Edelman Suspended 4 Games for PEDs

troparra

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Has it been confirmed what Edelman tested positive for?
It's a 4 game suspension, so either anabolic agents or stimulants. It is a pretty bad allergy season. Maybe he took some Claritin D.
 

djbayko

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Meanwhile, Edelman (kinda) speaks:

"I am very sorry - I don't know what happened. I've obviously beaten many, many tests over the course of my career. I can't really tell you the truth, and luckily the appeal gives me an excuse to stay quiet. But I will be ready to pursue another championship starting in Week 5."
 

BigJimEd

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I like how Schefter states that this is "very confidential." Yes, obviously. That is why you are reporting on it and random people were posting about it previously.
Very confidential, indeed.
 
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Don't you have to be dirty to "beat" the drug test? Seems like a weird way for Edelman to say he's tested clean many times, but I suppose it was just a weird choice of words.
 

djbayko

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Don't you have to be dirty to "beat" the drug test? Seems like a weird way for Edelman to say he's tested clean many times, but I suppose it was just a weird choice of words.
You must use the SoSH app and can’t see tweets? If you’re going by my post, that’s my satiristic twist on what he actually said. But there are other statements in there that should have been dead giveaways ;)
 
Feb 19, 2015
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You must use the SoSH app and can’t see tweets? If you’re going by my post, that’s my satiristic twist on what he actually said.
Sorry, no I'm just a moron and thought you were adding the text below the tweet like some people do for folks using the app.
 

soxhop411

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Report: Julian Edelman tested positive for unrecognizable substance

Patriots wide receiver Julian Edelman has acknowledged he is facing a four-game suspension under the NFL’s policy on performance-enhancing substances, but he also said he doesn’t know what happened. It appears the league’s drug testing experts aren’t completely sure what happened either.

According to Albert Breer of SI.com, Edelman’s result was triggered by a substance that wasn’t immediately recognizable, and the drug testers are still analyzing it.

That might sound strange, but it’s not unprecedented for the drug testers to need time to determine what substance a player took: In 2003, four Raiders players tested positive for tetrahydrogestrinone, or THG, a substance that wasn’t initially detectable in urine tests. It was only after the lengthy Balco investigation that drug testers re-tested stored urine samples and detected the substance.

Breer adds that Edelman’s test took place a couple months ago, during the offseason. That means that whatever substance he tested positive for, it wasn’t a stimulant like Adderall. Use of stimulants in the regular season is considered a performance-enhancing substance issue, but during the offseason it’s considered a substance abuse issue.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/11/report-julian-edelman-tested-positive-for-unrecognizable-substance/

How are they suspending him if it’s an unrecognizable substance?
 

bsj

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How in the fuck is a guy suspended for using a PED when you dont even know what the fuck a substance is, never mind if it is even a PED?

Oh...NFL. Nevermind. Carry on
 

shaggydog2000

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Report: Julian Edelman tested positive for unrecognizable substance


http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/11/report-julian-edelman-tested-positive-for-unrecognizable-substance/

How are they suspending him if it’s an unrecognizable substance?
The way testing lists used to be written was by naming all the specific banned substances. Something else cropped up and you thought people were using it, add it to the list. The athletes were buying things off the shelf, tested publicly available drugs. One of the "innovations" that Victor Conte and BALCO came up with was making your own steroids, in their case ones that had been researched but never made it to market. If they didn't previously exist, then how would the testing protocols know to test for and ban them? So after that, the doping rules became a bit different, and added phrases that banned anything that was similar in structure and biological effect to the existing drug list. So you couldn't take an existing drug, tack something extra onto the structure that (hopefully) didn't change its effects, and be in the clear.

It sounds to me like they found something in Edelman's test that is not a marketed, existing drug. But they believed it was close enough to an existing one to count as a failed test. Now they're trying to figure out exactly what it is and where it came from.
 

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Yup. Change in regime occasioned by four Raiders in 2003.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/11/report-julian-edelman-tested-positive-for-unrecognizable-substance/amp/

There are two rabbit holes. One is the League is out to screw the Pats. The other is Guerrero is way ahead of the curve, and by the way this accounts for Brady’s performance too. It’s way premature to jump into either one.
So we’re riding the assumption Guerrero gave Edelman this substance? Seems like a highly irresponsible thing to do. Or are you saying potentially?
 

dcmissle

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So we’re riding the assumption Guerrero gave Edelman this substance? Seems like a highly irresponsible thing to do. Or are you saying potentially?
I am saying that’s what people who are jumping into one of those rabbit holes already are going to say — and then they will link it to Brady.

In our media thread it has been reported that one of the Felger and Mazz jack offs is saying Belichick turned Edelman in to the testing authorities — to screw Guerrero. You don’t have to leave Boston to find this nonsense. There is plenty of crazy at home.

And ignoring, or ignorant of, the point made by shaggydog, on the other aide of the ledger, Jerry Thornton already is getting his persecution complex on —

 

RIFan

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Yup. Change in regime occasioned by four Raiders in 2003.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/06/11/report-julian-edelman-tested-positive-for-unrecognizable-substance/amp/

There are two rabbit holes. One is the League is out to screw the Pats. The other is Guerrero is way ahead of the curve, and by the way this accounts for Brady’s performance too. It’s way premature to jump into either one.
Be prepared for this to reach a crescendo if Brady has any level of regression over last year. Even a mediocre game will lead to claims Edelman getting caught forced Brady off of an illegal regimen.
 

Van Everyman

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Or, if Brady continues to play at the same level, accusations that he's still on something.

It's like throwing a witch in the water. It comes with success.
 

shaggydog2000

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So we’re riding the assumption Guerrero gave Edelman this substance? Seems like a highly irresponsible thing to do. Or are you saying potentially?
It's possible. Fitness guru/coach claims amazing new technique/training method/product, gains cult like devotion from high level pro athletes who rise to new levels of performance or maintain performance at advanced age, and then prominent client athlete gets busted and it turns out the real secret was steroids/hgh/other PEDs is an incredibly common story in sports. Especially track and field. I wouldn't be hugely surprised if Guerrero, who has an incredibly sketchy background, was distributing some next level drug. BALCO was originally pitched as a service that tested your urine, used that to figure out what your vitamin deficiencies were, and sold you vitamins, specifically a zinc/magnesium pill (ZMA). They were really sending out the samples anonymously to a third party to see if they would pass standard drug tests, and providing novel steroids, HGH, testosterone creams, and schedules for taking them. Maybe the Guerrero thing is in part a cover for distributing drugs to athletes.

But we're also talking about NFL players. Maybe I'm jaded from being on a track team in college and following the pro/olympic levels there (where everybody gets caught eventually), but enough athletes get caught in the NFL, and the size/appearance/performance of the players is so freakish that I suspect all of them of being on performance enhancers of some sort. I think there are a whole lot of places Edelman could have gotten PEDs, and there is no reason to think Guerrero is a particularly likely source of the drugs. If it is some novel new drug, that would point to something more organized and well funded. That would make Guerrero slightly more likely, but there are still so many places out there that Edelman could have gotten the drugs from that I don't really think the probability is significant. It makes me a bit more suspicious, but I was suspicious of Guerrero beforehand, and I'm suspicious in general.
 

lexrageorge

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There is really little chance that fewer than 95% of NFL athletes are using some form of PED's. And I'm sure there's enough ways for NFL players to get them so that they don't need to hire a Guerrero either.
 

Ed Hillel

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It's possible.
Of course it’s possible, but making the assumption is insanely unfair. I’m sure Edelman takes plenty of stuff on his own, or at least obviously could. Brady, Gronk, and Edelman also very likely test their own stuff and hire experts to help them along the process, so I’d be quite surprised if Guerrero was able to lace their shit with PEDs without one of them catching on.
 

Marciano490

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I’d be surprised if Brady was on a ton of stuff; maybe some hgh analogue or trt. But, he’s got a pretty average build, doesn’t seem to have put on much if any muscle or strength or gained any speed from his time in the league, and he’s so much more focused on technique and flexibility than weight room heroics.

Whatever JE is taking is likely very different in type and quantity than Tom.
 

shaggydog2000

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Of course it’s possible, but making the assumption is insanely unfair. I’m sure Edelman takes plenty of stuff on his own, or at least obviously could. Brady, Gronk, and Edelman also very likely test their own stuff and hire experts to help them along the process, so I’d be quite surprised if Guerrero was able to lace their shit with PEDs without one of them catching on.
I said it was possible but not particularly likely. Would you agree or disagree about that?
 

reggiecleveland

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I am not so sure about the prevalence of PEDS. Certainly Lyle Alzado et al had the juicer look that some guys today have. Guys with money could get stuff to beat tests, but do college kids at the combine, or practice squad has resources to beat the tests? I don't think they do. There is selection process, more money for lineman etc, that leads to bigger lineman. In the 80s the kid you recruited to be 220lb TE just juiced it and played in the NFL as a 275lb tackle.

At one time if you were over 6-5 you likley played hoops. Division 2 basketball used to be full of guys that are now protecting the blind side or hitting homers for the Yankees, or spiking the crap out of TD catches.

Now the NFL is full of guys on pain medicine and lots of new drugs, I just don't think it is everybody.
 

Van Everyman

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I’d be surprised if Brady was on a ton of stuff; maybe some hgh analogue or trt. But, he’s got a pretty average build, doesn’t seem to have put on much if any muscle or strength or gained any speed from his time in the league, and he’s so much more focused on technique and flexibility than weight room heroics.

Whatever JE is taking is likely very different in type and quantity than Tom.
I think I’ve posted this in every PED thread I’ve ever read on SoSH but it bears repeating as we get into who “fits the profile” of a PED user ...

When Rafael Palmiero got busted in 2005(?) for using PEDs, he was on the verge of the Hall of Fame. Palmiero had had a very good career but never hit more than 47 home runs – a lot for sure but not exactly Sammy Sosa numbers. The assumption was that he had used steroids to increase his power because, well, that’s what baseball players using steroids used them for.

However, what fell under the radar was what happened *after* he returned from his suspension: he went on the disabled list. Why is that notable? Because it was the first time Palmiero went on the DL over the course of his 19 year career. And sure enough, what was the drug he had tested positive for? Winstrol – which helps with recovery.

Palmiero was a very good ball player during his career but never “great” – but he was on the verge of going into the Hall because of counting stats: 3K hits, 500 homers. Great numbers to be sure but in retrospect numbers that he was able to achieve almost certainly because of his extraordinary health.

I’m saying this (again) because I think we have such a bias toward thinking that performance-enhancing drugs are used to build muscle mass that we seriously discount how often they are used to enhance and speed recovery.

Which is to say, who fits the profile of a PED user? Professional athletes.
 

Marciano490

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Helps recovery is vague. All steroids help recovery. They all also help build muscle and strength. Palmeiro was a big guy and got bigger on steroids.

Brady, for a professional athlete, doesn’t have a ton of muscle tone. He’s not Jay Cutler, but he’s not Kaepernick either.

Also, I’m pretty sure Winstrol can cause a bunch of joint stiffness or soreness. I believe it’s mainly avoided by athletes because of that.

I think Brady probably takes enough test or hgh to help with recovery. I don’t think he’s blasting 4 compounds to get bigger, stronger, faster.
 

reggiecleveland

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Ben Johnson was busted for winstrol that to this day makes him think his drink or test was spiked. He admitted under oath he used steroids, but found winstrol made him stiff and if anything slower and had not used it in years leading up to the olympics. He maintains, everyone was juicing and thjere is buddy of Carl Lewis that brags about acting like Ben's friend and putting stuff in his drink. On the other hand some other guys have had success with winstrol.
 

Marciano490

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Ben Johnson was busted for winstrol that to this day makes him think his drink or test was spiked. He admitted under oath he used steroids, but found winstrol made him stiff and if anything slower and had not used it in years leading up to the olympics. He maintains, everyone was juicing and thjere is buddy of Carl Lewis that brags about acting like Ben's friend and putting stuff in his drink. On the other hand some other guys have had success with winstrol.
I know powerlifter and bodybuilders who love Winstrol because it gives great strength gains and good, dry lean mass gains. But, I’ve lifted with people who got such tremendous joint pain on it they could barely lift. Some people have success stacking it with NPP or other compounds that “lube” the joints, but then you’re on more sauce with more sides, etc.
 

sodenj5

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Helps recovery is vague. All steroids help recovery. They all also help build muscle and strength. Palmeiro was a big guy and got bigger on steroids.

Brady, for a professional athlete, doesn’t have a ton of muscle tone. He’s not Jay Cutler, but he’s not Kaepernick either.

Also, I’m pretty sure Winstrol can cause a bunch of joint stiffness or soreness. I believe it’s mainly avoided by athletes because of that.

I think Brady probably takes enough test or hgh to help with recovery. I don’t think he’s blasting 4 compounds to get bigger, stronger, faster.
Looking objectively at who is more likely taking a banned substance, I would absolutely point to JE over Brady for the reasons stated above, but also Edelman seems to fit the profile of a PED user to an absolute T.

Smaller slot receiver, somewhat limited athletically, multiple severe injuries throughout his career, also insanely in shape.

It’s easy to point to it in retrospect, but it’s not completely shocking when looking at it objectively.

Also, Edelman basically misses 4 games where he may not have been 100% anyways, and gets to continue/extend his playing career with basically zero repercussions so long as he doesn’t get caught again. Seems like a no-brainer from his perspective.
 

Dernells Casket n Flagon

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Looking objectively at who is more likely taking a banned substance, I would absolutely point to JE over Brady for the reasons stated above, but also Edelman seems to fit the profile of a PED user to an absolute T.

Smaller slot receiver, somewhat limited athletically, multiple severe injuries throughout his career, also insanely in shape.
What's your basis on this other than his physical size? If I compare his pro day combine numbers to the 2018 combine WR results, he looks maybe average to just below in 40 times, but above average in vertical, broad jump and bench reps.
 

sodenj5

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What's your basis on this other than his physical size? If I compare his pro day combine numbers to the 2018 combine WR results, he looks maybe average to just below in 40 times, but above average in vertical, broad jump and bench reps.
https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/julian-edelman

Edelman has an insane 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle, which directly correlates to his quickness and ability to win in the slot. His top end speed is below average, but he isn’t a plodder.

I suppose it’s relative. At his position, Edelman’s quickness and short area speed wins over straight line speed. He has elite quickness and acceleration. Maybe limited isn’t the correct word. Average is probably correct. I may not have given him proper credit.
 

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https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/julian-edelman

Edelman has an insane 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle, which directly correlates to his quickness and ability to win in the slot. His top end speed is below average, but he isn’t a plodder.

I suppose it’s relative. At his position, Edelman’s quickness and short area speed wins over straight line speed. He has elite quickness and acceleration. Maybe limited isn’t the correct word. Average is probably correct. I may not have given him proper credit.
That part of the Tom v. Time where Brady's making fun of Edelman for lifting just to get vanity muscles comes to mind.
 

Van Everyman

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Helps recovery is vague. All steroids help recovery. They all also help build muscle and strength. Palmeiro was a big guy and got bigger on steroids.
Yes, "helps recovery" is vague -- but my point is motive. Every time an athlete tests positive for a PED, the first thing people do is look at their muscles -- and the second is their numbers. What I'm saying is that the numbers people probably *should* be looking at is seasons and games played. Why? Because professional sports are games of attrition.

In the case of Palmeiro, it seems kind of obvious in retrospect -- like, seriously, you've played for 19 years and haven't had a *single trip to the DL* in your entire career? But even today, we tend to think that injuries themselves are signs of potential steroid use (think Nomar), and not the absence of them over the course of a career. It's an eye thing, I suspect.

And, yes, by the consistency metric, everyone from Lebron to Greg Maddox to Tom Brady is "suspicious." Sure, those guys all got bigger and stronger as they got older (maybe not Maddox) but the secret to their success wasn't just that they got stronger -- it's that they weathered the beating professional sports takes on the body. I mean, what we just saw Lebron do? In my heart of hearts I’m not sure the human body is actually capable of that.
 

Marciano490

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I’m going to need to see some science or some more specifics for what type of recovery you mean. I’m not so sure taking steroids helps you recovery from bumps and bruises or stay healthy. It helps your muscles recovery if you’re playing a game at night and lifting in the morning.

Getting injured is largely flukish. Maybe Palmeiro was never on the DL because he was a DH and didn’t take chances on the base paths.
 

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I’m going to need to see some science or some more specifics for what type of recovery you mean. I’m not so sure taking steroids helps you recovery from bumps and bruises or stay healthy. It helps your muscles recovery if you’re playing a game at night and lifting in the morning.

Getting injured is largely flukish. Maybe Palmeiro was never on the DL because he was a DH and didn’t take chances on the base paths.
If a substance promotes muscle grown, why wouldn't it promote recovery from muscle bruises which are torn up muscles?

Similar question for muscle strains and muscle aches. Isn't this all a process of tearing and rebuilding muscle? Like, to some extent, isn't building muscle really just surplus repair biologically speaking? And if so, couldn't recovery and building mass be facilitated by these same substances?

What am I missing?
 

lexrageorge

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Avoiding injury has a huge luck component to it, and luck plays a much bigger role that many people want to admit.

Palmeiro was certainly durable. From 1988 to 2004, he played less than 154 games 3 times: 1988 when he played 152; 1994, when he played in 111 of the 112 games played in that strike-shortened season; and 1995, when he played 143 of the 144 games played in that season. And it wasn't just all DH, as he was DH for only 431 of his 2352 career games. Most of the rest he was 1B, although he had 213 games in the OF as well.

Did steroids help him avoid the DL? Most DL stints are caused by injuries that have nothing to do with steroid usage or lack thereof. He was insanely lucky that he didn't ever seriously sprain an ankle or knee running the bases (he did have 137 stolen base attempts); or break a bone by fouling a ball of his foot; or got beaned by a Nolan Ryan fastball (he was plunked 87 times in his career). Steroids will not prevent those type of injuries.

I have heard the "steroids help athletes recover faster" topic come up from multiple sources, so it is indeed possible that PED usage could have contributed to his ability to play effectively well into his late 30's. But I'm not sure I would say steroids were the sole contributor to Palmeiro's health; lots of players juiced and still ended up on the DL for extended periods of time. Look at Manny, for example.

Anyway, if Brady juices, then so does every QB in the league, including the guys holding the clipboards. To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if that is the case. At this point, anyone claiming that fewer than 90% of NFL'ers take PED's probably should be asked to show their work.
 

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Avoiding injury has a huge luck component to it, and luck plays a much bigger role that many people want to admit.

Palmeiro was certainly durable. From 1988 to 2004, he played less than 154 games 3 times: 1988 when he played 152; 1994, when he played in 111 of the 112 games played in that strike-shortened season; and 1995, when he played 143 of the 144 games played in that season. And it wasn't just all DH, as he was DH for only 431 of his 2352 career games. Most of the rest he was 1B, although he had 213 games in the OF as well.

Did steroids help him avoid the DL? Most DL stints are caused by injuries that have nothing to do with steroid usage or lack thereof. He was insanely lucky that he didn't ever seriously sprain an ankle or knee running the bases (he did have 137 stolen base attempts); or break a bone by fouling a ball of his foot; or got beaned by a Nolan Ryan fastball (he was plunked 87 times in his career). Steroids will not prevent those type of injuries.

I have heard the "steroids help athletes recover faster" topic come up from multiple sources, so it is indeed possible that PED usage could have contributed to his ability to play effectively well into his late 30's. But I'm not sure I would say steroids were the sole contributor to Palmeiro's health; lots of players juiced and still ended up on the DL for extended periods of time. Look at Manny, for example.

Anyway, if Brady juices, then so does every QB in the league, including the guys holding the clipboards. To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if that is the case. At this point, anyone claiming that fewer than 90% of NFL'ers take PED's probably should be asked to show their work.
If TB12 juices, the specific form should probably be legal and part of the TB12 regimen.
 

shaggydog2000

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Avoiding injury has a huge luck component to it, and luck plays a much bigger role that many people want to admit.

Palmeiro was certainly durable. From 1988 to 2004, he played less than 154 games 3 times: 1988 when he played 152; 1994, when he played in 111 of the 112 games played in that strike-shortened season; and 1995, when he played 143 of the 144 games played in that season. And it wasn't just all DH, as he was DH for only 431 of his 2352 career games. Most of the rest he was 1B, although he had 213 games in the OF as well.

Did steroids help him avoid the DL? Most DL stints are caused by injuries that have nothing to do with steroid usage or lack thereof. He was insanely lucky that he didn't ever seriously sprain an ankle or knee running the bases (he did have 137 stolen base attempts); or break a bone by fouling a ball of his foot; or got beaned by a Nolan Ryan fastball (he was plunked 87 times in his career). Steroids will not prevent those type of injuries.

I have heard the "steroids help athletes recover faster" topic come up from multiple sources, so it is indeed possible that PED usage could have contributed to his ability to play effectively well into his late 30's. But I'm not sure I would say steroids were the sole contributor to Palmeiro's health; lots of players juiced and still ended up on the DL for extended periods of time. Look at Manny, for example.

Anyway, if Brady juices, then so does every QB in the league, including the guys holding the clipboards. To be honest, it wouldn't surprise me if that is the case. At this point, anyone claiming that fewer than 90% of NFL'ers take PED's probably should be asked to show their work.
Anabolic steroids will help with the repair of muscle tissue. So you could lift weights heavily more often and still repair the damage before competition. Or if you played a sport that is the equivalent of being in a car accident once a week, your muscles could recover before the next competition. If you got a non-muscular injury like a bone or tendon injury, they could help you strengthen muscles that had been weakened by inactivity more quickly and come back sooner. But they're not knitting bone, cartilage or tendon back together, and they're not fixing a concussion, you're completely right about that. Athletes often take HGH in hopes that it will help heal tendon or cartilage damage, but from my understanding there actually isn't great evidence that it works like that for adults. Luck is probably the biggest factor in players not getting hurt, possibly tied with genetic/biological differences between athletes. Correlation and causation are not the same thing, and the fact that Tom Brady and Raffi Palmeiro didn't get injured while Jose Canseco and Ted Johnson did is probably not because of stretching, vitamin b-12 injections, and occasional juice cleanses. But the fact that an NFL linebacker can completely tear his knee apart in October and come back for the playoffs tells me a little something extra might be going in their workout shakes. It could be PEDs or it could be massive doses of pain killers, but something is going into that guy to get him back out there.
 

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Anabolic steroids will help with the repair of muscle tissue. So you could lift weights heavily more often and still repair the damage before competition. Or if you played a sport that is the equivalent of being in a car accident once a week, your muscles could recover before the next competition. If you got a non-muscular injury like a bone or tendon injury, they could help you strengthen muscles that had been weakened by inactivity more quickly and come back sooner. But they're not knitting bone, cartilage or tendon back together, and they're not fixing a concussion, you're completely right about that. Athletes often take HGH in hopes that it will help heal tendon or cartilage damage, but from my understanding there actually isn't great evidence that it works like that for adults. Luck is probably the biggest factor in players not getting hurt, possibly tied with genetic/biological differences between athletes. Correlation and causation are not the same thing, and the fact that Tom Brady and Raffi Palmeiro didn't get injured while Jose Canseco and Ted Johnson did is probably not because of stretching, vitamin b-12 injections, and occasional juice cleanses. But the fact that an NFL linebacker can completely tear his knee apart in October and come back for the playoffs tells me a little something extra might be going in their workout shakes. It could be PEDs or it could be massive doses of pain killers, but something is going into that guy to get him back out there.
Yes. This.
 

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Yeah, I had a friend on the 1988 US Olympic team (not track), and after Ben Johnson got busted, he said that was surprising since literally the entire US track team did it too.
Carl Lewis said as much

Like blood doping in cycling, which I'm surprised hasn't caught on/been detected in other sports
 

Dernells Casket n Flagon

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Carl Lewis said as much

Like blood doping in cycling, which I'm surprised hasn't caught on/been detected in other sports
I would imagine because they can just get away with using EPO without all the complexities of blood doping. My understanding is that blood doping is pretty much undetectable other than measuring the resultant changes in certain blood test measurements. I don't think any of the major sports are tracking things like hematocrit levels the way cycling has, but I see no reason why if it's beneficial for a 110 lb cyclist that you wouldn't have basketball, hockey, football, tennis or soccer players all using them as well.

As far as I can tell, in the history of the NBA the only players who have been suspended for PEDs are Lindsey Hunter, Darius Miles, Rashard Lewis, OJ Mayo (twice), Hedo Turkoglu, Joakim Noah and Jodie Meeks. Shows how much of a joke their testing policy must be.