Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time

[Dalton Jones]

Well Moss getting waived is pretty big news.

I understand that. But you realize, right, that he's been saying the same things about Moss for four weeks? If not longer. It gets old. Really. Felger's a smart guy. I'd like to get his take on the rest of the game yesterday, or on the B's. Four hours of this is simply impossible for me to take.

 

[Dalton Jones]

Normally I'd agree with you, but Moss being waived means he almost has to talk about him.

They were breaking down the game well before the news hit, pointing out they scored a TD every drive after Minny scored, and that Woodhead's 3rd down play in the 4th quarter was one of the biggest plays in the game...

But this Moss story is big. I hate his rants sometimes, and even I'm listening.

Maybe I tuned in at the wrong time.

 

[Sparky Lyle]

A few years ago when I would listen to EEI, Ordway and his blow hard buddy, Smerlas would always say the same thing after the Pats traded Branch. Said, they don't need a deep threat (not that Branch really was) and the "stretching the field" argument is way overblown. Of course as soon as they traded for Moss, "taking the top off the defense" was the most important thing in football. The bottom line is they just agreed with whatever Belichick did, regardless of whether they were contradicting themselves or not. Say what you want about Felger, he is consistent and sticks by what he says.

Do you remember this line, "Fred, give the guy a chance."?

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

Do you remember this line, "Fred, give the guy a chance."?

Haha. I was thinking about that today too. As soon as Belichick uttered that line, Smerlas was ready to start a Randy fan club after repeatedly ripping him for being a slouch. That whole show is such a bunch of frauds when it comes to the Pats.

 

[Darnell's Son]

I posted something similar in the Big Show thread, but I think this pertains to both threads and their state of competition:
The two shows have different points of view, but they're kind of on the same page, Felger is just a bit further down the page. The difference is Felger is focusing on the results when it comes to the points scored. You cannot deny that Favrah did better because he passed underneath. The only difference between the two stations is that TBS was focusing on Favrah's line, while TSH was focusing on the score. Passing underneath plays to the bend but don't break defense that Belichick loves. Felgey nailed it when he said that stretching the field doesn't really work and that aspect of Moss' game is overrated. It really comes down to the fact that TBS is still playing to the lowest common denominator while TSH is trying to capture everyone else. I only listen to TBS on Monday because of the Belichick interview, and I really think if TSH could ever steal "Patriots' Monday" from WEEI, then WEEI would be in serious trouble.

 

[dcmissle]

Felgey nailed it when he said that stretching the field doesn't really work and that aspect of Moss' game is overrated. [/b]It really comes down to the fact that TBS is still playing to the lowest common denominator while TSH is trying to capture everyone else. I only listen to TBS on Monday because of the Belichick interview, and I really think if TSH could ever steal "Patriots' Monday" from WEEI, then WEEI would be in serious trouble.

So we're into full blown triumphalism, on both stations evidently, with Pittsburgh and indy looming on the schedule? A bit premature, but I guess that's what happens when the power rankings have you first.

Let's slow down.

First, the Vikings, via a Jason Cole article, have a rather different view of the situation:

When he told [the players] that he was cutting Randy, it was like a double-shot of pure caffeine," a team source said. "It was one of those moments where you're just jolted up, like, 'Whoa, what just happened? Did he really just say that?' "Really, I thought he was joking, then I realized it was Chilly and he doesn't joke. Well, he jokes, but it's not funny."

Said another team source: "I just thought, 'You're kidding, right?' This is nuts. We're just getting to the point where he's getting on page with [quarterback] Brett [Favre] and the offense is starting to really move the ball and then we do this."

When it was mentioned that Moss' production hasn't been that good since being acquired four games ago in a trade from New England – Moss had 13 catches for 174 yards and two touchdowns, and only one catch for eight yards against the Patriots on Sunday – both sources scoffed.

"Look at the tape. Look at the coverages," one of the sources said. "Look at what he does for everybody else. Percy [Harvin] is running free all over the field right now. The running game is moving along. I don't even care about the fact that he's smarter than everybody on the coaching staff. He's a game-changer.

"Make it work."

It's always amusing when armchair QBs like Felgey have it so confidently figured out when the people who are actually playing and coaching the flipping games have a polar opposite view.

Second, lets see how this plays out for us over the second half. Can Branch regain full health and remain healthy? What happens when the two kid TEs and Tate, in their first NFL seasons, hit "the wall" in the next month or so. Will Welker be "running free all over the field"? I doubt it. Will "law firm" and Co. be running it down the Steelers' or Colts' throats? I doubt that too.

The jury is still out, and I will not be shocked if by season's end we're talking about the offense being the relative weakness on this team rather than the defense.

Very good cases can be made that BB was right to trade Moss and Childress was compelled to cut him. Moss remains very high maintenance and is not the player he was. He merely commands double teams rather than destroying them as in the past. But any time one offensive player can take out two defensive players, that's a good thing. And until defenses around the League begin altering their coverages, it's advantage offense.

On balance, I'm pleased the Pats turned the page and moved on. But you have to be open to the other side of this.

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

The guys are way off today imo. They keep discussing why Moss might end up back in NE. Would they want him back? Is it best for him? Will he be the loyal soldier this time? But they're barely touching on the fact that he has to clear waivers first...and that ain't gonna happen. I understand that "Moss Back to NE" talk is better radio for the listening audience but there's almost zero chance it's even a possibility.

 

[Gambler7]

I don't get why they just played that Mankins/Kraft bit again. It's like the 3rd time I've heard it and it's just as bad every time. Seriously, it's not funny. For bits like that to work you should:

a). make sure the voices sound somewhat like who you are mocking
b). make sure it's at least somewhat humorous

It does neither.

 

[Sparky Lyle]

The guys are way off today imo. They keep discussing why Moss might end up back in NE. Would they want him back? Is it best for him? Will he be the loyal soldier this time? But they're barely touching on the fact that he has to clear waivers first...and that ain't gonna happen. I understand that "Moss Back to NE" talk is better radio for the listening audience but there's almost zero chance it's even a possibility.

I was thinking the same thing, totally agree.



I also agree with Gambler, by the way.


Not a good day for them today, so far.

 

[Phenom]

Today is a day where Felger needs a stronger co-host. He sometimes needs another person to push a topic, to say "we've beaten that topic to death, so let's talk about this for a bit."

Mazz isn't willing to do that, and that's understandable, because the show works with Felger in-charge and him entrenched in the co-pilot's seat.

But this show would be even stronger if Felger had an "equal" partner. I'm not sure who that guy would be, though.

(Because today was/is a bad show. I understand that Moss is going to be a topic, but they've talked about nothing else. Not one mention of the World Series, and only a short mention of Mankins. This is especially glaring because unlike the morning and midday shows, the afternoon guys have already had a chance to talk Moss. Felger should've brought something else to the table today).

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I can't take another hour of Moss talk. Felger is becoming insufferable with this shit.

 

[dcmissle]

Yes, but we all have weaknesses and this is Felgie's catnip, so I would not be shocked if Moss has legs through today.

At the very least, we're going to get a riff around 4:30 because Moss almost certainly will be claimed. So the talking points are being written now -- e.g.,

1. The Raiders claim him (Mort insists this is a genuine possibility), Al Davis' batshit insanity reveals itself again.

2. The Rams' claim him -- the team is tempting the destruction of its brilliant young QB.

 

[dcmissle]

Perillo is eating Felgie alive on whether the offense is better since Moss has left.

 

[Dim13]

I almost drove off the road when Perillo opined that Moss may get frustrated with Vince Young overthrowing him by 30 yards: "I used to catch passes from Tom Brady and Brett Favre and now I have Uncle Rico throwing it to me."

Great Napoleon Dynamite reference.

 

[AquaNarc]

Perillo is eating Felgie alive on whether the offense is better since Moss has left.

Replace Tony with Perillo. That was tremendous. Said everything I wish someone had said to Felger.

 

[TFP]

delete

delete

delete

Just wanted to save these for posterity.

 

[Sparky Lyle]

Just wanted to save these for posterity.

What did he say?

 

[TFP]

He said delete. He thought it was the Bruins gamethread.

 

[Dummy Hoy]

Me no read good.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

He said delete. He thought it was the Bruins gamethread.

AND THOMAS DOES THE CHINESE SPLITS

 

[Rocco Graziosa]

I can't take another hour of Moss talk. Felger is becoming insufferable with this shit.

No one hates Moss more than me. No one supports Felger in his blasting of Moss more than me. But I totally agree with you John. Its been too much. So you were right Felger. Awesome. Gloat for MAYBE a day. After that, for the love of GOD please move on. Its times like this that you realize how detrimental it is to this show having a spineless cohost like Mazz is. He should have either taken an opposing view or navigated the show to a new topic. I'm shocked the producers of the show didn't make this happen.

 

[Sparky Lyle]

No one hates Moss more than me. No one supports Felger in his blasting of Moss more than me. But I totally agree with you John. Its been too much. So you were right Felger. Awesome. Gloat for MAYBE a day. After that, for the love of GOD please move on. Its times like this that you realize how detrimental it is to this show having a spineless cohost like Mazz is. He should have either taken an opposing view or navigated the show to a new topic. I'm shocked the producers of the show didn't make this happen.

I agree.

 

[Gambler7]

Replace Tony with Perillo. That was tremendous. Said everything I wish someone had said to Felger.

This is a great idea. I caught the first half of the Perillo interview and it's amazing what a difference it makes when you have someone with a spine and different point of view, instead of just chuckling and agreeing with everything Felger says. Perillo would be awesome during the football season at least.

 

[Huntington Avenue Grounds]

This is a great idea. I caught the first half of the Perillo interview and it's amazing what a difference it makes when you have someone with a spine and different point of view, instead of just chuckling and agreeing with everything Felger says. Perillo would be awesome during the football season at least.

I agree. He's got opinions, knows football well and cares enough about his job to keep up with the other sports as well, but doesn't come off a douchey or a yammering dickhead (which makes employment at WEEI impossible). Sign him up!

 

[TFP]

Wait, so according to Felger, the fact that the Sox were not willing to sign Ortiz to a long-term deal is indicative that they want to sell the team without any long term contracts on the books?

This show really can't discuss baseball with any sort of intelligence, and it's getting worse.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

I didn't hear this but they were ripping on Garnett pretty good today because he's "a fake tough guy". And of course, Massarotti was right there with him.

I hate when there's no real sports on and sports reporters feel the need to get sanctimonious.

 

[PBDWake]

Did... did he really say that? My brain hurts just thinking about the logic. So many reasons that's wrong. Not the least of which is that signing a player in his mid-30s, who could very well be older than that, with consistently deteriorating health and skills to an expensive long term deal is a silly decision in any situation (didn't he make fun of the Celtics for their old man signings the last few years?), and not the greatest of which is the fact that selling the team in this economy is giving away money.

 

[McSweeny]

They were terrible today. I listened to about 15 minutes of the both of them ripping on Garnett for being a wannabe tough guy before I turned it off. I flipped it back on a while later and I hear Felger going on about how the Red Sox are cheap because they picked up Ortiz's option. He also insinuated they were planning to sell the team due to their extreme aversion to long term contracts. Just absolutely insane radio today.

 

[Blacken]

And yet people jump on me when I call Felger a fucking meathead. I'm sorry, but he's dumb. Either because he thinks it's true or because he thinks it's good radio. Dumb.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

They were terrible today. I listened to about 15 minutes of the both of them ripping on Garnett for being a wannabe tough guy before I turned it off.

You know what bugged me about this? All last winter Felger rips Mike Cameron, says that he sucks, he's always hurt, was terrible for the Brewers and was a waste of money. (I have to admit that he was right about a few of those things). Cameron comes on the show and what does Felger do, he turtles and asks him about the weather in Milwaukee. And less than a year later he has the balls to say that Garnett is a fake tough guy. Really. Really?

I wish that I gave a shit enough to call him about that.

 

[TFP]

You should text it to him.

 

[Sparky Lyle]

And yet people jump on me when I call Felger a fucking meathead. I'm sorry, but he's dumb. Either because he thinks it's true or because he thinks it's good radio. Dumb.

They've been bad the past few days actually. And much as I like him, Felger that is, I'm so sick of the Moss bullshit. Talk about beating a dead horse. I even checked out 'EEI to see what was up there. Smerlas and Merloni. I'm in my office now so I'm getting a break for a bit.

 

[PBDWake]

And yet people jump on me when I call Felger a fucking meathead. I'm sorry, but he's dumb. Either because he thinks it's true or because he thinks it's good radio. Dumb.

A) They should all be banned from discussing baseball altogether. They have zero idea what they're talking about, and they're idiots.

B) Tony should also be banned from discussing Hockey, Basketball, Football, Lacrosse, Track, Soccer, Cricket, anything with an X in it, Curling, Volleyball (Court or Beach), MMA, and generally all things not falling under the "Naughty Masarotti" banner.

C) Felger seems to hate any and all players who don't just "shut up and play ball", and then frequently impresses on them negative feedback. I have a hard time believing that someone who took 12 stitches to the head and came back to lead his team to a comeback win in the 4th is a "fake tough guy".

 

[fairlee76]

C) Felger seems to hate any and all players who don't just "shut up and play ball", and then frequently impresses on them negative feedback. I have a hard time believing that someone who took 12 stitches to the head and came back to lead his team to a comeback win in the 4th is a "fake tough guy".

Felger makes no bones about hating the NBA. They were brutal to listen to during last year's playoff run, focused solely on minor negatives rather than appreciating the amazing run the Celtics were on. Just wish they either a) talked about basketball less or b) did a better job of bringing basketball experts on as guest hosts. Hell, why not determine hosts depending on the season? Makes no sense to have Felger on the radio once football season ends.

 

[AquaNarc]

Their extreme aversion to "long-term" deals? Beckett and Lackey say hello. And since we're just talking length, so do Lester, Pedroia, and Youkilis. Let me guess, when he said the stuff about them selling the team, Mazz's response was, "Listen, I think it's a valid question to raise."

 

[AquaNarc]

You know what bugged me about this? All last winter Felger rips Mike Cameron, says that he sucks, he's always hurt, was terrible for the Brewers and was a waste of money. (I have to admit that he was right about a few of those things). Cameron comes on the show and what does Felger do, he turtles and asks him about the weather in Milwaukee. And less than a year later he has the balls to say that Garnett is a fake tough guy. Really. Really?

I wish that I gave a shit enough to call him about that.

See this doesn't bother me at all. I mean first of all I generally ignore player interviews, but while Felger's opinion about Cameron enrages me, I really don't care about softball questions. What's he supposed to ask, "Hey Mike, why aren't you a better player? Don't you think the Red Sox overpaid you?" Come on, those are questions for Theo, and I ABSOLUTELY think Felger pussies out when he interviews Theo, and that I do have a major problem with. And it's not like Felger made any personal attacks on Cameron, that would be a different story.

I mean if anything, they could be criticized for interviewing him period. I still can't get over the "they're selling the team!" thing, I really hope it wasn't as bad as it sounds. I don't get to listen much anymore but I'm pretty close to being done with this show.

 

[Phenom]

See this doesn't bother me at all. I mean first of all I generally ignore player interviews, but while Felger's opinion about Cameron enrages me, I really don't care about softball questions. What's he supposed to ask, "Hey Mike, why aren't you a better player? Don't you think the Red Sox overpaid you?" Come on, those are questions for Theo, and I ABSOLUTELY think Felger pussies out when he interviews Theo, and that I do have a major problem with. And it's not like Felger made any personal attacks on Cameron, that would be a different story.

I mean if anything, they could be criticized for interviewing him period. I still can't get over the "they're selling the team!" thing, I really hope it wasn't as bad as it sounds. I don't get to listen much anymore but I'm pretty close to being done with this show.

If I recall correctly, Felger (or maybe it was Mazz) made a passing comment by saying "if there's one complaint I have about this ownership group, it's that they have an aversion to long-term deals. It would make sense if they were going to sell the team soon..." I don't think the comment was as egregious as people are making it out to be, but it was still pretty bad.

And yeah, the show has been weak the past couple of days. AGAIN they were talking about Zdeno Charra's history in game 7's. How in any way is that a relevant topic to what's going on today?

Felger is an entertaining personality, and can definitely carry a show. But he needs a stronger presence in there to reign him in. Tony is clearly not that guy and the show now suffers because of it.

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

Glad to see I'm not in the minority. Today was horrible. Early on I listened for about ten minutes as they were ripping KG at the start of the show. It got annoying real fast because Tony kept repeating everything that Felger previously stated. He must say, "You're right Mike" 100 times a day. And part of Felger's argument made no sense whatsoever. Felger began the show talking about how great the Adrian Wojnarowski article was for condemning KG...and this is after spending much of yesterday saying he didn't think the cancer comment was a big deal or really offensive. Well that article was primarily written in response to the Garnett's comments the other night. Felger can't have it both ways - I love Wojo's stuff too but you can't say it was a great piece ripping Garnett one day if just the day before you were clamoring about how the media backlash to KG is overblown.

Then I turned it back on only to hear a caller bring up "bridge years" which led to Tony yelling, "It's gonna be worse in 2011! I told you that already! Didn't I Mike? Didn't I say it's just gonna be worse this year...you heard me say that right...right? Get ready for it." He's like a 7th grade girl that just got a hold of some gossip.

The perfect show would be "Felger and ________". It would never happen but having Felger talk football with guys like Curran and/or Perillo, basketball with Russillo, hockey with DuPont and/or Haggerty and baseball with someone like McAdam would be ideal. Obviously many of these guys work with EEI or ESPN so it's not possible, but my point is they need KNOWLEDGEABLE commentators who can actually debate Felger in their specific sports. Felger's general grasp on sports is pretty decent and he gives the listener plenty of enthusiasm and entertainment. It's just that he gets away with too much because he doesn't have someone to call him out on certain facts or arguments that are too over the top at times. It's not his fault that he needs a competent adversary and instead is paired with Tony, who offers nothing at this point. If Felger said the Bruins should trade for a 3rd goalie Mazz would find a way to agree with him.

Edit - Just wanted to point out that I was typing while you posted Phenom. I didn't need to write the last part, you said it perfectly.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

See this doesn't bother me at all. I mean first of all I generally ignore player interviews, but while Felger's opinion about Cameron enrages me, I really don't care about softball questions. What's he supposed to ask, "Hey Mike, why aren't you a better player? Don't you think the Red Sox overpaid you?" Come on, those are questions for Theo, and I ABSOLUTELY think Felger pussies out when he interviews Theo, and that I do have a major problem with. And it's not like Felger made any personal attacks on Cameron, that would be a different story.

I don't really expect him to do a Howard-Stern-style interview either. It just struck as a tad hypocritical that Felger is calling someone out for being fake tough, when he does the exact same thing. Especially considering that he had to wait until Wojo brought up the fact that KG is a jerk. All of a sudden someone paves the way and Felger jumps on the bandwagon? That's weak sauce and Felger is better than that.

 

[Blacken]

That's weak sauce and Felger is better than that.

I think at this point the only answer to this is "no, he's not."

 

[Harry Hooper]

Their extreme aversion to "long-term" deals? Beckett and Lackey say hello. And since we're just talking length, so do Lester, Pedroia, and Youkilis.

So true, and it's really wacky because someone like Felger could actually argue {based on Beltre's 2010 season/contract and even the Giants winning the WS} that the Sox should be exploiting more short-term deals and avoiding long-term contracts.

 

[Phenom]

Today is just a ridiculous show (and not in a good way).

What is up with all of this Red Sox hatred? Felger's talking point is that "John Henry has lost his way." Really? Come on now...that's troll radio.

 

[PBDWake]

This is already shaping up to be one of "those shows".

I got into my car and hear this:

"John Henry comes off as a complete douche in this article.

Question: How was John Henry Co. able to purchase this team in this economic environment? Many people are losing money left and right.

Answer: Not John Henry Co. We were up over 20%.

Douche. DB.

(Obligatory chiming in of "You're absolutely right, Mike")"

He then harps on him for using computers and formulas to make money, then in response to a question about how he was led to short the dollar, when he says that the readers wouldn't understand, Felgy unloads about what a pompous DB he is. While the response was short, I have no doubt he meant about the process they used to arrive at their conclusions, because if it was as simple as shorting the dollar, a whole lot more people would be in a lot better shape.

Then they get back to... you got it... Texiera. Tony says you don't need stars with personality, because Tex is a star without it, but he's a STAR. Ignoring the fact that, productionwise, Youkilis has outproduced Tex since Tex became a Yankee, and that he was comprable before that (although Tex's 2007 was superb, and better than anything Youk's ever put up).

Follow that up with Maz noting the bit where Henry said that "giving long term contracts to players over the age of 30 is silly", but... "Sometimes you have to do it to be a champion", and Maz completely disregarding the back half of that sentence, stating they're not willing to sign anyone over 30.

Time to catch up on my podcasts!

 

[BannedbyNYYFans.com]

Horrible show considering how lazy it is. "The owners have lost their passion for the Red Sox". "The $170 Million payroll is misleading". Uggghh.

I"m on hold right now. I'm starting to be "one of those" repeat callers who I despise...I need a life.

 

[Gambler7]

Honestly, I can't believe they started the show all about the interview with Henry and Werner. I read it this morning and didn't think twice about anything in it, it all pretty much was common sense and made sense. Yet they found a way to twist every answer into something it completely wasn't. Along with completely ignoring a $175 million dollar payroll, by far the second highest in the league. Really? What have these guys done to prove they don't care about winning or improving the team or park? Because they hire a 5 year old to do a speech in the opening day ceremonies that means they don't care about winning on the field? Things were TEN times worse when Steinberg was here with all the ceremonies he put together and they won at the same time as him doing that. What does one have to do with the other?

 

[PBDWake]

Well, there's the implication that the owners just don't really care. How many other teams would LOVE the Red Sox Ownership/GM combo? Ask around the league. I feel like at least 25 would take it in a heartbeart.

 

[John Marzano Olympic Hero]

Felger's bored. And all of his usual suspects are gone.

The NHL and NBA have already started, the NFL is in its doldrums, the World Series is over and they don't give a crap about the NCAA.
Felger tried to shit on Charra, no one really cares.
Felger tried to shit on Garnett, it really has no legs (he said that he wished Garnett never won a championship, so he can rag on him about that). He knows he has nothing.
Randy Moss is gone, the Patriots are doing exactly what he wants. And they're 6-1. Hard to be negative about that.

So now he's going to the Sox. He and Tony make up stuff, blow things out of proportion for four hours, call it a show and pray that something insane happens tonight, tomorrow or Sunday.

He's had an absolutely terrible week. Massarotti is coasting, just like he does at the Globe. It's amazing how quickly he went from a hungry reporter with interesting and well-thought out takes to a complete hack saying the same thing over and over and over again, facts be damned.

 

[Razor Shines]

I got into my car and hear this:

"John Henry comes off as a complete douche in this article.

Question: How was John Henry Co. able to purchase this team in this economic environment? Many people are losing money left and right.

Answer: Not John Henry Co. We were up over 20%.

Douche. DB.

Felger is also arguing that Henry shouldn't be talking about his rate of return unless he is willing to bid top dollar on Carl Crawford, etc.

After listening to him for a while, I've come to the conclusion that there are two possibilities:

1) Mike Felger doesn't know shit about baseball or the business world, and seriously needs to work on his critical thinking skills, or...
2) He doesn't actually believe what he says, and is just trying to get some like-minded knuckleheads fired up.

 

[PedroSpecialK]

Mike Felger went to HF Boards to improve his hockey acumen. That tells you just about all you need to know about his intelligence.

 

[TFP]

Mike Felger went to HF Boards to improve his hockey acumen. That tells you just about all you need to know about his intelligence.

Need to get him to read (but not contribute to) RMPS, ASAP.

Edit: What info did he go to HF for, PSK?