Jaylen Brown, Year 7

Deathofthebambino

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instead he just sounds like he’s pushing the blame on “agendas” instead of taking any sort of self inventory. I hate that and I thought he was better than that honestly
@Myt1 can speak for himself, but I think this has been the core of his point all along.

Maybe Jaylen isn't better than that, because maybe he's just not as intelligent and coherent in his thoughts as "we" made him out to be during the Floyd protests. He certainly seems well versed on the African-American communities issues, and rightfully so, and he's been articulate, deep and intelligent, but he just isn't the same, nor does he appear to have the same level of understanding on a more macro scale when it comes to other oppressed peoples.

It now appears he's taking the "Any condemnation of a black person is an attack on all of us" stance, regardless of whether or not the condemnation is justified.
 

8slim

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Some of us thought that Jaylen cared about social justice, writ large. It's clear he does not. He cares about the black community. That's fine and good. But it's apparent that he doesn't care at all if people within that community activate hate against anyone outside that community.

He continues to support anti-semites so I really don't care to figure out if he "actually is" one or not.
 

tbb345

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@Myt1 can speak for himself, but I think this has been the core of his point all along.

Maybe Jaylen isn't better than that, because maybe he's just not as intelligent and coherent in his thoughts as "we" made him out to be during the Floyd protests. He certainly seems well versed on the African-American communities issues, and rightfully so, and he's been articulate, deep and intelligent, but he just isn't the same, nor does he appear to have the same level of understanding on a more macro scale when it comes to other oppressed peoples.

It now appears he's taking the "Any condemnation of a black person is an attack on all of us" stance, regardless of whether or not the condemnation is justified.
Completely agreed and I just really dislike that type of attitude, I’ve got more to say on it but honestly, this is all exhausting and as a white Christian male I am probably not the best messenger.

I will just say that hate is hate and I don’t think anyone should be amplifying any sort of hate speech no matter what color they are or what they believe in
 

kfoss99

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Some of us thought that Jaylen cared about social justice, writ large. It's clear he does not. He cares about the black community. That's fine and good. But it's apparent that he doesn't care at all if people within that community activate hate against anyone outside that community.

He continues to support anti-semites so I really don't care to figure out if he "actually is" one or not.
You brought up something I've been trying to articulate. He does, legitimately, care and help the black community. He's done a lot of good in that area.

However, he can be pro-black community without being an antisemite. Maybe he'll figure that out for himself, maybe someone can get that point across to him. But right now his behavior is really disappointing.

And I agree, he may not say he's explicitly an antisemite, but actions speak louder than words. And even then, I don't think he's said anything to reassure anyone that he isn't antisemitic. Hell, at this point, Kyrie has probably put more of that work in. Even if due to his suspension.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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Longer video:


Kyrie-esque word vomit aside, he seems to me like someone who is in deeply over his head and would be better served by taking a step back rather than keep digging himself a hole trying to articulate his position. I believe him when he says that his motivation for posting that tweet was to show support for Kyrie's return. He saw an organized group of Black men supporting Kyrie, assumed it was a group from the fraternity he referenced, and ran with it rather than making an effort to understand the real reason that group was outside Barclays. Ignorant and short-sighted to be sure, and he should certainly be admonished for that, but I don't necessarily believe there is a more sinister antisemitic intent behind his tweet. I believe it's a matter of him being so laser focused on issues regarding the black community that he has a big fat blind spot when it comes to other groups. I just hope he educates himself or someone educates him and he makes smarter choices on who and/or what he supports in the future.
 

Marciano490

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I’m not really equipped to start or even frame this discussion, but there’s obviously a history of in power groups setting out of power groups against each other, which creates - if not infighting, a sort of trauma comparison where each group is incentivized to believe they have suffered more or been discriminated against more than others.

Of course, the solution is easy - read a book, but I haven’t seen this overall phenomenon discussed much with regard to Kyrie and JB and it is definitely something that seems prevalent at least in my observations.
 

Caspir

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Along the lines of Marciano’s post above, Diddy posted this video on his IG.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/ClMEx-DDs64/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

As much as I hate short videos on dense topics, if you’re looking for the uber Cliff’s Notes version of this issue in the Black community, this isn’t a bad place to start. In retrospect, my own views on Palestine when I was younger were heavily influenced by being around folks that grew up being systemically marginalized.
 
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The Social Chair

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reassure anyone that he isn't antisemitic. Hell, at this point, Kyrie has probably put more of that work in. Even if due to his suspension.
Jaylen is pretty good at deflecting. He has never clearly answered the question about his vaccination status.
 

Marciano490

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Along the lines of Marciano’s post above, Diddy posted this video on his IG.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/ClMEx-DDs64/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=

As much as I hate short videos in dense topics, if you’re looking for the uber Cliff’s Notes version of this issue in the Black community, this isn’t a bad place to start. In retrospect, my own views on Palestine when I was younger were heavily influenced by being around folks that grew up being systemically marginalized.
This was an excellent video. Thanks for sharing.
 

bankshot1

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For an articulate man who seems to be acutely aware of the pain and dangers of racism and hatred, why was it so fucking hard for JB to have said, "I support Kyrie and his return to the court but can not support or give any credence to the anti-semtic messages he was amplifying as the repercussions of hate lead to no good and only causes pain and more hate" Its not that hard to hold two thoughts re Kyrie. I'm very disappointed in Jaylen Brown and sadly very close to drawing unflattering conclusions.
 

Devizier

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Empathy is a learned trait and lots of people, young and old, struggle with the process of learning it. It’s usually an uncomfortable process. However, ones response to this process is pretty revelatory of their character. Jaylen’s got time, but not forever…
 

jose melendez

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Yeah, he kind of lost me again today. Taking it down would be to reject supporting Kyrie?

I suspect he’s not anti semitic in the “kill them all sense,”. But I am beginning to think he thinks black people are the only victims of prejudice and bigotry, at least in this country. And while it’s true black people have been screwed more royally and consistently than any other group in America, and that elements of Jewish America have tried to hide in whiteness, acting like a black person cant be an antisemite when he does obviously antisemitic stuff is bullshit.

he clearly thinks kyrie didnothing wrong and was railroaded. You can disagree with the suspenation, I guess, especially as a union rep. But thinking what kyrie did was fine is not cool.
 

benhogan

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Longer video:


Kyrie-esque word vomit aside, he seems to me like someone who is in deeply over his head and would be better served by taking a step back rather than keep digging himself a hole trying to articulate his position. I believe him when he says that his motivation for posting that tweet was to show support for Kyrie's return. He saw an organized group of Black men supporting Kyrie, assumed it was a group from the fraternity he referenced, and ran with it rather than making an effort to understand the real reason that group was outside Barclays. Ignorant and short-sighted to be sure, and he should certainly be admonished for that, but I don't necessarily believe there is a more sinister antisemitic intent behind his tweet. I believe it's a matter of him being so laser focused on issues regarding the black community that he has a big fat blind spot when it comes to other groups. I just hope he educates himself or someone educates him and he makes smarter choices on who and/or what he supports in the future.
this is terrible (Jaylen's words), and this situation is getting worse. fuck
 

djbayko

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Yeah, he kind of lost me again today. Taking it down would be to reject supporting Kyrie?

I suspect he’s not anti semitic in the “kill them all sense,”. But I am beginning to think he thinks black people are the only victims of prejudice and bigotry, at least in this country. And while it’s true black people have been screwed more royally and consistently than any other group in America, and that elements of Jewish America have tried to hide in whiteness, acting like a black person cant be an antisemite when he does obviously antisemitic stuff is bullshit.

he clearly thinks kyrie didnothing wrong and was railroaded. You can disagree with the suspenation, I guess, especially as a union rep. But thinking what kyrie did was fine is not cool.
Yeah, he seems to think that it’s an example of black people supporting each other, instead of what it really is - a fringe organization which saw an opportunity to get its message out there. And if they were there to support Kyrie, it isn’t just because he’s black, but because he’s ALSO demonstrated that he’s a believer. At best, a pretty big failure in perception of what’s going on here.
 
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NomarsFool

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If some far-right group were outside Barclays celebrating the return of Kyrie, would JB also like that? Seriously.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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For an articulate man who seems to be acutely aware of the pain and dangers of racism and hatred, why was it so fucking hard for JB to have said, "I support Kyrie and his return to the court but can not support or give any credence to the anti-semtic messages he was amplifying as the repercussions of hate lead to no good and only causes pain and more hate" Its not that hard to hold two thoughts re Kyrie. I'm very disappointed in Jaylen Brown and sadly very close to drawing unflattering conclusions.
Occam's razor? Because that would not be an accurate description of what he believes, is the answer I think is staring us in the face.
 

bankshot1

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Occam's razor? Because that would not be an accurate description of what he believes, is the answer I think is staring us in the face.
Exactly. It is fucking hard to be sincere when you must profess a belief you don't hold. Which leads me to believe he only believes one of those two statements. Which I find disappointing.
 

tbb345

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Yeah, he kind of lost me again today. Taking it down would be to reject supporting Kyrie?

I suspect he’s not anti semitic in the “kill them all sense,”. But I am beginning to think he thinks black people are the only victims of prejudice and bigotry, at least in this country. And while it’s true black people have been screwed more royally and consistently than any other group in America, and that elements of Jewish America have tried to hide in whiteness, acting like a black person cant be an antisemite when he does obviously antisemitic stuff is bullshit.

he clearly thinks kyrie didnothing wrong and was railroaded. You can disagree with the suspenation, I guess, especially as a union rep. But thinking what kyrie did was fine is not cool.
This Is exactly the way I feel.

Jaylen was my favorite player. You can check my posts, a lot of them are defending him and talking about how good of a player he is.

the more that I marinate on his press conference the more out I am and the more fucking disappointed I become.

it’s not hard to condemn hate while still sticking up for the person that you believe your friend is.

To instead bury your head in the sand, contort what YOU tweeted to play the victim and use systemic racism as a shield to ensure you don’t get any pushback is so fucking shitty it’s incredible

EDIT: I just want to add that hate is hate. It’s not a competition of who gets more hate. It’s so goddamn depressing that humanity just can’t have a baseline of “condemn all hate towards groups of people”. I honestly can’t believe this is so hard
 

Ed Hillel

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If that interview was in transcript form and someone sent it to me, I would have assumed it was Kyrie.
 

jose melendez

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I can’t get over how bad the reporters are in the video clip. Just ask direct questions. “Do you believe black people arethe true Jews?” Are Jews responsible for slavery? Do you think Jews are trying to silence Kyrie?
Wjy do you think kyrie was suspended? Do you believe the holocaust happened? And that’s not even getting into Kanye questions.

Jaylen, kyrie, people need to ask them point blank. Don’t ask are you anti semitic? Ask them about specific libels and tropes.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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With social medias echo chambers, empathy no longer exists.

Even if Brown believes that Jewish people stole Israel from Africans, in his mind, that isn't anti-semitic. Hes stating fact. He doesn't realize how hurtful it is to another group.
 

ALiveH

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Jeff Bezos is directly making money off the movie that kyrie linked to on amazon prime and no one seems to care even as he's rumored to be in the running to buy professional sports teams. And the movie is still up on amazon prime. Makes zero sense to me.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Jeff Bezos is directly making money off the movie that kyrie linked to on amazon prime and no one seems to care even as he's rumored to be in the running to buy professional sports teams. And the movie is still up on amazon prime. Makes zero sense to me.
You think Bezos knows every movie that is on his platform?
 

NDame616

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For an articulate man who seems to be acutely aware of the pain and dangers of racism and hatred, why was it so fucking hard for JB to have said, "I support Kyrie and his return to the court but can not support or give any credence to the anti-semtic messages he was amplifying as the repercussions of hate lead to no good and only causes pain and more hate" Its not that hard to hold two thoughts re Kyrie. I'm very disappointed in Jaylen Brown and sadly very close to drawing unflattering conclusions.
I can tell you why but you're not going to like the answer
 

Myt1

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I've already heard the talking point by Stephen A Smith and others several days ago. The whataboutism isn't all that interesting.
I don’t think Smith is a member here, and we’re perfectly capable of thinking about two things at a time. Three, if we include the strawman about whether Bezos “knows every movie on his platform.”

Seriously, I don’t know why you feel so compelled to do that.
 

Caspir

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Aside from the shitty personal views, Jaylen has 55 turnovers and 54 assists. The visions of him doing stupid spin moves and losing the ball in the Finals don’t seem to be anywhere near subsiding. He’s in very rare company, as his A:T ratio is about as good as a center. Unfortunately, he’s a guard.

On the Amazon video, it isn't really whataboutism, and Bezos knows that the video Kyrie watched is on Amazon. The price of said video also went up after the controversy began. It's a little weak to pretend this isn't something he is aware of.
 
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kfoss99

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Aside from the shorty personal views, Jaylen has 55 turnovers and 54 assists. The visions of him doing stupid spin moves and losing the ball in the Finals don’t seem to be anywhere near subsiding. He’s in very rare company, as his A:T ratio is about as good as a center. Unfortunately, he’s a guard.
His 3-point percentage is also at its lowest point since his rookie year, .342. That puts him under the league average of .356.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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I think that's because he's trying to add some new moves to the arsenal like side-steps and step-backs.

The turnovers remain unfortunate and are unlikely to be a problem that has a fix. He is what he is in that regard.
 

RorschachsMask

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Of the guys in the league who have a usage of 30% or higher, only Embiid and PG have a turnover rate higher than Jaylen, whose at a by far career high of 13.7%, while having his lowest assist rate in 3 seasons.

I know he wants the ball in his hands more (he said as much to the media 5 or 6 games back), but I think the offense is much better when that’s not the case. He’s an elite play finisher, lean on that more.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I think that's because he's trying to add some new moves to the arsenal like side-steps and step-backs.

The turnovers remain unfortunate and are unlikely to be a problem that has a fix. He is what he is in that regard.
Early season SSS variance too. He went 0-5 against OKC and 1-5 against ATL last week. The turnovers are frustrating but I'm not sure what can really be done about it. They need him to be aggressive and score, especially when he's out there without Tatum. Maybe he eventually figures out that dribbling into 2 or 3 guys in the lane isn't a great idea and a plays a little smarter but that hasn't happened yet.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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we’re perfectly capable of thinking about two things at a time.
Speak for yourself.

Three, if we include the strawman about whether Bezos “knows every movie on his platform.”
It was an offhand response to an offhand post.

Aside from it being whataboutism - and it is - the idea that it's on Bezos or Amazon to remove, censor, or provide fact-checking for the movies/books they supply feels wrong. And while I don't like the slippery slope argument, trying to strong arm a business into censorship is an idea I'm very wary of for that exact reason.

And if we're going to play the whataboutism game, then focusing on Jeffrey Bezos is either (A) willfully ignoring the scope of players involved or (B) picking low hanging fruit by choosing a target everyone can unify behind. Why isn't the publishing company, G Publishing, being taken to the woodshed? They printed the damn book. Forget about the list of people interviewed or who edited the book/film, most people can't even name the author of the book. Why isn't his name the lede on the front page? There's a cadre of people involved in the creation, publication, and distribution of this book/film. Diverting the focus from Brown/Kyrie onto Bezos may make people feel like they've found the man lurking behind the curtain, but it's just rearranging the deck chairs by shifting responsibility.

Removing books for the publics safety always feels wrong to me. This cause is righteous, but it isn't always. People are already leaning on companies associated with producing educational transgender books for kids. This is one more arrow in the quiver for (A) the mob mentality and (B) a company to cede to public response. In addition, how do you think the maligned group is going to respond to the removal of this book/film? Because it sure feels like something that would cause people to dig in more, which is basically the opposite goal of what we should want here. Unless the goal isn't to educate/unify people, but is to chastise/be right.

So if we don't remove the books, then that leaves providing a fact-check statement at the beginning of the film. First, I doubt the audience who relates to this film is swayed at all by a few lines at the start of it. Secondly, we don't need to look further than the recent purchase of Twitter by Musk - where there's been a surge in fact checks of progressive figures - to see how these types of forced warning labels can go sideways.

It is - as its always been - the responsibility of the person opening their mouth to be sure the things they say/type are accurate. Shifting the focus to Amazon is just another way to remove the responsibility from the person who's being an asshole.
 
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wade boggs chicken dinner

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EDIT: And I want to make something clear, I don’t think Jaylen OR Kyrie are truly anti-Semitic.
I think Kyrie is an extreme narcissist and a doofus and posted something he had no idea about and chose to dig in instead of admitting that he actually didn’t watch the movie and look dumb.
Jaylen I think truly wanted to show support for the community.

but honestly that doesnt matter. The bottom line is that they did amplify the thoughts and views of what is essentially a hate group. The only appropriate response, with their platform, is apologizing and denouncing hate. It’s not twisting yourself into a pretzel talking about communities coming together or whatever bullshit
Disagree with the bolded. Of course it matters whether Jaylen thinks Kyrie is being anti-semitic. JB has said that he doesn't think Kyrie is anti-semitic. So has Adam Silver. And I'm sure that drives his message.

As LTP says below, JB is laser-focused on helping his community. And his community is not a monolith and certainly it can't be argued that some members have anti-semitic beliefs. But at the end of the day, I think it's clear that JB - who knows Kyrie pretty well these days - doesn't think that Kyrie is one of them.

And for people who want JB to clearly condemn anti-semiticism, I'll just note that he made a pretty definitive statement about that when he withdrew from Donda. He said:

I have always, and will always, continue to stand strongly against any antisemitism, hate speech, misrepresentation, and any oppressive rhetoric of any kind. In light of that, after sharing conversations, I now recognize that there are times when my voice and my position can’t coexist in spaces that don’t correspond with my stance or my values. And for that reason, I am terminating my association with Donda Sports.

I believe it's a matter of him being so laser focused on issues regarding the black community that he has a big fat blind spot when it comes to other groups. I just hope he educates himself or someone educates him and he makes smarter choices on who and/or what he supports in the future.
To your last point, I think JB will continue to educate him. I also think that JB will do wonderful things for his community. But at the end of the day, I think JB will be a product of him community, and like all community, the Black communities have problematic (at least to people like us) beliefs and stances.

I think the one thing we should also take into consideration is that JB is forging a path that not that many people have done before him and he's far from a finished product. That means JB could go any number of ways (I mean look at Ali), but when it is all said and done, my hope is that JB leaves a legacy that people will admire, not one that people will scorn.

And I think he can do it but I am realistic enough to know that it could break any number of different ways (fingers crossed).
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I see we've moved on to the good old Elon Musk double down and shit post memes portion of the program. God damn it. I think we all knew something like this was coming the second he latched onto Kanye but I still held out hope he was better than this.
 

Caspir

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The irony is that this is the exact meme conservatives used to trash BLM. Maybe he’s doing a Clerks thing and taking it back?
 

Jed Zeppelin

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It's not that the phenomenon he is shitposting about doesn't happen on social media. Of course it does. The problem is it is wholly disconnected from the issue at hand and shows a continued lack of reckoning with reality.

Nobody, literally nobody, is saying you hate Jewish people because you love and support Black people first and foremost.

It's fucking asinine.