If it's on the Internet, it must be true.I mean, there are two twitter docs quoted above and they can't even agree on whether this thing is in his ankle or his knee.
Doesn’t sound like that’s a huge risk for people who get surgery, and there is a very high rate of full recovery. Did you get surgery?I had a similar injury. He may be able to play, but I had long term issues related to it.
C'mon. He's going to post that without a layperson explanation?I really miss DRS. A what?
View: https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status/1800595116639588557?t=nbP5iPSS8jTHY5dHoDX8vQ&s=19
Shams Charania
@ShamsCharania
Celtics' Kristaps Porzingis suffered a torn medial retinaculum allowing dislocation of the posterior tibialis tendon.
As long as there is no ligamentous tear, I doubt surgery would be needed. MPFL injuries are often managed non-operatively. This would not usually be considered be a career threatening injury. Each case is different, of course. My sense is that he's hobbled (think mod knee sprain) but plays this series in a somewhat limited role w/ a brace. After the season (the Championship, I hope!), he can take some time to rehab and see how the knee responds. Likely non surgical for this isolated injury but who knows what else his L knee may need?
This was what he went to the locker room for prior to the 4Q. Then he returned to the game and I suppose that awkward landing aggravated it.At 3:27 of the 3rd quarter?? I thought we were all concerned about the 4th!
Thank you!As long as there is no ligamentous tear, I doubt surgery would be needed. MPFL injuries are often managed non-operatively. This would not usually be considered be a career threatening injury. Each case is different, of course. My sense is that he's hobbled (think mod knee sprain) but plays this series in a somewhat limited role w/ a brace. After the season (the Championship, I hope!), he can take some time to rehab and see how the knee responds. Likely non surgical for this isolated injury but who knows what else his L knee may need?
No, it was the opposite leg/ankle in the 4th. And I don't think he went to the locker room in the 3rd, did he? I thought he left after the 4Q briefly and then returned. He played pretty well in the 3rd/early 4th until the right ankle turn.This was what he went to the locker room for prior to the 4Q. Then he returned to the game and I suppose that awkward landing aggravated it.
I think the injury that he sustained is in his foot/ankoe and not his knee?As long as there is no ligamentous tear, I doubt surgery would be needed. MPFL injuries are often managed non-operatively. This would not usually be considered be a career threatening injury. Each case is different, of course. My sense is that he's hobbled (think mod knee sprain) but plays this series in a somewhat limited role w/ a brace. After the season (the Championship, I hope!), he can take some time to rehab and see how the knee responds. Likely non surgical for this isolated injury but who knows what else his L knee may need?
So KP said the injury happened when he bumped left knees with Lively in the early 3rd, but then he appeared to roll his right ankle in the early 4th, which was when he clearly needed to come out. I think his entire play up until that right ankle roll was post-injury (for what we are speaking about now), and I think they are separate, unless the weakness in the left caused the roll of the right. This dude is like an advent calendar of leg injuries.Also, a lot of the disconnect on social media and here is the confusion between the medial patellofemoral retinaculum (MPFL) at the knee and what Porzingis injured at the ankle.
MPFL injuries are very common and entirely unrelated to what happened to KP.
The medial flexor retinaculum at the ankle keeps your medial ankle ligaments in place. He didn’t have a knee injury, patellar dislocation, or anything like that. He hurt his ankle.
Most likely he’s going to need offseason surgery. He can still try to give it a go for a week or two and see how effective he is.
Ah gotcha. I was confused. I saw an MPFL injury (here) and a video showing a Valgus type mechanism which would be consistent with a medial knee injury. Now it makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.Also, a lot of the disconnect on social media and here is the confusion between the medial patellofemoral retinaculum (MPFL) at the knee and what Porzingis injured at the ankle.
MPFL injuries are very common and entirely unrelated to what happened to KP.
The medial flexor retinaculum at the ankle keeps your medial ankle ligaments in place. He didn’t have a knee injury, patellar dislocation, or anything like that. He hurt his ankle.
Most likely he’s going to need offseason surgery. He can still try to give it a go for a week or two and see how effective he is.
Thank you. I presume there are no, umm, shots that could KP manage the pain?Also, a lot of the disconnect on social media and here is the confusion between the medial patellofemoral retinaculum (MPFL) at the knee and what Porzingis injured at the ankle.
MPFL injuries are very common and entirely unrelated to what happened to KP.
The medial flexor retinaculum at the ankle keeps your medial ankle ligaments in place. He didn’t have a knee injury, patellar dislocation, or anything like that. He hurt his ankle.
Most likely he’s going to need offseason surgery. He can still try to give it a go for a week or two and see how effective he is.
Reporter on Twitter confirmed he went to locker room prior to him returning to game in the 4Q. I forget who it was.No, it was the opposite leg/ankle in the 4th. And I don't think he went to the locker room in the 3rd, did he? I thought he left after the 4Q briefly and then returned. He played pretty well in the 3rd/early 4th until the right ankle turn.
I believe it was after the 3rd quarter and before he came back in? Either way, he did look effective for all of the 3rd/early 4th until he rolled over his right ankle.Reporter on Twitter confirmed he went to locker room prior to him returning to game in the 4Q. I forget who it was.
I believe it's that knee on knee above. KP said he did it boxing out and banging knees with Lively going up for a rebound.Does anyone have the play at 3:27 left in the 3rd? Is it that knee on knee or something else?
They can try, it might help a bit.Thank you. I presume there are no, umm, shots that could KP manage the pain?
With that in mind, I'm assuming we can't go Bloody Sock 2.0 because it's the tendon on the inside?- this is essentially a “reverse Schilling”. Schilling tore the peroneal retinaculum on the outside of the ankle allowing the peroneal tendons to slip out of place. Same idea here, but different tendon on the inside of the ankle.
Yeah. He literally copied the team announcement.C'mon. He's going to post that without a layperson explanation?
We are becoming self-aware...We are insane for caring about pro sports.
What odds would you put on him trying to play game 3?They can try, it might help a bit.
It’s not just a pain issue though, the tibialis posterior tendon is the largest tendon on the inside of your ankle. If it’s sliding outside its normal groove, it’s going to be a bit awkward to move around and feel strange for him.
I doubt they know how he’s going to respond honestly, just hoping for the best. I would doubt a Schilling bloody sock surgery repeat...but that’s the kind of short term procedure he would need if this bothers him so much he can’t play. Probably way harder to do such a thing and have it stay in place for a basketball player.
Not until years later, since it was not diagnosed at the time of the injury, and I continued to play on it.Doesn’t sound like that’s a huge risk for people who get surgery, and there is a very high rate of full recovery. Did you get surgery?
You guys all know this: I am NO DRS...
The wording of this is unclear so I'm still a bit unsure what the actual injury is. With the caveat that the diagnosis is a bit muddled, here's my take: A torn medial retinaculum increases the risk of patellar dislocation. It helps the medial patellofemoral ligament (MPFL) keep the patella well seated within the femoral groove. It is often torn when the patella is dislocated laterally (most common) due to trauma. The retinaculum is a tough band of connective tissue that holds tendons in proper anatomical position. These structures are often injured with trauma. It is a BIT unusual to see/hear of an isolated retinaculum injury because usually other, more recognizable structures are injured as well...i.e. patellofemoral ligament, patella, meniscus, etc. It is unclear if KP dislocated his patella but I don't think that is terribly likely given the nature of his injury and what I was able to observe. A patellar dislocation can be treated easily on the court - you simply straighten the leg out and the patella snaps back into place. I do this all the time in the ED without sedation - it's that quick/easy...usually, there are exceptions.. He MAY have subluxed his patella - (slid out, and right back in). Some of you may remember when Patrick Mahomes dislocated HIS patella a few years ago. He was playing 2-3 weeks later. So, this injury could require surgery (worst case - and probably eventually for a pro athlete) OR simply a brace to stabilize the joint. Those are the two treatment endpoints acutely - in my admittedly uninformed opinion. If his MPFL is also torn, he is 100% done for the playoffs. Tendons don't really dislocate so that verbiage is a bit unclear to me. I suspect there was an error in transcribing the diagnosis but I'm not sure. I THINK (but do not know) that him walking limp free w/o a brace indicates that he has not torn the larger more "important" knee stabilizing tissue nor has he dislocated his patella. A bit speculative, I know. I wish I had more to go on. Actually, I think "day to day" is pretty accurate. If pain and swelling are well controlled and he can wear a brace to stabilize the joint, he might be able to play again this series.
Txs both of you for posting and clarifying things.Probably should have posted this in here too….
The number of comically wrong social media posts on this injury already is funny. Holy smokes.
A few quick thoughts:
- rare injury, though I have seen it a handful of times
- this is an injury to the thin “ligament-like” band that holds on the the medial ankle tendons behind the inner side of the tibia, the medial malleolus (That bump you feel on the inside of the ankle).
- if torn, the tibialis poster tendon can side in front of that bump instead of staying behind. That’s the “dislocation”.
- I’m the short term, he can probably try to play, though might be painful and feel awkward. Likely decreased mobility
- most likely will require surgery in the offseason though no big rush
- this is essentially a “reverse Schilling”. Schilling tore the peroneal retinaculum on the outside of the ankle allowing the peroneal tendons to slip out of place. Same idea here, but different tendon on the inside of the ankle.
- crazy bad luck for KP. I hope he can play a bit and be an upgrade of kornet/Tillman. But we’ll see.
He can try a tight brace or wrap, might help a bit, I doubt it will be super succesful though. You really need that reticulum tightly in place. If the tibialis posterior tendon was dislocated on the MRI, that means it's really unstable since he was obviously not even moving it at that time. Generally you don't want your tendons popping in and out of place. Painful, feels weird, and generally not good for mobility.Txs both of you for posting and clarifying things.
Can KP use some sort of sleeve or brace to keep the tendon from popping?
I think it's a lot less likely to be successful in a basketball player running around, jumping, and cutting. Seems like way too much torque to be able to suture it in place and have everything be stable right away without any actual time for the soft tissues to heal, it's a lot different than pitching. Would be interesting if they tried something along those lines, but I doubt it.With that in mind, I'm assuming we can't go Bloody Sock 2.0 because it's the tendon on the inside?
I just hope that if he plays, the Mavericks are too classy to bunt on him.Doctor has seen the Porzingis injury once in 25 years and then claims "A lot of times the ankle and the tendon can be taped to allow play."?
I think people should be assuming he's done for the season. If he plays and is effective I'll be shocked and incredibly happy.