Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time

[wutang112878]

Oh, I agree completely with your points. And its debatable a few different ways but Mazz's constant (as you put) "for only 10M more" argument makes it seem like they are just cheap when 1) they spent the most they ever have and are not cheap and 2) the Yankees may have outbid them anyway.

My basic points are
1) Its at best disingenuous to say that the Sox could have had Tex for only 10M dollars more.
2) He repeats this point like a parrot, over and over. (see posts in this thread)

Agree with you 99%. The only thing I really agree with Mazz on is that getting Tex would have been a very good thing, and as a sidebar it probably keeps us from signing Lackey too :buddy: Its disingenuous because he states the 'only 10M more' as fact, if he stated as the rumor it is because it was floated by the agent then its a fair statement.

The problem with big market baseball reporters pushing for the team to spend money is they are only thinking short-term, especially with the Sox having a bad season. They pretend to have all the answers now, you should have signed Tex, and need to resgin Vmart, but they dont care about what the team might look like in 2 or 3 years. Thats just the nature of their business and needing to sell papers and get ratings now and not thinking of the future. That I can tolerate. But his laziness in positioning his argument is just poor journalism, and I think should be critiqued.

 

[judyb]

Be forewarned. Mazz has promised to devote an entire "Baseball Reporters" show to discuss Mark Texeira once the Red Sox season has "officially" ended. :gonk:

At first, I thought this must be the day that he's devoting the entire show to Teixeira talk, but then I realized you said it would be after the Red Sox season had officially ended, so this just must be his regularly scheduled daily Teixeira talk, not his special whole show one.

 

[shawnrbu]

Tony is rooting for the Sox to lose every game down the stretch and for the Yankees and Rays to make it to the ALCS with the winner being the eventual World Series Champion because Tony firmly believes that Red Sox ownership needs to be sent a message.

 

[mikeford]

And that message is what? Don't let your 2 best players get injured and miss the entire season? Gee, I think they got that one already.

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

Tony is rooting for the Sox to lose every game down the stretch and for the Yankees and Rays to make it to the ALCS with the winner being the eventual World Series Champion because Tony firmly believes that Red Sox ownership needs to be sent a message.

I'm pretty sure the 30% drop in tv ratings got their attention. I don't expect to hear any talk of "bridge years" this offseason.

 

[Darnell's Son]

And that message is what? Don't let your 2 best players get injured and miss the entire season? Gee, I think they got that one already.

Theo should have realized that would have happened and just spent the 10 million to get Tex!!!1!!1!!

 

[Carmine Hose]

More Texiera talk today.

 

[fenwaypaul]

More Texiera talk today.

It just never gets old, does it. That cheapskate meanie John Henry forced Teixeira to go to the Yankees. That's why we're stuck with a old crippled guy playing first base instead of a guy who hits two home runs every game. If the Sox owner had only offered a few million more dollars, Boras would never have made the phone call to Cashman dictating the final price.

I still have trouble sorting their histrionic voices: Felger is the alto and Mazz is the soprano?

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

I'm pretty sure the 30% drop in tv ratings got their attention. I don't expect to hear any talk of "bridge years" this offseason.

They raised payroll to $170 million over the offseason. If people are too fucking stupid to understand they were going for it this year that's not the Sox' problem.

There is no message that needs to be sent. 1/2 a game out of first place on July 3 despite the awful start before all the injuries hit. I'm pretty fucking tired of the insinuations by Mazz and others that the Sox' FO and ownership wrote off 2010 before it even started. That's beyond retarded thinking.

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

They raised payroll to $170 million over the offseason. If people are too fucking stupid to understand they were going for it this year that's not the Sox' problem.

If people continue to walk away from this team its most certainly their problem. And as I said, you won't be hearing Theo Epstein talk about "bridge years" any time soon.

Edit: And if "going for it" is throwing a gazillion dollars at fat John Lackey then they have another problem alltogether.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

If people continue to walk away from this team its most certainly their problem. And as I said, you won't be hearing Theo Epstein talk about "bridge years" any time soon.

Edit: And if "going for it" is throwing a gazillion dollars at fat John Lackey then they have another problem alltogether.

People "walked away" from the team based on a 4-9 start plus the Celtics and Bruins playoff runs. If that's all it takes to get fans to walk away from the Sox, then seriously, fuck them. Team was in contention until the injuries hit.

Anyone with a modicum of intelligence knew what "bridge year" meant: covering a gap between today and when the next set of prospects might be ready from the system. Thus the two-year deals given to Cameron and Scutaro, and the one year deal given to Beltre. Again, this is all perfectly reasonable; it took the shitheads in the media three seconds to willfully misinterpret that statement.

As to the second part of your statement, it's immaterial to the question at hand. Mazz is saying the Sox threw in the towel on the season before it began. You're arguing execution, which is an entirely different question.

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

As to the second part of your statement, it's immaterial to the question at hand. Mazz is saying the Sox threw in the towel on the season before it began. You're arguing execution, which is an entirely different question.

Mazz literally said that the ownership group was probably "secretly happy" when all the injuries occurred because it gave them an excuse for not making the playoffs and allowed to not invest any more money at the trade deadline. I called up and the two of us really got into it over this point (after they hung up on me he said, "God, I can't stand that guy..."). SJH is correct, there is plenty of room to criticize the front office decisions but this whole "they gave up and never wanted to compete with the Yankees this year" argument is bullshit. Bullshit.

 

[dcmissle]

Mazz literally said that the ownership group was probably "secretly happy" when all the injuries occurred because it gave them an excuse for not making the playoffs and allowed to not invest any more money at the trade deadline. I called up and the two of us really got into it over this point (after they hung up on me he said, "God, I can't stand that guy..."). SJH is correct, there is plenty of room to criticize the front office decisions but this whole "they gave up and never wanted to compete with the Yankees this year" argument is bullshit. Bullshit.

This is the pity and irony of the present situation.

The premise of the show -- it's stated reason for being, really -- was and remains "we're going to raise the bar for the local teams", three of which by any objective standard had been spectacularly successful this new century.

That's a noble mission, far preferable to fanboy ballwashing. But for God's sake , if you're going to insist that the local teams bring their A game, shouldn't you hold yourself to close to the same standard? Neither of them are even doing B-level work here and haven't for some time. Felger is B-minus on his very best days but more often brings the gentleman's C. Mazz is flunking out.

You can be entertaining and smart at the same time. You can connect with the listeners with cutting edge and intelligent criticisms, but they don't.

 

[wutang112878]

Mazz literally said that the ownership group was probably "secretly happy" when all the injuries occurred because it gave them an excuse for not making the playoffs and allowed to not invest any more money at the trade deadline. I called up and the two of us really got into it over this point (after they hung up on me he said, "God, I can't stand that guy..."). SJH is correct, there is plenty of room to criticize the front office decisions but this whole "they gave up and never wanted to compete with the Yankees this year" argument is bullshit. Bullshit.

When was this? During the baseball reporters?

Thats really pathetic, his argument is really flawed. Not 'going all in' this year doesnt mean the front office didnt try. Theo was allegedly willing to eat 80% of Lowells contract just to gain the roster spot flexibility. Now, if we were packaging DiceK and Lowell with Lester to just dump payroll, then we could criticize ownership. But when they spend at record levels its obvious they are trying.

I guess Mazz wants the RedSox to make every move possible every signle year as long as they have a chance at the playoffs, and if ownership doesnt do that they are failing the fanbase.

 

[pat3734]

At first, I thought this must be the day that he's devoting the entire show to Teixeira talk, but then I realized you said it would be after the Red Sox season had officially ended, so this just must be his regularly scheduled daily Teixeira talk, not his special whole show one.

Well Judy, I thought he said (earlier in the week) "this Friday", but then he said when the season was officially over, so I assumed he meant next Friday, as, ahem, the season is not over until the "math" lady sings. So, I guess I missed it, as I had the Sox pre-game on. Snap. :buddy:

 

[shawnrbu]

Mazz is infatuated with middle of the order bats and "30/100" guys as he and Felger like to call it. He blames Theo for not grooming enough of those players and Henry for not spending the money to bring in those kind of bats. He thought Theo absolutely had to bring back Bay and sign another "30/100" guy after last season's divisional series sweep. When they passed on Bay, they needed to get two of them and Mazz thinks that is where the team failed.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Mazz is infatuated with middle of the order bats and "30/100" guys as he and Felger like to call it. He blames Theo for not grooming enough of those players and Henry for not spending the money to bring in those kind of bats. He thought Theo absolutely had to bring back Bay and sign another "30/100" guy after last season's divisional series sweep. When they passed on Bay, they needed to get two of them and Mazz thinks that is where the team failed.

Has Mazz noticed:

- Jason Bay's numbers this year?
- Adrian Beltre's numbers this year?
- that the Sox are 2nd in the majors in runs scored?

For the record, if Mazz wanted to throw darts at the FO this year I can give him a few starters:

- wasn't it overly risky to sign a 37 CFer to a two year deal and count on him to be healthy and play every day?
- why pay so much and so many years for a starting pitcher with declining peripherals and at an iffy age?
- were Joe Nelson and Scott Acthison really the only guys considered for bullpen additions?

All legit questions, and all interesting ones. But don't give me this "the Sox weren't trying to win this year" bullshit.

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

When was this? During the baseball reporters?

Thats really pathetic, his argument is really flawed. Not 'going all in' this year doesnt mean the front office didnt try. Theo was allegedly willing to eat 80% of Lowells contract just to gain the roster spot flexibility. Now, if we were packaging DiceK and Lowell with Lester to just dump payroll, then we could criticize ownership. But when they spend at record levels its obvious they are trying.

I guess Mazz wants the RedSox to make every move possible every signle year as long as they have a chance at the playoffs, and if ownership doesnt do that they are failing the fanbase.

He said it about a month ago or so on his regular show with Felger. It was a ridiculous comment and when I called in and gave him shit about it, he didn't back off one bit.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

I've said this before but I'm one of the 30% dropoff in viewership this season, between work and kids I haven't had the time or desire to sit down to watch a full game on TV since April or May. As a result I don't talk about the Red Sox very often and I especially don't try to discuss their weaknesses.

Felger and Mazz are paid to discuss sports mostly the local teams, presumably watching the local teams play would be a pre-requisite, when both Felger and Mazz reiterated that they have not watched a single Red Sox Pitch in 3 weeks but continue to harp on the same shit I immediately shut them off. I don't have a problem with Felger not watching a full game because he is pulled a boatload of different directions with TSH and Comcast Sportsnet and is pretty much catching a majority of what he needs to prepping for those shows.

But there is no excuse for Mazz and it shows when he falls back on the same old Teixeira argument over and over and over again. I hope he gets fired soon.

 

[judyb]

Well Judy, I thought he said (earlier in the week) "this Friday", but then he said when the season was officially over, so I assumed he meant next Friday, as, ahem, the season is not over until the "math" lady sings. So, I guess I missed it, as I had the Sox pre-game on. Snap. :buddy:

I'd be stunned if he was paying enough attention to know they haven't been mathematically eliminated yet, but you'd think they'd go ahead and start doing a hockey show or whatever they're going to do once it is. This is just a complete waste of an hour.

 

[Blacken]

"I haven't been in the clubhouse since April" - Tony Massarotti

And you have a show called "The Baseball Reporters"? Holy shit. Get him off the air.

 

[Blacken]

Oh god. What a fucking trainwreck. We're back on the "Sox are cheap!!11" topic.

Fuck it, silence is preferable.

 

[mikeford]

"I haven't been in the clubhouse since April" - Tony Massarotti

And you have a show called "The Baseball Reporters"? Holy shit. Get him off the air.

Why exactly is this guy employed by the Globe again?

 

[Blacken]

I just realized I'm turning into HomeBrew on this topic.

Son of a bitch.

 

[NickEsasky]

He's also admitted to barely watching the team since the Tampa series. No wonder the guy beats the Teixeira drum everyday he never watches the team and has nothing else to talk about.

 

[underhandtofirst]

Mazz has Bill Smith the GM of the Twins last week to talk about bullpen construction and it was actually an interesting interview. I thought this is what the show should be about, instead of 60 min platform for Mazz to vent about the Sox. Anyway, near the end Bill Smith mentions that he's from New England (I think NH) and that he grew up as a Sox fan. Smith said that he has to forget about being a Sox fan now that he's GM of the Twins and Mazz pipes in, that he has does the same thing. Mazz' comment was pure venom towards the Sox while Smith's comment was more about how that was part of his upbringing, enjoying the Sox, there was no ill intent whatsoever. Smith came across as someone who enjoys baseball, Mazz as just an a-hole.

 

[judyb]

He's also admitted to barely watching the team since the Tampa series. No wonder the guy beats the Teixeira drum everyday he never watches the team and has nothing else to talk about.

I can understand why one of the missions of that station is to make the Red Sox and baseball as irrelevant as they possibly can, but there's a point at which their efforts become so transparent that it's embarrassing and it will become self-defeating if the Red Sox are successful in the future.

 

[EricM80]

Has Tony Mazz also noticed that in year two Mark Teixeira is already not playing all that special?

He is currently ranked 11th among qualified first basemen in OPS. He is a 3.4 WAR player this year, only worth $13.7 million, according to Fangraphs.

I guarantee you if the Red Sox had, in fact, signed him he be arguing that they were morons for doing so.

 

[dirtynine]

Being a paid sports journalist and bragging about not watching or covering your local 90-win baseball team because they don't measure up to past World Series winner is flat-out wrong.

 

[judyb]

The offense going forward is a concern, and when he comes back, he'll tell us why.

 

[mikeford]

So despite the fact that we lost 1000+ man games to injury this year, apparently talking about the injuries as a reason the Sox missed out on a pennant race isnt valid... so says sagely Mazz.

 

[Haunted]

At least Mazz's awful Baseball Show is over this week...

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

So despite the fact that we lost 1000+ man games to injury this year, apparently talking about the injuries as a reason the Sox missed out on a pennant race isnt valid... so says sagely Mazz.

I actually go music when Mazz starts talking baseball. Not because I disagree......in general I'm on board with him....but its how he's constructed his argument. Its 3 seperate talking points repeated over and over and over again. There is zero give and take, no discussion or compromize, which leaves him on an island that he can't get off of anytime soon. And on top of that its not even remotely entertaining to listen to. If pressed I would guess he's disgusted with himself how he's "played" this. There is a good chance it gets him fired, because if a guy like me, who fucking AGREES with him, can't stand how its being presented, he's got no chance.

 

[Gambler7]

Holy crap this Mazz 5 point plan for the Sox off-season is brutal. Why not name it "go out and sign all the top free agents"?

 

[mikeford]

Holy crap this Mazz 5 point plan for the Sox off-season is brutal. Why not name it "go out and sign all the top free agents"?

Or say "be the New York Yankees"


Theo Epstein at 4pm on Friday.

That oughta be good.

 

[RedOctober3829]

So despite the fact that we lost 1000+ man games to injury this year, apparently talking about the injuries as a reason the Sox missed out on a pennant race isnt valid... so says sagely Mazz.

From this list of players
Victor Martinez, Kevin Youkilis, Jacoby Ellsbury, Dustin Pedroia, Mike Cameron, Mike Lowell, Jason Varitek, and Jed Lowrie

there were approx(depending how many games Lowell and Tek play this week) 765 man games missed due to injury. 327 of those man games were missed by 4 of the top 5 guys in the lineup on Opening Day.

But, Mazz doesn't want to incorporate injuries into where the team finished in the standings. What a douche.

 

[judyb]

Holy crap this Mazz 5 point plan for the Sox off-season is brutal. Why not name it "go out and sign all the top free agents"?

His plan is essentially: re-sign Victor, re-sign or replace Beltre and Ortiz, and add 2 good relief pitchers. And explore trading a bunch of players for better players.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Mazz is thinking about making Beckett a closer.......c'mon man.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Mazz is thinking about making Beckett a closer.......c'mon man.

Mazz is playing the classic wrestling heel. I fully expect him to hit Felger with a folding chair one day.

TURN OFF THOSE F*CKING RADIOS. All Mazz wants is attention. Turn them off. Kill their ratings. STOP TAKING THE BAIT.

 

[mikeford]

And now they're arguing about Carl Crawford's RBI numbers. My brain just stroked out. Goodnight F&M. I can't wait til hockey season starts so someone on this show can actually be open to a different opinion than their own about a sport.

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

I don't listen to the show anymore when Mazz talks baseball. I literally close my browser and try back in an hour to two (or not at all). I'm all for slamming the Sox on Lackey, the medical staff, and other debateable issues, but the repetitive shit that Mazz harps on? No thanks. He's killing the show imo.

 

[DieHardSoxFan1]

And now they're arguing about Carl Crawford's RBI numbers. My brain just stroked out. Goodnight F&M. I can't wait til hockey season starts so someone on this show can actually be open to a different opinion than their own about a sport.

But what are your other options?

 

[judyb]

I can't wait until Felger asks Theo Epstein how he could have been so stupid as to think anyone would buy his phony run prevention scam. He's going to ask him that, right?

 

[Sparky Lyle]

Mazz is playing the classic wrestling heel. I fully expect him to hit Felger with a folding chair one day.

TURN OFF THOSE F*CKING RADIOS. All Mazz wants is attention. Turn them off. Kill their ratings. STOP TAKING THE BAIT.

I tried that. So I went over to 'EEI and listened to Ron Borges and Glenn Ordway scream and yell at each other. I went back to TSH.

For the record, I'm with Rocco on this.

 

[dcmissle]

I tried that. So I went over to 'EEI and listened to Ron Borges and Glenn Ordway scream and yell at each other. I went back to TSH.

For the record, I'm with Rocco on this.

Well that's very interesting -- were Ron and Glenn at each others' throats today? If so, over what?

Ordway and the two Neanderthals on Monday were as negative towards the Pats as I've ever heard them. It was different yelling and screaming -- not toward the callers for a change.

So is the borgie/Ordway yelling and screaming over "the system" or old stuff like drafting Seymour?

Is this 'EEI's 'strategery'?

Interestingly, Borges is as boxed in on the Pats as Mazz is on the Sox. And in both cases it's substantially fueled by the team's alleged "abuse" of a source/binkie -- Bledsoe in the former case, Nomar in the latter.

 

[judyb]

I just realized Mazz is putting Felipe Lopez in his starting lineup for next season instead of Scutaro.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Mazz was absolutely brutal yesterday. When B-Real tried to make some sense to his argument he refused to listen and sounded like a petulent child. "What about this Mazz?" "NO, Uh uh"

Great fucking radio Mazz, go back to trolling for readers of the Globe, because at best this is all an act and he is trolling for listeners but I'm pretty sure he believes his own shit and is really that stupid.

 

[Scoots McBoots]

Mazz said he's going to ask Theo about Teixeira. Ugh.

 

[Smiling Joe Hesketh]

Turn off the radio right now. RIGHT NOW.

 

[Scoots McBoots]

Done and done.