Game 1 Philly, goats
- Thread starter Eddie Jurak
- Start date
I'm encouraged because the Pats were playing without their two best OL, their WR1, their RB1 was playing sick, they were playing one of the best teams in the NFL, got off to a 0-16 deficit, and nearly came back to win the game. I thought they were going to get absolutely blown out today and they showed me a LOT of good things.
But you're right - at some point they have to actually win these games and not just be close. But honestly, I thought they were going to lose this game by four touchdowns today.
Felt like most of the stops happened with just the defensive line. No one getting pushed off spots. It’s a good opponent playing against their strength but not being able to even scratch out short yards was part of what killed their offense.
This is how I feel too. I was positive, based on pre-season practice reports and game footage, that this was going to be a BLOW-OUT. That the Patriots hung with a much more talented Eagles team is encouraging. I feel bad for (and pissed about) Boutte, but I trust he'll get better at that, he'll certainly be motivated. VERY encouraging performance against one of the best teams they'll play all year. Yes, Mac had a rough first quarter - a couple bad throws in the rain - but I love that he played so well the rest of the way. Didn't let it get him down, kept making plays. Bourne was mostly really great, the offense moved the ball decently, especially given the crap OL and the fierce Iggles front.
There are plays here and there I wish had gone better, and I wish (in hindsight and at the time) BB had gone for the chip-shot FG, but overall...I'm so surprised at how much more cohesive they were, I'm gonna say...there was only one GOAT on the field today and he'sa. fucking Patriot FOR LIFE.
My two goals for this season:
1) Is Mac the guy going forward?
2) Is BB building a team for the future, and if not, should he continue to be in charge?
My feeling from the opener:
Maybe, but not maybe, but maybe, but not maybe.
The 1st qtr turnovers were ridiculous but when this team settled down they outplayed the Eagles. But then they had chances to take control and just floundered.
The Brady teams would have this kind of opening and get that key turnover to change the script, and pounce on the previously dominating team like an angry Gorrilla.
Mac is not the guy to flip the script. He can make plays but he's just a guy.
If we come away from this season knowing the defense is young and has potential and Mac is done, I'll consider this season a success.
1) Is Mac the guy going forward?
2) Is BB building a team for the future, and if not, should he continue to be in charge?
My feeling from the opener:
Maybe, but not maybe, but maybe, but not maybe.
The 1st qtr turnovers were ridiculous but when this team settled down they outplayed the Eagles. But then they had chances to take control and just floundered.
The Brady teams would have this kind of opening and get that key turnover to change the script, and pounce on the previously dominating team like an angry Gorrilla.
Mac is not the guy to flip the script. He can make plays but he's just a guy.
If we come away from this season knowing the defense is young and has potential and Mac is done, I'll consider this season a success.
Why is it terrible?
Because y/pa lacks all context as a stat?
Mac had 13 completions to his running backs, most of which were of the screen variety, and a number of quick passes to the outside. It was pretty clear from the jump the game plan involved short passing in lieu of running the ball.
I would imagine when F-ref updates the stats, we'll find that there was a shit ton of passes, by design, that didn't travel to or more than 1-2 yards passed the LOS. Those aren't chunk play types (especially when you're throwing them to guys like Ty Montgomery and Zeke Elliott who are running 4.8 40's at this point.
There were plenty of “encouraging” games last year i.e. Bengals. It’s time to win. They’re a mediocre team. All of the mediocre teams have plenty of encouraging loses.
He’s thrown some very good passes. And he’s thrown some total ducks. He’s inconsistent. Which are the kind of QBs who often struggle to win close and late games. Because you gotta string together 8, 10, 12 good plays in a row to seal a win.
I’m not saying he’ll never do it. I’m saying I don’t think his issue is some kind of mental block because never has. I’m not sure he’s good enough to be a guy who can do I frequently.
And as we all know, to be a plus NFL QB you gotta do it frequently. Because the league is always tight and very little separates the winners and losers.
Today’s game is exactly why I desperately wanted DeAndre Hopkins on this team. The offense just feels 1-2 pieces short. When push comes to shove, you can simply count on this offense to not make the winning play. JuJu looked slow as shit out there.
I’m not encouraged or discouraged. I see a mediocre team losing games that mediocre teams lose. The defense has enough to keep them in games and the offense screws it up. I expect this will be one of many of these types of games.
I’m not encouraged or discouraged. I see a mediocre team losing games that mediocre teams lose. The defense has enough to keep them in games and the offense screws it up. I expect this will be one of many of these types of games.
Yeah, I know, but given how they performed in pre-season and practice, I was not expecting it to be as close as the bettors seemed to. Nobody in the NFL actually thinks the Patriots as currently constructed (EDIT: ARE) only 4-5 points worse than the Eagles. Except now...maybe we do?
No goats for me this game because it’s Week 1 and they battled and the offense showed something after a horrid start.
Once we get to next week, no more moral victories. Time to turn winnable games into wins.
Once we get to next week, no more moral victories. Time to turn winnable games into wins.
The fact they were calling that many short passes may be a sign they aren’t particularly confident in Mac’s ability to throw mid- and long-range passes.
Call me old fashioned, but I think Mac only doing a few drives in one preseason game was a mistake. Maybe he wouldn't have started so slowly if he had a little more real game time in this offense.
Playing without three starting offensive lineman is tough. They backups held up surprisingly well in pass protection, but this is a running team and they couldn't do anything up the middle.
Playing without three starting offensive lineman is tough. They backups held up surprisingly well in pass protection, but this is a running team and they couldn't do anything up the middle.
The 1st quarter pick was bad but some serious overreaction to one bad throw. It was unfortunately tipped and picked off - this wasn’t a dumb decision or WTF throw.
It’s going to happen - especially in the 1st quarter of the first game in the pouring rain.
Mac made some outstanding throws in the game. Should have won the game.
Pats are going to be a really good team this year based on the first game.
It’s going to happen - especially in the 1st quarter of the first game in the pouring rain.
Mac made some outstanding throws in the game. Should have won the game.
Pats are going to be a really good team this year based on the first game.
It's week one, Pats at home, Eagles coming off a Super Bowl loss, they lost both coordinators, lots of weird stuff happens this early... the talent discrepancy is likely bigger than the Vegas number, but there were plenty of reasons to project a close game. I just think a lot of people are approaching this result as if they were supposed to get killed and that's not really true.
But in what world are people in N.E. and on message boards like this one under the impression that they AREN'T mediocre? They are. I assumed this team will win 7 or so games. This was a better performance - against a tough, elite team - than I expected. But they're still rebuilding, and I took today as a sign of positive movement, thanks to having an actual OC and making some decent picks in the draft.
I know your whole thing here is to yell down Mac haters. And I appreciate it because people can get weird about him. We also have agreed for 2 seasons running that we need a top end WR.
But yeah, he obviously was asked to throw mostly short stuff. I didn’t say he sucks because he had a 5.9 YPA. I said that YPA sucks. And it does. You don’t win games with that, coupled with an ineffective running game. Because you don’t score. Which we didn’t.
More likely, in my book, that it has to do with their shit-tastic and injured OL against the best pass rush in the NFL.
If we’re doing the whole comparison thing, let’s not forget that 3 nights ago a mediocre team from last year went into the defending champ’s house, made its fair share of mistakes, and still made enough plays to win the game.
I’m not pro or anti Mac. But it’s Groundhog Day at this point.
I’m not pro or anti Mac. But it’s Groundhog Day at this point.
I was very down on this team coming into the year, so overall they did much better than I expected.
I expected it to be a blowout and it wasn't.
I expected the OL to be a disaster, and it wasn't
I expected the DB unit to be too young and inexperienced to hold their own, and they weren't
I expected that no one on D would be able to contain Jalen Hurts, but they were.
Mac Jones was...better than last year, I guess? Which isn't saying much, but better than the alternative.
Still loads of Qs on offense, but defense looks legit. Meaning that the offense only needs to be average to be a contender. Not there yet but something to build on. And some very entertaining football in the meantime, which is more than we got last year.
I expected it to be a blowout and it wasn't.
I expected the OL to be a disaster, and it wasn't
I expected the DB unit to be too young and inexperienced to hold their own, and they weren't
I expected that no one on D would be able to contain Jalen Hurts, but they were.
Mac Jones was...better than last year, I guess? Which isn't saying much, but better than the alternative.
Still loads of Qs on offense, but defense looks legit. Meaning that the offense only needs to be average to be a contender. Not there yet but something to build on. And some very entertaining football in the meantime, which is more than we got last year.
The line was set before the Pats declared three of their best offensive players to be out, but given that Philly's D-line is elite, and the Pats' O-line was suspect, AND missing two of their best OL players, AND given that their best RB was sick (though he played), I figured the Pats would have all kinds of trouble moving the ball and scoring. Didn't you?
Or maybe it's about taking what the defense is giving, and also a bit of recognition that it's not Mac, we have no outside threats at receiver, especially without Parker.
And it's kind of Bill O'Brien's thing. Here's a piece on his philosophy from prior to the season:
https://www.patriots.com/news/analysis-what-will-the-patriots-offense-look-like-with-bill-o-brien-returning
Nope, I actually thought they could move the ball through the air on them and said so here before the game.
That's fine; play to his strengths. When it was McDaniels at the helm he insisted on running the Brady offense with all the deeper, longer developing routes and it was a square peg in a round hole. Mac is physically limited and they should mostly play a ball-control, quick passing offense. He takes his shots, but his deep ball accuracy is abysmal. I feel like the ducks and floaters he throws are mainly poor mechanics because all of his TD passes from today were nicely zipped in there and the iffy balls looked like they were the off the back foot variety. Maybe he solves his mechanical issues, but at this point the cake feels baked.
Nothing about the team screamed mediocre to me - they competed at a high level and frankly were a better team for that game - other than the 2 turnovers.
the defense finally finally stopped a running QB.
we dressed 11 rookies today and other than Boutte looked every bit the part with the Eagles
I acknowledge that the number wasn't as big. I disagreed with the number. (Also, spreads aren't some PURE stat based solely on what will happen, it has to do with how people bet, too. You could say the line was lower than expected b/c of the correct assumption that, early in the year, teams aren't quite as sharp, plus the weather and other factors. For me, the fact is that the team has been terribly disappointing against GOOD TEAMS, especially on offense, for a few years now. Today didn't seem like the Pats kept it close b/c Philly played down to them or due to early season sloppiness. It seemed like they kept it close bc the Patriots are better and their system is closer to sophisticated and dynamic than it's been since Mac walked with a brisk pace toward the guy who steals draft picks and lies about why.
I wasn't clear. I meant as we headed into this season, based on LAST year (and the year before) and on pre-season.
The problem is, Mac was in a funk and was missing high on throw after throw. A pass to Douglas that should have been a first but was too high. Then the Bourne pick which was thrown too high. Then the Zeke fubmle after a catch of a poorly thrown (too high) ball. Mac cannot afford to miss on his throws.
I've said it repeatedly, I don't think Mac is a top 10 QB, and probably not even top 15. I also don't think Jalen Hurts is a top 10-15 QB either. I also don't think Brock Purdy is.
But a team with a great defense, great skill position players and a middle of the road QB can have a lot of success in the NFL. Mac put them in position to score all day long, and on at least 5 drives, they fizzled out for reasons completely unrelated to Mac.
I don't have a problem with people shitting on Mac when Mac deserves to be shit on. That pick 6 was an abomination. I do have a problem with shallow, narrative based analysis that has no reflection of what actually happened on the field. You want to shit on Mac for taking a sack on the second to last drive, well then you better acknowledge that he hit Bourne right in his hands on the next play for a first down and it was dropped. We want to shit on Mac for his y/pa numbers, then let's make sure to acknowledge that a significant part of the game plan was screens, short passes and quick passes to the outside, which destroy that statistic. We want to shit on Mac for "not getting the win" but we damned sure better acknowledge that if BB kicks a field goal, and Trent Brown doesn't tackle a guy and take 2 points off the board, and Boutte gets his feet down twice, and Henry doesn't get called for phantom bullshit, the Pats likely put 30+ on the board, and none of those have anything to do with Mac.
Jones isn't Allen or Herbert but he is so much more physically gifted than this board gives him credit. No they aren't throwing a lot of short throws because he has a tiny arm.
What was the over under on this team? 7.5? They just played a theoretically excellent team very tight. I am quite optimistic
What was the over under on this team? 7.5? They just played a theoretically excellent team very tight. I am quite optimistic
Some of his better throws today were the downfield ones. The touchdowns (13, 19, and 11 yards) were all thrown into the endzone. The 23 yarder to Douglas. Both of the throws where Boutte could not get both feet in.
I think they were thorwing so many short passes because they did not trust the line.
The Zeke play is the shit I'm talking about.
Here's the play again. Feel free to pause at will. Mac missed that throw by maybe a foot. He had to go to Zeke's left because the defender was coming free right in between Zeke and Mac. Zeke made a great catch, then turns, takes multiple steps and fumbles.
But yeah, let's blame Mac for Zeke forgetting how hold a ball:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr4oSUs8Ac4
I think his legs are much better than people think, he's not a statue back there and has some mobility. The arm is fringe at best, I don't think any other starter other than Purdy is in the conversation for having a worse one. It's not an impediment, but it's something they have to take into account when scheming.
Football is the ultimate team sport. You need a lot of players to play well, and a lot of things to go right, in order to win in the NFL.
All those things happened (the OL holding in pass protection until the very end of the game was a very pleasant surprise), and I too thought they were going to get hammered today. That's our emotions as pats fans coming out - there's a reason why Philly was favored by just 3.5, and it's not because Vegas is stupid. It's because average teams generally play reasonably well at home. And Philly ended up covering anyway.
As an aside, I've seen Parker mentioned as our WR1 several times. Is this actually the case? I've felt like we've got 3 WRs that are all fairly similar in ability, none of whom really stand out. Parker is 30 and his line last year was just 31/539/3. He's our most consistent deep threat, but I think his statistical ceiling on this team is lower than both Bourne's and Juju's. Losing him isn't great, but saying we played without our WR1 today misrepresents the task we were faced with, I think.
what does this mean? every QB “misses” throws - some are going to be picked, some are going to hit the dirt. If the standard is “can’t ever miss” then it’s an impossible standard
Looked rusty to me and got in the groove.
Yeah that’s example - barely any mention of that fumble by Zeke in this thread. It was a terrible play by Zeke - certainly not the result of a bad throw by Mac.
I thought Zeke looked good and useful this game - the fumble sucks but it happens to every RB.
I think this team will be exactly where it was the last 3 years: 7-10 wins. In that sense, I'm optimistic that we'll hit the over on 7.5 wins. I'm not optimistic that we'll be a playoff team, and I'm very not optimistic that we'll look like a title contender at any point this year.
Ok, so then pointing out that Mac's statistics were "terrible," you were shitting on Bill O'Brien, I guess.
And not enough of a bad record to get one of the top QBs in the draft. I worry that we miss a window with a great defense.
I was shitting on the entire offense, who I gave a collective goat to in this thread.
The offense had 10 empty drives out of 13 total. That stinks.
Agree there for sure.
It's also depressing that if Jimmy G and Jakobi Meyers were dropped onto this roster they would be QB1 and WR1.