Except, you know, Craig is a former MVP candidate.mikeford said:Craig is basically Mike Carp until he proves he can rebound from foot surgery
I am not a fan of this deal. At all.
Except, you know, Craig is a former MVP candidate.mikeford said:Craig is basically Mike Carp until he proves he can rebound from foot surgery
I am not a fan of this deal. At all.
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
This is true, but Craig is at a position where it's relatively easier to find 2-3 win players and where we already have players, and Lackey plays a position that's much harder to fill -- and where we are currently thin.
I'm not trying to dump on the trade, for sure, but I'm still a bit unclear how Cespedes and Craig both fit in given the current roster.
pjr said:https://twitter.com/JeffPassan/status/494889906653900800
Jeff PassanVerified account @JeffPassan 11m
Red Sox are sending around $1.75M to the Cardinals. Final trade: John Lackey and ~$1.75M to St. Louis for Allen Craig and Joe Kelly.
FanSinceBoggs said:And the Red Sox gave up a prospect as well as money. The Cardinals fleeced us. And how many right-handed bats are we going to have in the starting lineup?
Drek717 said:Says the person defiling the Black Flag logo like so many other internet douches three years ago.
Why not debate the merits of the post? I live in St. Louis, I've watched both guys coming back quite a bit. Craig was a good buy low option, Lackey isn't buying low. Kelly isn't going to survive in the AL.
I like the Cespedes deal. That works in a lot of ways. Making this deal period doesn't, making when they already have Cespedes makes it even worse.
pokey_reese said:How does a guy like Kelly only strike out 6 guys per 9? with 3 BBs? Even last year, with his 2.69 ERA he was only a 0.5 WAR player over 124 innings. I guess he could be a decent #4/5 guy in the AL, but isn't that what our organization is already full of? It will be fun seeing all of the AAA opening day rotation up next week though.
Fleeced us? Is John Lackey Pedro in his prime? He wasn't pitching here at 500k next year, either.FanSinceBoggs said:And the Red Sox gave up a prospect as well as money. The Cardinals fleeced us. And how many right-handed bats are we going to have in the starting lineup?
Drek717 said:The odds that Kelly posts a 6.00 ERA the rest of the way and is off the club by opening day 2015, and that Craig continues to show zero power and toil away as a limited 1B/LF with a sub .700 OPS are both pretty high.
Joshv02 said:The Red Sox picked up two guys with career 120 OPS+. The rest of their team has two such players for either their career or this year.
Kelly is a 6-1, 185 pound right-handed hitter and thrower, born June 9, 1988. His key pitch is his fastball, clocked as high as 98-100 MPH when used in relief. It is a consistent 91-95 MPH pitch as a starter. The fastball has unusually strong sinking movement; sometimes it moves like a splitter. His secondary pitches are a slider, a curveball, and a changeup. These all have their moments, but none of them are dominant pitches and ultimately he lives and dies with the sinker. His strikeout rates were adequate in the lower minors, but he fanned just 5.60 per nine innings in Triple-A. On the other hand, he showed the best control of his professional life this spring, a major reason for his step forward.
Many scouts still see Kelly as a reliever in the long run, fearing that his secondary pitches will be overexposed as a starter, or that his non-textbook mechanics (his arm action is long) could lead to durability problems. While these concerns are understandable, he's shown steady improvement and deserves a shot in the rotation. Kelly could be a very solid inning-eating ground ball machine.
First-game starter Joe Kelly is considered by scouts to have an above average fastball, curveball and changeup. “He’s a very athletic pitcher and his command has gotten better,” one scout said. “But it looks like he can get a little hyper at times.”
Chuck Z said:
I do think Craig's contract is better than what you'd pay for similar players out there right now, so I think that has some attractiveness for the Sox. I also think that given the depth of pitching in Pawtucket, and what you generally see from development, there's a chance you see 1-2 of those guys end up as 2-3 win pitchers at a much lower cost than Lackey for a significantly longer time period. So I would rather see the Sox take on contracts where they don't have the ability to produce those players going forward. I do think the OF logjam is probably something that will be addressed by the end of the day, otherwise I'm just as confused as you with regards to that aspect of it.
johnnywayback said:Usually, when you're a buyer, you're trading future assets for present value. These two deals are the 2015 Red Sox buying a revitalized middle of the order, except they're trading past assets for present value. Love. It.
FarvinMoosey said:
And Darwin has been in the top 1000 male baby names for the last 14 years in the US.
Things I've learned on this board today:Craig is basically Mike Carp until he proves he can rebound from foot surgery
I am not a fan of this deal. At all.
Snodgrass'Muff said:
Since you don't seem willing to try and back up your claims statistically, I'll take bets on both of these. $20 bucks to the Jimmy Fund for each? You win if Kelly is off the 25 man roster to start 2015 and Craig has a .700 or worse OPS for the rest of the season.
At the rate Papi is still hitting (even though his avg is down this year) that won't be for awhile. I would imagine that he will play here through 2016 at least, not sure about the '17 option.bosockboy said:Craig is definitely Papi's replacement when the time comes.
So the Cards' locker room is stunned and fans unhappybrandonchristensen said:I suck at english.
He's not happy about it.
Plympton91 said:I'm confused.
I sorta see the attraction of Kelly, even if he can't stick in the rotation, his stuff screams out that he'd be an excellent reliever. Four years of control of an excellent reliever is worth a lot.
I don't understand Craig when you've already got Cespedes; though of course you have Craig for 4 years and Cespedes for 1 year.
I'm now wondering if Cespedes gets flipped?
Which is about the only interesting thing about the Sox right now.rembrat said:When the dust settles we need to figure out who are the chips and who are the keepers. Message board fun.
So I suppose technically they're good, with Lester, Lackey and Gomes out, and Cespedes, Craig, and Kelly in. But man, they got a lot of OFers.Merkle's Boner said:There's going to need to be some moves on the 25 man roster.
mikeford said:Craig is a negative WAR player this year, dudes. I know you're all banking on a return to form and maybe that'll happen but till it does... he's not a 2-3 win player.
rembrat said:
Papi insurance or at 1B if Nap can't play the field anymore.
At this point, I think BC is just grabbing the best available players and over the off-season his team will lay out a plan and execute it. He'll have bevy of scenarios and that's what you generally want as a GM.
Merkle's Boner said:So I suppose technically they're good, with Lester, Lackey and Gomes out, and Cespedes, Craig, and Kelly in. But man, they got a lot of OFers.
Cespedes
Craig
Nava
Carp
JBJ
Victorino
Holt
Yes, he for sure would have been claimed. And you literally have no idea what the team is going to look like next season. Step back from the ledge.kazuneko said:One of the worst sports days in a long time. Just don't get what the Sox are doing here. Craig was beyond brutal this year and is signed for pretty substantial money going forward. Would anyone even of claimed the guy on waivers? Sure he could bounce back, but how is a player like that the main piece the Sox get in return for Lackey? Kelly isn't horrible, but doesn't seem to have the upside that you would hope for in a trade like this. This team is gong to be horrible next season - and somehow, despite that, the main return they got for Lester was a player that they only will control for another year.
kazuneko said:One of the worst sports days in a long time. Just don't get what the Sox are doing here. Craig was beyond brutal this year and is signed for pretty substantial money going forward. Would anyone even of claimed the guy on waivers? Sure he could bounce back, but how is a player like that the main piece the Sox get in return for Lackey? Kelly isn't horrible, but doesn't seem to have the upside that you would hope for in a trade like this. This team is gong to be horrible next season - and somehow, despite that, the main return they got for Lester was a player that they only will control for another year.
Carp isn't an outfielder (or long for the team)... but you know that. Victorino can't stay healthy... but you know that. Holt will continue to be an IF/OF super sub... but you know that.Merkle's Boner said:So I suppose technically they're good, with Lester, Lackey and Gomes out, and Cespedes, Craig, and Kelly in. But man, they got a lot of OFers.
Cespedes
Craig
Nava
Carp
JBJ
Victorino
Holt
of course he would have been claimed. hey, I would be furiously working to scrape up the money to claim him myself. his contract is goodkazuneko said:One of the worst sports days in a long time. Just don't get what the Sox are doing here. Craig was beyond brutal this year and is signed for pretty substantial money going forward. Would anyone even of claimed the guy on waivers? Sure he could bounce back, but how is a player like that the main piece the Sox get in return for Lackey? Kelly isn't horrible, but doesn't seem to have the upside that you would hope for in a trade like this. This team is gong to be horrible next season - and somehow, despite that, the main return they got for Lester was a player that they only will control for another year.
kazuneko said:One of the worst sports days in a long time. Just don't get what the Sox are doing here. Craig was beyond brutal this year and is signed for pretty substantial money going forward. Would anyone even of claimed the guy on waivers? Sure he could bounce back, but how is a player like that the main piece the Sox get in return for Lackey? Kelly isn't horrible, but doesn't seem to have the upside that you would hope for in a trade like this. This team is gong to be horrible next season - and somehow, despite that, the main return they got for Lester was a player that they only will control for another year.
kazuneko said:One of the worst sports days in a long time. Just don't get what the Sox are doing here. Craig was beyond brutal this year and is signed for pretty substantial money going forward. Would anyone even of claimed the guy on waivers? Sure he could bounce back, but how is a player like that the main piece the Sox get in return for Lackey? Kelly isn't horrible, but doesn't seem to have the upside that you would hope for in a trade like this. This team is gong to be horrible next season - and somehow, despite that, the main return they got for Lester was a player that they only will control for another year.
13:$1.75M, 14:$2.75M, 15:$5.5M, 16:$9M, 17:$11M, 18:$13M club option ($1M buyout)
Isn't Craig a pretty horrendous OFer too?In my lifetime said:
Except
Carp is a horrendous OFer and will in all likelihood be moved for a bag of balls
Holt can be a supersub playing anywhere
Victorino can't be counted on for more than 80 games
Big Papa Smurph said:About a month ago, Jeff Sullivan at fangraphs wrote about Allen Craig's struggles at the plate this year.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/allen-craig-who-once-knew-left-field/