It's a 4 game suspension, so either anabolic agents or stimulants. It is a pretty bad allergy season. Maybe he took some Claritin D.Has it been confirmed what Edelman tested positive for?
"I am very sorry - I don't know what happened. I've obviously beaten many, many tests over the course of my career. I can't really tell you the truth, and luckily the appeal gives me an excuse to stay quiet. But I will be ready to pursue another championship starting in Week 5."Meanwhile, Edelman (kinda) speaks:
You must use the SoSH app and can’t see tweets? If you’re going by my post, that’s my satiristic twist on what he actually said. But there are other statements in there that should have been dead giveawaysDon't you have to be dirty to "beat" the drug test? Seems like a weird way for Edelman to say he's tested clean many times, but I suppose it was just a weird choice of words.
Sorry, no I'm just a moron and thought you were adding the text below the tweet like some people do for folks using the app.You must use the SoSH app and can’t see tweets? If you’re going by my post, that’s my satiristic twist on what he actually said.
Use tapatalk instead of the sosh app. It works much better.I can never see tweets on the Sosh app and if I inadvertently hit the link to one it crashes the app.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/11/report-julian-edelman-tested-positive-for-unrecognizable-substance/Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman has acknowledged he is facing a four-game suspension under the NFL’s policy on performance-enhancing substances, but he also said he doesn’t know what happened. It appears the league’s drug testing experts aren’t completely sure what happened either.
According to Albert Breer of SI.com, Edelman’s result was triggered by a substance that wasn’t immediately recognizable, and the drug testers are still analyzing it.
That might sound strange, but it’s not unprecedented for the drug testers to need time to determine what substance a player took: In 2003, four Raiders players tested positive for tetrahydrogestrinone, or THG, a substance that wasn’t initially detectable in urine tests. It was only after the lengthy Balco investigation that drug testers re-tested stored urine samples and detected the substance.
Breer adds that Edelman’s test took place a couple months ago, during the offseason. That means that whatever substance he tested positive for, it wasn’t a stimulant like Adderall. Use of stimulants in the regular season is considered a performance-enhancing substance issue, but during the offseason it’s considered a substance abuse issue.
They have not suspended him yet.Report: Julian Edelman tested positive for unrecognizable substance
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/11/report-julian-edelman-tested-positive-for-unrecognizable-substance/
How are they suspending him if it’s an unrecognizable substance?
True, but PFT's example is from re-testing old samples _after_ the substance become detectable. If there is already a suspension under appeal here, that wouldn't seem to apply.They have not suspended him yet.
The way testing lists used to be written was by naming all the specific banned substances. Something else cropped up and you thought people were using it, add it to the list. The athletes were buying things off the shelf, tested publicly available drugs. One of the "innovations" that Victor Conte and BALCO came up with was making your own steroids, in their case ones that had been researched but never made it to market. If they didn't previously exist, then how would the testing protocols know to test for and ban them? So after that, the doping rules became a bit different, and added phrases that banned anything that was similar in structure and biological effect to the existing drug list. So you couldn't take an existing drug, tack something extra onto the structure that (hopefully) didn't change its effects, and be in the clear.Report: Julian Edelman tested positive for unrecognizable substance
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/11/report-julian-edelman-tested-positive-for-unrecognizable-substance/
How are they suspending him if it’s an unrecognizable substance?
So we’re riding the assumption Guerrero gave Edelman this substance? Seems like a highly irresponsible thing to do. Or are you saying potentially?Yup. Change in regime occasioned by four Raiders in 2003.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/11/report-julian-edelman-tested-positive-for-unrecognizable-substance/amp/
There are two rabbit holes. One is the League is out to screw the Pats. The other is Guerrero is way ahead of the curve, and by the way this accounts for Brady’s performance too. It’s way premature to jump into either one.
I am saying that’s what people who are jumping into one of those rabbit holes already are going to say — and then they will link it to Brady.So we’re riding the assumption Guerrero gave Edelman this substance? Seems like a highly irresponsible thing to do. Or are you saying potentially?
Be prepared for this to reach a crescendo if Brady has any level of regression over last year. Even a mediocre game will lead to claims Edelman getting caught forced Brady off of an illegal regimen.Yup. Change in regime occasioned by four Raiders in 2003.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/11/report-julian-edelman-tested-positive-for-unrecognizable-substance/amp/
There are two rabbit holes. One is the League is out to screw the Pats. The other is Guerrero is way ahead of the curve, and by the way this accounts for Brady’s performance too. It’s way premature to jump into either one.
It's possible. Fitness guru/coach claims amazing new technique/training method/product, gains cult like devotion from high level pro athletes who rise to new levels of performance or maintain performance at advanced age, and then prominent client athlete gets busted and it turns out the real secret was steroids/hgh/other PEDs is an incredibly common story in sports. Especially track and field. I wouldn't be hugely surprised if Guerrero, who has an incredibly sketchy background, was distributing some next level drug. BALCO was originally pitched as a service that tested your urine, used that to figure out what your vitamin deficiencies were, and sold you vitamins, specifically a zinc/magnesium pill (ZMA). They were really sending out the samples anonymously to a third party to see if they would pass standard drug tests, and providing novel steroids, HGH, testosterone creams, and schedules for taking them. Maybe the Guerrero thing is in part a cover for distributing drugs to athletes.So we’re riding the assumption Guerrero gave Edelman this substance? Seems like a highly irresponsible thing to do. Or are you saying potentially?
Of course it’s possible, but making the assumption is insanely unfair. I’m sure Edelman takes plenty of stuff on his own, or at least obviously could. Brady, Gronk, and Edelman also very likely test their own stuff and hire experts to help them along the process, so I’d be quite surprised if Guerrero was able to lace their shit with PEDs without one of them catching on.It's possible.
I said it was possible but not particularly likely. Would you agree or disagree about that?Of course it’s possible, but making the assumption is insanely unfair. I’m sure Edelman takes plenty of stuff on his own, or at least obviously could. Brady, Gronk, and Edelman also very likely test their own stuff and hire experts to help them along the process, so I’d be quite surprised if Guerrero was able to lace their shit with PEDs without one of them catching on.
I think I’ve posted this in every PED thread I’ve ever read on SoSH but it bears repeating as we get into who “fits the profile” of a PED user ...I’d be surprised if Brady was on a ton of stuff; maybe some hgh analogue or trt. But, he’s got a pretty average build, doesn’t seem to have put on much if any muscle or strength or gained any speed from his time in the league, and he’s so much more focused on technique and flexibility than weight room heroics.
Whatever JE is taking is likely very different in type and quantity than Tom.
I know powerlifter and bodybuilders who love Winstrol because it gives great strength gains and good, dry lean mass gains. But, I’ve lifted with people who got such tremendous joint pain on it they could barely lift. Some people have success stacking it with NPP or other compounds that “lube” the joints, but then you’re on more sauce with more sides, etc.Ben Johnson was busted for winstrol that to this day makes him think his drink or test was spiked. He admitted under oath he used steroids, but found winstrol made him stiff and if anything slower and had not used it in years leading up to the olympics. He maintains, everyone was juicing and thjere is buddy of Carl Lewis that brags about acting like Ben's friend and putting stuff in his drink. On the other hand some other guys have had success with winstrol.
Looking objectively at who is more likely taking a banned substance, I would absolutely point to JE over Brady for the reasons stated above, but also Edelman seems to fit the profile of a PED user to an absolute T.Helps recovery is vague. All steroids help recovery. They all also help build muscle and strength. Palmeiro was a big guy and got bigger on steroids.
Brady, for a professional athlete, doesn’t have a ton of muscle tone. He’s not Jay Cutler, but he’s not Kaepernick either.
Also, I’m pretty sure Winstrol can cause a bunch of joint stiffness or soreness. I believe it’s mainly avoided by athletes because of that.
I think Brady probably takes enough test or hgh to help with recovery. I don’t think he’s blasting 4 compounds to get bigger, stronger, faster.
What's your basis on this other than his physical size? If I compare his pro day combine numbers to the 2018 combine WR results, he looks maybe average to just below in 40 times, but above average in vertical, broad jump and bench reps.Looking objectively at who is more likely taking a banned substance, I would absolutely point to JE over Brady for the reasons stated above, but also Edelman seems to fit the profile of a PED user to an absolute T.
Smaller slot receiver, somewhat limited athletically, multiple severe injuries throughout his career, also insanely in shape.
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/julian-edelmanWhat's your basis on this other than his physical size? If I compare his pro day combine numbers to the 2018 combine WR results, he looks maybe average to just below in 40 times, but above average in vertical, broad jump and bench reps.
That part of the Tom v. Time where Brady's making fun of Edelman for lifting just to get vanity muscles comes to mind.https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/julian-edelman
Edelman has an insane 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle, which directly correlates to his quickness and ability to win in the slot. His top end speed is below average, but he isn’t a plodder.
I suppose it’s relative. At his position, Edelman’s quickness and short area speed wins over straight line speed. He has elite quickness and acceleration. Maybe limited isn’t the correct word. Average is probably correct. I may not have given him proper credit.
Yes, "helps recovery" is vague -- but my point is motive. Every time an athlete tests positive for a PED, the first thing people do is look at their muscles -- and the second is their numbers. What I'm saying is that the numbers people probably *should* be looking at is seasons and games played. Why? Because professional sports are games of attrition.Helps recovery is vague. All steroids help recovery. They all also help build muscle and strength. Palmeiro was a big guy and got bigger on steroids.
If a substance promotes muscle grown, why wouldn't it promote recovery from muscle bruises which are torn up muscles?I’m going to need to see some science or some more specifics for what type of recovery you mean. I’m not so sure taking steroids helps you recovery from bumps and bruises or stay healthy. It helps your muscles recovery if you’re playing a game at night and lifting in the morning.
Getting injured is largely flukish. Maybe Palmeiro was never on the DL because he was a DH and didn’t take chances on the base paths.
If TB12 juices, the specific form should probably be legal and part of the TB12 regimen.Avoiding injury has a huge luck component to it, and luck plays a much bigger role that many people want to admit.
Palmeiro was certainly durable. From 1988 to 2004, he played less than 154 games 3 times: 1988 when he played 152; 1994, when he played in 111 of the 112 games played in that strike-shortened season; and 1995, when he played 143 of the 144 games played in that season. And it wasn't just all DH, as he was DH for only 431 of his 2352 career games. Most of the rest he was 1B, although he had 213 games in the OF as well.
Did steroids help him avoid the DL? Most DL stints are caused by injuries that have nothing to do with steroid usage or lack thereof. He was insanely lucky that he didn't ever seriously sprain an ankle or knee running the bases (he did have 137 stolen base attempts); or break a bone by fouling a ball of his foot; or got beaned by a Nolan Ryan fastball (he was plunked 87 times in his career). Steroids will not prevent those type of injuries.
I have heard the "steroids help athletes recover faster" topic come up from multiple sources, so it is indeed possible that PED usage could have contributed to his ability to play effectively well into his late 30's. But I'm not sure I would say steroids were the sole contributor to Palmeiro's health; lots of players juiced and still ended up on the DL for extended periods of time. Look at Manny, for example.
Anyway, if Brady juices, then so does every QB in the league, including the guys holding the clipboards. To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if that is the case. At this point, anyone claiming that fewer than 90% of NFL'ers take PED's probably should be asked to show their work.
Anabolic steroids will help with the repair of muscle tissue. So you could lift weights heavily more often and still repair the damage before competition. Or if you played a sport that is the equivalent of being in a car accident once a week, your muscles could recover before the next competition. If you got a non-muscular injury like a bone or tendon injury, they could help you strengthen muscles that had been weakened by inactivity more quickly and come back sooner. But they're not knitting bone, cartilage or tendon back together, and they're not fixing a concussion, you're completely right about that. Athletes often take HGH in hopes that it will help heal tendon or cartilage damage, but from my understanding there actually isn't great evidence that it works like that for adults. Luck is probably the biggest factor in players not getting hurt, possibly tied with genetic/biological differences between athletes. Correlation and causation are not the same thing, and the fact that Tom Brady and Raffi Palmeiro didn't get injured while Jose Canseco and Ted Johnson did is probably not because of stretching, vitamin b-12 injections, and occasional juice cleanses. But the fact that an NFL linebacker can completely tear his knee apart in October and come back for the playoffs tells me a little something extra might be going in their workout shakes. It could be PEDs or it could be massive doses of pain killers, but something is going into that guy to get him back out there.Avoiding injury has a huge luck component to it, and luck plays a much bigger role that many people want to admit.
Palmeiro was certainly durable. From 1988 to 2004, he played less than 154 games 3 times: 1988 when he played 152; 1994, when he played in 111 of the 112 games played in that strike-shortened season; and 1995, when he played 143 of the 144 games played in that season. And it wasn't just all DH, as he was DH for only 431 of his 2352 career games. Most of the rest he was 1B, although he had 213 games in the OF as well.
Did steroids help him avoid the DL? Most DL stints are caused by injuries that have nothing to do with steroid usage or lack thereof. He was insanely lucky that he didn't ever seriously sprain an ankle or knee running the bases (he did have 137 stolen base attempts); or break a bone by fouling a ball of his foot; or got beaned by a Nolan Ryan fastball (he was plunked 87 times in his career). Steroids will not prevent those type of injuries.
I have heard the "steroids help athletes recover faster" topic come up from multiple sources, so it is indeed possible that PED usage could have contributed to his ability to play effectively well into his late 30's. But I'm not sure I would say steroids were the sole contributor to Palmeiro's health; lots of players juiced and still ended up on the DL for extended periods of time. Look at Manny, for example.
Anyway, if Brady juices, then so does every QB in the league, including the guys holding the clipboards. To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if that is the case. At this point, anyone claiming that fewer than 90% of NFL'ers take PED's probably should be asked to show their work.
Yes. This.Anabolic steroids will help with the repair of muscle tissue. So you could lift weights heavily more often and still repair the damage before competition. Or if you played a sport that is the equivalent of being in a car accident once a week, your muscles could recover before the next competition. If you got a non-muscular injury like a bone or tendon injury, they could help you strengthen muscles that had been weakened by inactivity more quickly and come back sooner. But they're not knitting bone, cartilage or tendon back together, and they're not fixing a concussion, you're completely right about that. Athletes often take HGH in hopes that it will help heal tendon or cartilage damage, but from my understanding there actually isn't great evidence that it works like that for adults. Luck is probably the biggest factor in players not getting hurt, possibly tied with genetic/biological differences between athletes. Correlation and causation are not the same thing, and the fact that Tom Brady and Raffi Palmeiro didn't get injured while Jose Canseco and Ted Johnson did is probably not because of stretching, vitamin b-12 injections, and occasional juice cleanses. But the fact that an NFL linebacker can completely tear his knee apart in October and come back for the playoffs tells me a little something extra might be going in their workout shakes. It could be PEDs or it could be massive doses of pain killers, but something is going into that guy to get him back out there.
Carl Lewis said as muchYeah, I had a friend on the 1988 US Olympic team (not track), and after Ben Johnson got busted, he said that was surprising since literally the entire US track team did it too.
I would imagine because they can just get away with using EPO without all the complexities of blood doping. My understanding is that blood doping is pretty much undetectable other than measuring the resultant changes in certain blood test measurements. I don't think any of the major sports are tracking things like hematocrit levels the way cycling has, but I see no reason why if it's beneficial for a 110 lb cyclist that you wouldn't have basketball, hockey, football, tennis or soccer players all using them as well.Carl Lewis said as much
Like blood doping in cycling, which I'm surprised hasn't caught on/been detected in other sports