Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time

Frisbetarian

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I also agree with Felger and Rocco, and am looking forward to seeing Taylor Price play. The kid ran an electronically timed 4.33 40, is big (6'0" 211 lbs), and strong (19 reps at 225). He also is supposed to have very good hands.

Oh yeah, and Maz is an embarrassment. Guy doesn't watch games and doesn't take the time to learn information critical to his friggin' job. His aversion to work is unreal.
 

dcmissle

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I also agree with Felger and Rocco, and am looking forward to seeing Taylor Price play. The kid ran an electronically timed 4.33 40, is big (6'0" 211 lbs), and strong (19 reps at 225). He also is supposed to have very good hands.

Oh yeah, and Maz is an embarrassment. Guy doesn't watch games and doesn't take the time to learn information critical to his friggin' job. His aversion to work is unreal.
It was a common misconception you corrected in the Moss thread. But if this is your job and you don't know, at least don't make an affirmative point on it -- only to be proven wrong.

The great thing about this story is it's creation of unnatural alliances -- Rocco and Felger have hoisted BB on their shoulders and are parading him around like Buddy Ryan.
 

Rocco Graziosa

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It was a common misconception you corrected in the Moss thread. But if this is your job and you don't know, at least don't make an affirmative point on it -- only to be proven wrong.

The great thing about this story is it's creation of unnatural alliances -- Rocco and Felger have hoisted BB on their shoulders and are parading him around like Buddy Ryan.

LOL YES!!

Hey maybe this Belichick isn't spreading himself too thin these days afterall. :lol:
 

TFP

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Just turned it on, glad to hear that's the tact Felger is taking. Not for nothing, but the guy is genuine and doesn't seem to be taking one tact b/c it's "anti-patriot" then completely changing your tune when the situation changes.

Also known as pulling a Borges.
 

Blacken

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Christ, these callers make normal callers look sane. "Moss is like Nomar, neither of them got rings!"

Derp.
 

jsinger121

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What do I make of Felger's stand today? Is he being serious when he thinks the Pats are going to be better off or is this just schtick?
He is definitely serious. He thinks Brady will be at his best when he doesn't need to focus on Moss anymore and focus on throwing to the open receiver.
 

Judge Mental13

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Just because he's been saying it for a while it doesn't mean it's not a schtick....

I only listened for a bit today and I thought that while Felger was saying what he had to say in an interesting way at no point was the actual case very compelling.
 

Rocco Graziosa

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That was as uncomfortable as 2 relatives yelling at each other at the dinner table.
Please elborate.


Felger was incredible today. I felt like I was in control of a radio station. Good times......... negative dickheads (who tell it like it is?) like me don't often take control in a pom pom market like this.

I second Felgers prediction.........the pats are going to the AFC Championship game. Book it.
 

jcd0805

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Please elborate.


Felger was incredible today. I felt like I was in control of a radio station. Good times......... negative dickheads like me don't often take control in a pom pom market like this.

I second Felgers prediction.........the pats are going to the AFC Championship game. Book it.
Borges said the Pats offense is much worse without Randy, Felger then read an article Borges wrote last year documenting Randy's declining production. Felger called Borges a fraud because Borges harped on Randy being terrible whenever Randy was still in BB's good graces, but as soon as BB cut Randy loose Borges was proclaiming BB was an idiot for doing so. Borges was stuttering and muttering and calling Felger an idiot, that was awesome tv right there.
 

Rocco Graziosa

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Borges said the Pats offense is much worse without Randy, Felger then read an article Borges wrote last year documenting Randy's declining production. Felger called Borges a fraud because Borges harped on Randy being terrible whenever Randy was still in BB's good graces, but as soon as BB cut Randy loose Borges was proclaiming BB was an idiot for doing so. Borges was stuttering and muttering and calling Felger an idiot, that was awesome tv right there.
I just got an erection.

Edit: Felger was HAMMERING Moss' decline in production with stats today. He was most certainly prepared for THAT.
 

jcd0805

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Ha now Borges takes down Tanguay, who reported last night that BB and Moss had a heated confrontation on Tuesday, by saying to Tanguay that they never spoke on Tuesday and the only thing that happened was Moss ignoring BB on the plane ride home. Tanguay just sat there with his mouth open and a dumb look on his face. Good times.
 

shawnrbu

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Basically, Felger used the Pats 2nd half offensive scoring stats on the road since 09 to declare that the offense sucked with Moss. And couldn't be worse without him. Borges countered with the offense being the highest scoring in the NFL in 2010. Both had polar opposite views and were unwilling to find a middle ground.

Borges took something of a cheapshot at Felger's football acumen. Felger brought it back to the classic Brady vs. Bledsoe debate of nearly 10 years ago.

Also, Borges shot down Tanguay's report of Belichick and Moss having a confrontation on Tuesday. Tanguay must be a hell of a nice guy for not taking more heat for this errant reporting.
 

Rocco Graziosa

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Ha now Borges takes down Tanguay, who reported last night that BB and Moss had a heated confrontation on Tuesday, by saying to Tanguay that they never spoke on Tuesday and the only thing that happened was Moss ignoring BB on the plane ride home. Tanguay just sat there with his mouth open and a dumb look on his face. Good times.
I KNEW Tanguay was full of shit when he reported that last night. Awesome he got called out on it. I'm sure Moss was disgruntled and shot, silently, out of town, but the confrontation that he reported happened Tuesday didn't add up. I hope he gets fired for it. Again.
 

jcd0805

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I just got an erection.

Edit: Felger was HAMMERING Moss' decline in production with stats today. He was most certainly prepared for THAT.

Exactly, and he had Borges' own article from LAST year documenting the same thing. He totally drove home the point that Borges has an irrational hatred of BB and that nothing BB does will ever be right in Borges' sick little head. He even threw in Borges saying that Bledsoe was a better quarterback than Brady all those years ago when that debate was raging, Felger was pure gold tonight.
 

Rocco Graziosa

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Exactly, and he had Borges' own article from LAST year documenting the same thing. He totally drove home the point that Borges has an irrational hatred of BB and that nothing BB does will ever be right in Borges' sick little head. He even threw in Borges saying that Bledsoe was a better quarterback than Brady all those years ago when that debate was raging, Felger was pure gold tonight.

I'm gonna sleep well tonight. Today was my Christmas as a Pats fan. Fucking awesome.
 

Rocco Graziosa

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If Felger keeps this up he's gonna reshape the Boston sports media in how they cover these teams. You better have an honest opinion or your toast..........from the pom pom waving assholes at EEI to the mudrucking hate of Borges.
 

Harry Hooper

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Re-broadcast just started, Borges coming up in a bit.

Felger, "This is the greatest day of my life."
 

LMontro

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That was great TV. Felger looking right at Borges and calling him a fraud was awesome and I am glad that Jackie and Tanguay knew enough to just let them go at each other.
 

AimingForYoko

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That was uncomfortable and awesome as hell. And Jackie just letting them go. Definitely a Stop.Rewind.Play to the whole Borges segment.
 

NortheasternPJ

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They just played this on Toucher and Rich, that was fucking awesome. I'm waiting for the replay today on CSN to watch it all.

Edit: It's back on now (in case you aren't at work) but it's on all day.
 

NickEsasky

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He is definitely serious. He thinks Brady will be at his best when he doesn't need to focus on Moss anymore and focus on throwing to the open receiver.
Of course those receivers need to be able to get open.

I second Felgers prediction.........the pats are going to the AFC Championship game. Book it.
And if not you'll eat a log of your own shit right Rocco?
 

HomeBrew1901

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I just sat in my car for five minutes listening to this on T&R, fantastic exchange and nice to see Felger take Borges to task and not roll over.

Borges had one point and tried to belittle Felger, while Felger not only had numbers to back up his opinion of "Where was Randy when it counted" but also used Borges own words to destroy him.

Awesome.

edit: I think Borges is just about done in Boston. Between the plagiarism charge, his fights with Ordway on EEI, and now last night on CSN I'm not sure why any of these shows will have him on unless they want a professional whipping boy.

Borges has no credibility in this town anymore so all he is going to have is the Herald gig and he may lose that if he isn't getting any face time on TV.
 

Judge Mental13

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I missed the show, what stats did Felger cite? I have a problem with the idea that "close and late" stats for WR are actually indicative of anything.
 

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I just heard it on T & R a little while ago. The best part was hearing Fred and Rich laugh every time Borges made fun of Felger. I can't wait to hear this again.
 

HomeBrew1901

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I missed the show, what stats did Felger cite? I have a problem with the idea that "close and late" stats for WR are actually indicative of anything.
Not exactly close and late, but going back to when the game was on the line and the team needed Randy the most, specifically in the second half of some pretty brutal losses the last 2 seasons, that he was unable to deliver, which he also blamed Brady for as well.

If you've listened to Felger the last 3 months he's been pretty consistent on his opinion on this point.
 

dcmissle

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We're apparently past the point of Borges warranting his own thread, so I'll put this here. It belongs here also because it mirrors Mazz' outlook.

An excerpt from his Herald column this morning:

One defensive coach from an upcoming Patriots opponent couldn't fathom Belichick's decision.

"I don't understand the thinking," he told the Herald yesterday. "Every defensive game plan against the Patriots starts with (the question), 'How are you going to handle Randy Moss?' You got to deal with Moss before you think about anything else.

"Long term getting rid of him may make sense, but unless they've got a Plan B, this just made it a lot more difficult for them to score points and they're going to need to score points to win this year."

The decision to dump Moss' contract and mercurial personality is a move akin to last year's dispatch of Seymour to the Oakland Raiders for a 2011 first-round pick. Maybe down the road that will bring a high yield, but what the Seymour trade led to was Belichick losing his locker room last year once the players realized he'd traded their season away for the long-term future of a team many of them might not be on. That's when the grousing and doubting began. Now he's done the same with the exiling of Moss, which Belichick tried to spin yesterday as a Christian act of charity.
The first and second paragraphs could be entitled "talent uber alles" and are reminiscent of the old Manny apologist posts (some of this is beginning to creep into the Moss trade thread too).

The anonymous defensive coach doesn't understand, really? OK, here goes: (i) Even on game day, the choice is not between the old Randy and no Randy; it's between a disgruntled Randy ("we're spreading the ball around") and no Randy; (ii) this guy, presumably not responsible for such matters, ignores the broader picture: the potentially toxic effect of a disgruntled Randy on the practice field and in the locker room, places that had to undergo environmental remediation after last season.

This is nothing like the Seymour deal, which can be criticized -- or praised -- fairly, but on completely different grounds. (Borges' effort to blame Seymour's departure for the sour locker room is cheeky and about as well grounded as TJ's on air criticism at the beginning of the 2003 season. Did Seymour alone phone that in -- or was Bledsoe on the line too?).

This is particularly annoying because if you want to criticize how this went down, there is ample room cited right there in the column -- the absence of a Plan B. You can argue strongly that with very good WRs available in the past offseason at modest prices (at ridiculously low prices for the Pats considering how they are stacked in the 2011 draft), the Pats should have gotten them one.

There is one reason and one reason only Borges doesn't go there: he is star obsessed, just like Mazz. Pay through the ass for every big name, and if you don't, you're cheap, stupid and don't want to win. There is a reason underlying this obsession -- stars make good sources.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Borges is an irrelevant, hateful, delusional has-been who's disgraced his profession multiple times. You're goddamn right he doesn't deserve his own thread, or even a mention beyond getting himself a new asshole ripped by the soft, white-handed likes of Michael Felger.

I didn't hear the exchange, but I LOVE the fact that someone finally showed, in public, the depths of Borges' hypocrisy and sheer bile. Using his own words against him like that is priceless. He'll never get shitcanned because he works for a paper utterly lacking in basic standards, but his reputation continues to sink and I couldn't be happier.
 

TheRealness

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Felger is going off on the Bergeron contract right now. He sounds really stupid. $5m is FMV for Bergeron, considering what Kessler got out in Vancouver as well as other similar comparables. Then he starts comparing it to the Thomas contract. Yikes. Come on, Mike. Really?

Mazz is just parroting him, which is more frustrating.

I love these guys, but this is bad.
 

Salem's Lot

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Felger is going off on the Bergeron contract right now. He sounds really stupid. $5m is FMV for Bergeron, considering what Kessler got out in Vancouver as well as other similar comparables. Then he starts comparing it to the Thomas contract. Yikes. Come on, Mike. Really?

Mazz is just parroting him, which is more frustrating.

I love these guys, but this is bad.

He just called Chara "a good number 2 defenseman". I appreciate that he likes hockey and wants to talk about it, but that comment really makes me question his overall knowledge of the game.
 

Blacken

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I am a complete moron when it comes to hockey (just ask RMPS) but holy hell was it apparent even to me that Felger was so full of shit his teeth were brown.

Chara. A number 2 defenseman. How many GMs would sell their grandmothers for that number 2 defenseman?
 

TheRealness

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I am a complete moron when it comes to hockey (just ask RMPS) but holy hell was it apparent even to me that Felger was so full of shit his teeth were brown.

Chara. A number 2 defenseman. How many GMs would sell their grandmothers for that number 2 defenseman?

A lot. It's so obvious it's not even worth getting into.

But he just said the Bruins were paying $5m a year for "a 17 goal player". When Bergeron was healthy, he was a 70 point player. The year he came back after his horrific injury, his season was plagued by another concussion, and he scored just 8 goals. However, that year his shooting percentage was WAY down to 5%. His career avg is about 10-12%. Last year, he played 73 games and scored 19 goals when he was primarily responsible for shadowing the other team's best line. Moreover, he was clearly better at the end of the year where he was more productive. Including having 11 points in 13 games in the playoffs.

I just don't get where his argument is coming from. It's like he's essentially saying 2008-2009 Bergeron is the real thing, and the guy that showed up last year and in the playoffs, and the guy before the Jones hit, was the aberration.

Pure. Contrarianism.
 

HomeBrew1901

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Felger has a knack for downgrading talent that hasn't won a championship. Borges is right about one thing. Felger would have been the guy ripping Ted during that era.
The irony here is that Borges and Shaugnessy would be the two leading the charge about how much of a prick and how overrated Williams is.

(I'm not saying he was overrated, they would have been at the time.)
 

mcpickl

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A lot. It's so obvious it's not even worth getting into.

But he just said the Bruins were paying $5m a year for "a 17 goal player". When Bergeron was healthy, he was a 70 point player. The year he came back after his horrific injury, his season was plagued by another concussion, and he scored just 8 goals. However, that year his shooting percentage was WAY down to 5%. His career avg is about 10-12%. Last year, he played 73 games and scored 19 goals when he was primarily responsible for shadowing the other team's best line. Moreover, he was clearly better at the end of the year where he was more productive. Including having 11 points in 13 games in the playoffs.

I just don't get where his argument is coming from. It's like he's essentially saying 2008-2009 Bergeron is the real thing, and the guy that showed up last year and in the playoffs, and the guy before the Jones hit, was the aberration.

Pure. Contrarianism.
What I find most ironic about it is, he's the guy saying it's OK Moss is gone because it's not all about scoring points, then is using only Bergerons' goal totals to make his point he's overpaid. So it's not all about points when talking about a guy who only plays offense in a sport, but it is all about points who plays both ways in a sport and whose strength is his all around game? Good to know.
 

lexrageorge

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Borges: The classic Borges was last spring, when he wrote that because he himself wasn't smart enough to understand UZR and OPS, their use by Theo Epstein was therefore flawed. And then went on a rant about he much prefers batting average and RBI. Anyway, by calling Bill Belichick nothing more than a gym teacher this past week in one of his columns, he may have done the team a service. After all, "they hate their coach" has already been tried, and he couldn't take a chance of getting a 2nd count of plagiarism.

Felger is entertaining, but comes across as knowing nothing about hockey or how things work in the NHL.
 

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I'm steeling myself for four hours worth of how great the Ravens looked yesterday and how the Pats are going to get absolutely murdered by them next week. Particularly from Mazz, who is never happier than when he's predicting doom to befall one of the local franchises.
 

teddykgb

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i don't think felger is going to tolerate any negativity around the Pats this week. The bye week and lack of actual play means nothing is stopping his megaboner over this Moss thing, which means if Mazz shows up with that stuff Felger will surely play it down.