Indy Week
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
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There is no Rev said:
I count:
7 vs. Steelers (scored with 21 secs left down by 14)
Either 19 or 13 vs. Bills (Bills scored to make it 37-19 with 11:42 left in the 4th, not sure if the Pats had eclipsed 99% being up 37-13)
14 vs. Jags (scored down 30-3 and down 51-10)
0 or 6 vs. Colts (depends on whether Pats were over 99% before Colts last score)
I was just going to make the same semantics point. Does garbage time include when a TD has marginal impact on a game that is almost over, or is it limited to situations where a team has lost beyond a reasonable doubt? I favor the latter and hence the Colts' TD was not garbage time.Stitch01 said:
Why are we assuming that this was a play call and not something that Collins just went and did?PC Drunken Friar said:
I know bill referenced in his pressed that the colts like to get low on PATs. But it seems more likely that this was something everyone noticed and Collins likely had leeway to just go do it if he got the right look.
LOL colts
Indianapolis Colts @Colts 1h1 hour ago
. @PatMcAfeeShow clarifies intent of fake punt with a big new detail: http://indcolts.co/vsRTQm pic.twitter.com/gkFvdOjI6c
http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/McAfee-Clarifies-Fake-Punt-Whalen-Wasnt-Original-Center-Explains-Design/a9b75475-9fb8-4692-be8e-83dca04adcc0?sf14332234=1
Indianapolis Colts @Colts 1h1 hour ago
. @PatMcAfeeShow clarifies intent of fake punt with a big new detail: http://indcolts.co/vsRTQm pic.twitter.com/gkFvdOjI6c
The more the Colts explain the play and their intentions, the worse they look. If the normal center for that play is out injured, you would think somebody would pull the new guy aside to get him up to speed.
Pretty excellent breakdown of the Pats adjustment. apologize if already posted.
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/10/19/tom-brady-new-england-patriots-colts-rematch-nfl-week-6
http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2015/10/19/tom-brady-new-england-patriots-colts-rematch-nfl-week-6
You just dont run the play or make it clear that you never snap the ball unless the Pats sub.
The first part of the concept is OK. The Pats have been sort of setting up for something like that the last couple of years. But everything about the execution is terrible and its really on the coaches from what we have read
The first part of the concept is OK. The Pats have been sort of setting up for something like that the last couple of years. But everything about the execution is terrible and its really on the coaches from what we have read
I can't believe the Colts thought this sort of hijinx would work against, of all teams, the Patriots.
Imagine being in the room when they drew this puppy up.
Imagine being in the room when they drew this puppy up.
Well the good news is that they practiced the play. The only wrinkle is that they didn't practice the play with the actual player who had his hands on the ball.
Pagano should make a note to himself about that for future reference. Good learning opportunity for him.
Pagano should make a note to himself about that for future reference. Good learning opportunity for him.
soxhop411 said:
This is hilariously stupid on so many levels.
First, the intent of the play is to get the Patriots to sub their defense onto the field and then snap the ball when the Patriots have 12 guys out there. But the only way you can do that is if the "offense" is lined up correctly and set. So (a) what they're really hoping is to have the Patriots sub the defense before even seeing the Colts offense going out and (b) have the Patriots not notice that there are still two guys lined up in the battery in the middle of the field. It makes very little sense and what you're ultimately hoping for is that the other coaches simply panic. The Patriots are probably the last team in the league you want to try that against.
Second, why the fuck would you call the play when the original center is out of the game? Talk about putting your players into position to fail.
mandro ramtinez said:
Or, you know, scrap the play for a while and try it against Denver in a few weeks.
Holy shit. I didn't buy the whole Pagano deserves to be fired talk, but hearing that it was the backup who had never practiced the play???? That is utterly indefensible and worthy of firing the coach IMO
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
If you watch the tape carefully, knowing what we know now, two things stand out:
- All the Patriots know what their assignments are even after the shift--they have the pointing and role recognition down pat.
- Nobody fucking expected the ball to be snapped. Like, once it is snapped, there is a pause as the guy received it and holds it against his leg for a moment. That's why Bolden--the first to recover--is able to get a jump on everyone.
I'll see if I can put together some tape of this. It's crazy on the replay.
There is no Rev said:
Anderson does a decent job just to secure the ball as the snap isn't very good and he is clearly totally blindsided. That very easily could have been a fumble and the five Patriots in the area would have had a pretty good chance of scooping it up and scoring.
Add in the fact that Zolak said that Bolden told him that Colt Anderson was yelling "Don't snap it! Don't snap it!" to Whalen right before it was actually snapped. Coltstown!!There is no Rev said:
If you watch the tape carefully, knowing what we know now, two things stand out:
- All the Patriots know what their assignments are even after the shift--they have the pointing and role recognition down pat.
- Nobody fucking expected the ball to be snapped. Like, once it is snapped, there is a pause as the guy received it and holds it against his leg for a moment. That's why Bolden--the first to recover--is able to get a jump on everyone.
I'll see if I can put together some tape of this. It's crazy on the replay.
CantKeepmedown said:
Man, that's awful. One of the things I remember learning in signals is never use words like "don't" in instructions - it creates both the risk of being misheard (crowd noise leads Whalen to hear "snap it") and the psychological effect of focusing the listener's mind on the action you are trying to prevent (Whalen's mind needs to think about snapping the ball in order to process "don't snap it").
I'm now just waiting for the following Quote from Griff Whalen: "When I heard him yell 'snap it', I snapped it." Please, God, let this happen.CantKeepmedown said:
Onside kick recovery rate when other team is expecting it is only about 20%.Pandemonium67 said:
Then they have to march down and score with no time outs.
Colts did not have a "decent chance." I think BB made the right choice to eat up the clock.
There is no Rev said:
I was under the impression that Bolden was directing who was gonna cover the snapper and who would take Anderson. I thought Bolden was pointing towards the ball as in "I'm following the ball".
I love this shot because it makes his arm look extra long as they are both pointing towards the ball.
That arrow should be pointing at both defenders.
That arrow should be pointing at both defenders.
SeoulSoxFan said:
The bland running plays also forced the Colts to use all 3 of their timeouts. If the Pats had gone into that drive with the Colts having only 1-2 TOs left the play calling may have been different.
I just listened to the McAfee segment. He keeps calling it a miscommunication because Whalen wasn't there when they installed the audible. That isn't miscommunication. That is dumbfuckery.
I can't wait for Pagano's press conference tomorrow where he gets grilled having to explain why he tried a trick play with a guy who didn't know the play - and then said he absolutely did not regret the call.
Whoever said this win was better than winning like 49-0 is right. This is amazing.
But it's the PSI, guys, right?
I can't wait for Pagano's press conference tomorrow where he gets grilled having to explain why he tried a trick play with a guy who didn't know the play - and then said he absolutely did not regret the call.
Whoever said this win was better than winning like 49-0 is right. This is amazing.
But it's the PSI, guys, right?
Can't help but laugh anytime someone suggests nefarious plots to cheat during SB38 given the Panthers' locker room that season was basically an open-air steroid market.drleather2001 said:
Its getting to the point where I'd actually like to see the Patriots run this play later in the season just so that they can execute it well.
I'd gladly take a spite 5 yard delay of game penalty at some point this season just to rub that Colts noses in it.
I'd gladly take a spite 5 yard delay of game penalty at some point this season just to rub that Colts noses in it.
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
At the very least, it would be funny to have nine guys check in for a few punts as ineligible.
( . ) ( . ) and (_!_) said:
Jimbodandy said:
From a fan's point of view, absolutely, but one of the main reasons BB is so successful and we all love him so much is that he would never even entertain the idea. The Patriots get into other teams heads. Other teams don't get into BB's head.
Contrarian viewpoint - and I say this as a Pats fan that is loving every second of the Colts being a laughingstock and getting piled on.
IF the Colts had lined up correctly on the right side (on the line of scrimmage), the Pats were running around a little bit getting set. There was a window of oppty to snap the ball and sneak forward for 3-4 yards around the 7 to 9 second mark.
Granted, it was still shitty coaching (particularly with the info that Whalen didn't practice the play all week). Also wouldn't expect them to shelve this play for later - there is no next week. This was their Super Bowl.
IF the Colts had lined up correctly on the right side (on the line of scrimmage), the Pats were running around a little bit getting set. There was a window of oppty to snap the ball and sneak forward for 3-4 yards around the 7 to 9 second mark.
Granted, it was still shitty coaching (particularly with the info that Whalen didn't practice the play all week). Also wouldn't expect them to shelve this play for later - there is no next week. This was their Super Bowl.
Cool explanation from Bruschi on the "tell" that Collins used to time the leap towards the end of today's chat: http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/boston/chat/_/id/51998
If the Colts are lined up correctly and the Pats are scrambling BB just burns a timeout.
I don't really see it to be honest. There are still two guys in the vicinity and the "QB" isn't in position to take the snap at any point where they have numbers on the Pats.
I don't really see it to be honest. There are still two guys in the vicinity and the "QB" isn't in position to take the snap at any point where they have numbers on the Pats.
Polly: Vermin is going to kill Johnny's brother at the Savoy theater, pass it on.
Prisoner: Vermin is going to kill Johnny's brother at the Savoy theater tonight, pass it on.
Prisoner: Vermin is going to kill Johnny's mother at the Savoy theater tonight, pass it on.
Prisoner: Vermin's mother is going to kill Johnny tonight at the Savoy theater, pass it on.
Prisoner: There's a message an the grapevine, Johnny.
Johnny: "Yeah? What is it?
Prisoner: Johnny and the Mothers are playin' Stompin' at the Savoy in Vermont tonight.
Johnny: Vermin's going to kill my brother at the Savoy theater tonight!
Prisoner: I didn't say that.
Johnny: No, but I know this grapevine.
Prisoner: Vermin is going to kill Johnny's brother at the Savoy theater tonight, pass it on.
Prisoner: Vermin is going to kill Johnny's mother at the Savoy theater tonight, pass it on.
Prisoner: Vermin's mother is going to kill Johnny tonight at the Savoy theater, pass it on.
Prisoner: There's a message an the grapevine, Johnny.
Johnny: "Yeah? What is it?
Prisoner: Johnny and the Mothers are playin' Stompin' at the Savoy in Vermont tonight.
Johnny: Vermin's going to kill my brother at the Savoy theater tonight!
Prisoner: I didn't say that.
Johnny: No, but I know this grapevine.
That ITP picture looks like the 2-on-2 ganmes I played in in the schoolyard in Brooklyn. Except that Bolden and Bostic would have to count to 5 Mississippi before rushing, and Anderson could have thrown the self-pass over the onrushing Bolden's head and caught it on the other side.
singaporesoxfan said:
IIRC John Madden wrote in one of his books that the keyword to tell a kick returner not to try to take a ball out of the endzone was "stay" or something like that. Never "no", because that sounds too much like "go".
tims4wins said:
Great post. People just don't want to admit that Bill Belichick is significantly better at this whole coaching an NFL team thing than they are (or than their favorite team's coach is). He prepares them better, he's smarter, he is a better leader, he not only has a greater vision, but is a master of every detail. And unlike what people think, largely due to his press conferences and stupid statements like Tom Jackson's "they hate their coach", his players will run through a wall for him. He is simply on another level, and that is seen every week by watching other teams in the NFL. He's not perfect, obviously, and makes his share of mistakes. But he is far and away the best at what he does. And they can't handle the truth, so they resort to "cheating cheating cheating!" rhetoric.
But my goodness, they point to things like the headsets going bad in Foxboro (an NFL problem, not NE's), or the tricky formations vs. Baltimore ("nobody has ever seen that before"...except yes they HAVE, Mr. Harbaugh), or when players whine and say "It's like they knew what we were running", when in fact, they probably DID know what you were running because they've SEEN IT ON FILM AND PRACTICED IT, like the Malcolm Butler super bowl INT. I could go on and on.
At some point people need to just come to grips with the fact that he is simply a superior football coach, a superior football mind. And that's that.
Indeed. I bet they are having a few extra practice drills of opponent onside kicks from conventional formations this week.
loshjott said:
Did they ever explain why they took a delay of game penalty coming off a TO that turned a 2nd and 4 into a 2nd and 9?
That was the second worst gaff of the game, especially when you have a TO to burn.
That was something I expect from Andy Reid, not Bill and Brady.
This gift that keeps on giving also mutes an element of surprise in the Colts special teams playbook.
Everyone on earth now devotes a tiny percentage of prep with the flashing neon-sign awareness that the Colts looooove to go-go-gadget things and stuff. So it's tougher for them to cook one up and execute it successfully down the road when they actually need it next time.
This is slightly different than that Jets "hiding in the end zone receiving the kickoff" gambit, because it's not mandatory to return kickoffs that way. But this was a fake punt, so "watch the fake" is getting drilled into any teams playing the Colts. Their degree of difficulty increases.
In stark contrast to last year's Edelman TD pass to Amendola, which had the built-in failsafe of Amendola waving off the play if the defense wasn't ideal, thus saving the surprise for when they absolutely needed it against BAL.
Everyone on earth now devotes a tiny percentage of prep with the flashing neon-sign awareness that the Colts looooove to go-go-gadget things and stuff. So it's tougher for them to cook one up and execute it successfully down the road when they actually need it next time.
This is slightly different than that Jets "hiding in the end zone receiving the kickoff" gambit, because it's not mandatory to return kickoffs that way. But this was a fake punt, so "watch the fake" is getting drilled into any teams playing the Colts. Their degree of difficulty increases.
In stark contrast to last year's Edelman TD pass to Amendola, which had the built-in failsafe of Amendola waving off the play if the defense wasn't ideal, thus saving the surprise for when they absolutely needed it against BAL.
If the Colts want a silver lining to that fake punt, it's: at least we learned how God-aweful a stupid f'n play that was in a game we were going to lose anyway, instead of saving it for a game we could actually win.
I'd save it for the playoffs. They're the favorite to win their division regardless and they already had two losses which makes getting a bye tough even if they beat NE. They put a ton of focus on the game because it's NE, but a playoff game against the Jets or whoever is probably a much better place to use your trick play. Or a game later in the season when the playoff picture is clearer.pappymojo said:
I mean, BB practiced the Edelman double pass in training camp but kept it in his pocket all year until being down in the playoffs to a tough team, even though they started the season slow and had plenty of tough opponents.