Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time

[NortheasternPJ]

So far #1 no one gets hurt on PAT, it was a freak thing #2 Luck wasn't great but did things like step up in the pocket and is going to be great in the long term and #3 it's stupid to boo Vinatieri. Seems pretty rational to me so far.

Too bad certain people got worked up on something that hasn't happened. There's still 2 hours left so there's still time!

 

[Phenom]

Anyone else find it a little weird that Felger and Mazz are so openly advocating for Beetle to take over D.A.'s spot?

That has to be a sign Beetle will get the show, right? I mean, it would be a little awkward if Rich Keefe or somebody else is named the new host after this.

Or maybe this is will all come to a climax on New Year's Eve, and Beetle will lock himself in the studio until he gets his own show!

 

[Jackson]

But but but Jackson called them Vulgar and Spazz and knew two hours after the game what the dialogue was going to be??? If you can't trust a post like that what can you trust?

Typically, one can only ever reasonably trust one's mother...

 

[Sparky Lyle]

Typically, one can only ever reasonably trust one's mother...

What?

 

[LoneWarrior1]

Anyone else find it a little weird that Felger and Mazz are so openly advocating for Beetle to take over D.A.'s spot?

That has to be a sign Beetle will get the show, right? I mean, it would be a little awkward if Rich Keefe or somebody else is named the new host after this.

Or maybe this is will all come to a climax on New Year's Eve, and Beetle will lock himself in the studio until he gets his own show!

I don't get the sense that it is a done deal. If it was, I doubt that they'd be pushing this hard for listeners to contact station management about their preference. I think Beetle's earned his shot and would be great in D.A.'s slot.

I sent a vote of confidence to mike.thomas@cbsradio. From all the web contests in P&G, we know what happens when SoSH decides to get behind something.

 

[RedOctober3829]

Felger and Mazz were hilarious discussing the Pats-Jets game.

 

[riboflav]

Ooooohhhh let me guess: Jets handed them the win. We still don't know who the Pats are. The Pats won't and haven't played anyone good (but Balt whom they lost to) until Houston - who is no longer very good anyway.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Ooooohhhh let me guess: Jets handed them the win. We still don't know who the Pats are. The Pats won't and haven't played anyone good (but Balt whom they lost to) until Houston - who is no longer very good anyway.

Wrong-o.

 

[Granite Sox]

They were full of giggles taking input on a sobriquet for "arguably the most embarrassing play in football history":

The Bum-ble
The Oven Stuffer
The SanchAss
The Fumblepooski
The Poop and Score
The Asstue of Liberty

... And their basic take: Rexy, Sanchize, and Tanny all need to go (the Jets are stuck with Sanchez, but should still bench him at $8M per year)

Tony's new binky is RGIII: he "gets it". Hard-hitting.

Gasper was on and seemed bemused.

Edit: Felger still called out the defense for a bit. "There are 9 1st- or 2nd-round draft picks" playing regularly on the defense... They should be much better than this. He's right.

 

[dcmissle]

They were full of giggles taking input on a sobriquet for "arguably the most embarrassing play in football history":

The Bum-ble
The Oven Stuffer
The SanchAss
The Fumblepooski
The Poop and Score
The Asstue of Liberty

... And their basic take: Rexy, Sanchize, and Tanny all need to go (the Jets are stuck with Sanchez, but should still bench him at $8M per year)

Tony's new binky is RGIII: he "gets it". Hard-hitting.

Gasper was on and seemed bemused.

Why the Jets were so recently the cutting edge franchise, were they not? These two jackasses must have an awful case of whiplash.

Felger -- 10 years a beat writer for an NFL franchise. LOL.

 

[steveluck7]

The Asstue of Liberty

You see, when I heard it and thought of the play, I spelled the above as "Ass-chew of liberty" which, IMO is better

 

[Leather]

The obvious answer is The Bum Rush.

http://m.urbandictionary.com/#define?term=bum%20rush

 

[riboflav]

Wrong-o.

I stand corrected though Felger must have changed his opinion from the previous night.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Why the Jets were so recently the cutting edge franchise, were they not? These two jackasses must have an awful case of whiplash.

Felger -- 10 years a beat writer for an NFL franchise. LOL.

You're right he should continue taking this stance even though he now knows that he was wrong. That makes for much better radio.

Bob Ryan -- 40 plus years covering sports in Boston thought the Garnett trade was horrible the day it happened, he would have been a much better columnist if he stuck by that theory after the won the championship... It works for Borges.

 

[Quiddity]

You're right he should continue taking this stance even though he now knows that he was wrong. That makes for much better radio.

Bob Ryan -- 40 plus years covering sports in Boston thought the Garnett trade was horrible the day it happened, he would have been a much better columnist if he stuck by that theory after the won the championship... It works for Borges.

So has Felger admitted how monumentally wrong he was when for nearly 3 years he was proclaiming the Jets as a better team than the Pats, better at building the team than the Pats, etc...? He's often praised for admitting he's wrong. Funny, I listen all the time, and really all I can remember is him arrogantly mocking the Patriots about "finally being better than the Jets" when someone brought it up to him a while back. Its good to finally be superior than them. All those Jets championships, Super Bowl appearances and division titles that they've won the past 40+ years are a hard thing to overcome. What will he have to say about his "cap is crap" mantra when the Jets keep Sanchez on the roster next year due to cap reasons?

 

[HomeBrew1901]

So you want a public mea culpa every time he has an opinion and is wrong? That's basically what it comes down to, he's not a Patriot fan and anything he says that is anti-Patriot or Anti-Belichick that turns out to be incorrect must publicly atone for that sin?

Funny for someone that listens all the time you sure seem to hate the show. You'd think you might find something better to do with your time.

Edit: and if you listen all the time I'm sure you heard Bertrand taking Felger to task about his stances on the Jets over the years BEFORE Thursday's game. Tell me, how many other hosts on any show on either station allow the third chair to challenge them and tool on them for incorrect stances.

 

[dcmissle]

The irony is that Felger is Captain Character, Mr. Intangibles -- or so he postures. After all, Felger not facetiously prodded Belichick to draft Tebow -- among other reasons, Felger said, because Tom Brady needed to be "goosed".

So how did his beloved, cutting edge Jets fall apart? Almost immediately, and principally, upon populating their roster with a slew of low character, no account guys. Delicious.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Great, we get it, you don't like Felger.

 

[Sparky Lyle]

Great, we get it, you don't like Felger.

You are wasting your breath. Or muscles, as the case may be.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

That's why I stopped Sparky. When it comes to Felger people either enjoy listening to him or they don't and the people that don't seem to loathe him and cherry pick parts of what he said in making a point. I never wanted Tebow, but before he was drafted Felger laid out a very strong case for him where one could objectively see where he was coming from even while disagreeing with him. Part of it was letting him back up Brady for 4-5 years while playing other positions and learning to be a solid QB under Belichick and Brady.

Guys like Dcmissle only hear and remember the "goose Brady" part and throw out the rest of the argument as invalid.

 

[dcmissle]

That's why I stopped Sparky. When it comes to Felger people either enjoy listening to him or they don't and the people that don't seem to loathe him and cherry pick parts of what he said in making a point. I never wanted Tebow, but before he was drafted Felger laid out a very strong case for him where one could objectively see where he was coming from even while disagreeing with him. Part of it was letting him back up Brady for 4-5 years while playing other positions and learning to be a solid QB under Belichick and Brady.

Guys like Dcmissle only hear and remember the "goose Brady" part and throw out the rest of the argument as invalid.

There wasn't a strong case for Tebow. He cannot learn the QB position because, like many great college QBs, the skill set is not there. He's never been particularly accurate, his arm is not very strong, and his mechanics -- to which he always reverts -- are just awful. That was the strong consensus on the eve of that draft, which is why many people were urging a position switch, e.g., he may be a pretty good tight end. When you were steeped in the League, when you covered it for 10 years, you should know such things.

Felger had company here. Soxfan.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

There wasn't a strong case for Tebow. He cannot learn the QB position because, like many great college QBs, the skill set is not there. He's never been particularly accurate, his arm is not very strong, and his mechanics -- to which he always reverts -- are just awful. That was the strong consensus on the eve of that draft, which is why many people were urging a position switch, e.g., he may be a pretty good tight end. When you were steeped in the League, when you covered it for 10 years, you should know such things.

Felger had company here. Soxfan.

I see, so please tell me, if people that are steeped in the league should know such things, why are there so many busts in he first round and why did Brady drop to the 6th round?

I mean surely, this is what these folks do for a living, they actually get paid to scout and evaluate college talent for their NFL teams and not just write and discuss their opinions. How is it that things are so clear to you but not to them?

Edit 2: You also stated one of Felgers reasons for wanting Tebow, that he might be able to be a versatile player and play tight end or fullback, and Belichick loves players that can play multiple positions.

But yeah, Felger's a douche because he had an opinion about a guy that he liked that was drafted in the first round and led his team to the playoffs in his rookie season after that team had a 1-4 record before he became a starter.

 

[soxfan121]

There wasn't a strong case for Tebow. He cannot learn the QB position because, like many great college QBs, the skill set is not there. He's never been particularly accurate, his arm is not very strong, and his mechanics -- to which he always reverts -- are just awful. That was the strong consensus on the eve of that draft, which is why many people were urging a position switch, e.g., he may be a pretty good tight end. When you were steeped in the League, when you covered it for 10 years, you should know such things. Felger had company here. Soxfan.

First, that was never my opinion before the draft or, well, ever. The funhouse of your mind is not authoritative or accurate. Kindly retract your made up bullshit.

Second, you have an opinion on Tebow's skills coming out of college and Josh McDaniels has an opinion about Tebow's skills coming out of college. Pardon me for thinking McDaniels knows a metric fuckton bit more about these issues than you do.

Third, every "prediction" you've made concerning F&M content for a good long while now has been as accurate as a Tebow pass. Maybe you should just stop talking, Champ. We get it - not a fan, etc.

 

[dcmissle]

First, that was never my opinion before the draft or, well, ever. The funhouse of your mind is not authoritative or accurate. Kindly retract your made up bullshit.

Second, you have an opinion on Tebow's skills coming out of college and Josh McDaniels has an opinion about Tebow's skills coming out of college. Pardon me for thinking McDaniels knows a metric fuckton bit more about these issues than you do.

Third, every "prediction" you've made concerning F&M content for a good long while now has been as accurate as a Tebow pass. Maybe you should just stop talking, Champ. We get it - not a fan, etc.

Don't you think McDaniels' opinion has one hell of a lot to do with him being OC for the Pats rather than HC for the Broncos?

Tebow was projected as a mid rounder at best -- 3rd on the top side, and maybe as low as the 5th round. By the 4th round in the 2010 draft, the Pats bagged McCourty, Gronkowski, Spikes and Hernandez. And Felger took a jab at BB for his obsession with tight ends.

This retrospective is entirely fair. If Felger is expert in anything, it should be football.

 

[soxfan121]

Don't you think McDaniels' opinion has one hell of a lot to do with him being OC for the Pats rather than HC for the Broncos?

Tebow was projected as a mid rounder at best -- 3rd on the top side, and maybe as low as the 5th round. By the 4th round in the 2010 draft, the Pats bagged McCourty, Gronkowski, Spikes and Hernandez. And Felger took a jab at BB for his obsession with tight ends.

This retrospective is entirely fair. If Felger is expert in anything, it should be football.

You don't get to make up an argument, attach my name to it, ignore me when I correct you, and continue arguing your bullshit strawman.

But nice Felger imitation, asshole.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

This retrospective is entirely fair. If Felger is expert in anything, it should be football.

So, you're beef with Felger is that he isn't 100% right in his predictions? That's a bit unfair, isn't it?F

Like has been argued in every single one of these threads, Felger (and other sports writers) has to take a side. This is especially true on the radio. And it can't be nuanced and it has to be a bit bombastic. Fact not opinion, cap is crap, Green Teamers, Carmine, these are just established buzz words that they go to make their point so they don't have to spend 1/3 of their show explaining what they mean for the eight millionth time.

Unlike other media members, Felger does admit when he's wrong (he never apologizes though, which is par for the course) but on his big things, he's not going to do that. So the Pats can crush the Jets every week and Felger is not going to admit that he was wrong about Cap is Crap. Nor is he going to admit that for two years he and Maz said that "The Pats can't beat the Jets" despite the fact that the Patriots had a winning record against NYJ and that the duo were cherry-picking wins and losses as "good" and "bad". Most of the time things like the above just fade off into the ether when proven wrong.

Writers are never, ever, ever, ever going to say that they're wrong. Look at Nick Cafardo, all year he banged the Bobby Valentine drum despite it being a complete and total shit show. Has he said, "Maybe Valentine shouldn't have been the manager of this nine?" Fuck no. He just shifts the blame to the owners, the fans, the players, everyone except his binkie.

 

[dcmissle]

So, you're beef with Felger is that he isn't 100% right in his predictions? That's a bit unfair, isn't it?F

Like has been argued in every single one of these threads, Felger (and other sports writers) has to take a side. This is especially true on the radio. And it can't be nuanced and it has to be a bit bombastic. Fact not opinion, cap is crap, Green Teamers, Carmine, these are just established buzz words that they go to make their point so they don't have to spend 1/3 of their show explaining what they mean for the eight millionth time.

Unlike other media members, Felger does admit when he's wrong (he never apologizes though, which is par for the course) but on his big things, he's not going to do that. So the Pats can crush the Jets every week and Felger is not going to admit that he was wrong about Cap is Crap. Nor is he going to admit that for two years he and Maz said that "The Pats can't beat the Jets" despite the fact that the Patriots had a winning record against NYJ and that the duo were cherry-picking wins and losses as "good" and "bad". Most of the time things like the above just fade off into the ether when proven wrong.

Writers are never, ever, ever, ever going to say that they're wrong. Look at Nick Cafardo, all year he banged the Bobby Valentine drum despite it being a complete and total shit show. Has he said, "Maybe Valentine shouldn't have been the manager of this nine?" Fuck no. He just shifts the blame to the owners, the fans, the players, everyone except his binkie.

Not at all.

I get two things -- (1) Felger admits error when others often will not (2) This is entertainment.

Still, I expected a bit more from someone with his particular background and intelligence. Specifically,

1. The J-E-T-S Jets were not low hanging fruit. Fun, yes, but unless you were an imbecile you had to twist yourself into a pretzel to conclude they were on the come while the Pats were going down the drain.

2. Ditto the Tebow controversy. it was obviously feigned, as the Pats had (and have) more glaring needs. And Brady needing to be prodded from his contentment/slumber was a cheap shot.

By the way, none of the rants on these issue was particularly funny.

Go back to the essential, mission statement of this particular show -- *We're not going to ballwash, we're going to demand Boston teams raise their games.*

That's worthy, there is plenty of material, and you can have fun doing it. Just don't be stupid and unfair about stuff in your own wheelhouse.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Don't you think McDaniels' opinion has one hell of a lot to do with him being OC for the Pats rather than HC for the Broncos?

Tebow was projected as a mid rounder at best -- 3rd on the top side, and maybe as low as the 5th round. By the 4th round in the 2010 draft, the Pats bagged McCourty, Gronkowski, Spikes and Hernandez. And Felger took a jab at BB for his obsession with tight ends.

This retrospective is entirely fair. If Felger is expert in anything, it should be football.

I particularly like how you ignored this part of my post:

But yeah, Felger's a douche because he had an opinion about a guy that he liked that was drafted in the first round and led his team to the playoffs in his rookie season after that team had a 1-4 record before he became a starter.

 

[steveluck7]

1. The J-E-T-S Jets were not low hanging fruit. Fun, yes, but unless you were an imbecile you had to twist yourself into a pretzel to conclude they were on the come while the Pats were going down the drain.

This argument is fully revisionist. Felger's argument about the Jets was never that they were on the come while the pats were going down the drain. His argument was ALWAYS "why do Pats fans dismiss the Jets as a joke when your record against them over the past 2 seasons is .500?"
He never said the patriots were going down the drain, he simply stated that the Jets had been competitive with the patriots for a 2 + season stretch

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

I particularly like how you ignored this part of my post:

But yeah, Felger's a douche because he had an opinion about a guy that he liked that was drafted in the first round and led his team to the playoffs in his rookie season after that team had a 1-4 record before he became a starter.

It wasn't his rookie season. He rode the pine for most of his rookie season, only seeing the field after the team was locked out of the playoffs. Then when last season appeared lost, he got a chance and led his team to an oh-so-impressive 8-8 record with a -81 point differential, and backed into the playoffs by virtue of a tiebreaker and the unfortunate reality that someone had to represent the miserable AFC West in the post-season. His deserved reward for that "effort"? His team signed Peyton Manning to take his job and exiled him to New York so he could back up Mark freaking Sanchez. The fact that he has yet to supplant that dud says all that needs to be said about Tebow's quarterbacking skills.

 

[dcmissle]

This argument is fully revisionist. Felger's argument about the Jets was never that they were on the come while the pats were going down the drain. His argument was ALWAYS "why do Pats fans dismiss the Jets as a joke when your record against them over the past 2 seasons is .500?"
He never said the patriots were going down the drain, he simply stated that the Jets had been competitive with the patriots for a 2 + season stretch

We can agree to disagree:

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2011/11/michael-felger-circular-jets-arguments

http://www.csncalifornia.com/pages/landing_prodview_v3?blockID=168288&tagID=8330

 

[dcmissle]

We can agree to disagree:

http://www.bostonsportsmedia.com/2011/11/michael-felger-circular-jets-arguments

http://www.csncalifornia.com/pages/landing_prodview_v3?blockID=168288&tagID=8330

EDIT -- The latter piece is written by Felger. In relevant part:


I'll stop there with the Pats-Colts comparisons. They aren't pretty.

Unfortunately, neither are the Pats-Jets comparisons. The Jets, even in defeat, look like they're just getting started. That's another reason to cut short the victory dance.

The Jets are young, talented and under contract. Hard to believe, but just about every player that matters on their 53-man roster is either signed through next year or at least under team control. What's worse for Pats backers is that the Jets are young where it counts (quarterback, running back, left tackle, left corner) and not over-the-hill anywhere.

About the only player on their stellar defense who you would consider to be nearing the end is defensive end Shaun Ellis. He's 32 and his contract is up after the 2010 season. Just about everyone else on that side of the ball is locked and loaded. Even the players who feel like they should old or nearing the end of their contracts aren't. All-Pro nose tackle Kris Jenkins, whom the Jets managed to win without down the stretch, is 30 and has three years left. Calvin Pace, 29, Kerry Rhodes, 27, Bart Scott, 29 and Lito Sheppard, 28, all have at least three years remaining. Leading tackler David Harris is 25, although he's up after 2010.

The big one, of course, is Darrelle Revis, who is only 24 (24!) and has three years left on his rookie contract. While Revis has the right to opt out of the final two years of his deal after next season, the Jets also own the right to buy back those seasons at salaries of $5 million in 2011 and anywhere from $9-15 million based on incentives in 2012. The bottom line is that the best defensive player in football is firmly under the Jets control for three more years.

On offense, guard Al Fanaca, 33, and Damien Woody, 32, are getting a bit long in the tooth -- but not that long. Both have three years left on their deals. The only contract issues come with receiver Braylon Edwards and running back Leon Washington. Both were slated to become unrestricted free agents, but because of the adjusted rules of the uncapped 2010 season, both will now be restricted.

The rest of the key players on offense are very young and very under contract. Stud center Nick Mangold (one year left) is 26, as is left tackle D'Brickashaw Ferguson (two years remaining). Running back of the future Shonn Greene is 24 and tight end Dustin Keller is 25. Both have three years reaming on their contracts.

Lastly, quarterback Mark Sanchez is just 23 (23!) and has four years left on his rookie deal.

The only unrestricted free agents of any note on the Jets are kicker Jay Feely (not a big loss after his performance on Sunday) and right tackle Wayne Hunter.

That's it.

Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying the Jets are on the verge of becoming the 49ers of the '80s or anything like that. Maybe they take a step back next year. Maybe Rex Ryan's act wears thin. Who knows what happens?

I'm just saying that, as hard as it is to accept, the Jets' roster is in better shape than the Patriots.'

 

[steveluck7]

the Jets' roster is in better shape than the Patriots.'

that does not equal "The pats going down the drain."

 

[HomeBrew1901]

It wasn't his rookie season. He rode the pine for most of his rookie season, only seeing the field after the team was locked out of the playoffs. Then when last season appeared lost, he got a chance and led his team to an oh-so-impressive 8-8 record with a -81 point differential, and backed into the playoffs by virtue of a tiebreaker and the unfortunate reality that someone had to represent the miserable AFC West in the post-season. His deserved reward for that "effort"? His team signed Peyton Manning to take his job and exiled him to New York so he could back up Mark freaking Sanchez. The fact that he has yet to supplant that dud says all that needs to be said about Tebow's quarterbacking skills.

So it is an indictment on Tebow that they backed into the playoffs that upon making the playoffs led them to an overtime victory, was replaced by one of the best quarterbacks in the history of the game, and hasn't been given the chance to start because of inept Jets cap management?

Yet Felger is still the asshole for saying that Belichick should draft him? Really? That's your argument?

His team was 1-4 and the season looked to be lost so Denver started him and even though they were in a bad division they still made the playoffs. Just about any team (not every team) would replace their current QB with Manning if given the chance. It's the freaking Jets, nothing that happens with them can be blamed on Tebow because he was put in a shitty situation where the owner wanted him to sell tickets and coaching staff didn't.

I'm not saying he's a great or even mediocre QB, but I don't think it's insane for a sports radio host to think that Tebow could make a difference on someones team and might have ability to become a decent QB. Fuck, I could be misremembering this, but it's not like Felger was saying to trade up and draft him with a Top 5 pick just that if he was available in the later rounds it would be worth the pick up.

 

[HomeBrew1901]

Fuck it, I'm backing out of this conversation at this point. Arguing the semantics of what a sports radio talk show host said over the last few years is fucking stupid.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

So it is an indictment on Tebow that they backed into the playoffs that upon making the playoffs led them to an overtime victory, was replaced by one of the best quarterbacks in the history of the game, and hasn't been given the chance to start because of inept Jets cap management?

Yet Felger is still the asshole for saying that Belichick should draft him? Really? That's your argument?

His team was 1-4 and the season looked to be lost so Denver started him and even though they were in a bad division they still made the playoffs. Just about any team (not every team) would replace their current QB with Manning if given the chance. It's the freaking Jets, nothing that happens with them can be blamed on Tebow because he was put in a shitty situation where the owner wanted him to sell tickets and coaching staff didn't.

I'm not saying he's a great or even mediocre QB, but I don't think it's insane for a sports radio host to think that Tebow could make a difference on someones team and might have ability to become a decent QB. Fuck, I could be misremembering this, but it's not like Felger was saying to trade up and draft him with a Top 5 pick just that if he was available in the later rounds it would be worth the pick up.

As I recall, the Broncos schedule after Week 6 was relatively weak, and that most of the Tebow "magic" win streak was on the back of the defense keeping them close enough for last minute winning drives and getting a few lucky breaks (like Ben Roethlisberger being way less than 100% in that playoff game). Basically, an unsustainable way to continue trying to win games.

Tim Tebow is a terrible QB and having gotten a few lucky breaks last season doesn't change that. The idea that Josh McDaniels was right to draft him in the first round and Felger was right to tout him as a good pick-up for the Pats is asinine at best.

 

[PBDWake]

Jesus Christ. I don't listen to Felger much anymore because I think he's a blowhard about The Celts and Pats, often even when they win, and Mazz is a sycophant, and they both suck at talking Red Sox. But... I don't listen much anymore. I do, when I think the Pats screw up, because he's often the first person to call them out on it. But he has an opinion. And opinion plus hyperbole equals sports talk ratings. It's a pretty simple equation.

But part of the problem is that if you start apologizing for being wrong, then you start couching everything you say so you can never BE wrong. Then you wind up with Glen Ordway or Dale Arnold... guys who could be perfectly capable sidekicks, I guess, but who are vanilla and boring as shit in the host chair. You can't carry a show on "Well, if Talib keeps his head on straight, and Alfonso Dennard continues to advance, and if McCourty can continue to show the promise he showed as a safety in 2011, then the pass defense should improve. Not to an all pro level, but to a level where, with the strength of their offense and front seven, they can compete against pretty much any team in the league". That's great on a long form message board like here, where the majority of your audience is looking for accuracy. But Felger has to get and keep your attention when you turn on your car radio, and not have you wonder what else is on and check WEEI.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

But part of the problem is that if you start apologizing for being wrong, then you start couching everything you say so you can never BE wrong. Then you wind up with Glen Ordway or Dale Arnold... guys who could be perfectly capable sidekicks, I guess, but who are vanilla and boring as shit in the host chair. You can't carry a show on "Well, if Talib keeps his head on straight, and Alfonso Dennard continues to advance, and if McCourty can continue to show the promise he showed as a safety in 2011, then the pass defense should improve. Not to an all pro level, but to a level where, with the strength of their offense and front seven, they can compete against pretty much any team in the league". That's great on a long form message board like here, where the majority of your audience is looking for accuracy. But Felger has to get and keep your attention when you turn on your car radio, and not have you wonder what else is on and check WEEI.

This is spot on. However:

Still, I expected a bit more from someone with his particular background and intelligence. Specifically,

1. The J-E-T-S Jets were not low hanging fruit. Fun, yes, but unless you were an imbecile you had to twist yourself into a pretzel to conclude they were on the come while the Pats were going down the drain.

Felger never said that the Pats were circling the drain. I hate the Jets, more than I do the Yankees to be honest, but to say that the Jets didn't look like they were on their way up three years ago is revisionist crap. They had a compentent rookie quarterback who looked like he was going to improve year-to-year. They had a scary looking defense capped by a corner back (Revis) who took away the Patriots' biggest weapon (Moss). And they had a coach who wasn't overmatched in the X's and O's, wasn't about to get intimidated by BB, could handle the NY media and seemed to have his entire team play hard for him. Plus, they had a front office who wasn't afraid of spending money, bringing in players who were loud mouths, etc.

As recently as two years ago, the New York Jets were relevent and good. If that didn't scare Patriots fans, I'm not sure what would. Oh and by the way, they went to two straight AFC Championship Games.

2. Ditto the Tebow controversy. it was obviously feigned, as the Pats had (and have) more glaring needs. And Brady needing to be prodded from his contentment/slumber was a cheap shot.

By the way, none of the rants on these issue was particularly funny.

Good lord, the guy fell in love with a player and wanted the team he covered to acquire him. It was an unpopular position to take (a Felger specialty) and he ran with it because people like you get your panties twisted in a bunch when someone brings up the inevitable end of Tom Brady's career.

Go back to the essential, mission statement of this particular show -- *We're not going to ballwash, we're going to demand Boston teams raise their games.*

That's worthy, there is plenty of material, and you can have fun doing it. Just don't be stupid and unfair about stuff in your own wheelhouse.

So basically F&M can only demand Boston teams raise their games in a manner you see fit?

 

[Sparky Lyle]

Fuck it, I'm backing out of this conversation at this point. Arguing the semantics of what a sports radio talk show host said over the last few years is fucking stupid.

I fucking told you!! I stopped arguing with these folks a long time ago. You will not convince them to think of Felger and Mazz any differently. You waste your time.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Judging by this spirited exchange, Felger seems to be doing something right as a radio host.

 

[teddykgb]

So it is an indictment on Tebow that they backed into the playoffs that upon making the playoffs led them to an overtime victory, was replaced by one of the best quarterbacks in the history of the game, and hasn't been given the chance to start because of inept Jets cap management?

Yet Felger is still the asshole for saying that Belichick should draft him? Really? That's your argument?

His team was 1-4 and the season looked to be lost so Denver started him and even though they were in a bad division they still made the playoffs. Just about any team (not every team) would replace their current QB with Manning if given the chance. It's the freaking Jets, nothing that happens with them can be blamed on Tebow because he was put in a shitty situation where the owner wanted him to sell tickets and coaching staff didn't.

I'm not saying he's a great or even mediocre QB, but I don't think it's insane for a sports radio host to think that Tebow could make a difference on someones team and might have ability to become a decent QB. Fuck, I could be misremembering this, but it's not like Felger was saying to trade up and draft him with a Top 5 pick just that if he was available in the later rounds it would be worth the pick up.

Yeah, Felger wasn't necessarily advocating for taking him early, just for taking him, although if my memory serves he wasn't against using a 1st rounder either.

Part of it was definitely Felger's thing about Brady getting older and needing to groom a replacement, but the other part was that Felger thought they'd be able to use him in a bunch of different formations and sets immediately. Regardless of your opinion of Tebow (and I'm not much of a fan), I'm not sure we can conclude in any direction how successful he would have been in a hybrid QB/RB/TE role on the Patriots instead of how his current path has played out. Possibly better, possibly worse, but it seems important within this discussion to point out that Felger was never advocating for picking up Tebow and dumping Brady. He was quite consistent in saying that the guy is and was a winner and that BB would be able to find a way to use that to his advantage.

 

[soxfan121]

Ice cream headache. These two talking baseball HOF is mentally painful. Craig Biggio is not HOF worthy because he only got 200 hits once in 20 years.

 

[Sparky Lyle]

Ice cream headache. These two talking baseball HOF is mentally painful. Craig Biggio is not HOF worthy because he only got 200 hits once in 20 years.

I presume you're no longer listening.

 

[soxfan121]

Nope, I'm a masochist. But there are about 150 SoSHers I'd rather have a HOF vote than Mazz.

 

[scottyno]

Nope, I'm a masochist. But there are about 150 SoSHers I'd rather have a HOF vote than Mazz.

what, you don't want a guy who openly admits that he's completely ignoring the numbers to decide who the best players of a generation were?

and hes not voting for bagwell because he might have been a steroid guy

 

[SoxScout]

Mazz has not covered himself in glory the last two days, only one caller called him out of his HOF bullshit and then Felger piled on him.

 

[E5 Yaz]

Craig Biggio is not HOF worthy because he only got 200 hits once in 20 years.

Which is 1 more than Yaz had in 23 years.

 

[pedro1918]

Ted Williams' career high for hits in a season?

194.

 

[fineyoungarm]

Ted Williams' career high for hits in a season?

194.

So Pesky with three 200+ hit seasons (1 before and 2 after his three years of service during WW II) was robbed, when it came to the HOF. (Just think of the tape measure jobs he would have hit.)

 

[soxfan121]

Mazz's explanation of only voting for the best all-around players (Griffey, Bonds, Clemens) was pre-emptively contradicted by his vote for Edgar Martinez.

So, for those of you scoring at home - Griffey, Bonds, Arod, Clemens, Pedro, Maddux, Manny - the BEST of the BEST...and Edgar Martinez. But not Bagwell, Piazza or Biggio.