Joe Mazzulla officially named head coach

[TripleOT]

Under Udoka, this team was one shot away from a historically epic meltdown last year in Miami, in a series where it’s inconsistent play pushed it to seven games, just like the previous series. It had similarly inexcusably bad play in Finals losses last season that it did in the first two ECF home losses.

The wheels came off the wagons completely in Game three in Miami, something that certainly isn’t unique in the playoffs. (The champs last season lost a playoff game by 39 points. Magic Johnson once lost a playoff game where the Lakers were down 79-49 at halftime). If they didn’t flub both home games, the blowout wouldn’t look as damning. Maybe Udoka would have been able to clean up that kind of play, or maybe it is baked into the DNA of this roster. I’m going to again give this squad the benefit of the doubt and wait to see how they bounce back tonight in Game four. If they play with heart, togetherness, and smarts tonight, I would consider marginal roster changes, and either moving on from Mazzulla or bringing in a top assistant if they don’t do the impossible and reverse sweep the Heat. If they lay down, big changes are in order. I’m guessing they compete.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Ainge really boned them when he hired Hardy away. I assume he would have been the next man up had he been here.

Why? What are people seeing that suggests that Hardy is a better coach than Mazzulla?

He may well be better but I honestly don't know how to arrive there based on available information. People are done with Mazzulla here but if went on to have a successful coaching career elsewhere with better results than Hardy, I would not be shocked.

I am really curious what informs the view that Hardy was the better choice.

 

[Auger34]

Scorched Earth, Woj/Shams-style, would have been really easy, but Brad doesn't leak. Which is the right, long-term approach. I also believe IME had a serious PR effort in place throughout, which worked about as well as possible for him. ESPN talking heads carried some serious water.

I know it's a PLAYERS LEAGUE, but there is a little too much kowtowing toward a few players. They may find themselves in more trade talks this summer.

I am normally in lockstep with you here but I just can’t agree with this. It’s definitely way too much of a players league but I don’t think that applies here.
I am going to go over the timeline here from a players perspective (and I’m not blaming the Celtics, they did everything by the book)


Their coach was fired, they were given almost no information other than basically “trust us”, and then they saw this same coach floated for every job opening and basically accept one (Brooklyn) during the season. If I am skeptical of management, and I think all players have a healthy amount of that, I am thinking “what the fuck?! What he did was so bad we can’t even be told about it but he can get another job?”

If Udoka was the type of dude he says he is in front of microphones, maybe he contacts the players and says hey, something happened and they need to move forward without him. However, I watched that Rockets press conference and I find it highly unlikely that Udoka has that much self responsibility.

The long and the short of it is this…fuck Ime. I agree with @lovegtm because he should have faced way more public scrutiny for being a piece of shit and such a negative energy force towards the Celtics. Instead he has his CAA goons, Woj and Stephen A, sticking up for him and making him look like a victim. I am going to take an insane amount of pleasure in the Rockets being dog shit in the future. Hopefully he never wins another game

 

[RorschachsMask]

I didn’t hear, and don’t like posting anything that I don’t hear or read myself, figured it was worth mentioning though. Apparently on the sports hub this morning, Cedric Maxwell mentioned an incident between players and upper management the other night. If that happened, I’d guess it’s related to what Woj is saying here.

View: https://twitter.com/JustinmTurpin/status/1660879267348004864?s=20

 

[Auger34]

I don’t see how you can keep Smart after he publicly knifed his coach last round and then the players quit in one of the worst displays of it in recent memory last game. The “quit on their coach” narrative is trite when applied to professional athletes who make their living competing against their opponents. Have an ounce of pride. If Smart truly is the source of this team’s emotional identity and fire, they need a new one.

The Celtics spun their wheels at the end of Stevens’s tenure, to the point that he brought in an ex-player at their request and moved up himself. Then they narrowly escaped Miami only to lose to a “worse” team in the finals with Udoka last year, making the same sorts of mistakes with their superstars disappearing for long stretches. And now this. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

I think what Brogdon said yesterday was a lot worse than what Smart said personally. Honestly, both of them were right in their criticisms but Smart was trying to give Joe a compliment (it came out pretty weird, especially the “Joexhas taken criticism, rightfully so”) but the overall idea was that Joe is learning and is doing a damn good job.
Brogdon basically said this team has no identity other than making shots. I’m not a coach but, IMO, that has to be one of the most insulting things to say about a coach (@reggiecleveland can back me up or tell me I am an idiot on this). I mean, all coaches want to imprint some sort of identity and Brogdon is saying that Joe’s identity is….something that literally has nothing to do with the coach?

 

[The Social Chair]

Scorched Earth, Woj/Shams-style, would have been really easy, but Brad doesn't leak. Which is the right, long-term approach. I also believe IME had a serious PR effort in place throughout, which worked about as well as possible for him. ESPN talking heads carried some serious water.

I know it's a PLAYERS LEAGUE, but there is a little too much kowtowing toward a few players. They may find themselves in more trade talks this summer.

Woj is still being slimey.

View: https://twitter.com/JustinmTurpin/status/1660879267348004864

 

[lovegtm]

Woj is still being slimey.

View: https://twitter.com/JustinmTurpin/status/1660879267348004864

Is he being slimey, or do the players actually think that Ime got a raw deal?

If they thought that at all, I can't imagine that the events of the past few weeks have made them think it less.

 

[The Social Chair]

Is he being slimey, or do the players actually think that Ime got a raw deal?

If they thought that at all, I can't imagine that the events of the past few weeks have made them think it less.

Woj is being slimey because he has been a mouth piece for Ime since last September. He has made zero effort to tell or frame the story from the other perspective.

 

[Auger34]

I think it’s both. And I think part of why the players think Ime got such a raw deal is because of Woj and his reporting throughout

 

[jezza1918]

Woj is still being slimey.

View: https://twitter.com/JustinmTurpin/status/1660879267348004864

Tough to fully buy that given they started out 21-5? But let's pretend it's true. Right now, as a 41 year old I truly appreciate what the Celts did as an organization with the Ime situation (especially WRT how they protected the victim, didnt leak anything, etc). That said, I also don't know how I would react as a 25 year old who had a great relationship with him, and never got the full explanation. As Dr. Manhattan said, "Without condemning, or condoning, I understand."
Either way I completely agree with the Woj being slimey take.

 

[Light-Tower-Power]

I didn’t hear, but apparently on the radio this morning, Cedric Maxwell mentioned an incident between players and upper management the other night.

Whoa, wait a minute. The players got into it with management in the middle of the conference finals? Bad news if this is true.

 

[lovegtm]

I think it’s both. And I think part of why the players think Ime got such a raw deal is because of Woj and his reporting throughout

Man, it's too bad that the Celtics are completely unable to communicate anything that might change the players' opinion.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Whoa, wait a minute. The players got into it with management in the middle of the conference finals? Bad news if this is true.

Yeah I made sure to add the disclaimer that I didn’t hear it myself lol, but a few different people have told me they heard Max say it.

That would be…..less than ideal.

 

[Light-Tower-Power]

Tough to fully buy that given they started out 21-5? But let's pretend it's true. Right now, as a 41 year old I truly appreciate what the Celts did as an organization with the Ime situation (especially WRT how they protected the victim, didnt leak anything, etc). That said, I also don't know how I would react as a 25 year old who had a great relationship with him, and never got the full explanation. As Dr. Manhattan said, "Without condemning, or condoning, I understand."
Either way I completely agree with the Woj being slimey take.

They started out 21-5 on the back of historically good three point shooting. It has been a roller coaster ever since that shooting cooled off. I wonder if the players think that Ime would have been better able to help them get off the roller coaster than Joe and it bred contempt for the organization, and now that contempt is erupting to the surface.

 

[TripleOT]

I think what Brogdon said yesterday was a lot worse than what Smart said personally. Honestly, both of them were right in their criticisms but Smart was trying to give Joe a compliment (it came out pretty weird, especially the “Joexhas taken criticism, rightfully so”) but the overall idea was that Joe is learning and is doing a damn good job.
Brogdon basically said this team has no identity other than making shots. I’m not a coach but, IMO, that has to be one of the most insulting things to say about a coach (@reggiecleveland can back me up or tell me I am an idiot on this). I mean, all coaches want to imprint some sort of identity and Brogdon is saying that Joe’s identity is….something that literally has nothing to do with the coach?

Brogdon is right, and it is insulting to the head coach. Mazzulla went into the season trying to fix the offense, figuring the defense would still be there, since it was basically all the same players from last season, save Brogdon, who figured to be at least as good defensively as well hunted Pritchard was last season. It isn’t for a number of reasons, with some on Joe. TL is nowhere near as good as he was when healthy last season. He doesn’t close out and defend littles out on the floor as well, doesn’t protect the rim as well, and doesn’t defensive rebound as well. Smart hasn’t been as good as he was in his DPoY season. Brown is even more easily distracted than last season. Tatum isn’t used as much to stymie the other team’s main perimeter weapon. Grant’s sketchy playing time has limited his contributions defensively. Brogdon isn’t very good defensively. Players in general don’t “guard their yard” as doggedly, and they don’t help other as consistently.

 

[Auger34]

Man, it's too bad that the Celtics are completely unable to communicate anything that might change the players' opinion.

Agreed. I think all of the players have said, separately from one another, that they still haven’t been told anything about what happened?
That’s absolutely wild. I assume they could all sign NDA’s to at least be told something? I don’t know but it all seems suboptimal

 

[Auger34]

Brogdon is right, and it is insulting to the head coach. Mazzulla went into the season trying to fix the offense, figuring the defense would still be there, since it was basically all the same players from last season, save Brogdon, who figured to be at least as good defensively as well hunted Pritchard was last season. It isn’t for a number of reasons, with some on Joe. TL is nowhere near as good as he was when healthy last season. He doesn’t close out and defend littles out on the floor as well, doesn’t protect the rim as well, and doesn’t defensive rebound as well. Smart hasn’t been as good as he was in his DPoY season. Brown is even more easily distracted than last season. Tatum isn’t used as much to stymie the other team’s main perimeter weapon. Grant’s sketchy playing time has limited his contributions defensively. Brogdon isn’t very good defensively. Players in general don’t “guard their yard” as doggedly, and they don’t help other as consistently.

ill go a step further and say that he completely ignored defense in his messaging…to a kind of astonishing degree.
thats something Joe needs to wear and think about how to improve it for next season.

 

[jezza1918]

They started out 21-5 on the back of historically good three point shooting. It has been a roller coaster ever since that shooting cooled off. I wonder if the players think that Ime would have been better able to help them get off the roller coaster than Joe and it bred contempt for the organization, and now that contempt is erupting to the surface.

Yeah that's fair. Overall Im having a hard time throwing blame at anyone but Ime if that's the case. As I said above, I applaud the Celts FO for what they've done, but I also understand the players reaction.

 

[Was (Not Wasdin)]

Why? What are people seeing that suggests that Hardy is a better coach than Mazzulla?

He may well be better but I honestly don't know how to arrive there based on available information. People are done with Mazzulla here but if went on to have a successful coaching career elsewhere with better results than Hardy, I would not be shocked.

I am really curious what informs the view that Hardy was the better choice.

I dont know that Hardy would be any better, but he certainly would have brought more experience, and I think a number of mistakes that Mazzulla is making are based on a lack of experience. Ainge hiring Hardy away left the Celtics with fewer options. My assumption that Hardy would have gotten it is solely based on relative experience. He'd been in the league since 2011 with the Spurs, moving to the bench in 2015 as an assistant, and Udoka brought him over from S.A. to be his top assistant. I'd have to believe he would have been a top candidate, if not the choice, if he were still here when Ime got suspended.

There was an overall lack of coaching talent on the C's this year, and Hardy being here would have helped that.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

I think it’s both. And I think part of why the players think Ime got such a raw deal is because of Woj and his reporting throughout

And it’s zero risk for Woj to throw grenades at this point. It is provocative (ie, gets him clicks and eyeballs), it satisfies whoever’s agenda he is pushing here, and when a team hits the rocks like the Celtics have you can just about say anything about the team, coaches, and players with no resistance from others in the media.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Man, it's too bad that the Celtics are completely unable to communicate anything that might change the players' opinion.

To be fair we've seen many many times that logic has little to do with how people deal with the misdeeds of people they like. I mean... We literally just this year had a star of this team defending two different anti-semites he's friends with

 

[Light-Tower-Power]

Yeah that's fair. Overall Im having a hard time throwing blame at anyone but Ime if that's the case. As I said above, I applaud the Celts FO for what they've done, but I also understand the players reaction.

Agree 100%. If that's what's going on in the locker room it is no one's fault but Ime's.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

I dont know that Hardy would be any better, but he certainly would have brought more experience, and I think a number of mistakes that Mazzulla is making are based on a lack of experience. Ainge hiring Hardy away left the Celtics with fewer options. My assumption that Hardy would have gotten it is solely based on relative experience. He'd been in the league since 2011 with the Spurs, moving to the bench in 2015 as an assistant, and Udoka brought him over from S.A. to be his top assistant. I'd have to believe he would have been a top candidate, if not the choice, if he were still here when Ime got suspended.

There was an overall lack of coaching talent on the C's this year, and Hardy being here would have helped that.

Fair enough. Hardy may well go on to a better career but I just don't know how to grade them against one another given available information.

Odds are that neither is a dramatic ceiling raiser but I think its unfair to say anything definitive about these people until they have more of a track record.

 

[Auger34]

Why? What are people seeing that suggests that Hardy is a better coach than Mazzulla?

He may well be better but I honestly don't know how to arrive there based on available information. People are done with Mazzulla here but if went on to have a successful coaching career elsewhere with better results than Hardy, I would not be shocked.

I am really curious what informs the view that Hardy was the better choice.

Such data does not exist.

its a combination of what Hardy did with a not very talented Utah roster and rumblings from people in the media, who I wouldn’t think have an agenda to prop up Will Hardy. He was also a higher ranking assistant than Mazzulla last year on the same staff.

When Hardy left, multiple people talked about what a loss it was. Simmons and KOC went on a podcast and talked about how they were told, by multiple Celtics sources that Hardy was the in-game tactician on the Udoka staff (they both hinted that he basically did all of the in-game adjustments and work).

Personally, I think Hardy would have been a better coach this year. It may be wrong but there are reasons that inform that view

 

[The Social Chair]

I'm not sure if Hardy would have been named the coach if this happened earlier. It seemed important to Stevens, and the players, that Brad's replacement was black. Firing Ime and replacing him with a white head coach would have been bad optics to the players.

 

[lexrageorge]

Man, it's too bad that the Celtics are completely unable to communicate anything that might change the players' opinion.

Well, we do know that Al Horford's sister retracted a tweet that was initially critical of Ime's suspension after she received more details of the incident. So the players know some of what happened and they are not all blindly following Woj's bleatings.

There may still be some raw feelings about it, but if they haven't come to terms with it then it's on them. Honestly, if the players reaction after checking out the first quarter of Game 3 is to scream at "upper management", then this team has huge problems that may require a major house cleaning to correct.

 

[EvilEmpire]

Sounds like the players are working harder to blame management for this series than they are playing defense.

 

[Myt1]

I think what Brogdon said yesterday was a lot worse than what Smart said personally. Honestly, both of them were right in their criticisms but Smart was trying to give Joe a compliment (it came out pretty weird, especially the “Joexhas taken criticism, rightfully so”) but the overall idea was that Joe is learning and is doing a damn good job.
Brogdon basically said this team has no identity other than making shots. I’m not a coach but, IMO, that has to be one of the most insulting things to say about a coach (@reggiecleveland can back me up or tell me I am an idiot on this). I mean, all coaches want to imprint some sort of identity and Brogdon is saying that Joe’s identity is….something that literally has nothing to do with the coach?

There is no universe in which Smart was trying to give Mazulla a compliment when he said that his performance wasn’t where the team or anyone else wanted it, and also that Mazzulla was rightfully getting killed for his performance. I know that he tried to bury it with an avalanche of other words and pseudo-personal responsibility-taking, but come on.

Brogdon was talking about a team issue, and it’s fine if you put that failure on the coach. Smart explicitly called out his coach’s performance and decision-making. They’re not remotely the same thing.

 

[Myt1]

Sounds like the players are working harder to blame management for this series than they are playing defense.

Given the “Maybe this is all backlash about Ime?!?” excuse-making, it seems to be working.

 

[DeJesus Built My Hotrod]

Sounds like the players are working harder to blame management for this series than they are playing defense.

This. Its funny that these reports are surfacing just as the team runs into real trouble instead of during the regular season.

It also says something about the person leaking to Woj. Whomever it is probably needs to be excised. Its a loser move and those people are toxic to building a winning culture.

 

[Strike4]

Sounds like the players are working harder to blame management for this series than they are playing defense.

Yeah they sound like a bunch of babies, to be honest. Like, Ime is not your fucking dad. You're 27 and professional basketball player.

 

[Auger34]

There is no universe in which Smart was trying to give Mazulla a compliment when he said that his performance wasn’t where the team or anyone else wanted it, and also that Mazzulla was rightfully getting killed for his performance. I know that he tried to bury it with an avalanche of other words and pseudo-personal responsibility-taking, but come on.

Brogdon was talking about a team issue—and it’s fine if you put that failure on the coach. Smart explicitly called out his coach’s performance. They’re not remotely the same thing.

Yeah, you and I disagree on that completely. If you say this team doesn't have an identity, that is on the coach, explicitly. Maybe he tried to bury it by bringing up the players too but the coach is the one that instills an identity on the team.

 

[OurF'ingCity]

I was initially on the "let's see what Joe can do with an extra year of experience and some better assistants" but there's just too much smoke here for there not to be some fire, and combined with his lack of in-game coaching talent I think they have to move on. If the players were frustrated with him but the in-game results were there I'd probably be of the mindset that players can still play hard for people they don't particularly like, or that Mazz could make up for that with in-game execution, but that clearly isn't the case. And if the team clearly loved him despite his in-game struggles, I'd say you keep him because getting rid of him threatens to piss off the players. But clearly that isn't true either, even if some of the rumors are overblown.

I think it's clear that this team needs a coach who will just ride their asses to play hard because to be honest they largely seem to a sulky, moody group that get pissy every time something doesn't go their way. I'm not sure who that is (is Nick Nurse that kind of guy? Monty Williams?) but it sure as hell isn't Mazzula.

It's very possible that there is simply no coach that can unlock the full potential of this particular group of players, for whatever reason. But I think the Cs have to at least try to find that guy.

 

[Myt1]

Yeah, you and I disagree on that completely. If you say this team doesn't have an identity, that is on the coach, explicitly. Maybe he tried to bury it by bringing up the players too but the coach is the one that instills an identity on the team.

Not get get all semantic, but that word has a meaning that is literally the opposite of how you are using it.

Smart was explicit. You’re inferring a conclusion from Brogdon’s comments (that supports your own feelings on the matter, though it may also be true). This isn’t a disagreement. It just is.

 

[jezza1918]

I'm understanding of the players reaction off the court, and while I understand it's all intertwined, I'm far less understanding of letting it affect their on court performance. Although I'm not sure that's entirely what's going on here, I mean they are a handful of possessions away from being up 2-1 in the ECF.

 

[Strike4]

The thing about moving on from Mazzulla is that then they get in this cycle where they have to fire every coach who doesn't make the NBA Finals, or who the players don't like.

If we step out of being fans for a moment and look at it like he's a new hire at a company after one year, it kind of has a different feel. I'm sure Stevens et al understood that they were hiring a young coach with not a ton of experience and that there would be growing pains, but they hired him nonetheless. Has much changed from that? Can we really conclude that Mazzulla is terrible and not going to get better and that any replacement hire will be? I think the Celtics need to be careful that they don't turn this into a James Dolan/Henry VIII situation where every guy that isn't yours is the shiny object and everything is dysfunctional.

 

[NomarsFool]

The idea that there would be a confrontation about Ime, right now, seems incredibly bizarre to me. Not saying "bizarre" because it can't be true, just that that is really the last thing the players should be thinking about right now. Who is this guy that he seems to have this incredible hold on them? Seriously?

 

[Auger34]

Not get get all semantic, but that word has a meaning that is literally the opposite of how you are using it.

Smart was explicit. You’re inferring a conclusion from Brogdon’s comments (that supports your own feelings on the matter, though it may also be true). This isn’t a disagreement. It just is.

Nvm, not worth it. I think everyone who watches sports says the identity of a team is formed by the coach. Didn't think that was controversial or a hot take but apparently it is

 

[Cellar-Door]

If you want the media counter, it's David Aldridge, who argues the Celtics should probably just run it back. Points to Denver and the early days of Spo (lot of Spo/Riley, Mazz/Stevens parallels, not to say that Mazz will ever be Spo, just the young protege elevated by the PoBo who gets outcoached in the playoffs and has people calling for the President to come back to the bench).
https://theathletic.com/4541919/2023/05/23/celtics-future-mazzulla-brown/

I think it's 50/50 Mazzulla gets fired and probably depends on how this series ends, but I also think there is a content frenzy, particularly in local media where you have to get off the "do something" take to get the angry fans engaged with your work, and blaming the coach is always going to work because everybody thinks their coach is a moron when the team loses (see Kerr with multiple rings getting criticized this year) and people have wild attachment to players.

 

[Deathofthebambino]

If you want the media counter, it's David Aldridge, who argues the Celtics should probably just run it back. Points to Denver and the early days of Spo (lot of Spo/Riley, Mazz/Stevens parallels, not to say that Mazz will ever be Spo, just the young protege elevated by the PoBo who gets outcoached in the playoffs and has people calling for the President to come back to the bench).
https://theathletic.com/4541919/2023/05/23/celtics-future-mazzulla-brown/

I think it's 50/50 Mazzulla gets fired and probably depends on how this series ends, but I also think there is a content frenzy, particularly in local media where you have to get off the "do something" take to get the angry fans engaged with your work, and blaming the coach is always going to work because everybody thinks their coach is a moron when the team loses (see Kerr with multiple rings getting criticized this year) and people have wild attachment to players.

I can't read it because it's paywalled, but early days of Spo? Spo was an assistant coach for 11 years in Miami before becoming head coach and became head coach at 38. Joe Mazzula was an assistant for 3 years and became head coach at 34. Spo inherited a Miami team that went 15-67 the year before he became head coach with a prime Dwayne Wade, and he turned them into a 43-39 team in year 2. Mazzulla inherited a team that went to the Finals last year, and got better on paper in the offseason. In Spo's 3rd season, they went and got him Lebron and Bosh, and they lost in the Finals. That's the team that Mazzulla inherited this season.

Again, I can't read the article, but I see almost no parallels between Spo/Heat, and Mazz/C's other than the fact they were both assistants before becoming head coach.

 

[Myt1]

Nvm, not worth it. I think everyone who watches sports says the identity of a team is formed by the coach. Didn't think that was controversial or a hot take but apparently it is

Literally not what I said, but how’s the weather from up on that cross?

But what is the Lakers identity and how was that formed by their coach? Green Bay’s before this year? The Red Sox in 2013? Did Farrell form their identity as WS champs and their identity as a last place team?

 

[Jeff Van GULLY]

The idea that there would be a confrontation about Ime, right now, seems incredibly bizarre to me. Not saying "bizarre" because it can't be true, just that that is really the last thing the players should be thinking about right now. Who is this guy that he seems to have this incredible hold on them? Seriously?

I wouldn't be surprised. If it happened last series when Mazzulla wasn't making the needed adjustments or this series as they imploded, emotions run high. From all we've heard, Mazzulla and Udoka had pretty different approaches to leading the team.

 

[Cellar-Door]

Literally not what I said, but how’s the weather from up on that cross?

also... everyone thinks the identity of NBA teams is formed by the coach? I definitely don't think that's something most people think. NFL maybe, but we always talk about teams in the NBA based on their stars. In rare cases you have a star who lets the coach take the lead, but LeBron's teams are all LeBron teams through many coaches, KD teams are KD teams, even the Warriors.. Steph is a pretty quiet, but when push comes to shove it's him not Kerr who sets the tone. NBA coaches have high turnover and can get fired a year or two after winning CoTY or a ring because it's a star league and the star's are the ones who drive the team's identity.

 

[JCizzle]

Whoa, wait a minute. The players got into it with management in the middle of the conference finals? Bad news if this is true.

Yeah I made sure to add the disclaimer that I didn’t hear it myself lol, but a few different people have told me they heard Max say it.

That would be…..less than ideal.

I think I heard on the Simmons/Russillo podcast that Wyc was sitting courtside and told Joe to pull everyone starting in the 4Q and Joe kinda snapped back at him. No matter what the players think about Joe, I can't imagine they're cool with the owner making or influencing in-game decisions. Maybe that's what Max was implying? Maybe they shouldn't have played like ass, but that goes without saying.

 

[Auger34]

Literally not what I said, but how’s the weather from up on that cross?

But what is the Lakers identity and how was that formed by their coach? Green Bay’s before this year? The Red Sox in 2013? Did Farrell form their identity as WA champs and their identity as a last place team?

Good lord dude, really? Up on that cross, I made an incredibly innocuous post, my god. I am not sure what you’re so upset about or how you think I am being a jerk to you in the slightest.
You win, I don’t want to litigate this or anything else. I never meant to offend you or whatever it is that you’ve taken from my postz.

 

[Light-Tower-Power]

I think I heard on the Simmons/Russillo podcast that Wyc was sitting courtside and told Joe to pull everyone starting in the 4Q and Joe kinda snapped back at him. No matter what the players think about Joe, I can't imagine they're cool with the owner making or influencing in-game decisions. Maybe that's what Max was implying? Maybe they shouldn't have played like ass, but that goes without saying.

Yeah, Wyc should never be talking to the coach like that in-game. I hope that's not true either.

 

[Myt1]

also... everyone thinks the identity of NBA teams is formed by the coach? I definitely don't think that's something most people think. NFL maybe, but we always talk about teams in the NBA based on their stars. In rare cases you have a star who lets the coach take the lead, but LeBron's teams are all LeBron teams through many coaches, KD teams are KD teams, even the Warriors.. Steph is a pretty quiet, but when push comes to shove it's him not Kerr who sets the tone. NBA coaches have high turnover and can get fired a year or two after winning CoTY or a ring because it's a star league and the star's are the ones who drive the team's identity.

I think it happens sometimes, and even more often with the benefit of myth-building hindsight cult of personality stuff that follows championships. It might actually be worthy of some interesting discussion in different context (but it’s not remotely worth discussing in this one, which has been really weird).

 

[fairlee76]

The idea that there would be a confrontation about Ime, right now, seems incredibly bizarre to me. Not saying "bizarre" because it can't be true, just that that is really the last thing the players should be thinking about right now. Who is this guy that he seems to have this incredible hold on them? Seriously?

Well, a few of my Boston friends have been telling me for a few years that these guys are massive front-runners. I am coming around to that notion a bit these last few days.

And the pattern of coaches (CBS and now Mazzulla, apparently) "losing" this group seems to speak volumes about the maturity level of some of the guys in the locker room.

Regarding Ime's hold on some of these guys, the cynic in me thinks "ugh, yeah, of course some of these knuckleheads liked/identify with the fact that their coach is a morally corrupt dog" but that might just be the awful taste from this series.

 

[Lazy vs Crazy]

I think I heard on the Simmons/Russillo podcast that Wyc was sitting courtside and told Joe to pull everyone starting in the 4Q and Joe kinda snapped back at him. No matter what the players think about Joe, I can't imagine they're cool with the owner making or influencing in-game decisions. Maybe that's what Max was implying? Maybe they shouldn't have played like ass, but that goes without saying.

I listened to what Max said, he denied Wyc making in game calls (radio hosts said there was video of it though), but said he heard there was a "run-in" between people in upper management and the players. He was clear he didn't have first hand knowledge of it and just heard it happened.

 

[SemperFidelisSox]

Who is this guy that he seems to have this incredible hold on them? Seriously?

Ime’s approach to coaching was all about tough love. For a team that has had maturity issues and shown questionable mental toughness, it’s understandable that they formed a tight bond with someone who took on a more stern father role than Stevens did.