Everybody Hates Draymond

lars10

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It looks like Draymond’s act has got to the point he’s lost the media now. The only media member I saw somewhat stick up for him was Tim Kawakami, who somehow came to the conclusion that Nurkic flopped?
The TNT studio guys (Grant Hill, Jamal Crawford and Vince Carter) all thought he would be suspended. Hill guessed for more than 5 games. Richard Jefferson did a quick video clip where he called current Draymond “bad for the game”

I have no idea how you could watch that clip and stick up for him. Or how you could come to the conclusion that he didn’t mean to hit him (as Draymond claims). Its a ridiculous play and an embarrassment
Just watched that clip.. Draymond tries to make it look like he did it by accident, but there's zero reason for his arm to go up that way given what's happening in the play.. Someone should ask Draymond.. so if it's an accident.. what were you trying to do? Why were you swinging your arm near his head? What basketball move were you trying for? Because there's no natural movement there.. would be interesting to have him say what he was trying to do while the replay plays over and over.
 

jayhoz

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Just watched that clip.. Draymond tries to make it look like he did it by accident, but there's zero reason for his arm to go up that way given what's happening in the play.. Someone should ask Draymond.. so if it's an accident.. what were you trying to do? Why were you swinging your arm near his head? What basketball move were you trying for? Because there's no natural movement there.. would be interesting to have him say what he was trying to do while the replay plays over and over.
He was just flailing his arms to sell the foul to the ref. Nothing to see here. /s

View: https://twitter.com/NBAonTNT/status/1734837851466997962?t=NbwHInMxQPnmuPMtFppeTw&s=19
 

Auger34

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Just watched that clip.. Draymond tries to make it look like he did it by accident, but there's zero reason for his arm to go up that way given what's happening in the play.. Someone should ask Draymond.. so if it's an accident.. what were you trying to do? Why were you swinging your arm near his head? What basketball move were you trying for? Because there's no natural movement there.. would be interesting to have him say what he was trying to do while the replay plays over and over.
As @jayhoz posted his explanation was selling the foul.

None of what he says makes any sense logically. He must think people are really fucking stupid....

The reason he thought he was being fouled was that Nurkic was too close to him and holding him/tugging on his jersey. If you dont back away, spin around and flail your arm upwards, what the fuck do you think will happen?

This is kind of tinfoil hat but my guess is that what @Tony C has posted is true and somewhat well known at the league office. That combined with the lack of remorse and continued instances kind of forced the NBA's hand to do something like this (which I imagine will be anger management classes essentially).

It's truly amazing that Draymond has sunk so low that he's lost his media backing...I mean, the guy was an absolute disaster last year (punching Poole, Sabonis Stomp, continually charging the refs) and he STILL got the benefit of the doubt. To piss that away with more ridiculous instances is incredible
 

lars10

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As @jayhoz posted his explanation was selling the foul.

None of what he says makes any sense logically. He must think people are really fucking stupid....

The reason he thought he was being fouled was that Nurkic was too close to him and holding him/tugging on his jersey. If you dont back away, spin around and flail your arm upwards, what the fuck do you think will happen?

This is kind of tinfoil hat but my guess is that what @Tony C has posted is true and somewhat well known at the league office. That combined with the lack of remorse and continued instances kind of forced the NBA's hand to do something like this (which I imagine will be anger management classes essentially).

It's truly amazing that Draymond has sunk so low that he's lost his media backing...I mean, the guy was an absolute disaster last year (punching Poole, Sabonis Stomp, continually charging the refs) and he STILL got the benefit of the doubt. To piss that away with more ridiculous instances is incredible
I don’t think it’s shocking that he hasn’t changed.. his actions haven’t really gotten him in trouble. For the Poole punch.. didn’t the team suspend him “indefinitely” and he didn’t even miss a game?

He’s an object lesson in what happens when someone is allowed to get away with increasingly bad behavior.

That split screen with Jokic and him is telling.. it would be interesting to see if you could find a clip from every game and just have them all running at the same time with the date underneath.
 

saintnick912

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I posted somewhere after the Celtics-GSW Finals that I didn't see Draymond as even a MLE-worthy player without his GSW-adjacent double standard. On any other team he'd be out of the league. It seems like it's caught up to him.
 

slamminsammya

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I posted somewhere after the Celtics-GSW Finals that I didn't see Draymond as even a MLE-worthy player without his GSW-adjacent double standard. On any other team he'd be out of the league. It seems like it's caught up to him.
this is nuts. he's been one of the best defenders in the league for over a decade.
 

slamminsammya

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Figured there's enough here for it's own topic. the guy clearly has problems. will he see the court again this year? I hope not, I think yes. I just hope he doesn't injure anyone with his bullshit before he retires.
 

TomTerrific

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I don’t know, but the compilation videos of Draymond’s mayhem make it clear that his MO is to appear out of control while deliberately doing something specific with sufficient control to engender a high likelihood of hurting his target.

The only question is whether it’s a spontaneous decision on his part or a longer-term (ie > 10 sec) plan. Which I think is kind of academic. He needs and deserves significant time off, and counseling as well,
though I‘m skeptical of it having any impact on him until he has a true life crisis, which this probably doesn’t qualify as.
 

Kliq

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He will definitely play again this year; my guess is he will be back before the All-Star Break.

I don't think he's a complex entity. I think he is a very emotional player, that can't control himself during games and that leads to a lot of dirty/violent acts. Playing with that emotion has been extremely rewarding for him, he's achieved incredible fame and wealth, and his team and coaches have consistently backed him for playing with that level of emotion, even if it occasionally boils over and hurts the team. There has never been a great incentive for him to tone it down--and as a player that is relatively limited athletically, he likely understands he needs to have that edge to remain effective.

Hopefully a lengthy suspension and knowing that the next incident would lead to a longer one will provide that incentive for him to change--but I tend to doubt it.
 

luckiestman

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I care a lot less about his problems than the problems he causes. Counseling, yeah right, sure. Good luck.
 

moondog80

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Draymond is the same guy he's always been. The same alpha-dog intensity that turned him from a 2nd round pick to a HOFer with 4 rings who will retire with over $250 million in career earnings manifests itself in bad ways too, and it's showing more as the skill of both him and his teammates fades. It's not a switch he can just turn on and off.
 

Sille Skrub

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Figured there's enough here for it's own topic. the guy clearly has problems. will he see the court again this year? I hope not, I think yes. I just hope he doesn't injure anyone with his bullshit before he retires.
Thank you for starting a new thread!!!

I will move the Draymond posts in here.
 

Auger34

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I just can't agree that it's the same thing it's always been. This year has been really bad for him.

His normal incidents are calculated and there's always some sort of excuse he can point to that some people will believe. This year, he straight up choked a guy for basically no reason and then performed a spinning back fist onto a player for.....being in his general vicinity?

My guess is that deep down he knows that he's a diminished player from what he was and it's causing him to act out even more.
 

slamminsammya

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I just can't agree that it's the same thing it's always been. This year has been really bad for him.

His normal incidents are calculated and there's always some sort of excuse he can point to that some people will believe. This year, he straight up choked a guy for basically no reason and then performed a spinning back fist onto a player for.....being in his general vicinity?

My guess is that deep down he knows that he's a diminished player from what he was and it's causing him to act out even more.
don't forget the suplex that wasn't even called a foul
 

joe dokes

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I mean there is making shit up to fit their agenda and then there is this.....

Golden State was inbounding the ball when this play occurred.
Ok. So he got beat two plays earlier. Or he couldnt get good position. He's no longer good enough and hes compensating like a guy wearing a big hat to a whorehouse. This has been going on on sports since old players began to suck.
Saying he needs counseling is an excuse and probably insulting to people who actually do need counseling.
 

Auger34

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Ok. So he got beat two plays earlier. Or he couldnt get good position. He's no longer good enough and hes compensating like a guy wearing a big hat to a whorehouse. This has been going on on sports since old players began to suck.
I guess I really need to go get a new hat...
 

gammoseditor

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I just can't agree that it's the same thing it's always been. This year has been really bad for him.

His normal incidents are calculated and there's always some sort of excuse he can point to that some people will believe. This year, he straight up choked a guy for basically no reason and then performed a spinning back fist onto a player for.....being in his general vicinity?

My guess is that deep down he knows that he's a diminished player from what he was and it's causing him to act out even more.
Agreed. He’s had four high profile incidents in 15 months.

The Jordan Poole punch
Stomping on Sabonis
Choking Gobert
Punching Nurkic
 

Tony C

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Agreed. He’s had four high profile incidents in 15 months.

The Jordan Poole punch
Stomping on Sabonis
Choking Gobert
Punching Nurkic
To add one that I thought was less dramatic, wasn't seen as suspension worthy, but in some ways even more egregious: his subtle push/shove of Donovan Mitchell from behind the play that sent Mitchell sprawling. Zero basketball reason to do it; clearly pre-meditated in 'hey, i can get away with this here' way; and more dangerous than a punch in that it took advantage of Mitchell's momentum to send him flying.
 

Kliq

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To add one that I thought was less dramatic, wasn't seen as suspension worthy, but in some ways even more egregious: his subtle push/shove of Donovan Mitchell from behind the play that sent Mitchell sprawling. Zero basketball reason to do it; clearly pre-meditated in 'hey, i can get away with this here' way; and more dangerous than a punch in that it took advantage of Mitchell's momentum to send him flying.
Yeah, that to me was a super dirty play, on par with anything else he has done. Everyone that has ever played basketball understands how dangerous a shove in the back while running at full speed can be, and you throw in this is an elite athlete, who is headed towards a crowded section of people/media under the basket--Mitchell is very lucky he wasn't injured, as were fans sitting courtside.
 

jablo1312

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He's acting like a psycho for sure, and has been for a while, but he's one of the best defensive players of his era and still well above average on that end. i hate the warriors w/ everything inside of me but cant let emotions get in the way of facts here.
 

PedroKsBambino

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He's acting like a psycho for sure, and has been for a while, but he's one of the best defensive players of his era and still well above average on that end. i hate the warriors w/ everything inside of me but cant let emotions get in the way of facts here.
I agree with that - though rest of his game has slid and even defensively, he can't defend quickness anymore. The other point to be made: he's been thrown out of or suspended for a big chunk of games this year, too. You can't impact games you aren't in.
 

Auger34

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I think it's also worth mentioning here that what Poole supposedly said to Draymond ("you're an awfully expensive backpack for 30") is good trash talk but really not that offensive at all and certainly not worth getting fucking decked over.

If you believe Gilbert Arenas's version of the story, Poole didn't even say that to Draymond that practice, it was from the day before.

It's pretty unconscionable he wasn't suspended after that....and just hilariously bad that Draymond did a press tour this off-season basically scapegoating Jordan Poole for the chemistry being bad last season.

IMO, this is now the second sentence when talking about his career. Revolutionary defender, 4 time NBA champion. Dirty player who can't control his emotions and is prone to ejection and suspension. Generally people's least favorite player
 

joe dokes

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I think it's also worth mentioning here that what Poole supposedly said to Draymond ("you're an awfully expensive backpack for 30") is good trash talk but really not that offensive at all and certainly not worth getting fucking decked over.
Draymond knew he was right.
 

Tony C

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I care a lot less about his problems than the problems he causes. Counseling, yeah right, sure. Good luck.
I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I'm all for restorative justice, not being retributive and giving a guy a chance to get himself right. And, clearly, the core issue here is Draymond has some sort of unresolved mental issue. On the flip side, well, I just saw a clip from Joe Dumars and that seemed to be his position, too. A lot of... "this isn't about punishment, it's about getting Dray right" sort of language. In principle, I kind of agree, but that's basically been the position of the NBA throughout: one set of rules for 99% of the players, and Dray gets to slide. It isn't that I think they should be punitive just to be punitive, but the double standards are egregious and one has to think that's been part of enabling Green to think his shit doesn't stink and he can do whatever he wants to do. That brings me back to having an issue with Dumars being the primary arbiter of discipline. Woj talks about how Green "grew up in Dumars house" (not a precise quote, but words to that effect referring to Green's college years..so I don't think it's quite growing up) and just read this on ESPN:
NBA OPERATIONS CHIEF
Joe Dumars has been one of the main arbiters of Green's incidents the past few years. The former Detroit Pistons great has also known Green for most of his adult life.
"Joe D. is also someone that I still call for advice," Green said. "In life things, basketball things, I will always call him for advice because he's been a father figure in my life since I was 16 years old.
"That's someone in my life that'll tell me straight up what he thinks. This was bulls---. That was bulls---. This thing you did well. That thing you didn't do well."
Dumars was pretty clear in his message to Green on Wednesday: These incidents need to stop.
I mean...his "father figure" since he was 16 has been in charge of his discipline? How is that not a clear conflict of interest? How is that not part of the story of how Green has skated time and time again?
I mean, I"m glad Dumars told him on Wednesday that the incidents need to stop. But how about someone tell Dumars and the NBA that a father figure should not be in charge of doling out discipline to his quasi-son? Yes Green clearly needs help and counseling and whatever. But part of that help is not treating him like he's the prodigal son who has a different set of rules. I still have the suspicion -- all the more after viewing Dumars -- that this indefinite suspension won't be that different than the Warriors having him take a vacation for clocking Poole. Yes, he needs help. But the NBA also needs to enforce rules and do so equitably, rather than having one set of rules for some players and a different set of rules for Green.

tl;dr: the best restorative justice in this case would be giving Green a good, long, definitive suspension with clear rules that when he comes back neither haranguing refs nor punching, kicking, pushing, stomping, punch-slapping other players will be permitted.

Draymond is the same guy he's always been. The same alpha-dog intensity that turned him from a 2nd round pick to a HOFer with 4 rings who will retire with over $250 million in career earnings manifests itself in bad ways too, and it's showing more as the skill of both him and his teammates fades. It's not a switch he can just turn on and off.
I obviously have a hard-on against Green as he's a pure piece of shit. That said, he is an intriguing personality not just because of his obvious intelligence and charm, but that he's both a great player and, weirdly, not really an "alpha-dog" even though, in general, that automatically goes with being a great player. I mean, anyone who has done what he has done has to have some of that alpha in him. But the beauty of his game is his willingness to not be an alpha dog on the court. He's remarkably ego-less in his play. There's a very good argument that he should shoot more/demand the ball more. But, at least as a player, he's almost the opposite of the typical NBA alpha dog. One of the most selfless players I've ever seen. It's a cliche to talk about guys who "do all the dirty work" but Green truly does sacrifice his own basketball ego to the greater team good to an amazing level. Frankly, he really should shoot more, demand the ball more. Much as I can't stand the guy for all the non-basketball things he does on the court (and off), his game is a thing of beauty in a non-alpha way.
 

Tony C

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This is clearly a massive troll job by Rudy
"I have empathy for him," Gobert told ESPN after an eight-point, 12-rebound performance during the Timberwolves' 119-101 win over the Dallas Mavericks. "You see somebody that's not well inside and suffering. You take away the game and all that, and you want somebody to be well and be able to do what we do every night and compete and be happy."
 

slamminsammya

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I have mixed feelings on this. On the one hand, I'm all for restorative justice, not being retributive and giving a guy a chance to get himself right. And, clearly, the core issue here is Draymond has some sort of unresolved mental issue. On the flip side, well, I just saw a clip from Joe Dumars and that seemed to be his position, too. A lot of... "this isn't about punishment, it's about getting Dray right" sort of language. In principle, I kind of agree, but that's basically been the position of the NBA throughout: one set of rules for 99% of the players, and Dray gets to slide. It isn't that I think they should be punitive just to be punitive, but the double standards are egregious and one has to think that's been part of enabling Green to think his shit doesn't stink and he can do whatever he wants to do. That brings me back to having an issue with Dumars being the primary arbiter of discipline. Woj talks about how Green "grew up in Dumars house" (not a precise quote, but words to that effect referring to Green's college years..so I don't think it's quite growing up) and just read this on ESPN:
I mean...his "father figure" since he was 16 has been in charge of his discipline? How is that not a clear conflict of interest? How is that not part of the story of how Green has skated time and time again?
I mean, I"m glad Dumars told him on Wednesday that the incidents need to stop. But how about someone tell Dumars and the NBA that a father figure should not be in charge of doling out discipline to his quasi-son? Yes Green clearly needs help and counseling and whatever. But part of that help is not treating him like he's the prodigal son who has a different set of rules. I still have the suspicion -- all the more after viewing Dumars -- that this indefinite suspension won't be that different than the Warriors having him take a vacation for clocking Poole. Yes, he needs help. But the NBA also needs to enforce rules and do so equitably, rather than having one set of rules for some players and a different set of rules for Green.

tl;dr: the best restorative justice in this case would be giving Green a good, long, definitive suspension with clear rules that when he comes back neither haranguing refs nor punching, kicking, pushing, stomping, punch-slapping other players will be permitted.



I obviously have a hard-on against Green as he's a pure piece of shit. That said, he is an intriguing personality not just because of his obvious intelligence and charm, but that he's both a great player and, weirdly, not really an "alpha-dog" even though, in general, that automatically goes with being a great player. I mean, anyone who has done what he has done has to have some of that alpha in him. But the beauty of his game is his willingness to not be an alpha dog on the court. He's remarkably ego-less in his play. There's a very good argument that he should shoot more/demand the ball more. But, at least as a player, he's almost the opposite of the typical NBA alpha dog. One of the most selfless players I've ever seen. It's a cliche to talk about guys who "do all the dirty work" but Green truly does sacrifice his own basketball ego to the greater team good to an amazing level. Frankly, he really should shoot more, demand the ball more. Much as I can't stand the guy for all the non-basketball things he does on the court (and off), his game is a thing of beauty in a non-alpha way.
You completely lost me on the "he should shoot more". Have you seen him trying to make his own offense?
 

Euclis20

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You completely lost me on the "he should shoot more". Have you seen him trying to make his own offense?
Yeah he's even spoken on his podcast about how he's in his own head regarding scoring (in context of talking about what's happened to Ben Simmons). He can't be trusted to ever make an open jump shot (.294 from 3 over the last 7 seasons) and any lightly contested layup is an adventure. And that's with him spending his prime surrounded by 2-3 of the best shooters ever, the spacing was incredible.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Yeah he's even spoken on his podcast about how he's in his own head regarding scoring (in context of talking about what's happened to Ben Simmons). He can't be trusted to ever make an open jump shot (.294 from 3 over the last 7 seasons) and any lightly contested layup is an adventure. And that's with him spending his prime surrounded by 2-3 of the best shooters ever, the spacing was incredible.
Draymond worked on his shooting over the summer bc not only is he shooting 43% on his 3's and 83% from the line, but everything about his shot has look better.....even Curry collapsed the defense on a final possession last week on a designed game winning three attempt by Green.
 

Euclis20

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Draymond worked on his shooting over the summer bc not only is he shooting 43% on his 3's and 83% from the line, but everything about his shot has look better.....even Curry collapsed the defense on a final possession last week on a designed game winning three attempt by Green.
Yeah he's looked miles better this year, but comparing the last 7 years and around 1400 attempts (including playoffs) at around 29% with 15 games and 42 attempts this year...I need to see more.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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He's always defended all the stuff he's now saying "has to change".

The league pretty clearly told him to cut the shit. Pretty sad that that's what it takes for Steve Kerr to become a decent human being.
He’s the coach of a team whose GM signed Dray to a 4/$100 mill extension this summer. Draymond is a super dirty basketball player, and I don’t care one way or another about Kerr, but the whole enabler/decent human thing is asinine
 

lovegtm

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He’s the coach of a team whose GM signed Dray to a 4/$100 mill extension this summer. Draymond is a super dirty basketball player, and I don’t care one way or another about Kerr, but the whole enabler/decent human thing is asinine
I would agree for a normal basketball player doing normal intense things.

Draymond has been a threat to kill or seriously, seriously injure another person for awhile now.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He’s the coach of a team whose GM signed Dray to a 4/$100 mill extension this summer. Draymond is a super dirty basketball player, and I don’t care one way or another about Kerr, but the whole enabler/decent human thing is asinine
100%! This may be the first time I've defended Kerr but he's simply doing his job towing the company (Warriors) line with Coachspeak PR in protecting their investment.


Draymond has been a threat to kill or seriously, seriously injure another person for awhile now.
Kill? Good lord lol.
 

BigSoxFan

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Do you think that Draymond is incapable of curb-stomping a guy's head? That doesn't seem at all farfetched to me. The man is criminally insane.
Forget American History X stuff, how many times have we seen someone in a street fight get sucker punched like he hit Poole, get knocked out, and then die on the impact with the ground? It’s definitely not out of the realm of possibility for something like that to happen on a hard basketball court.
 

BaseballJones

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What Draymond needs is for someone to kick his ass when he does something like this. I’m sure there are plenty of guys in the NBA who could do that without too much difficulty.
 

Smokey Joe

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Do you think that Draymond is incapable of curb-stomping a guy's head? That doesn't seem at all farfetched to me. The man is criminally insane.
Actually your skull is pretty tough. The more likely scenario is a blow to the chest. If you do it at the right time and you can put the heart into v-fib. A few years back we had a patient found dead in a barn and the best guess was a kick to the chest by a horse. The hoof print on the sternum was a clue. You will also find case reports of hockey players dying after taking a puck to the chest.
Then there is the possibility of breaking someones neck by undermining them while they are up in the air or pushing them into something unyielding while they are running full tilt down the court.
These guys are big and powerful. They can do alot of damage with a blow. Just ask Rudy Tomjanovich.
 

lovegtm

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Actually your skull is pretty tough. The more likely scenario is a blow to the chest. If you do it at the right time and you can put the heart into v-fib. A few years back we had a patient found dead in a barn and the best guess was a kick to the chest by a horse. The hoof print on the sternum was a clue. You will also find case reports of hockey players dying after taking a puck to the chest.
Then there is the possibility of breaking someones neck by undermining them while they are up in the air or pushing them into something unyielding while they are running full tilt down the court.
These guys are big and powerful. They can do alot of damage with a blow. Just ask Rudy Tomjanovich.
Well, at least we know Draymond would never stomp a guy's chest, so we can rule that death scenario out.

In all seriousness, I think it makes people uncomfortable to talk about how dangerously violent this man is. He breaks all the "oh, it's just guys competing hard in a physical sport" intuitions.
 

BrotherMouzone

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Take away the physical acts of violence too. For a league that is trying to crack down on complaining to the officials (and your mileage may vary on how successful that campaign is), no one is more demonstrative with his displeasure than Draymond.

For all the talk about the many ejections and suspensions he's faced, I haven't seen much written or discussed about his behavior towards referees.
 

InstaFace

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I mean, complaints about his complaining make up at least a third, maybe half, of the remarks in the Port Cellar about him. Mostly because of the double standard, but partly because some here (myself included) want this to be a sport with less whining and disrespect towards the officials, and he's the most habitual line-stepper in that regard.

If you meant among the national basketball media, then I agree, but only because that's not something they write about anyway - it's not interesting to readers. If it bleeds, it leads.
 

Justthetippett

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What Draymond needs is for someone to kick his ass when he does something like this. I’m sure there are plenty of guys in the NBA who could do that without too much difficulty.
The paradox that the league finds itself in is that this kind of self-enforcement amongst players has been taken out of the game. Now the only way to fix things (if his own teammates won't step up) is through the League office, and that's far away from the court and context where Draymond's stuff is happening. I don't think it will work.
 

gammoseditor

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