I Believe in Time Lord...Why Can't You?

TripleOT

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TL played mostly mop up minutes, but his Block% would have been the highest of all time for a rookie if he played enough minutes and blocked shots at the same rate. Of course, many of those blocks were in garbage time.

TL blocked a higher percentage of shots than MR, 12.5% to 10%, and blocked shots at a higher rate, 5.1/36min to 4.3/36min for Robinson. Williams' 1.3 bpg would have tied for 17th most in the league, and he got them in 8.8 mpg. I'm looking forward to him blocking a ton of shots if he can get on the floor for 20 minutes a game this season.
 

128

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TL played mostly mop up minutes, but his Block% would have been the highest of all time for a rookie if he played enough minutes and blocked shots at the same rate. Of course, many of those blocks were in garbage time.

TL blocked a higher percentage of shots than MR, 12.5% to 10%, and blocked shots at a higher rate, 5.1/36min to 4.3/36min for Robinson. Williams' 1.3 bpg would have tied for 17th most in the league, and he got them in 8.8 mpg. I'm looking forward to him blocking a ton of shots if he can get on the floor for 20 minutes a game this season.
I'm looking forward to him blocking shots without automatically trying to send them into the fifth row. He would benefit from studying film of Bill Russell's defense.
 

bowiac

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Yeah, Williams obviously only played under 300 minutes, almost all in garbage time. His block rate was good, although the Celtics recovered fewer than half of them. Robinson played five times as many minutes, and the Knicks recovered 60% of his blocks (though I'm not sure how meaningful this stat is regardless).
 

benhogan

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NMot really seeing any instinctual play there to be honest. Looks like his length and athleticism is what got him that bucket
So many good feelings with these Celtics. All these rookies are on fire (Edwards, Waters, Grant, etc), Brown/Tatum looking like they are taking the next step, Kemba in full Kumbaya mode, Hayward fully healthy, Theis taking over the 5, Kanter fine with playing 2nd unit minutes, etc, etc, etc

TimeLord is by far the biggest disappointment. He didn't show much in Summer Ball or preseason. Still nervous and awkward on the floor. Some have speculated on minutes at Maine (I don't see that). After him Semi (still clumsy and robotic) and Langford (injuries) have done nothing to really inspire.
 

joe dokes

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TimeLord is by far the biggest disappointment. He didn't show much in Summer Ball or preseason. Still nervous and awkward on the floor. Some have speculated on minutes at Maine (I don't see that). After him Semi (still clumsy and robotic) and Langford (injuries) have done nothing to really inspire.
Semi's roster spot has to be vulnerable; is TL's?
 

benhogan

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Semi's roster spot has to be vulnerable; is TL's?
I think Semi is more vulnerable but still makes the roster. TL has way too much potential.

The Celtics would have too many new players/rookies if they got rid of Semi for a Green or Strus IMO. The team needs some continuity and Semi is cheap, familiar with the system and strong. By Dec 15th he could be added salary in a deal.
 

chilidawg

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One of TL's problems has been a series of minor injuries that keep him from establishing continuity and rhythm, which is key for a raw young player. Concussion just the latest, but it seems like it's always something.

No way his roster spot is in jeopardy, too much potential.
 

lovegtm

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If anything, the team showed in preseason that they want to give him minutes with the starters/good bench as much as possible. He's clearly a priority, despite the lack of rapid progress. It's also worth noting that defense at the 5 is harder and often takes guys more years to get comfortable with.
 

128

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TimeLord is by far the biggest disappointment. He didn't show much in Summer Ball or preseason. Still nervous and awkward on the floor. Some have speculated on minutes at Maine (I don't see that). After him Semi (still clumsy and robotic) and Langford (injuries) have done nothing to really inspire.
Did you catch the first preseason game vs. the Cavs? Williams played really well in that one. He gobbled up rebounds and resisted the temptation to leave his feet on defense.
 

benhogan

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Did you catch the first preseason game vs. the Cavs? Williams played really well in that one. He gobbled up rebounds and resisted the temptation to leave his feet on defense.
He had a grand total of 8 rebounds in 3 preseason games against some weak frontlines. He's not a threat of hitting a shot outside the paint and he doesn't have much heft to move classic centers down low. I'm not saying cut him (or stick him in Maine) but not sure why you'd play him over Theis at the moment. Kanter (adv offensive skills) and Poirier (7' and strong/aggressive) have a reason to be on the floor.

TL will get his minutes since BIGs constantly get dinged up but color me disappointed with his play in Vegas/Preseason after he worked his azz off at the Auerbach Center all Summer. Maybe my expectations were too high? Hopefully, he'll settle into a role once the season starts.
 

lovegtm

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He had a grand total of 8 rebounds in 3 preseason games against some weak frontlines. He's not a threat of hitting a shot outside the paint and he doesn't have much heft to move classic centers down low. I'm not saying cut him (or stick him in Maine) but not sure why you'd play him over Theis at the moment. Kanter (adv offensive skills) and Poirier (7' and strong/aggressive) have a reason to be on the floor.

TL will get his minutes since BIGs constantly get dinged up but color me disappointed with his play in Vegas/Preseason after he worked his azz off at the Auerbach Center all Summer. Maybe my expectations were too high? Hopefully, he'll settle into a role once the season starts.
Yeah, I think your expectations for the development timeline of a raw big who's injured a lot are too high.
 

lovegtm

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It's kind of funny to watch TL not blocking anything now because the coaching staff is clearly trying to get him to stop jump for everything. So now he's getting blown by.

I'm encouraged by the coachability ,and he already looks less lost on offense, but it's going to be a process. Looks like the team is committed to gradually getting him minutes though, which is more important than November wins.
 

Imbricus

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Between Semi and Time Lord, the Celtics have a strange pair. Semi's a master of moving his feet laterally to get in front of a guy, but is slow to jump to get a block. Time Lord's a master of jumping to get a block, but is slow to move his feet laterally to get in front a guy. I'm not keen on Semi, but am hopeful on Time Lord; I agree he's a work in progress but it's only his second year and he seems to be making good progress.
 

lovegtm

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Surprised there's not more TL love here. He's looking more competent and under control with every game; looks like things are slowing down for him.
 

Eddie Jurak

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He’s been a real mixed bag so far. Utterly clueless about defensive positioning, still. That potentially fatal flaw aside, he’s been decent. Brad has been very careful with his minutes. He has really flashed some court vision and passing skills at the offensive end.

My verdict is that he’s done some nice things but is still a project.

The guy who has been a revelation at C so far has been the other Williams.
 

lovegtm

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He’s been a real mixed bag so far. Utterly clueless about defensive positioning, still. That potentially fatal flaw aside, he’s been decent. Brad has been very careful with his minutes. He has really flashed some court vision and passing skills at the offensive end.

My verdict is that he’s done some nice things but is still a project.

The guy who has been a revelation at C so far has been the other Williams.
Yes, Grant should pretty clearly be playing 30+/game, and is the guy I would want out there with the game on the line at C right now.

TL is definitely a project, and when a guy is a project it's encouraging to see him make incremental improvement, even if he still has holes.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Funny everyone is down on TL but - understanding that this is SSSS (SuperSSS) - TL leads or is tied for the lead in every advanced stat for BOS. He's #1 by far in ORtg; #1 (non-Tacko division) in DRtg; obviously #1 in NRtg; #1 in BPM; and tied for #1 in VORP and WS.

To my eye, the 134 ORtg is surprising but the 88 DRtg is legit. The Cs are really hard to score on when TL is in the game. Plus he's averaging 5 steals per 100 possessions; which means he's doing more than just blocking shots.

The ORtg must be due in large part that the Cs perimeter strength opens up the rim for him, either on lobs or put-backs.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I’m down on his immediate readiness for starter-level minutes against other teams’ starters.

And on his current ability to keep his man in front of him.

Nonetheless, I am impressed by his ability to contribute in a more limited role.

And even more so by his ability to see and make some difficult passes in the offensive end.
 

Jimbodandy

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He got suckered a few times on Saturday like last year's TL, but overall he is still way ahead of where he was. I'd love to see them continuing with the developmental minutes, except where matchups are really bad for him.
 

PedrosRedGlove

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It's funny how clueless he can be defensively contrasted with how quick and decisive he is making those difficult passes on the offensive end when the ball does find its way to him. Gives me some hope that the game will slow down for him defensively, as he gets more comfortable with all the responsibilities placed on him as an NBA rim protector.
 

chilidawg

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Funny everyone is down on TL but - understanding that this is SSSS (SuperSSS) - TL leads or is tied for the lead in every advanced stat for BOS. He's #1 by far in ORtg; #1 (non-Tacko division) in DRtg; obviously #1 in NRtg; #1 in BPM; and tied for #1 in VORP and WS.

To my eye, the 134 ORtg is surprising but the 88 DRtg is legit. The Cs are really hard to score on when TL is in the game. Plus he's averaging 5 steals per 100 possessions; which means he's doing more than just blocking shots.

The ORtg must be due in large part that the Cs perimeter strength opens up the rim for him, either on lobs or put-backs.
He's also 2nd on the team in assist %, which might explain the high O rating. Solid start for Robert.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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He's also 2nd on the team in assist %, which might explain the high O rating. Solid start for Robert.
Not only that, he's #1 in DRB% (Tacko and Green); #1 in STL%; and #2 in Block%. And he's only averaging 2.0 fouls per game.

He's light-years better than he was last year and hopefully by the end of this season, he'll have shown that this improvement is consistent.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I’m down on his immediate readiness for starter-level minutes against other teams’ starters.

And on his current ability to keep his man in front of him.
You mentioned this in the Grant Williams thread and specifically cited Mitchell Robinson as someone RW was having difficulties staying in front of. so I went back to look at Robinson's highlights from that game (posted below). Here are Robinson's points:

Basket #1: RW switches onto Barrett, who shuffles pass to Robinson for the slam. RW forced Barrett out of bounds.
Basket #2: RW goes to block a shot and Robinson cleans up. RW shouldn't have gone for the block (see below).
Basket #3: Robinson offensive rebound. RW had switched onto guard so nowhere near play.
FTs: RW not in game
Basket #4: RW goes to double Morris, who dishes to Robinson for layup. RW might not have doubled Morris there.
Basket #5: Alley-oop to Robinson; RW not in game.
Basket #6: Robinson on dunk after airball; outmuscled RW for position
Basket #7: Robinson dunk after RW steps up to stop Randle when he gets the ball in paint. I expect RW played that correctly; give Knicks credit.

In fact, the only guy I can remember consistently beating RW is Siakam, and Siakam (as of last check) has more baskets than anyone else in the league so he's made a few people look bad.

I agree that RW has to get better about not jumping himself out of position looking for blocks that have no chance but he's ways better than he was last year.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgNbDJxRSIs
 

NomarsFool

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I've been pleasantly surprised with TL's play in this very early season. It seems like he is really starting to get worked into the offense as an occasional rim runner. My impression is that he looks more comfortable setting screens than he looked last year (totally subjective of course).

Honestly, I don't know what the best path forward would be for his development. I think he's ready to play 10-15 minutes a game in the NBA, but the Celtics do have a lot of big men. With Theis and Kanter (and on some nights GW) ahead of him on the depth chart, it might be hard to find 10-15 minutes for him. Then you also have Poirier - and I don't feel like we've seen enough to be able to tell what he can do. So, maybe Maine is the best place for him - but I do like the idea of RW getting the experience of the walk-throughs and the coaching advice he would get with the Celtics. Hard to weigh that vs. the additional experience in Maine against inferior talent.
 

RetractableRoof

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I agree, I'm not sure the G league is enough of a developmental league to send some players to. I don't follow it closely enough to know of many big men who have significantly grown as a result of time there. It doesn't seem to have benefited any Celtic projects.

I'd guess the 1 on 1 time with Jay Larranaga would be just as advantageous for him (and Fall as well). He has to polish his individual skills, his team responsibilities, then any team by team scouting adjustments. That's a tall order by any measure - I think as management I'd want someone with such a high ceiling with the NBA team at this point in his development curve.

Personally I think I'd be watching non-stop video of Tim Duncan with my eyes glued to his footwork, angles, etc. Like toothpicks propping my eyes open 24x7 video study. But he's there and I'm here and I don't know what a mile in his shoes feels like. Edit: I'd also be trying like hell to work with Grant as much as possible to pick his brain to learn the why's and when's of what he is seeing.
 

benhogan

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I've been pleasantly surprised with TL's play in this very early season. It seems like he is really starting to get worked into the offense as an occasional rim runner. My impression is that he looks more comfortable setting screens than he looked last year (totally subjective of course).

Honestly, I don't know what the best path forward would be for his development. I think he's ready to play 10-15 minutes a game in the NBA, but the Celtics do have a lot of big men. With Theis and Kanter (and on some nights GW) ahead of him on the depth chart, it might be hard to find 10-15 minutes for him. Then you also have Poirier - and I don't feel like we've seen enough to be able to tell what he can do. So, maybe Maine is the best place for him - but I do like the idea of RW getting the experience of the walk-throughs and the coaching advice he would get with the Celtics. Hard to weigh that vs. the additional experience in Maine against inferior talent.
WBCD has shown that TL is adding value in his small minutes in Boston, so he is earning his spot. TL needs consistent time in Boston to gain familiarity with his new teammates. His main job on offense is to move the ball to the open teammates at the top, set picks/screens, roll to the rim for dunks or OffReb. He doesn't need a post-up game or launch mid-range jumpers, the Celtics will always have more efficient offensive shooters on the floor with him.

I'd also like to see TL play minutes with Grant, since I believe GW needs 25-30mpg. Grants' strength & ability to draw charges in the lane should slow down rim approaches. TL's hops and ability to swat would also dissuade rim attacks, and I believe they would complement each other on the defensive end. On offense, they can be effective screen setters for horns sets* with Kemba that worked so well for IT4

Plus Kanter/Theis are already banged up, so we actually need TL.

TL won't be able to learn the above by playing in Maine IMO. He'd probably just spend time slamming dunks over inferior G-league big man which does nothing for his development. Rob Williams already knows how to dunk.


https://www.celticsblog.com/2019/10/26/20933273/how-kemba-walker-got-his-groove-back-boston-celtics-toronto-raptors-horns
 
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ggreene

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Plus Kanter/Theis are already banged up, so we actually need TL.
TL has definitely looked better this year. This is a chance for him to step up and show what he can do. My only fear is that usually when TL gets more playing time he ends up with a knee sprain.
 

HomeRunBaker

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It's funny how clueless he can be defensively contrasted with how quick and decisive he is making those difficult passes on the offensive end when the ball does find its way to him. Gives me some hope that the game will slow down for him defensively, as he gets more comfortable with all the responsibilities placed on him as an NBA rim protector.
Like many young bigs without much experience in NBA defensive schemes he is going to struggle when he doesn't have a natural inclination in this area. Remember they played a lot of zone, on both ends of the floor, at A&M with his twin tower mate Tyler Davis. I say it all the time but when a player stops "thinking" on the floor and begins "reacting" it is a major leap for him since the game moves to fast to be able to think on the floor. The more reps he gets the more natural his actions should be and the more reactive they are. This is what growth in a player looks like.

All of this stuff aside from using his natural athletic ability to block shots is new to him. This stuff is going to take time which is why a young bigs work ethic, mental prep, and commitment to his craft is soooooo important to his development. He's looked a ton better this year which is what you'd expect in his second year......had his second year flatlined like say a Ju'Juan Johnson we'd have reason to be concerned.
 

lovegtm

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Like many young bigs without much experience in NBA defensive schemes he is going to struggle when he doesn't have a natural inclination in this area. Remember they played a lot of zone, on both ends of the floor, at A&M with his twin tower mate Tyler Davis. I say it all the time but when a player stops "thinking" on the floor and begins "reacting" it is a major leap for him since the game moves to fast to be able to think on the floor. The more reps he gets the more natural his actions should be and the more reactive they are. This is what growth in a player looks like.

All of this stuff aside from using his natural athletic ability to block shots is new to him. This stuff is going to take time which is why a young bigs work ethic, mental prep, and commitment to his craft is soooooo important to his development. He's looked a ton better this year which is what you'd expect in his second year......had his second year flatlined like say a Ju'Juan Johnson we'd have reason to be concerned.
Agree with all of this. I also think that the team knows that it’s hard to groove good habits without reinforcement, which is why TL is higher than Poirier on the depth chart now. It seems that the plan is to work in one new thing at a time, and then let him try it out in live games immediately. Also gives him the positive feedback of playing time as a reward for doing things differently than he’s done his whole life. It’s a solid incremental approach, hopefully it works out.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Honestly, I don't know what the best path forward would be for his development. I think he's ready to play 10-15 minutes a game in the NBA, but the Celtics do have a lot of big men. With Theis and Kanter (and on some nights GW) ahead of him on the depth chart, it might be hard to find 10-15 minutes for him. Then you also have Poirier - and I don't feel like we've seen enough to be able to tell what he can do. So, maybe Maine is the best place for him - but I do like the idea of RW getting the experience of the walk-throughs and the coaching advice he would get with the Celtics. Hard to weigh that vs. the additional experience in Maine against inferior talent.
TL has played 10:46, 14:39, and 21:44. I think he's shown he belongs on the NBA floor and he's only going to learn if he plays against NBA players.

Part of developing players is living through mistakes and hopefully some of the ones he's making now he won't be making in the spring of next year.
 

HomeRunBaker

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TL has played 10:46, 14:39, and 21:44. I think he's shown he belongs on the NBA floor and he's only going to learn if he plays against NBA players.

Part of developing players is living through mistakes and hopefully some of the ones he's making now he won't be making in the spring of next year.
He belongs on the floor based on a limited number of matchups. The 21:44 really was a product of him having a favorable physical matchup with Mitchell Robinson whereas tomorrow in Milwaukee his minutes should be limited. He can be a nice matchup big for Brad to utilize but I'm guessing you'd see more games around the 10-12 minute mark opposed to the other nights 21.
 

chilidawg

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He belongs on the floor based on a limited number of matchups. The 21:44 really was a product of him having a favorable physical matchup with Mitchell Robinson whereas tomorrow in Milwaukee his minutes should be limited. He can be a nice matchup big for Brad to utilize but I'm guessing you'd see more games around the 10-12 minute mark opposed to the other nights 21.
Kanter is out and Theis questionable, so I think we'll see a decent amount of TL against the Bucks.

I'm not sure why he'd not be a good matchup against the Lopezii, a highly switchable defense seems the best way to stay with those guys on the perimeter, and I don't see either as much of a low post presence.
 

benhogan

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TL has definitely looked better this year. This is a chance for him to step up and show what he can do. My only fear is that usually when TL gets more playing time he ends up with a knee sprain.
If that happens we'll be glad they put Tacko on a two-way in lieu of Strus.

With wings/PGs relentlessly trying to get downhill and attack the rim for a layup/FTs the Center is a sitting duck.
 

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He belongs on the floor based on a limited number of matchups. The 21:44 really was a product of him having a favorable physical matchup with Mitchell Robinson whereas tomorrow in Milwaukee his minutes should be limited. He can be a nice matchup big for Brad to utilize but I'm guessing you'd see more games around the 10-12 minute mark opposed to the other nights 21.
This.

I'm bought in on TL staying here for minutes (you guys convinced me), but those 20min games will be spotty. Good matchups like Robinson or when other bigs are dinged up.
 

Koufax

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I know that +/- is of limited value, but I'll throw this out there. Currently Time Lord is fourth on the team in +/-, ahead of Jaylen Brown and every other bench player including Marcus Smart. In other threads, folks are wondering what center to trade for. I think that developing Time Lord is the best bet. He is athletic and tall. My heart tells me that he just needs some playing time and coaching, which he is now getting. My head tells me that he needs to develop a shot, but I am hoping that is in the works as we speak.
 

lars10

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I know that +/- is of limited value, but I'll throw this out there. Currently Time Lord is fourth on the team in +/-, ahead of Jaylen Brown and every other bench player including Marcus Smart. In other threads, folks are wondering what center to trade for. I think that developing Time Lord is the best bet. He is athletic and tall. My heart tells me that he just needs some playing time and coaching, which he is now getting. My head tells me that he needs to develop a shot, but I am hoping that is in the works as we speak.
Being surrounded by so many players that can shoot limits his need to shoot. I haven’t watched him a lot on offense, but how are his post moves? In the games I’ve seen he’s mostly a rebounding/ putback/alley oop kind of player. Do you want him to shoot from outside? Because I think he’s best where he is at 10’ and in.
 

mostman

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I watched him a lot last night and the thing that immediately stood out to me was how good of a screener he is at the top. Just natural instinctive movement and good decision making. It was fun to watch. Then Poirier came in and was basically the opposite.
 

lovegtm

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He could never make a shot outside 5 feet his whole career and still be a $30M+ player if he were elite defensively. Vertical spacing is real.

I’m a big TL fan, but the reason people want a center is that the league is so wide open this year. The Celtics could realistically win a championship (low odds but definitely non-zero) if they had someone to bang with a few key matchups. Toronto never gets past Philly last year without Gasol. I don’t see TL being ready for that this season.

Then there’s a different question: how many marginal regular season games would you be willing to lose to get TL heavy development minutes? I’d be totally fine winning 49 rather than 55 games if it meant he was better late in the season and next year. (Numbers hypothetical, I know they wouldn’t be that extreme).
 

joe dokes

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To my eyes, it's his offense that has improved the most. Not that he can shoot or has any moves; its just that he seems to be able to keep the offense flowing, whether by passing or screening, pretty seamlessly. Last year, he seemed clueless within the offense.
Defensively, he now seems lost about one quarter of the time which is better than last year's three-quarters of the time.
I'm far more optimistic that he can be a useful contributor than I was 6 months ago.
 

Valek123

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The Athletic's Take on Timelord

Their take in "an attempted" nutshell:

He's raw defensively, but making major improvements in fundamentals and movement. The C's tend to rebound significantly worse with him in their than Theis. But he appears to be learning quickly and his development could well be the piece that is missing from the team making the leap.

My take-away: If you have ESPN paid content but not The Athletic - cancel ESPN and switch.
 

jmcc5400

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He's such a puppy: that rebound and hasty outlet at the end of the half last night that led to a Charlotte 3 was hilarious - as long as it happens against Charlotte. But he is so improved. Decisive on offense and active on defense - lots and lots of deflections along with the blocks. Fun with small numbers, but his offensive/defensive ratings per 100 possession are 127/89 and it's not all garbage time. He still has many many flaws, but it's hard not to be optimistic about his progress.