Heyman: Ellsbury to sign seven-year deal with Yankees
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MentalDisabldLst
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This is true, but only because the Angels and Cubs are paying the Yankees $34 million next year. So if the Yankees' goal is solely to get under the cap next year, they could theoretically perhaps sign Cano and still make it depending on the A-Rod suspension. But they would have no hope of staying under in 2015 and 2016 and probably beyond. They are already comitted to almost $110 million for 5 players in 2015 and 2016. If they sign Cano, it's $132.5 to $135 for six players, and they will need a SS -- a very expensive position. Cano would put them well into the $200 million bracket in 2015 and 2016 easily, making staying under in 2014 a little more than a moral victory -- because it resets the escalation -- but not too much more.nattysez said:
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DieHardSoxFan1 said:
Who the hell is "glad to see him go"?
Let me ask you this: how many people here would support re-signing Ellsbury if it was for the league minimum? 100%, right? How many people here would support re-signing him for $50 M / year? Zero, right?
Price matters. Money isn't infinite. Our team's fortunes depend on how wisely they spend what they've got. If he'd signed somewhere for 5/$75, many of us would be bitching that we could/should have topped that offer. But that wasn't the market. At 7/$153, nobody's happy that he's leaving, as you strawmanned it, but people are level-headed about not wanting him at that price - at least, those who don't have childlike fantasies about money being irrelevant and the toys you have are always better than other toys someone else has (e.g. Choo, Beltran) or you might get in the future (e.g. JBJ).
EvilEmpire said:
And you're allowed to get out of those no problemo as long as you just turn the guy over to Bud and pretend you had no idea.
Ellsbury has more World Series rings than everybody on the Yankees, except Jeter & possibly Soriano(who didn't play in '99 or '00 WSs), and Girardi.
There's a hilarious trader/traitor thing going on Twitter. Personally, I'm not really in the camp of 'GFY, JE'(which I've seen a lot of on FB). 2 titles, man. Why am I going to boo him? I saw photos on Instagram of people putting their Ellsbury jerseys in the trash. Until he finds a way to win 2 titles in NY, I think it's perfectly fine to wear his jersey. Besides, we knew he was a goner.
There's a hilarious trader/traitor thing going on Twitter. Personally, I'm not really in the camp of 'GFY, JE'(which I've seen a lot of on FB). 2 titles, man. Why am I going to boo him? I saw photos on Instagram of people putting their Ellsbury jerseys in the trash. Until he finds a way to win 2 titles in NY, I think it's perfectly fine to wear his jersey. Besides, we knew he was a goner.
None of those bald assertions can even charitably be called an analysis.nattysez said:
The last couple times I read the CBA in July, I came away believing players serving a disciplinary suspension by the Commissioner's Office under the JDA still count against the Club's Active List and therefore their salary still counts for purposes of the Competitive Balance Tax. None of the assertions to the contrary ever seem to wrestle with the actual provisions of the CBA.
Yankees projected line-up IF they re-sign Cano. Arf.
Ellsbury cf lhh
Jeter ss rhh
Cano 2b lhh
Tex 1b swh
McCann C lhh
Soriano dh rhh
Gardner lf lhh
Nunez 3b rhh
Ichiro rf lhh
Ellsbury cf lhh
Jeter ss rhh
Cano 2b lhh
Tex 1b swh
McCann C lhh
Soriano dh rhh
Gardner lf lhh
Nunez 3b rhh
Ichiro rf lhh
BigSoxFan said:
Boras must take home a certain amount of satisfaction knowing this signing may have taken some money out of Canos pocket. Is it too late for Cano to change agents?
86spike said:
Dead on. He was going to sign somewhere else, for a dollar amount few if any here wanted Ben to pay especially with JBJ in the wings.
The Yankees are always going to sign big name free agents, overpay, etc. Anyone who thought the Yanks would stand pat after last season is crazy.
Who cares that he went to NY? The Yankees were going to spend this money on someone and personally I don't see this signing as the difference maker but it will make them better - ANY signing for this kind of money should make them better (but let's see if they retain Cano)
Congrats on the contract Ells and thank you for your part in the 2007 and 2013 World Series titles- may you never see another one while wearing the pinstripes.
Go Sox!
edit - link to a nice writeup - http://www.boston.com/blogs/sports/columnists/kaufman/2013/12/jacoby_ellsburys_departure_is_good_news_for_red_so.html
Jeter's number for the luxury tax is $12.81M:
https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/396393020028764160
https://twitter.com/Joelsherman1/status/396393020028764160
I'm so used to this now that it almost doesn't even sting anymore. I'll just fold up my Ells tee and add it to the stack.
Maybe it just gets easier with each subsequent WS victory.
Maybe it just gets easier with each subsequent WS victory.
BigSoxFan said:
Hey, if Boras' FA plan for everyone is to have them win 2 World Series Championships with the Red Sox first, I'm totally alright with that.
GordonEdes Gordon Edes
Source close to negotiations said Sox offered Ellsbury a six-year deal for less than $120 million. A 5 yr/100m offer also was on table
Source close to negotiations said Sox offered Ellsbury a six-year deal for less than $120 million. A 5 yr/100m offer also was on table
DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Just to be clear if it hasn't been said before here already, getting under for 2014 is indeed all they care about. They just want to reset the rate and then will happily go back to paying it in subsequent years if necessary (and it almost certainly will be).
Given the huge $ and the NTC from the Yanks, it seems likely the Sox did make the 5-year offer for $100m. Boras would have used it to the max with George's boys, "He wants to re-sign with Boston, so you're going to have to really make him a head-turning offer on this."
It is?budcrew08 said:
look, Ells was going to take the biggest deal possible. Plain and simple. Sox weren't going to give him 150M+ over 7 years.
No one, except the Yankees (and Dodgers) were going to do that. Seriously. It's not sickening. It's fucking business. That's what baseball is. Sometimes you get someone like Pedey who decides that a fan base and a city is worth more than top dollar, but I can't get upset at a guy taking the most money. ESPECIALLY since the Sox offer wasn't closed.
Interesting that the MFYs are willing to back up the truck for Ellsbury but happy to play hardball with Cano. If I were Cano, I'd be so pissed right now that I'd run out and sign whatever the best deal I've got right now from somebody else. Cano is a better player than Ellsbury - aren't the Yankees at best treading water if the sign Ellsbury but lose Cano?
Boy, this stings. I wanted him back, but had talked myself into being Ok with Chicago or Seattle picking him up. Heck even I would have a hard time feeling good about the Sox paying him that much for 7 plus an option. But NYY, Yeesh.
Good for Tacos, he's getting his payday. And he's going to a place where he'll still be playing for the postseason more often than not. But geez, business sucks sometimes. Thanks for the memories, Jacoby, enjoy your rings.
Fucking Capitalism.
Good for Tacos, he's getting his payday. And he's going to a place where he'll still be playing for the postseason more often than not. But geez, business sucks sometimes. Thanks for the memories, Jacoby, enjoy your rings.
Fucking Capitalism.
This one doesn't hurt as bad as I expected. We knew he was gone. He got overpaid. Congrats to him and Boras. Must have been one hell of a binder.
Now, I just have to convince my wife that we have to change our dog's name from Ellie to Dusty.
Now, I just have to convince my wife that we have to change our dog's name from Ellie to Dusty.
I can't blame Ells for taking that money, that's just crazy. Too bad Cano couldn't play first base though.Philip Jeff Frye said:
To me, Ellsbury should have been a franchise player for us, just like Cano should be for them. I hold players who stay with one team thru their career in the highest regard. Look at Brian Roberts & Joe Mauer. I doubt they win one with their teams...
Its certainly not like Roger's BS excuse "to win a championship" so its for the money. HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU REALLY NEED THOUGH?
I'd have offered him 5 years with a player & club option for the 6th year. 5 years at 100 million, with $22 mil (slight raise) for the 6th (option) year. Boston offered 5 years, 100 million (reportedly) That's $20 mil per year...
MFY's offered 7 years for $153 million. Their offer is for 21.5 or so Million a year.
So less than 2 million a year and 2 more years of "job security" does it for you, not the fans? If he's still good at the end of our proposed 5 years, I'm sure he'd get even more money due to inflation and his worth...
Whatever, I hope he hits around .150 and the fans turn on him for his struggles! Because you know they will. Hell they've booed Jeter!
And bravo to the MFY's for spending instead of developing, good to see their usual "buy a WS trophy" campaign continues.
But you do need pitching and with Andy retiring, Sabathia declining, Hughes gone (though not much hurting them) Kuroda having said at one point he wished to finish his career in Japan and Nova shaky at best. PLUS Rivera retiring... They don't have any pitching. They better hope to be at the top of a lot of slugfests! And in the postseason, pitching matters!
Its certainly not like Roger's BS excuse "to win a championship" so its for the money. HOW MUCH MONEY DO YOU REALLY NEED THOUGH?
I'd have offered him 5 years with a player & club option for the 6th year. 5 years at 100 million, with $22 mil (slight raise) for the 6th (option) year. Boston offered 5 years, 100 million (reportedly) That's $20 mil per year...
MFY's offered 7 years for $153 million. Their offer is for 21.5 or so Million a year.
So less than 2 million a year and 2 more years of "job security" does it for you, not the fans? If he's still good at the end of our proposed 5 years, I'm sure he'd get even more money due to inflation and his worth...
Whatever, I hope he hits around .150 and the fans turn on him for his struggles! Because you know they will. Hell they've booed Jeter!
And bravo to the MFY's for spending instead of developing, good to see their usual "buy a WS trophy" campaign continues.
But you do need pitching and with Andy retiring, Sabathia declining, Hughes gone (though not much hurting them) Kuroda having said at one point he wished to finish his career in Japan and Nova shaky at best. PLUS Rivera retiring... They don't have any pitching. They better hope to be at the top of a lot of slugfests! And in the postseason, pitching matters!
When Scott Boras dies, there will be five or six funeral homes bidding for the services, including rumors of several unnamed establishments willing to go multiple yearsCoffeeNerdness said:
Cowboys Idiots N Beards said:
But I doubt this is ever strictly about money as legal tender and purchaser of goodies. It's also about money as token of love, respect, stature and value. The team that offers the most money says "we want you more, and think more highly of you, than anyone else." How many of us are so inner-directed as to be entirely immune to that? I sure as hell am not.
Cowboys Idiots N Beards said:
Your math's a bit off, yearly avg is more like 23.5M plus there is the matter of the year eight option that reported to be in the 16-17M range. Lets assume your 6 year option at 22, this puts things at (according to YOUR suggested offer) at 6 years 122M. It pales in comparison when you're looking at 8/180M. Offensively do you pay THAT much at the back end of a contract for a guy who makes his living with his legs and will be 37-38 years old?
To me, in sports and in life, there are statue guys and there are dollar guys. Dollar guys will always chase the money, regardless of all other considerations. Statue guys will usually stay put, because they value considerations beyond getting every last dollar. I always use the last two Patriots coaches named Bill to illustrate the difference. Parcells was a dollar guy. He grew up a Giants fan, but that didn't stop him from chasing a bigger paycheck at every opportunity. After his first Super Bowl win, he was in negotiations to leave the team o join the Falcons. Then after his second Super Bowl win, and shortly after "retiring" for health reasons, he was off to Tampa Bay, but it turned out those health reasons got in the way. And if you could believe it, after his next Super Bowl appearance, he was even in negotiations to leave the team he had taken to the Super Bowl during the week he was supposed to be getting them ready for the big game, because Dollar Bill was never one to pass up an opportunity to cash in.
Belichick is a statue guy. I bet if he had the chance, he would have stayed at Cleveland until they put up a statue of him outside the stadium to honor him for the multiple Super Bowls he would have won for the Browns. You never hear talk of him leaving the Patriots unless it's speculation about when he might retire. There's no question that there's a hoodie wearing statue coming to Gillette not long after Belichick hangs up his for good.
Of course, Kraft has always paid him one of the highest salaries in the NFL, and he has the best QB in the league, so why would he leave?
Ellsbury leaving for the MFYs might mean he's not a statue guy, but I'm not going to judge him too harshly because he wasn't getting anything close to what they offered him from the Sox, and even for the most loyal, there are limits. That love has to go both ways, or it goes away. I just hope for us and for the MFYs, this turns out to be our version of Pujols leaving the Cardinals for the Angels. That deal worked out really well for one of those teams.
Belichick is a statue guy. I bet if he had the chance, he would have stayed at Cleveland until they put up a statue of him outside the stadium to honor him for the multiple Super Bowls he would have won for the Browns. You never hear talk of him leaving the Patriots unless it's speculation about when he might retire. There's no question that there's a hoodie wearing statue coming to Gillette not long after Belichick hangs up his for good.
Of course, Kraft has always paid him one of the highest salaries in the NFL, and he has the best QB in the league, so why would he leave?
Ellsbury leaving for the MFYs might mean he's not a statue guy, but I'm not going to judge him too harshly because he wasn't getting anything close to what they offered him from the Sox, and even for the most loyal, there are limits. That love has to go both ways, or it goes away. I just hope for us and for the MFYs, this turns out to be our version of Pujols leaving the Cardinals for the Angels. That deal worked out really well for one of those teams.
Cowboys Idiots N Beards said:
Why in the world would Ellsbury do a 5-year contract at $100M when he has a 7 year deal at $153? That's a guarantee of $53M more. You also say you'd offer a club/player option like that automatically guarantees him an extra year.
You're also going with the assumption that 7/$153M was the Yankees final offer and they had Choo on the other line dieing to accept a deal to play CF in the Bronx. If the Red Sox went to, say, 7/140, guess what the Yankees would do? Probably something like 8/190.
You don't win bidding wars with the Yankees, especially when they are trying to really make headlines.
Boras truly is the best. Obviously he wanted to get the best deal for his guy but this is also a shot across the bow at Cano/Jay-Z and their 10 year, 300 million dollar request. "While you're sitting on the sidelines making obscene contract demands. I'm locking up players with money you thought was set aside for you."
Another way of looking at it is that maybe the Yanks have already moved on from Cano. Perhaps he received an offer that they knew they weren't going to blow out of the water and decided to move on.
The dynamics of the Yanks front office/ownership, agents and $$$ will be fascinating as the facts shake out. Sherman will be a must read for the rest of the offseason.
Another way of looking at it is that maybe the Yanks have already moved on from Cano. Perhaps he received an offer that they knew they weren't going to blow out of the water and decided to move on.
The dynamics of the Yanks front office/ownership, agents and $$$ will be fascinating as the facts shake out. Sherman will be a must read for the rest of the offseason.
knucklecup said:
The Daily News was ready. That's tremendous.
mauidano said:
Mazz? Is that you? Cue the "Red Sox are cheap! First Texeira, now Ellsbury! All they had to do was add one more year at comparable $$ and he was back!"
(mauidano, I'm not really busting on you, just anticipating F&M frothing up the masses.)
This will be great when Dempster drills Ells with a 84mph fastball in the ribs. Will anything happen to either of them?
NDame616 said:
The bolded part is the key here. If the Yankees really want a player, and if the player's #1 concern is money, then the Yankees will get their man. Period. It's a fait accompli. Only if they value other things can other teams really have a chance.
We sit here and talk about all the holes the Yankees have, and yes, it's true. But they've just upgraded HUGE at catcher, and got the 2nd best FA on the market, coming off a 5.8 WAR season in CF - Ellsbury is a *perfect* fit for Yankee Stadium, and we all know it. Two major moves within a few days. Yes, they're spending like drunken sailors, but that's their issue. As fans, we just sit here and watch them snap up big-time players left and right - it's the Yankee way all over again. We're fooling ourselves if we think they won't fill the other holes with very capable parts. There are reasons why their worst year in the past 15 still netted them 85 wins.
Just keep in mind that the Sox have won 3 of the last 10 World Series titles, that they have a pretty deep pool of resources too, and will undoubtedly (barring major catastrophe) be right in the mix again in 2014, with a very, very bright future.
Game on.
After a night's sleep, I have the following:
- Blaming Ells for taking substantially more money than the Sox offered is silly. If the offers were in the same area code, things would be different.
- Had the Sox signed Jacoby for 6/$120, I would have been really ticked at Ben. Ells is an important piece, and he will be missed, and he will help those insufferable bastards in the Bronx, but Ells is a piece type player, not someone you absolutely must have in my view.
- Something tells me that part of the Yankees' motivation was their typical "F the Red Sox" attitude. They have to understand that they just substantially overpaid Ellsbury and it's hard to believe that part of it wasn't an attempt to buzzkill the Sox and their tans after a WS win. With Cano still undone and pitching a serious need for NY, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay a guy with Ells' skill set that much coin in the absence of intangible/rivalry factors. "Take that, Boston!"
- Does this move, coupled with Salty leaving for a pretty reasonable contract (and make no mistake, I'm happy they opted for AJ for one year) put any additional pressure on Ben to wrap up Napoli? Losing Ells, Salty and Napoli would be tough on many Sox fans, particularly with Ells going to the MFYs. Will Ben be at all affected by such concerns or is it strictly down to player evaluations, pre-set spending limits, etc.? I have to believe that the PR stuff will play a role but not be a driver.
- Signing Granderson intrigues me. He had an off 2013 but he's also been a producer in NY. If the Sox could get him for two years, I think I'd be OK with seeing how it plays out. And if they give JBJ a shot in CF, I'm also OK with that.
- My assumption is that the MFYs will sign Cano and assume that A-Rod will be suspended for much if not all of 2014, thereby giving them the head room to stay under $189 mm. But what in the world do they do about pitching?
- As much as I am not mad at Jacoby, I will admit to being a little disappointed. He's just another guy who didn't let the fans enter the equation, and took the most dollars available regardless of the impact it would have on those who cheered for him wildly for years. Most people would do that, I know. I guess it just makes me appreciate the Pedroia types who actually put a premium on staying in one place and, perhaps, not kicking the fans in the teeth. Bernie Williams and Derek Jeter seemed to be of that ilk too.
- Which contract will be more of an albatross in 3-4 years -- Ellsbury or McCann? Here's to it being a close call.
- Blaming Ells for taking substantially more money than the Sox offered is silly. If the offers were in the same area code, things would be different.
- Had the Sox signed Jacoby for 6/$120, I would have been really ticked at Ben. Ells is an important piece, and he will be missed, and he will help those insufferable bastards in the Bronx, but Ells is a piece type player, not someone you absolutely must have in my view.
- Something tells me that part of the Yankees' motivation was their typical "F the Red Sox" attitude. They have to understand that they just substantially overpaid Ellsbury and it's hard to believe that part of it wasn't an attempt to buzzkill the Sox and their tans after a WS win. With Cano still undone and pitching a serious need for NY, it doesn't make a lot of sense to pay a guy with Ells' skill set that much coin in the absence of intangible/rivalry factors. "Take that, Boston!"
- Does this move, coupled with Salty leaving for a pretty reasonable contract (and make no mistake, I'm happy they opted for AJ for one year) put any additional pressure on Ben to wrap up Napoli? Losing Ells, Salty and Napoli would be tough on many Sox fans, particularly with Ells going to the MFYs. Will Ben be at all affected by such concerns or is it strictly down to player evaluations, pre-set spending limits, etc.? I have to believe that the PR stuff will play a role but not be a driver.
- Signing Granderson intrigues me. He had an off 2013 but he's also been a producer in NY. If the Sox could get him for two years, I think I'd be OK with seeing how it plays out. And if they give JBJ a shot in CF, I'm also OK with that.
- My assumption is that the MFYs will sign Cano and assume that A-Rod will be suspended for much if not all of 2014, thereby giving them the head room to stay under $189 mm. But what in the world do they do about pitching?
- As much as I am not mad at Jacoby, I will admit to being a little disappointed. He's just another guy who didn't let the fans enter the equation, and took the most dollars available regardless of the impact it would have on those who cheered for him wildly for years. Most people would do that, I know. I guess it just makes me appreciate the Pedroia types who actually put a premium on staying in one place and, perhaps, not kicking the fans in the teeth. Bernie Williams and Derek Jeter seemed to be of that ilk too.
- Which contract will be more of an albatross in 3-4 years -- Ellsbury or McCann? Here's to it being a close call.
Ah yea, the "how much money do you need" argument...
Option A: stay at your current job for $50 k per year
Option B: go to your company's biggest competitor to who offers you $70 k per year
I'll give you a hint. You're an idiot for choosing the that begins with a vowel. It is not a character flaw to want a higher standard of living. Can we put this argument to rest please...along with the anger that's player doesn't hate the Yankees like a fan does?
Option A: stay at your current job for $50 k per year
Option B: go to your company's biggest competitor to who offers you $70 k per year
I'll give you a hint. You're an idiot for choosing the that begins with a vowel. It is not a character flaw to want a higher standard of living. Can we put this argument to rest please...along with the anger that's player doesn't hate the Yankees like a fan does?
I can't believe anyone is upset about this. Ellsbury was gone. Someone was going to pay a ridiculous amount of money they were going to regret eventually. We have JBJ and Victorino and a ring in hand. You give the rookie some space.
I have no idea what the Yankees were thinking. The team is a mess and that was money better spent on filling out their rotation and bullpen.
I have no idea what the Yankees were thinking. The team is a mess and that was money better spent on filling out their rotation and bullpen.
dcmissle said:
So is 80 mil. And who wants the burden of knowing that their great gandkids are doomed to be trust fund babies (or trustifarians or whatever)?
**
While it's Ell's choice where to sign, he's in a sport/entertainment business. Given his "won't go to the Yanks" statements," he's going to be flayed as a traitor (which he'll mostly ignore) or downplayed as an asset (which he'll again mostly ignore.) However he reacts to 'em, these criticisms are his to own as they're part and parcel of the culture that actually is paying him (has paid him) millions.
**
What's odd to me is that people around here seem to discount the injuries as having no future affect on performance. It's as if players are on some kind of magic abstract "healthy" trajectory defined by age and past performance. However, serious injuries can have lasting implications. See Gonzalez, Adrian.
I'm sure the Sox had an upper "lets not get burned" number and stayed below it. The Yanks went above.
Best case scenario for the Sox is that Ells never really recovers his HR power and his speed diminishes, putting him in the decent-but-overpayed camp in the coming years. I don't begrudge him the money though.
Rovin Romine said:
Citation for the bolded, please? I don't recall Ellsbury making any such statements. In fact, I don't believe I have seen or heard anything out of Ellsbury's camp that would lead anyone to believe he was going to do anything other than take top dollar no matter the buyer. He's not a traitor, he's a mercenary. No different, no better, no worse than 99% of professional athletes in all team sports.
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