleveland second in the East behind Chicago currently (Gasol/Noah/McDermott/Butler/Rose with Gibson and Mirotic off the bench), then Miami, then Indiana. Wiggins for Love would flip the first two, it will be interesting to see how that plays out.
gary washburn @GwashburnGlobe 8m
NBA source tells Globe that Ray Allen is leaning toward returning for 19th season and joining LeBron James with #cavaliers
NBA source tells Globe that Ray Allen is leaning toward returning for 19th season and joining LeBron James with #cavaliers
Mike Miller and James Jones deals finalized today, so what will Cleveland look like assuming they get Love for Wiggins and Bennett?
C: Varejao, Haywood
PF: Love, Thompson
SF: LBJ, Miller
SG: Waiters, Jones
PG: Irving
A huge dropoff after the top 5-6 players, they really need a few quality bench players to be a serious contender, I think. Shawn Marion would be a nice step in this direction.
C: Varejao, Haywood
PF: Love, Thompson
SF: LBJ, Miller
SG: Waiters, Jones
PG: Irving
A huge dropoff after the top 5-6 players, they really need a few quality bench players to be a serious contender, I think. Shawn Marion would be a nice step in this direction.
I don't know how much more they need to be a serious contender. They are already in the finals if they get Love and they stay healthy.
Maybe, that's a pretty bad defensive team even if they all stay healthy, and guys like Varejao and Kyrie don't exactly have a history of that. I will probably be rooting for them, but they really could use some more quality 15-20 minute bench guys.
Ditto on the defense, I'm not sure they have the defensive bigs they would really need. Then again, Miami's defensive bigs werent great and they won 2 titles.
I think they should consider this year a 'jelling' type of year. First see what Love's defense looks like away from Minny and playing for a good team. If they can snag an upgrade a C at the deadline then do it, otherwise just wait until free agency next year and go use your MLE to hopefully address that. I dont think it would be wise to use all their resources this offseason before they see what this team looks like on the court.
I think they should consider this year a 'jelling' type of year. First see what Love's defense looks like away from Minny and playing for a good team. If they can snag an upgrade a C at the deadline then do it, otherwise just wait until free agency next year and go use your MLE to hopefully address that. I dont think it would be wise to use all their resources this offseason before they see what this team looks like on the court.
jon abbey said:
If they can get Brewer in the Love trade, they should be ok defending the wings. If not, yikes, LBJ is going to be busy guarding tough wings all season.
edit- Looks like no Brewer, let's see who the Cavs can get for defense
Infield Infidel said:
There doesn't appear to be a lot of FA options at this point. Kent Bazemore at least had a good defensive rep coming out of college, though it doesn't look like he's been anything special in his limited time in the NBA.
DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
Well, he's agreed to terms with Atlanta anyway, but Bazemore's best role would be guarding opposing SGs and maybe even PGs on occasion due to his long reach. He can disrupt from the top of the defense, but he's not going to be strong enough for the wings. In a limited role he'd be a decent player for a lot of good teams.
assuming Allen and Marion sign:
C Varejao, Haywood
PF Love, Thompson
SF James, Marion, Miller
SG Waiters, Allen
PG Irving, Lucas
with the last active spot on the roster contested between Dellavedova and Murphy.
That's actually a pretty good roster, although thin in spots.
C Varejao, Haywood
PF Love, Thompson
SF James, Marion, Miller
SG Waiters, Allen
PG Irving, Lucas
with the last active spot on the roster contested between Dellavedova and Murphy.
That's actually a pretty good roster, although thin in spots.
Blatt apparently really likes Joe Harris, too. He may be a candidate for that last spot.Devizier said:
There are still plenty of moves to be made over the next 12 months to get older. I expect Waiter (for sure), probably Thompson, and possibly even Kyrie moved during this time. This roster is far from a finished product and I'm sure Ray Allen signs very soon as well.Devizier said:
That's a pretty frightening offense. Love is an ideal offensive player for LeBron to play with. If Irving improves his catch-and-shoot 3P%, he will be a great compliment as well. Offensively, at least, this is a much better trio than LeBron-Wade-Bosh. More dynamic and fewer redundancies. Should be fun to watch.
HomeRunBaker said:
Maybe Thompson... But, Lebron is close with Dion Waiters, and why would Lebron allow the Cavs to move Kyrie? What are they going to get back that's better than Kyrie Irving?
Possibly a better fit.....it doesn't necessarily have to be better individual talent. There is a delicate balance for a player accustomed to have the ball in his hands to now defer to LeBron and Love. Kyrie has some major adjustments to make both offensively and defensively.....we don't know how this will turn out yet.Three10toLeft said:
HomeRunBaker said:
Kyrie has his flaws, but I actually think in some ways he's a much better fit alongside James than Wade was. His youth makes him a tremendous partner running the break, especially with Love's outlet passing (Wade and Bron were a terrifying fastbreak duo the first two years, but then Wade started to break down and by the last year he didn't do much running the floor at all). He's also an absolute lights out shooter, which means he can spread the floor and punish double teams in a way Wade couldn't...and unlike Mo Williams or Ray Allen, Kyrie also has the first step and handle to really punish defenders who try to close out on his shooting.
Thats really what is so terrifying about this team. All 3 of these guys are capable of shooting the lights out, but you can also run plays through any one of them. Its easy to picture Lebron down low with Love in the high post and Kyrie on the wing, but just as easy to picture Love in the middle with Lebron playing point and Kyrie as the kickout option, or Kyrie playing point with Lebron and Love moving off the ball...The spacing is insane, and so is their ability to switch into different roles on the fly.
Defensively, I'm less sold. Lebron is a great defender, but Love and Irving are pretty subpar, Varejao is rarely healthy and not a shotblocker, and Waters' effort level seems inconsistent. I think they have the potential to be an all time great offense, but its tough to win rings with offense alone.
Should be fun to watch though.
Nate Silver has the Cavs at 65-17 this year. Might be a bit optimistic, but I generally agree. They should be REALLY good.
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/cleveland-cavaliers-lebron-james-kevin-love-trade-wins/
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/cleveland-cavaliers-lebron-james-kevin-love-trade-wins/
His basketball columns are pretty embarassing, he should really stop with them. This is my favorite part of this one: "But our hypothetical roster had imagined Cleveland would give up its starting center, Anderson Varejao, in the Love deal". In what world was that ever a possibility for an instant, let alone something one would factor into a forecast?
ElUno20 said:
Expectations will definitely be very high. Maybe not quite as high as when he went to Miami and they had that infamous party promising all those rings. But barring injury anything short of a finals run would be looked at as abject failure, and they'll probably take some level of heat regardless if they don't win.
That said, I'm not entirely sold they'll be better than the Spurs. And there are certain matchups that will give them trouble--Chicago with its strong frontcourt could give them problems, especially since I don't think Irving can remotely guard a healthy Rose. If Memphis ever somehow got out of the West they'd be a nightmare for Cleveland. Clippers and OKC would be winnable matchups for this team I think, but by no means easy.
They've put themselves on the top tier of contenders, but I don't think they've proven themselves ahead of that pack just yet.
Any team coming out of the West will be a gigantic challenge to Cleveland. The Spurs clicked on all cylinders last year while remaining heathy......I'm not expecting b2b years of their perfect storm from them. The West is WIDE open next year.NatetheGreat said:
Chicago will be good but if you're counting on the PG to be your go-to scorer which is what would need to happen for the possibility of Kyrie being a defensive detriment it takes the rest of the team out of the game. It could happen in one or maybe two games if everything falls perfectly......very unlikely this strategy is effective to win 4 out of 7 games.
LeBron can, and he'll only have to do it in crunch-time of four games.NatetheGreat said:
That's the thing that'll float this team, I think. The Heat failed because they weren't good enough at their strengths for James to plug the holes and minimize their mistakes. I think the Cavs are good enough where they're good that James can shore up where they're not.
The most fascinating thing to me about this Cleveland team is that for them to succeed, LeBron will need to devote the bulk of his energy to the defensive end (which he's certainly capable of) and let Love and Irving handle the bulk of the offense. The problem with this is that judging from his recent weight loss, I'm not sure he will be able to guard 4s and some 5s in the paint as effectively as he could when he weighed more.
They did win.....back to back. They did fail to three-peat. I can't really call that a failure. The era as a whole was a pretty massive success.Blacken said:
If you mean failed to win last season then I agree I thought you referred to the entire era. If so I apologize.
I was, yeah. It was a great run, sure, but if they had a chance of winning last year (I don't think you could reasonably say they had a chance once they met the Spurs), LeBron probably stays. They didn't, and he didn't, because they ran out of gas. James can do a lot, and he can make up for a lot of the deficiencies in his new teammates.
Plus, if they get Marion, that'll help even more.
Plus, if they get Marion, that'll help even more.
Defensivly, I think Cleveland is really going to struggle. They are basically asking LeBron to slide all over the court and guard anybody who is hot for the other team, which is going to be exhausting for anybody, even LeBron. The biggest issue in Miami last year was that they basically asked LeBron to do everything, and he couldn't sustain it at a championship level; he just flat out ran out of gas, unable to play 48 minutes going balls to the wall. I think the teams with a lot of depth offensively (which also almost all happen to be in the West) are going to really devestate Miami. Their starting lineup consists of one quality defender.
Lebron's first season with Miami, the Heat improved their defensive efficiency by ~3 points per 100 possessions. They improved by ~2 more points the season following.
If something like that happens in Cleveland, they will be a top ten defense this year and a top five next season. The achilles heel of this team is depth at center, but as HRB suggested, they still have some assets to deal.
If something like that happens in Cleveland, they will be a top ten defense this year and a top five next season. The achilles heel of this team is depth at center, but as HRB suggested, they still have some assets to deal.
Devizier said:
Miami and Cleveland are completley different rosters. LeBron was joining a team with Chalmers, Wade and Haslem already in place, three good defenders. In addition, they didn't just add James, they added a very solid post defender in Chris Bosh. Cleveland literally has none of those assets.
Their coverage should improve any day now. Neil Paine was contractually prohibited from writing about basketball for 6 months, and that is about to expire. I imagine he'll take over for Silver at that point.jon abbey said:
As near as I can tell, that 65 win projection assumes every stays healthy and plays those allocated minutes every single game. (which is the only way you reach a +9.6/100 possessions rating based on RPM numbers). Kyrie Irving has averaged 76% of that playing time during his career, while Love only 72%. Maybe I'm missing something though.
http://m.espn.go.com/nba/story?storyId=11328963&src=desktop&ex_cid=null
Lebron plans on going somewhere next year.
Lebron plans on going somewhere next year.
I think Irving is capable of being an plus defender when motivated--he's big and he's quick. Love has a seriously overblown rep as a minus defender; I've watched more T-Wolves games than is healthy and while he's not good he's not bad, especially against the kind of traditional 5's you'd think he'd be particularly shitty against. They're going to have Marion who can come in and stop a wing. Their unanswered defensive hole is really at the 5 and that is a problem, but I do think LeBron can shore up the rest of it if Varejao can be healthy and at least not horrible.Kliq said:
And I think, perhaps most importantly, LeBron doesn't have to be the offensive engine every night. If he does have to bust his ass on defense all the time--well, okay, but he doesn't have to on the other end. That matters. (Think about what happened to KG when suddenly he was playing with scoring talent.)
Blacken said:
It's not his on-ball defense that is a problem. (Or rather, it is a weakness, but not a fatal one.) The reason a lot of "basketball people" are infuriated with him is that he offers virtually no help defense at all and isn't particularly committed to playing team defense at the expense of his rebounding numbers.
Of course, none of that would be a problem if the Cavs had drafted Nerlens Noel instead of Bennett. As it is, they are praying for Varejao to stay healthy for the whole year.
I doubt that his rebounding will decline; more likely, he'll spend more time on the block and spend less time playing 25 feet from the basket. I expect his scoring will decline, but his rebounding numbers may well increase.moly99 said:
Grin&MartyBarret said:
Hence "and/or". However that is only on the offensive end. His offensive rebounding rate was 80th in the league last year, but his defensive rebound rate was 5th. If he changes his decision to let the other team have as many free layups as they want as long as he can grab up their misses, then that will take away a few of his defensive rebounds each game.
Papelbon's Poutine said:
I'm not sure what you mean by the former statement. By positioning himself to grab rebounds rather than position himself between penetrating players and the hoop, Kevin Love pads his rebounding numbers at the expense of his team. If he stops doing that and tries to play defense, then his rebounding numbers will drop.
If you mean you believe he does offer solid help defense . . . His disinterest in defense is the reason his coaches didn't want to give him many minutes early in his career and tried to use playing time a carrot for making an effort on defense. You don't have to believe me, but surely Coach K and Kurt Rambis know what their players are/were doing.
Pretty interesting thought on Love, that he pads rebound stats with shitty help D.
Gotta say that his boards-and-blocks stats seem to support the theory.
Last year he was third in the NBA at 12.5 per game in rebounds but was 101st in blocks at a meager 0.45 per game. A 6-foot-10 guy who's a couple names after John Wall on the list plus swats fewer balls than dozens of guards overall. Pretty suspect.
Gotta say that his boards-and-blocks stats seem to support the theory.
Last year he was third in the NBA at 12.5 per game in rebounds but was 101st in blocks at a meager 0.45 per game. A 6-foot-10 guy who's a couple names after John Wall on the list plus swats fewer balls than dozens of guards overall. Pretty suspect.