Everybody Hates Draymond

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
14,011
Eventually, there is no difference between reckless "potentially" intentional behavior and just regular intentional behavior.

Draymond does this stuff so much more often and so much more aggressively than anyone else in the NBA.

In a vacuum maybe you can squint and claim some of these individual acts are just reckless clumsiness. But taken in totality, it's clear the guy is just a lunatic.

Get him out of the NBA ASAP.
 

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,772
It's just getting weird. I know the Warriors announcers and other sycophants will bend over to make excuses again, but at this point it's just WWF level of aggression. Not watching Kerr's press conference, but...don't envy him being put in that position
Yeah I'm doubling and tripling down on all this not being an on the floor ref this by being a hush-hush directive from the top. These cannot all be coincidences. Doesn't pass the logic test.
2 points. One, i fully agree. It makes no sense otherwise. The only justification is that it's akin to how in the NFL the league directs refs to have points of emphasis. Right now there are a ton of false start calls for centers who move the ball. It's dumb. It's out of proportion. But I guess the idea with these points of emphases is that a few weeks of NFL refs calling even the most minor occurrences will get players attention and change patterns of behavior. I suppose the NBA may have decided similarly in re the constant whining by players that it is getting obnoxious (and, even if it didn't at all deserve an ejection Jokic...just run down the court and play basketball! Christ, maybe there was a touch of contact, but looked like a fine no call to me). Perhaps the calculation is that a stretch of just tossing people will get guys to just play rather than whine constantly? I say that as someone who doesn't get why people constantly complain about players arguing. Doesn't really bug me.

Point 2, to flip it back to Draymond, if there is a "point of emphasis" why doesn't it apply to Green? He is way over the top in terms of complaining all game long every time i see him. But he skates and only seems to be penalized when he hits someone upside the head or in the throat or balls or whatever, and even then he'll likely get yet another slap on the wrist. If there is a point of emphasis about complaining, they might want to start with the most out of control guy in the league. Dude has a screw loose.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,065
Fuck him. He is an enabler. He should be put down just like his rabid dog.
How is he an "enabler"...by playing him when he's not suspended? I'm no Kerr genius coach guy by any means but what does this mean? My read on Kerr is that each day he is forced to take the podium to defend Green is the worse day of his week/month/year.
 
Last edited:

Montana Fan

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 18, 2000
9,135
Twin Bridges, Mt.
He seems like a completely fine, well-liked guy off the court.

For whatever reason, he becomes dangerously insane between the lines. Hopefully he can be pushed into a media role sooner than later: he'll provide good content and stop endangering other players.
LGTM, not trying to fight with you but kinda reminds me of an abuser that is an awesome guy in the office but at home…not so much. I know I’m projecting a bit but don’t see myself embracing a retired Draymond.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
13,342
LGTM, not trying to fight with you but kinda reminds me of an abuser that is an awesome guy in the office but at home…not so much. I know I’m projecting a bit but don’t see myself embracing a retired Draymond.
Look, I'm as anti Draymond as they come on-court. I just see how competitive sports can make otherwise fine humans completely snap, and Draymond seems to be at the far end of the snapping distribution.

I don't see any reason to believe he wouldn't be a fine guy in all facets of life if the competitive sports were removed, which is why this feels different to me from the home/office abuser example.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
31,100
Green is toast as a full-time player. He knows it and knew it before anyone. This act is all he has. He figures a bunch of players in the league dont want to get punched in the head and nuts while he rolls into their ACL. His last gasp is to use their hesitation to his advantage.
 

CoffeeNerdness

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2012
9,016
Hopefully any suspension covers Dec. 19th. It seems a matter of when not if he'll cause a serious injury.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
11,062
It's just getting weird. I know the Warriors announcers and other sycophants will bend over to make excuses again, but at this point it's just WWF level of aggression. Not watching Kerr's press conference, but...don't envy him being put in that position
It looks like Draymond’s act has got to the point he’s lost the media now. The only media member I saw somewhat stick up for him was Tim Kawakami, who somehow came to the conclusion that Nurkic flopped?
The TNT studio guys (Grant Hill, Jamal Crawford and Vince Carter) all thought he would be suspended. Hill guessed for more than 5 games. Richard Jefferson did a quick video clip where he called current Draymond “bad for the game”

I have no idea how you could watch that clip and stick up for him. Or how you could come to the conclusion that he didn’t mean to hit him (as Draymond claims). Its a ridiculous play and an embarrassment
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
23,154
LGTM, not trying to fight with you but kinda reminds me of an abuser that is an awesome guy in the office but at home…not so much. I know I’m projecting a bit but don’t see myself embracing a retired Draymond.
I know TNT was kind of grooming him to step into a major media role, but I'm not sure that's in the cards for him on his current trajectory. Most NBA fans seem to really dislike him and he's easily the biggest villain in the league.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,861
Pittsburgh, PA
LGTM, not trying to fight with you but kinda reminds me of an abuser that is an awesome guy in the office but at home…not so much. I know I’m projecting a bit but don’t see myself embracing a retired Draymond.
I certainly would have a very hard time listening to him and not instinctively seething. The minute he voices his opinion on somebody or some play, or calls someone soft, I would absolutely lose it.

They never put Bill Laimbeer behind a mic, though he has become something of a HOF-level coach in the WNBA, which is surprising but good for him. But at least I don't have to listen to the guy and pretend he's not a scumbag.


In other news, Luka Doncic outdueled Lebron James last night on the second night of a back-to-back. He talked afterwards about "everything hurts" and "I'm getting old", while the opposing team's star is 38. Meanwhile, Kyrie Irving is on the sidelines in a walking boot and crutches. Kyzuzu should've gotten the name of Lebron's chemist when they were both on the Cavs.
 

InstaFace

The Ultimate One
SoSH Member
Sep 27, 2016
22,861
Pittsburgh, PA
Yeah there is no "potential" recklessness when you are backing into someone and do a 360 clothesline move. Shit is going to make an impact. That has a half-hearted fake of stumbling around.
I have no idea how you could watch that clip and stick up for him. Or how you could come to the conclusion that he didn’t mean to hit him (as Draymond claims). Its a ridiculous play and an embarrassment
I can at least understand the argument that most of these events were spur-of-the-moment, instinctual reactions. That it's the sporting equivalent of manslaughter, not murder. He bumped me, I got angry, I hit him. Don't get me wrong, it's shitty and that's no excuse, but I guess that's what people are saying when they say he "didn't intend it".

The problem is, there's almost no cold-blooded sporting offenses where you plan it out beforehand, think it through and look for your opportunity. Nobody plans to get a roughing-the-passer penalty or a helmet-to-helmet hit in the NFL, it happens because of either bad coaching or a lack of hesitation by the offending player. Like, that's what ALL of these violations are, no matter how damaging or injurious. In baseball maybe there's some times where a pitcher has an intentional HBP to send a message, or where a hockey team plans to rough somebody up to teach them a lesson and it's planned more than mere moments in advance... but those are very rare, and frankly usually less violent. It doesn't matter that Draymond didn't plan to kick somebody in the nuts or suplex them 2 seconds after the whistle while wrestling for a ball or do a spinning backfist. It's not an excuse! You have to avoid it anyway! And nobody else seems to have a problem avoiding violent conduct in the game.

Just about every foul that's called in a game (other than take fouls) is one the offender didn't intend to commit. But we have varying levels of penalty, because we want to insert some level of hesitation before you go hog wild. More to the point, we want players to take special care when it comes to actions that might actually injure an opponent. A little slap of a hand or arm in a shooting motion is a foul within the context of playing the game - it affects the fairness dynamic surrounding "Trying to put the ball in the basket". It's called because we want players to be free to shoot the ball and see if they make it, but there's no purpose or concern beyond that. Whereas, actions that could actually hurt someone - we're talking about enormous humans moving full-speed and needing / using strength for most plays - are an entirely different category. Frustration fouls where you follow through and hit someone's head. Clipping someone who's in the air, causing them to crash-land awkwardly. Or stuff that hurts a player while having no connection to trying to make a play. That's the stuff we have extra rules about, extra concern for, additional discipline for, because it doesn't matter if it's "intentional". The player has to have some hesitation about such things, has to play in a way that shows regard for opponents' safety, or else we're just having a highly stylized brawl out there. Draymond specializes in just about every class of behavior that shows a total lack of regard for anyone's safety. So it really pisses me off when someone says "oh he didn't mean to do that" in a manner that suggests excusing the behavior. THAT'S BESIDES THE POINT, HE SHOULDN'T DO IT, NOBODY SHOULD DO IT.

If he's not suspended for this, I expect we'll see some eye gouging next. I mean, at that point, why not, right? Why not swing elbows on every rebound? I'm not trying to hit him, he just had the misfortune of being in my way! Good christ, that shit doesn't fly for my 7-year-old, nevermind a grown man. If I want to see a fight, I watch one where both people are going into it expecting a fight.
 

sox311

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 30, 2004
1,753
That's what she said.
I know TNT was kind of grooming him to step into a major media role, but I'm not sure that's in the cards for him on his current trajectory. Most NBA fans seem to really dislike him and he's easily the biggest villain in the league.
This is what I thought of as well. His schtick is no different than Donald Trump. He was in line to take Barkely's spot eventually. I really don't want to be watching him on TNT for the next 20 years...
 

ElUno20

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
6,297
This is what I thought of as well. His schtick is no different than Donald Trump. He was in line to take Barkely's spot eventually. I really don't want to be watching him on TNT for the next 20 years...
I feel exactly the same. I hope he's not the Chuck replacement. It's not even that he's bad at media (he isnt, he's really good), he's just an asshat who's ruined all goodwill with non warriors fans.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
23,154
This is what I thought of as well. His schtick is no different than Donald Trump. He was in line to take Barkely's spot eventually. I really don't want to be watching him on TNT for the next 20 years...
Yeah, Draymond has a big personality that works well for media, but a key thing about the TNT show in particular is that people actually like Chuck, Kenny and Shaq. Sure, Chuck in particular might have been a villain at one point in the league, but ultimately he is a good natured, likeable dude. Draymond's reputation is shit among pretty much every NBA fan except Warrior fans, and even some of them are sick of his act. Maybe it all blows over by the time he retires, but even if he is a good personality on TV, it would seem to be a risk for TNT to throw him on a universally well-received show like Inside the NBA.

I could totally see him screaming into the void on ESPN or FS1 and arguing with Stephen A. Smith or Shannon Sharpe or Skip or whoever, though.
 

Euclis20

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2004
8,660
Imaginationland
Yeah, Draymond has a big personality that works well for media, but a key thing about the TNT show in particular is that people actually like Chuck, Kenny and Shaq. Sure, Chuck in particular might have been a villain at one point in the league, but ultimately he is a good natured, likeable dude. Draymond's reputation is shit among pretty much every NBA fan except Warrior fans, and even some of them are sick of his act. Maybe it all blows over by the time he retires, but even if he is a good personality on TV, it would seem to be a risk for TNT to throw him on a universally well-received show like Inside the NBA.

I could totally see him screaming into the void on ESPN or FS1 and arguing with Stephen A. Smith or Shannon Sharpe or Skip or whoever, though.
Stick him next to Pat Bev. Draymond can call various guys soft while Beverly snorts and makes snide comments about Chris Paul.
 

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,772
He seems like a completely fine, well-liked guy off the court.

For whatever reason, he becomes dangerously insane between the lines. Hopefully he can be pushed into a media role sooner than later: he'll provide good content and stop endangering other players.
Look, I'm as anti Draymond as they come on-court. I just see how competitive sports can make otherwise fine humans completely snap, and Draymond seems to be at the far end of the snapping distribution.

I don't see any reason to believe he wouldn't be a fine guy in all facets of life if the competitive sports were removed, which is why this feels different to me from the home/office abuser example.
Everyone is well served by ignoring randos on the internet who claim to have personal knowledge of things out of the public eye. But I'm going to be one of those randos understanding that you should all ignore me. But I do have it on good authority that he is the same guy with his family that he is with opponents on the court. I can't prove that, but I have full confidence in the person who told me that. Again, there's no reason for anyone to believe that and in principle you're well served to ignore and I'm well served not to repeat what I can't prove. I repeat it only because, while the stuff on the court chaps my ass, that he can get away with off the court stuff is even worse. I agree fully he seems like a charming and intelligent guy in his off-court media appearances, so I can understand why you'd think he's a fine off-court guy who has something that goes off during competition.

I do hope that more than another toothless 5-game suspension this punctures his retirement ambitions to be a talking head. That's probably the biggest price he can pay.
 

CoffeeNerdness

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 6, 2012
9,016
I mean, the guy didn't haul off and wallop Jordan Poole in the face because he's a "competitive sports guy". He's not the first psycho to fool people with a charming facade.
 

DavidTai

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 18, 2003
1,292
Herndon, VA
I hate the whining atmosphere in the NBA (and really at all levels of basketball) and don't really have a problem with officials lowering the standard for ejection if it cleans up some of the more demonstrative displays, especially coming from stars.
Now if only they applied it to Draymond...
 

gammoseditor

also had a stroke
SoSH Member
Jul 17, 2005
4,298
Somerville, MA
Absolutely deserved. After his last suspension he showed no remorse. He said it was unfair that his history was used against him in the length of his last suspension. That showed he didn’t understand that the suspension is supposed to be a deterrent against future actions. He has shown no intention of altering his future actions. Any reinstatement should be contingent on him acknowledging he needs to change his behavior and if he doesn’t the next suspension can be measured in seasons.
 

Light-Tower-Power

ask me about My Pillow
SoSH Member
Jun 14, 2013
16,402
Nashua, NH
Seems like the league has finally had enough of Draymond's shit. Any guesses as to how long indefinitely will be? Guessing this lasts 10-20 games, and when he inevitably chokes, punches, or kicks someone in the nuts the next time he gets the Artest treatment.
 

nattysez

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2010
8,712
Seems like the league has finally had enough of Draymond's shit. Any guesses as to how long indefinitely will be? Guessing this lasts 10-20 games, and when he inevitably chokes, punches, or kicks someone in the nuts the next time he gets the Artest treatment.
Local sports radio rightly pointed out that this seems like a Ja-style intervention, not just a punishment. I think it's at least 10 games, and possibly a lot longer.
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,784
Seems like the league has finally had enough of Draymond's shit. Any guesses as to how long indefinitely will be? Guessing this lasts 10-20 games, and when he inevitably chokes, punches, or kicks someone in the nuts the next time he gets the Artest treatment.
Through the All Star break? I think it's going to be lengthy just to cool everything down.
 

Senator Donut

post-Domer
SoSH Member
Apr 21, 2010
5,643
How is he an "enabler"...by playing him when he's not suspended? I'm no Kerr genius coach guy by any means but what does this mean? My read on Kerr is that each day he is forced to take the podium to defend Green is the worse day of his week/month/year.
I don’t speak for @luckiestman and I’m not sure I’d call Kerr an “enabler” but the Warriors decided as an organization there would be zero on-court punishment for Green punching Poole because they didn’t want him to miss the ring ceremony. At that point, Green knew he could walkover anyone on the Warriors payroll and that’s probably where his behavior skewed even further erratically.
 

Sox and Rocks

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2013
5,886
Northern Colorado
It takes months, if not years, for counseling to really work. See you next year at the earliest, Dramond (Silver doesn't have the stones for the rest of the year, but he should).
 

Sox and Rocks

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2013
5,886
Northern Colorado
I find it ironic that Jokic got ejected for cursing at an official on the same night Dramond through a haymaker at Nurkic's jaw. When Green isn't engaging in dirty play, he's constantly berating officials. Using the same standard, he would get ejected from the majority of his games.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,065
I don’t speak for @luckiestman and I’m not sure I’d call Kerr an “enabler” but the Warriors decided as an organization there would be zero on-court punishment for Green punching Poole because they didn’t want him to miss the ring ceremony. At that point, Green knew he could walkover anyone on the Warriors payroll and that’s probably where his behavior skewed even further erratically.
Appreciate the explanation. I don't really think that plays any factor into Draymond's internal issues when in the heat of battle though. His problem is that he isn't able to control his emotions and is acting instinctually in these cases. The NBA took action a few weeks ago along with likely another stern (silver?) warning yet that didn't change his pattern of behavior either. Kerr, nor anyone else, can control Draymond's actions when he gets triggered.
 

SteveF

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
2,172
This makes what Zach Lowe said in his podcast make sense. He was clearly tipped off, maybe off the record.
 

snowmanny

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 8, 2005
16,021
Appreciate the explanation. I don't really think that plays any factor into Draymond's internal issues when in the heat of battle though. His problem is that he isn't able to control his emotions and is acting instinctually in these cases. The NBA took action a few weeks ago along with likely another stern (silver?) warning yet that didn't change his pattern of behavior either. Kerr, nor anyone else, can control Draymond's actions when he gets triggered.
But what, exactly, triggered him here? Was there some confrontation I missed? Was he hit or upset about something? He goes over, aggressively fronts the guy then spins around and whacks him. Not sure he needs anger management if he just hits folks whenever; he needs total management.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,065
But what, exactly, triggered him here? Was there some confrontation I missed? Was he hit or upset about something? He goes over, aggressively fronts the guy then spins around and whacks him. Not sure he needs anger management if he just hits folks whenever; he needs total management.
Yeah I have no idea. Completely random. The guy has obvious issues. This is why I don't feel that any type of enabling isn't relevant in his case. To think that it plays any factor is to believe that if Kerr suspended him last year for the Poolie incident he'd be fine today and last night doesn't happen. That doesn't pass the smell test to me.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,899
Santa Monica
the Warriors decided as an organization there would be zero on-court punishment for Green punching Poole because they didn’t want him to miss the ring ceremony. At that point, Green knew he could walkover anyone on the Warriors payroll and that’s probably where his behavior skewed even further erratically.
Worse than that, the Warriors rewarded Draymond with a 4yr $100MM deal in June, while immediately trading Poole. They scapegoated JP for last season

The Warriors blamed everyone (some video employees mostly) but Green for punching a teammate last year.

Dray wasn't the least bit remorseful last night, because he knows the Warriors have his back.
The League should fine Golden State 10X (not happening) whatever Draymond loses in lost wages. Let the Chase Center season ticket holders start paying for some of this crap since they enjoy it so much.

The money can go to domestic violence victims.
 

Kliq

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 31, 2013
23,154
IDK how long Draymond's suspension lasts, I remember Ja's suspension lasted shorter than most people anticipated. But the league needed to crack down on him because somebody was eventually going to get really hurt.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
31,100
But what, exactly, triggered him here? Was there some confrontation I missed? Was he hit or upset about something? He goes over, aggressively fronts the guy then spins around and whacks him. Not sure he needs anger management if he just hits folks whenever; he needs total management.
He was about to get beat on defense. So he blasted his opponent. He's toast with fists, elbows and knees.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
31,065
He was about to get beat on defense. So he blasted his opponent. He's toast with fists, elbows and knees.
I mean there is making shit up to fit their agenda and then there is this.....

Golden State was inbounding the ball when this play occurred.
 

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,772
I hadn’t really digested that Green and Joe Dumars are tight and Green is apparently best of friends with Dumars’ son. Might explain some of the double-standards in terms of how lightly Green has been treated until now. At a minimum, to have the guy in charge of disciplinary action for the NBA not recuse himself is problematic.
As for this, I’ll be convinced this is real when there’s real evidence. To hear Green last night flat out lying like a narcissistic psycho and now read that supposedly he’s had a come to Jesus moment and knows he needs help feels a lot like good PR spin to me.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
26,211
Los Angeles, CA
I can at least understand the argument that most of these events were spur-of-the-moment, instinctual reactions. That it's the sporting equivalent of manslaughter, not murder. He bumped me, I got angry, I hit him. Don't get me wrong, it's shitty and that's no excuse, but I guess that's what people are saying when they say he "didn't intend it".
As we all know by now, according to the law "premeditation" can happen in a second. It doesn't require an attack plan written down on paper before the game. In all of these instances of Green attempting to injure other players, he (pathetically) tries to hide it with him wildly failing his body all about, as if he just couldn't help it. He's trying to get away with this shit. That demonstrates forethought. It's all premeditated. He 100% intends to do it.
 

djbayko

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
26,211
Los Angeles, CA
It takes months, if not years, for counseling to really work. See you next year at the earliest, Dramond (Silver doesn't have the stones for the rest of the year, but he should).
Let's be real here. They aren't looking for a Dr. to sign off on Draymond being a completely changed man. They probably have some minimum requirements for # of counseling sessions and then maybe Draymond having to say all of the right things in a sit down with Silver, et al. (which only requires a little bit of intelligence + a desire to get back onto the court, not true rehabilitation).

Edit: Frankly, I kinda hope he screws up again (without seriously hurting anyone, obviously) because he should already be on the "suspended for a season+" level by now.
 
Last edited: