#DFG: Canceling the Noise

Is there any level of suspension that you would advise Tom to accept?


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TheoShmeo

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If this has been covered above, apologies.  I haven't had time to read every post from the last 24-hours.
 
But why on earth was Donald Yee handling what amounts to discovery requests from Wells and his team?  Given the nature of the exercise -- an investigation being conducted by lawyers that would lead to a report issued by lawyers -- why Tom didn't have counsel interacting with Paul Weiss is beyond me.  Yee handed the other side easy ammunition by not conducting himself the way any litigator would have. 
 

ivanvamp

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Myt1 said:
Destroying the phone was an awful move because litigation could have reasonably been anticipated.

But Goodell's decision very clearly misrepresents Brady's testimony and draws an adverse inference from that misrepresentation. Actually calling it a misrepresentation is being too kind. Goodell lied about Brady's testimony in his decision.

Aside from the generally inside baseball stuff about spoliation, the phone would have meant literally nothing in this sham process.
 
Lawyers - it seems abundantly clear that Goodell lied about Brady's testimony.  As in, it's impossible to conclude otherwise.  If that's so, can that be used in the lawsuit?  That is, can the fact that Goodell issued his decision partly on grounds which he completely fabricated be evidence that this was not a fair process?  Or is this one of those "well it sucks but Berman can't actually touch that issue"?
 

jablo1312

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The revelation from Sean Sullivan (the Colts equipment manager) came out about 3 months ago, but a couple things I haven't seen this discussed anywhere, either here (where I've been lurking in these threads since day 1) or in the media at large...
 
1. Where did S.S. get the notion that "it is well known around the league that after the Patriots gameballs are checked by the officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the patriots will let out some air with a ball needle"? Has anyone spoken to him or Grigson further about this claim? Who told S.S. about this?
 
2. Did Wells ever mention attempting to interview S.S., or get in contact with him (it doesn't seem like Wells or his team every spoke to him)? A claim like that seems like it would be of great interest considering its a statement from an outside party directly accusing the Patriots of what Wells was investigating. Why wasn't he brought in by Wells for further testimony?
 
Maybe I'm missing something but this seems like it was glossed over a bit. A statement like this seems central to the investigation and the idea that the Pats had a "scheme" in place to deflate balls. 
 

Average Reds

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Myt1 said:
Destroying the phone was an awful move because litigation could have reasonably been anticipated.

But Goodell's decision very clearly misrepresents Brady's testimony and draws an adverse inference from that misrepresentation. Actually calling it a misrepresentation is being too kind. Goodell lied about Brady's testimony in his decision.

Aside from the generally inside baseball stuff about spoliation, the phone would have meant literally nothing in this sham process.
 
To me, that's the closest the NFL has come to crossing the threshold of actual malice needed for a defamation suit.
 
Still very problematic to proceed with one, but the incredible disconnect between how Goodell & Co. have been portraying the appeals hearing and the actual transcripts is jarring and outrageous.
 

nighthob

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They weren't guilty.
rodderick said:
Yeah, I wouldn't use the West Memphis Three as a comparison, seeing as they were most likely guilty.
As DNA that wasn't theirs was found in the bindings of one of the victims they were most likely not. As the evidence that was used was of the "ZOMG, SATAN!!!" variety there just isn't a lot there to indicate that they were.
 

joe dokes

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THAT absolutely screams intentionality to me.  They could have quelled this thing.  They chose not to.  What someone needs to sleuth out for real is WHY.  
 
Because the only thing that mattered to the man in charge was looking TOUGH. When he first got wind of deflation (accurate, except for the science he didn't yet know about), Goodell saw his chance to go from wife-beater-enabler to Kennesaw Mountain Landis.  Exact same thing erupts with another team, instigated by a butt-hurt rival, and I thing Goodell fucks it up in the exact same way. Maybe he got less public pushback on the Patriots because of their success and "reputation," but Goodell's motivation was about Goodell.
 
Like Pete Seeger wrote, "....and the big fool said to push on......"
 
 
And as AvReds says, it really doesn't matter; the end result is the same.
 

DJnVa

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Did I miss the posts here about Brady's emails that were released? Especially the one where he calls Brunell a Patriots hater?
 

j44thor

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Did anyone else catch this discrepancy regarding phone-gate.
 
I also disagree with yesterdays narrative surrounding my cellphone. I replaced my broken Samsung phone with a new iPhone 6
 
 
link
 
An initial examination of the Samsung Galaxy Note 4 indicated that its dates of active use were from March 6, 2015 through April 8, 2015. As such it was deemed to be outside the scope of the investigation and nofurther analysis was conducted.
 
 
Why is Brady going out of his way to say he switched out a broken Samsung for an Iphone when it appears instead he activated another Samsung on March 6th, the day of the investigation.
 
Seems very unnecessary to put forth that explanation if it wasn't true.  Just say you replaced your broken phone with another one.
 
This might bother me more than anything else from Brady at this point.  Hope he at least got some schwag from Apple for this.
 

rodderick

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nighthob said:
They weren't guilty.

As DNA that wasn't theirs was found in the bindings of one of the victims they were most likely not. As the evidence that was used was of the "ZOMG, SATAN!!!" variety there just isn't a lot there to indicate that they were.
This isn't the place for this, but read wm3truth.com when you have the time. I was convinced of their innocence as well, but after looking at everything that surrounded the case I believe they were guilty and that the documentaries went after the case trying to paint them as misunderstood children in the middle of a satanic panic from the get go, which isn't completely true. Echols in particular was an extremely troubled young man, he wasn't singled out just because he wore black and listened to heavy metal. I can't say for certain they did it, but the whole case is a lot less cut and dry than Paradise Lost would lead you to believe.
 

NortheasternPJ

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I love that Kraft signs his email with much love to Brady. I wonder if he got a smooch on the cheek next time he saw him.
 

nighthob

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jablo1312 said:
The revelation from Sean Sullivan (the Colts equipment manager) came out about 3 months ago, but a couple things I haven't seen this discussed anywhere, either here (where I've been lurking in these threads since day 1) or in the media at large...
 
1. Where did S.S. get the notion that "it is well known around the league that after the Patriots gameballs are checked by the officials and brought out for game usage the ballboys for the patriots will let out some air with a ball needle"? Has anyone spoken to him or Grigson further about this claim? Who told S.S. about this?
 
2. Did Wells ever mention attempting to interview S.S., or get in contact with him (it doesn't seem like Wells or his team every spoke to him)? A claim like that seems like it would be of great interest considering its a statement from an outside party directly accusing the Patriots of what Wells was investigating. Why wasn't he brought in by Wells for further testimony?
 
Maybe I'm missing something but this seems like it was glossed over a bit. A statement like this seems central to the investigation and the idea that the Pats had a "scheme" in place to deflate balls.
Wells clearly did speak to Sean Sullivan because he extensively discusses the Colts' (illegal) ball preparation procedures in the footnotes and makes note of the claim vis-á-vis the Patriots letting the air out of balls in the main body. He didn't drill down into the claim because finding out the truth of the matter wasn't part of his purview (I mean the fact that they went to a company like Exponent for the science makes this obvious).
 

jablo1312

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nighthob said:
Wells clearly did speak to Sean Sullivan because he extensively discusses the Colts' (illegal) ball preparation procedures in the footnotes and makes note of the claim vis-á-vis the Patriots letting the air out of balls in the main body. He didn't drill down into the claim because finding out the truth of the matter wasn't part of his purview (I mean the fact that they went to a company like Exponent for the science makes this obvious).
 
Yea, you're right, forgot his small role in the Wells report. Also relevant (Wells Report, pg. 46):
 
"They also cited unspecified chatter throughout the League that the Patriots prefer their footballs softer than other teams and that visiting teams should be on guard when playing at Gillette Stadium. They could not identify a specific source for this information or reference particular conversations."
 
Guess it was outside his purview to pursue this lead further than that. Still, interesting to me that he chose not to (or that he did and it revealed basically nothing worthy of including).
 

scott bankheadcase

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One thing being lost a little in this discussion is how a league works on a day-to-day basis with team communication. People in here complaining about Harbaugh and Pagano are either being biased Pats fans or just don't quite understand the dynamic. Teams talk to each other all the time and complain about other teams. Teams complain about each other to the league all the time (and "report" things to the league). Every team does it. I guarantee that the Patriots have complained to the league about other teams before as well. But these things are normally handled properly by the league and nothing (or small fines and discipline) result from it making no news.
 
This entire incompetent cluster should be placed squarely on the league. It's shocking how poorly this was handled by them.
 

Harry Hooper

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joe dokes said:
 
All true. But that's not Goodell trying to "get the Patriots."  They just happened to be the first  opportunity for Goodell to swing his dick, post domestic-violence clusterfuck.  *That's* why he didn't shut it down. Because he'd look weak and ineffective.  Again. Not, IMO, because it was the Patriots.
 
 
 
See above. Once it started, it was all about looking strong and tough and very judicial.  All the things that the League (Goodell) failed to look like with Rice.
 
 
I disagree. Look at the timing of so many of the  leaks, even early on. They went out right before the Pats, especially BB, had a mandatory speaking appearance scheduled. The one while they were flying to AZ is the best example.
 

BroodsSexton

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AB in DC said:
And by the way, the idea of settling on a one-game suspension (for obstruction only) is starting to look more and more appealing.  Unless Wells misrepresented his conversations with Brady/Yee at the appeal (and I have to assume that Kessler would have challenged him on that if that was the case), this was more than just challenging Wells on his right to the phone.  The lack of explanation to Wells seriously poisoned the investigation, and while the phone destruction was a bit of a red herring, it's absolutely clear that Brady should have just stashed it in a safe-deposit box somewhere just in case there were any issues.  I believe Brady when he says that he never intended to obstruct the investigation, but I can no longer make the case that no obstruction occurred.
 
 
Hopefully the news that Goodell basically lied about Brady's testimony will push him (or the judge) toward a settlement like this.
 
Obstruction is typically an intentional or willful offense.  If you don't intend to obstruct an investigation, you haven't obstructed it.
 

splendid splinter

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j44thor said:
Did anyone else catch this discrepancy regarding phone-gate.
 
 
link
 
 
Why is Brady going out of his way to say he switched out a broken Samsung for an Iphone when it appears instead he activated another Samsung on March 6th, the day of the investigation.
 
Seems very unnecessary to put forth that explanation if it wasn't true.  Just say you replaced your broken phone with another one.
 
This might bother me more than anything else from Brady at this point.  Hope he at least got some schwag from Apple for this.
 
Maybe he initially got a replacement Note 4 when his previous Samsung broke, and then decided to switch to the iPhone.  I feel like people parse his words way too much sometimes.  He's not likely going to say "My Samsung died and at first I got a new Samsung but then I decided I didn't like it and switched to an iPhone a month later."  He's going to give the synopsis version that he did - his phone broke and he switched to an iPhone.  If anything, the more detailed information gives me more confidence in Brady's testimony, since having another Samsung for a month would support the notion that his previous phone broke and that's why he replaced it, and not that he switched to an iPhone for some nefarious, investigation-obstructing reason.
 

nighthob

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Well, aside from the fact that they actually were convicted at the tail end of the Satanic Panic, and that the prosecution waved the Satanic Panic thing in front of a bible belt jury, and that the DNA actually collected at the crime scene didn't include theirs, and the most likely conclusion is that three troubled teens did 18 years for being troubled teens.
 

nighthob

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BroodsSexton said:
Obstruction is typically an intentional or willful offense.  If you don't intend to obstruct an investigation, you haven't obstructed it.
Yes, if every time someone lost something over the course of an investigation ended in an obstruction charge prosecutors would spend more time prosecuting the obstructors than the actual criminals.

I do want to make one related point about the whole cell phone thing (this isn't related to you specifically, since I'm not sure where you'd stand), but with the people saying that Brady should have saved it because he knew that it would be wanted in litigation. Isn't the only way he'd know that the phone would be needed in litigation is if he knew during the Wells interview that he was being railroaded and a lawsuit was the only way to avoid suspension? Not that that sort of paranoia wouldn't have been warranted (in hindsight), I just don't think there's any way that he could have known ahead of time that asserting his legal rights to keep private third party communications private would require litigation unless this was a witch hunt. (Put another way, I can't see any way of calling the replacement of a broken phone "obstruction" when he'd previously informed the Wells team that he wasn't sacrificing his right to privacy.)
 

nighthob

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splendid splinter said:
Maybe he initially got a replacement Note 4 when his previous Samsung broke, and then decided to switch to the iPhone.  I feel like people parse his words way too much sometimes.  He's not likely going to say "My Samsung died and at first I got a new Samsung but then I decided I didn't like it and switched to an iPhone a month later."  He's going to give the synopsis version that he did - his phone broke and he switched to an iPhone.  If anything, the more detailed information gives me more confidence in Brady's testimony, since having another Samsung for a month would support the notion that his previous phone broke and that's why he replaced it, and not that he switched to an iPhone for some nefarious, investigation-obstructing reason.
I mean, didn't he buy an Apple Watch in that timeframe? Do Apple Watches even work with Android devices?
 

dcmissle

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TheoShmeo said:
If this has been covered above, apologies.  I haven't had time to read every post from the last 24-hours.
 
But why on earth was Donald Yee handling what amounts to discovery requests from Wells and his team?  Given the nature of the exercise -- an investigation being conducted by lawyers that would lead to a report issued by lawyers -- why Tom didn't have counsel interacting with Paul Weiss is beyond me.  Yee handed the other side easy ammunition by not conducting himself the way any litigator would have. 
It is absurd. Tom cost himself and the team a lot of grief by relying on Yee and not relying on Kessler.

This is beyond any rational disputation.
 

Padaiyappa

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On a side note I could have sworn that the NFL advised the Patriots to suspend indefinitely JJ and McNally after the Wells Report was released. This got spun around by the media into the Patriots firing these guys for wrong doing. Am I mistaken with that assumption that the NFL wanted them suspended? Or is that another cover up by the NFL to make it appear that Patriots fired them at there own free will?
 

weeba

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DrewDawg said:
 
 
Yeah---just surprised it didn't make it over here within .37 seconds.
 
Tom Brady doing "debt collection" on Kraft is hilarious to me.
 
 
Did you see the search terms they used to get those emails (and texts)?  And nothing incriminating turned up
 
 
k-ball, kball, gage, air-pump, airpump, needle, pin, PSI, pounds per square inch, 12.5, bladder, McNally, Bird, 1 pound, 1 lb, one pound, one lb, 2 pound, 2 lb, two pound, two lb, gaug* [the * means that all variations of “gaug” were included, such as gauge, gauging, gauged etc.], pump*, inflat*, deflat*, (game OR kick*) ball ~2 [this means Brady’s emails were searched to see whether the words “game” or “kick*” were found within two words of “ball”], (prep* OR rub*) AND (ball OR football) ~10, (investigat* OR meet* OR discuss* OR question) AND (championship OR Jan* 18 OR 1/18), investigat* AND (ball OR football OR Ind* OR Colts) ~10, (equilib* OR atmosphere* OR climat* OR environment* OR test* OR experiment) AND (ball OR football) ~10
 
 

Harry Hooper

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Padaiyappa said:
On a side note I could have sworn that the NFL advised the Patriots to suspend indefinitely JJ and McNally after the Wells Report was released. This got spun around by the media into the Patriots firing these guys for wrong doing. Am I mistaken with that assumption that the NFL wanted them suspended? Or is that another cover up by the NFL to make it appear that Patriots fired them at there own free will?
 
Pats say they were so advised by the league. NFL says, "What are you talking about?" and denies. Whom do you believe more at this point?
 
It sounds like a re-run of the assurance made by Vincent to Peterson about a 2 game suspension being left in the dust by the NFL's subsequent actions.
 

burstnbloom

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Padaiyappa said:
On a side note I could have sworn that the NFL advised the Patriots to suspend indefinitely JJ and McNally after the Wells Report was released. This got spun around by the media into the Patriots firing these guys for wrong doing. Am I mistaken with that assumption that the NFL wanted them suspended? Or is that another cover up by the NFL to make it appear that Patriots fired them at there own free will?
Breer said on T&R last week that the Pats were annoyed that they suspended the guys with pay pending the investigation and the NFL characterized it very differently.
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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Harry Hooper said:
 
Pats say they were so advised by the league. NFL says, "What are you talking about?" and denies. Whom do you believe more at this point?
 
It sounds like a re-run of the assurance made by Vincent to Peterson about a 2 game suspension being left in the dust by the NFL's subsequent actions.
 
Schefter's report, or do you have any links with the Pats on record as saying this?
 

edmunddantes

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MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
 
Schefter's report, or do you have any links with the Pats on record as saying this?
Well Schefter also claimed 4 hour time limit and League denied it. Schefter then showed letter. League still spinned it.
 
Opening statement from Kessler notes his time limit. 4 hours.
 
At this point, who are you going to believe? Schefter or the league?
 

MuppetAsteriskTalk

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edmunddantes said:
Well Schefter also claimed 4 hour time limit and League denied it. Schefter then showed letter. League still spinned it.
 
Opening statement from Kessler notes his time limit. 4 hours.
 
At this point, who are you going to believe? Schefter or the league?
 
I absolutely believe Schefter.
 
I am just looking for a link where the Pats are on record about it and was hoping you could help.
 

splendid splinter

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dcmissle said:
It is absurd. Tom cost himself and the team a lot of grief by relying on Yee and not relying on Kessler.

This is beyond any rational disputation.
 
Was Kessler even in the picture at that point, though?  I thought he came on board for the appeal process and lawsuit.  Back before the Wells report came out, it was just Brady and Yee, and they probably had no idea (just as so many of us had no idea) the NFL had such a hard-on for punishing Brady for something, no matter what it took.  Maybe there was some legal advice coming from the NFLPA as well, but I think Yee was just out of his depth and didn't know it.  He and Brady probably figured he would play the good union guy and it would all blow over since he did nothing wrong.
 

edmunddantes

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splendid splinter said:
 
Was Kessler even in the picture at that point, though?  I thought he came on board for the appeal process and lawsuit.  Back before the Wells report came out, it was just Brady and Yee, and they probably had no idea (just as so many of us had no idea) the NFL had such a hard-on for punishing Brady for something, no matter what it took.  Maybe there was some legal advice coming from the NFLPA as well, but I think Yee was just out of his depth and didn't know it.  He and Brady probably figured he would play the good union guy and it would all blow over since he did nothing wrong.
I think this is key.
 
Despite his email "We are the patriots, everytihng is a big deal"
 
Brady, Kraft, et al had some weird expectation  rational actors were sitting across the table from them throughout this process. If we just cooperate, we'll be fine. We didn't do anything wrong.
 
It took them far too long to realize they needed to be treating this as a hostile attack on their reputations and character.
 

dcmissle

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splendid splinter said:
 
Was Kessler even in the picture at that point, though?  I thought he came on board for the appeal process and lawsuit.  Back before the Wells report came out, it was just Brady and Yee, and they probably had no idea (just as so many of us had no idea) the NFL had such a hard-on for punishing Brady for something, no matter what it took.  Maybe there was some legal advice coming from the NFLPA as well, but I think Yee was just out of his depth and didn't know it.  He and Brady probably figured he would play the good union guy and it would all blow over since he did nothing wrong.
He was a union member entitled to union representation in any League investigation. And if he wasn't, he should have steered the dollars he paid to Yee to somebody who knew how to handle something like this

Yes, it is that simple. Yee should have so advised him.
 

dcmissle

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Good Christ.

Must even the mildest criticism of any Patriot on any matter provoke a firestorm response?

They screwed up. Period.
 

Captaincoop

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Am I missing something, or does it make no difference whether he destroyed the phone?  He made it clear that, for whatever reason, he wasn't going to give the phone to the NFL.  If he had locked it in a safe deposit box at his attorney's request, the story would be that "Brady obviously did something wrong, since he won't give them his phone" instead of "Brady obviously did something wrong, since he destroyed his phone".  What difference does that make at this point?
 

RedOctober3829

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dcmissle said:
Good Christ.

Must even the mildest criticism of any Patriot on any matter provoke a firestorm response?

They screwed up. Period.
Nope, you are right.  Brady's camp screwed up there for sure.  However, the NFL has screwed up in a lot of areas that look worse than that decision.  A whole cluster of incompetence, outright lying, and at best misguidance.  
 

mandro ramtinez

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edmunddantes said:
I think this is key.
 
Despite his email "We are the patriots, everytihng is a big deal"
 
Brady, Kraft, et al had some weird expectation  rational actors were sitting across the table from them throughout this process. If we just cooperate, we'll be fine. We didn't do anything wrong.
 
It took them far too long to realize they needed to be treating this as a hostile attack on their reputations and character.
Brady was sitting across the table from someone conducting an investigation involving him.  He should have sought out better, more informed advice and when he did not seek that out, someone close to him (NFLPA, Kraft) should have told him to consider seeking such counsel.
 

Myt1

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Coop, it would have made no difference as to Goodell's decision. It's possibly sanctionable conduct or entitled to an adverse inference possibility in litigation.

Basically, those of us who know a bit about this stuff are generally telling you that this was an absurd railroading. But that doesn't mean that everything Brady and his team did was perfect or even remotely acceptable. That's all.
 

dcmissle

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No, an admission of common sense. And Yee is a lawyer, just the wrong kind.
 

Captaincoop

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Myt1 said:
Coop, it would have made no difference as to Goodell's decision. It's possibly sanctionable conduct or entitled to an adverse inference possibility in litigation.

Basically, those of us who know a bit about this stuff are generally telling you that this was an absurd railroading. But that doesn't mean that everything Brady and his team did was perfect or even remotely acceptable. That's all.
 
I'm a lawyer as well, although certainly not practicing in this area.  I just think the idea that Brady saving that phone would have changed the outcome is silly, and some people seem to be there.  Railroading is the perfect description of what happened here, and if it weren't "he destroyed his phone" it would have been "he won't provide his phone". 
 
I read the transcript and I think Brady could have come off looking more cooperative, but I can't tell whether it is because he actually did anything wrong, or because he knows he did nothing wrong and is afraid of giving them more ammo for the witchhunt.
 
Basically, I don't know how anyone, including the NFL, can look at the evidence here and say with any certainty that Brady did anything substantively wrong relative to any existing NFL policy or rule.  That is regardless of whether you have a feeling that maybe he did.
 

Harry Hooper

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MuppetAsteriskTalk said:
 
Schefter's report, or do you have any links with the Pats on record as saying this?
 
No, but guessing it's in a Curran or Reiss piece somewhere.
 

Granite Sox

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Brief intermission on discussion of the appeal transcript:
 
Section30 said:
Watching Mike & Mike today (I know, I know) where they have Schilling call in. They were intending to get his take on dipping in baseball. He gets off of baseball and into the Brady situation.
 
Paraphrasing, "This shows how much the NFL has been lying about what happened. I makes you wonder about some of the reports from the NFL over the last 10 years that have been false, how many careers and players have been hurt."
 
Uncomfortable looks from Greenberg and the fill in guy. They immediately change the subject back to dipping.
 
The "fill in guy" was Cris Carter.  Carter has been blinded with rage since the beginning of DFG and fundamentally has assumed guilt for Brady, Belichick, Kraft, and anyone else associated with the NEP, because SpyGate.
 
There is a fantastically amusing video of Carter losing his mind back in the Ballghazi thread.  He is representative of the irrational, gullible ex-jocks at the WWL.
 
Greenberg made an attempt to present snippets of the transcript that called the NFL into question early in the show, only to have Carter just slap him down (pardon the analogy).  Greenberg fawns over Carter, so he did not pursue any further debate.  I'm guessing Greenberg wet himself in fear when Blowhard Numero Uno stepped on it with Blowhard Numero Dos, hence the quick revert back to baseball.
 
Now... back to your regularly-scheduled program...
 

Hoya81

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Even if TB turns over his texts and they turned out benign like his emails, they still would have used the series of phone calls between TB-JJ and JJ-JM in the immediate aftermath as evidence of a coverup.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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PFT : Patriots suspended Jastremski, McNally at request of NFL
 
 
On the surface, the news from Adam Schefter of ESPN that the Patriots suspended John Jastremski and Jim McNally because the NFL requested the discipline makes plenty of sense. At a deeper level, the timing is curious — and it possibly becomes the first tangible evidence that winter is ending.
 
 
With the Patriots previously tight lipped on the topic of why they suspended their in-house equivalents of Beavis and Butthead, it’s fair to surmise that the news of the real reason for their suspension without pay was leaked to Schefter by the league. If so, it’s the first time throughout this saga that the league has leaked something that was favorable to the Patriots.
 
Schefter : 
 
 
For those asking why Patriots suspended two employees if those two did nothing wrong, as New England claims: NFL asked Pats to suspend them prior to discipline being handed down, per a league source in New York. New England obliged with the NFL's request.
 

Myt1

educated, civility-loving ass
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Mar 13, 2006
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I can't believe we have three pages of responses in a thread that could have been entitled, "Please post your favorite ingredients for Troll Soup."
 

lambeau

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Feb 7, 2010
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For God's sake, Yee should have recognized the warning sign that TB12 was about to be grilled by the guy who six months before was heading  Preet Bharara's Criminal Division. Not beanbag.
He couldn't see what a tossed cellphone would look like to an Organized Crime prosecutor? Nuts for TB to go in there with a sports agent for a lawyer.
 

crystalline

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Oct 12, 2009
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JP
AB in DC said:
 
3. I'm a lot less convinced that the NFL Front Office pushed Wells to reach the conclusions he did.  Kessler basically failed in trying to make the case otherwise.  I mean, yeah, he got Pash to admit that he edited the report, which explains some of the more egregious language in the report IMHO, but Wells was adamant that the conclusions were his alone, and I believe him.
 
 
 
No.
 
We know Wells was biased.  The Exponent report says so.  
 
From the Exponent appendix, I've extracted full paragraphs.  Bolding is mine.
 
 
 
Information provided by Paul, Weiss to Exponent indicates that the Patriots and the Colts inflated the game balls for the AFC Championship Game at or near 12.5 psig and 13.0 psig, respectively. Information from Walt Anderson (which was also provided by Paul, Weiss), the referee who checked the pressure of the game balls prior to the game, indicates that the game balls measured at or near 12.5 psig and 13.0 psig, respectively, when measured. Although there remains some uncertainty about which gauge was used to measure or set the game balls prior to the game, because we found the Logo Gauge to read at least 0.35 psig high in our experiments, while the Non-Logo Gauge reads closer to a calibrated gauge and most of the other gauges tested during the investigation, and because we found during our testing that the Non-Logo Gauge never produced a reading higher than the Logo Gauge, we conclude that it is more likely that the Non-Logo Gauge was used to measure the balls prior to the game. This conclusion is based on data provided to us by Paul, Weiss and data generated by our experiments.
 
The ranges listed above were based either on weather reports, measurements made by Exponent, or information provided by Paul, Weiss, and represent the lower and upper bounds for the realistic ranges of these factors. 
 
For the purpose of the experiments, Paul, Weiss informed Exponent that there was no plausible basis to believe that there had been tampering with the Colts footballs; therefore, the Colts footballs were used as a “control” group when evaluating and determining test parameters for the pertinent experiments. In other words, because we could reasonably assume that the Colts measurements collected at halftime on Game Day were the result only of natural causes,
 
 In sum, the data did not provide a basis for us to determine with absolute certainty whether there was or was not tampering as the analysis of such data ultimately is dependent upon assumptions and information that is not certain.
 
All of Exponent's conclusions are couched based on what Wells told them.  Their conclusions do not hold without the assumptions provided by Paul, Weiss.
 
So we know Wells was biased.  Because what he told Exponent influenced their results to "show" there must have been tampering.
 
 
Edit: In particular, Paul, Weiss gave Exponent the timing information -- how long the balls were inside before they were measured.  The conclusion of the report changes if that timing information was wrong. 
 
 
There is no question that Exponent and Wells (and now we know, Pash) were talking and they constructed this report to implicate the Patriots.  It is not believable for Wells to say that he was independent.
 

drbretto

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Apr 10, 2009
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Well, they didn't do "nothing" wrong. They were stealing equipment and talking shit. Which is funny because those two were so comfortable in the privacy of their text messages that they were so cavalier about talking about this, but despite ball pressure never being a thing before the AFC Championship, nothing between the two about illegally deflating anything. Weird.