#DFG: Canceling the Noise

[dcmissle]

 
Because he doesn't have to face judicial review, he accomplishes his goal of tarring the shit out of the Patriots and Tom Brady, and he can look magnanimous.

And because if he did eliminate TB suspension, the media partners would be thrilled -- and the dark side would come after him with pitchforks. And then people would say, if EVERYBODY is pissed, he must have called this pretty much down the middle.

But realistically, I think he cuts from 4 games to 2 and TB fights on.

 

[TomRicardo]

 
He is not the worst poster, but he is currently operating at maximum troll level.

 
Please he isn't even a quarter of DH3 on a slow day.
 
The guy is a Jets fan.  This is all they have.  But SoSH is in no way better if Berry is gone.  

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Change the bet to Berry refraining from posting in Pats-specific threads only.

 

[wutang112878]

I'm also assuming this was somewhere discussed, but was just talking with my dad who thinks Kraft caved to save his son longer term in the league, assuming he's fully taking over the team at some point, and it stays in the family, etc.

 
If we are looking really long-term, what are the chances Goodell is really back after this contract expires (which I believe is in 18 or 19)??  I'm thinking not good.  Between now and then I'm also pretty confident that Goodell screws something else up.  With that in mind, if Kraft put up a big stink right now come 2020 after Goodell is gone and was proven to be a bad commissioner, then would Jonathan really seem that bad?  Time heals a lot of wounds.

 

[PseuFighter]

 
If we are looking really long-term, what are the chances Goodell is really back after this contract expires (which I believe is in 18 or 19)??  I'm thinking not good.  Between now and then I'm also pretty confident that Goodell screws something else up.  With that in mind, if Kraft put up a big stink right now come 2020 after Goodell is gone and was proven to be a bad commissioner, then would Jonathan really seem that bad?  Time heals a lot of wounds.

 
Sure, but if he was going to go nuclear / full Al Davis, I think it would take a very long time for healing.

 

[Kenny F'ing Powers]

Change the bet to Berry refraining from posting in Pats-specific threads only.

 
What is wrong with you fucking people?
 
Stitch said it's only Goodell specific, Berry said he'd leave the site.
 
They have their bet, leave them the fuck alone.

 

[tims4wins]

It has been said before but I think it bears repeating: from the NFL's perspective, I don't think this was about "catching" Brady or the Pats. I think it was 100% a face-saving operation from the moment they realized they didn't understand the Ideal Gas Law in the day or two after the AFCCG, after the Mort leak and the letter to the Pats with the 10.1. They wanted to bury any and all evidence of wrong-doing on the part of the league office, for good reason. And Kraft's stepping down, as much as it sucks, is for the best of the league. The question is whether anything will come of how this was all handled. Unfortunately we are unlikely to ever find out since it will all be taken care of behind closed doors.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

Guys, if you want to have a referendum on SeanBerry, go do it in P&G or Shitty P&G. Please?

 
Thank you Rev. 
 
Stay on topic -- even if it's a hot mess.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

 
What is wrong with you fucking people?
 
Stitch said it's only Goodell specific, Berry said he'd leave the site.
 
They have their bet, leave them the fuck alone.

 
It was just a suggested compromise.  I have no skin in this game.

 

[SeanBerry]

For the record, I'm OK with the terms of the bet. I am that confident that there is no way Goodell vacates the whole suspension. Maybe a reduction but no way it goes from 4 to 0.
 
If it does, then that's a pretty heavy sign from the gods that I should probable spend more time working and less time at SoSH.

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

I believe in the sincerity of Robert Kraft, in bending over for "the good of the league." I think he really believes that is what he's doing. I also believe that he is living in a world, in a league, in an era, where he is a FOOL to think that's how it actually is in the NFL. 345 Park Ave. is laughing its collective ass off. At him. But hey, in some abstract way he's being visionary and "classy."

 

[Section15Box113]

Except we won the Super Bowl. The North Remembers, motherfucker.

 
And, if we can find any CBs, we can do it again.
 
That's the best revenge.  Better than the 1-in-100 (?) shot of Kraft's appeal being successful.

 

[Joshv02]

I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. When's Goodell's press conference?

Wednesday afternoon at the conclusion of the meetings. Already scheduled.  

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

For the record, I'm OK with the terms of the bet. I am that confident that there is no way Goodell vacates the whole suspension. Maybe a reduction but no way it goes from 4 to 0.
 
If it does, then that's a pretty heavy sign from the gods that I should probable spend more time working and less time at SoSH.

 
Last post on the bet. Please don't make me spend time to move every one of bets-related posts over to P&G. 

 

[Ferm Sheller]

 
And, if we can find any CBs, we can do it again.
 
That's the best revenge.  Better than the 1-in-100 (?) shot of Kraft's appeal being successful.

 
 
Everyone should relax about this.  I have it from a good source that BB has agreed not to raid the night shift at the Bilioxi Popeye's until after the colleges let out and the students go home for the summer.

 

[wutang112878]

 
Sure, but if he was going to go nuclear / full Al Davis, I think it would take a very long time for healing.

 
Would he have to go that bonkers though?  What if he just sued and made a few brief points about the NFLs awful handling of this and basically just embaress Goodell (which shouldnt be difficult to do in this situation).  I really think the threat of taking Goodell to court would have made Rog cave because I think there are no doubt some serious skeletons in that closet.  Like if they just got their hands on the text & email conversations between he and Vincent to show that Goodell really determined the punishment anyway and Vincnet was just the face of it, I would imagine the threat of that would be enough to scare Goodell.  
 
If Kraft looked the other 31 owners in the face at the owners meeting and said 'Look, I respect all of you and I dont want to sue you, but I want to sue Roger.  I have an asset that he is unfairly trying to do harm to and I cant stand by and allow him to turn this league into a tyranny.  I've stood by him in tough times and certainly feel as though he acted as an enemy towards me during all of this.  I simply cant stand by and allow this to happen to my franchise.'  Are they really going to put him in the Al Davis category?

 

[Harry Hooper]

Don't know who the jackass host was on ESPN Radio today, but listening in the car around 12:40 he was going on about Brady's denial of knowing longtimer McNally as clear evidence of guilt and the loss of the first-round pick as no big deal since the Pats trade down so much anyway.
 
 
 
 
That was quite sad to hear Kraft come across more as a guy more in love with being in the club (rubbing elbows with fellow owners, enjoying ready access to CBS bigwigs, attending film festivals, or whatever) than defending his team and its accomplishments. If there's no major adjustment to the team's penalties, no end to double-secret probation, or no flushing of multiple folks out of NFL HQ, such feeble boot licking is hard to swallow. 

 

[BroodsSexton]

And because if he did eliminate TB suspension, the media partners would be thrilled -- and the dark side would come after him with pitchforks. And then people would say, if EVERYBODY is pissed, he must have called this pretty much down the middle.

But realistically, I think he cuts from 4 games to 2 and TB fights on.

 
This is my preferred outcome at this point.  Kraft looks magnanimous without conceding defeat.  Goodell looks like a weasel trying to play both sides.  And the judge weighs in with findings of fact that blow Wells away.

 

[NatetheGreat]

 
Would he have to go that bonkers though?  What if he just sued and made a few brief points about the NFLs awful handling of this and basically just embaress Goodell (which shouldnt be difficult to do in this situation).  I really think the threat of taking Goodell to court would have made Rog cave because I think there are no doubt some serious skeletons in that closet.  Like if they just got their hands on the text & email conversations between he and Vincent to show that Goodell really determined the punishment anyway and Vincnet was just the face of it, I would imagine the threat of that would be enough to scare Goodell.  
 
If Kraft looked the other 31 owners in the face at the owners meeting and said 'Look, I respect all of you and I dont want to sue you, but I want to sue Roger.  I have an asset that he is unfairly trying to do harm to and I cant stand by and allow him to turn this league into a tyranny.  I've stood by him in tough times and certainly feel as though he acted as an enemy towards me during all of this.  I simply cant stand by and allow this to happen to my franchise.'  Are they really going to put him in the Al Davis category?

 
Every indication has been that the rest of the league has zero sympathy/support for Kraft in this. Perhaps if Kraft had made a habit of intervening on behalf of other organizations when Goodell decided to play the tyrant with them he might now have some allies, but he did the exact opposite. Beyond that, there is widespread dislike for the Patriots in general--a world in which the Patriots get fucked and the league skates on untouched is, from the perspective of every other owner and team, vastly preferable to one in which the Patriots involve the league in a lengthy and costly legal battle, especially if it involves digging up the sort of league "skeletons" that could potentially harm the value of their own investments

 

[Mugsy's Walk-Off Bunt]

I agree. The idea that being in any way aggressive toward what is almost certainly blatant BULLSHIT from the league automatically makes him Al Davis is a bit over the top. Isn't there a legit and well-reasoned middle ground here? It's pointless now, obviously, but I think that's what some of us were hoping for. In addition, I don't think there are many of us who disagree with the idea that this was, ultimately, a lost cause for RK in terms of retrieving public opinion or even the ridiculous penalties levied against the NEP. It's not a matter of short-sightedness or naiveté because I think we agree with the realities of what Kraft could have done. But I'm frustrated and pissed anyway.

Maybe the best way I can put it is this: Instead of Kraft playing the good soldier, it would've been nice if he'd opted to fight the good fight.

 

[Van Everyman]

I think about now, Goodell is stepping on Kraft's cloak trying to figure out where his body went.

Anybody with a brain knows that, recourse or not, Kraft had a good point. The league had no real evidence yet they convicted and dealt an incredibly harsh blow. Kraft's strength as an owner in the League has never derived primarily from his money or the success of his team on the field but from his character. That's the risk he faced by taking on the league, good case or not.

I wanted blood. But by doing what he did today, and demonstrating that he is not the league but "1 of 32" Kraft is in many ways strengthening his position going forward.

 

[PayrodsFirstClutchHit]

 
So this is what the thread has come to?
 
How many times do people have to say the logical (and non-emotional or fanfest) explanations:
 
1. Kraft determined that taking this further was going to end badly for both himself and the league
2. Kraft found out that something really did happen, and didn't want to risk being made to look like a fool
 
Like many others have said, we need to let this play out. Perhaps Brady's team will successfully challenge the findings, or perhaps Brady et. al. are in some (even indirect) way guilty and will settle on something that doesn't require more information to come out.
 
What this case boils down to is a Commissioner who probably overstepped his bounds and a League Office that very badly handled a lower level vendetta against one of their teams - neither of which are appealable.
 
Calling Kraft a "chicken shit" is the response of a 5 year old.

 
As much as the "Kraft is chickenshit" reaction is childish, denying that a large portion of the fanbase feels this ways is quite naive.  Expecting fans to react with some sort of reasoned response to a very emotional issue is not realistic.

 

[wutang112878]

Is there anyone that is more concerned about the 1st rounder than 4 games of Brady?  Put aside Brady's legacy, just think production on the field, and that 1st rounder really has a much larger value to the franchise especially with the Brady window closing.  That really bugs me just as much as the impact to Brady's legacy.

 

[AB in DC]

I live in New York, and the "Patriots/Brady are cheaters" thing is really widespread here. I mean, it always was post-spygate due to Jets fans and general NY-Boston animosity, but it definitely has reached that point where even people who clearly couldn't give a shit about football will chime in with a "oh yeah, aren't they in trouble for cheating or something?" if the Patriots come up. Maybe that's unique to New York, but judging by my facebook and twitter (granted, not exactly a scientific measure) I don't get the sense that it is.

 
And remind everyone, please -- where exactly is NFL Headquarters located?
 
 
Exactly.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Is there anyone that is more concerned about the 1st rounder than 4 games of Brady?  Put aside Brady's legacy, just think production on the field, and that 1st rounder really has a much larger value to the franchise especially with the Brady window closing.  That really bugs me just as much as the impact to Brady's legacy.

 
 
Yes, there's a multiyear impact to the missing #1.

 

[SeoulSoxFan]

 
And remind everyone, please -- where exactly is NFL Headquarters located?
 
 
Exactly.

 
Location of a certain HQ for any company matters very little in this regard, especially NYC. There's a Jets fanbase or Yankess fanbase, but there's no "NYC" fanbase. Not even close.

 

[dcmissle]

Is there anyone that is more concerned about the 1st rounder than 4 games of Brady?  Put aside Brady's legacy, just think production on the field, and that 1st rounder really has a much larger value to the franchise especially with the Brady window closing.  That really bugs me just as much as the impact to Brady's legacy.

It hurts to be sure, and they have lost two of them to the League in 9 years.

I don't know how to quantify it. Seems to me you're likely losing starting-level talent for 4 years. And if that individual plays well enough to warrant a second contract, you're losing first-rate NFL talent for another 4 years or more. It totally sucks.

As for TB, it depends. I think they would work through it, but if JG were just awful, it could hurt them pretty substantially in 2015.

 

[Reverend]

I think about now, Goodell is stepping on Kraft's cloak trying to figure out where his body went.

Anybody with a brain knows that, recourse or not, Kraft had a good point. The league had no real evidence yet they convicted and dealt an incredibly harsh blow. Kraft's strength as an owner in the League has never derived primarily from his money or the success of his team on the field but from his character. That's the risk he faced by taking on the league, good case or not.

I wanted blood. But by doing what he did today, and demonstrating that he is not the league but "1 of 32" Kraft is in many ways strengthening his position going forward.

 
Hmmmmm...

 

[Ferm Sheller]

 
 
Yes, there's a multiyear impact to the missing #1.

 
 
Good or bad (but mostly likely bad).  I mean, what if the pick is a guy who never develops and they forgo signing some high level FA in 2016 who plays the same position based on that pick?

 

[Dirty Sanchez Forever]

If Kraft wants to spend the fruits of his wife's father's money chasing acceptance as a cuckold at the feet of 31 NFL owners, it's certainly well within his right.  It's a shame he has to sacrifice the legacy of the greatest coach/QB combo in NFL history to do it though.

 

[KingPK]

So would anyone blame Brady if, if he sits any games this year, he just says "fuck this" and retires?  His reputation has been dragged through the mud already and he doesn't need the money or the shit that comes with it.  Tells Kraft to fuck himself for putting THE SHIELD above everything and tell Goddell to fuck himself for being the worst commissioner in pro sports.

 

[geoduck no quahog]

 
As much as the "Kraft is chickenshit" reaction is childish, denying that a large portion of the fanbase feels this ways is quite naive.  Expecting fans to react with some sort of reasoned response to a very emotional issue is not realistic.

 
I have higher expectations than you. No problem.
 
Let's put it this way, we all (including me) have jumped through hoops to demonstrate how the Wells Report cannot, beyond reasonable doubt, prove the Patriots guilty (albeit reasonable doubt is not the standard). On the other hand, if the Patriots did deflate the footballs, there's no data in the report that prevents that conclusion. Some might even argue that it takes more skepticism to declare the Pats innocent than vice-versa, based on the report...that more things would need to be explicable in a narrower band of possibilities.
 
I'll repeat myself - this is all about an unfair penalty based on a questionable conclusion instigated by sleazy people. Kraft agreed that fighting it would lead nowhere. Let's see what the NFLPA does, if anything.

 

[NortheasternPJ]

So would anyone blame Brady if, if he sits any games this year, he just says "fuck this" and retires?  His reputation has been dragged through the mud already and he doesn't need the money or the shit that comes with it.  Tells Kraft to fuck himself for putting THE SHIELD above everything and tell Goddell to fuck himself for being the worst commissioner in pro sports.

Yes. The take my ball and go home approach sucks. Show it on the field.

 

[Van Everyman]

 
Hmmmmm...

I was thinking that was less sacrifice and more long game:

 

[AB in DC]

 
Location of a certain HQ for any company matters very little in this regard, especially NYC. There's a Jets fanbase or Yankess fanbase, but there's no "NYC" fanbase. Not even close.

There is absolutely an NYC media culture.  That completely transcends sports allegiances.  And it is completely impossible for the people staffing the offices and making the decisions on NFL matters to be immune to this.
 
Goodell, Wells, and company are living in a bubble where Patriots = evil and the NFL is just bringing bad guys to justice. 

 

[NatetheGreat]

 
 
Good or bad (but mostly likely bad).  I mean, what if the pick is a guy who never develops and they forgo signing some high level FA in 2016 who plays the same position based on that pick?

 
So because they might blow the pick, not having a pick is a good thing? That doesn't make sense (especially since given the Pats' MO there's a decent chance this pick would have ended up being multiple picks in later rounds/future years)

 

[TheoShmeo]

I don't see Tom as a take my ball and go home sort of guy.
 
And I think he likes playing too much to do that.
 
And it would absolutely crush his legacy as no one likes a quitter.
 
Tom will be back and all this absolute nonsense will eventually fade.  Not entirely, but it will not be white hot like it is now. 

 

[Ferm Sheller]

Can we wait to see what comes of the Brady appeal before we roast Kraft on a skewer?   

 

[SeanBerry]

So would anyone blame Brady if, if he sits any games this year, he just says "fuck this" and retires?  His reputation has been dragged through the mud already and he doesn't need the money or the shit that comes with it.  Tells Kraft to fuck himself for putting THE SHIELD above everything and tell Goddell to fuck himself for being the worst commissioner in pro sports.

 
This post is so horrible. Just a terrible, terrible post.
 
He assumes Brady doesn't need the money? Wants to tell Kraft to "fuck himself"? Not mention Brady just not doing the thing he (by all accounts even his own) loves doing and is very good at still?
 
So many bizarre/awful posts today over here.

 

[Reverend]

I was thinking that was less sacrifice and more long game:

 
 
Are you familiar by any chance with a man named "Socrates"?

 

[djbayko]

 
This is my preferred outcome at this point.  Kraft looks magnanimous without conceding defeat.  Goodell looks like a weasel trying to play both sides.  And the judge weighs in with findings of fact that blow Wells away.

To add to this fantasy scenario...

Kraft promised Goodell that he would talk Brady into accepting (or already had Brady's acceptance of) a reduced 2 game suspension. Kraft instead urges Brady to fight on. Ths NFLPA exposes the NFL's disciplinary process in court, reducing the commissioner's power and leading to Goodell's eventual demise.

It's the long con.

 

[Harry Hooper]

Can we wait to see what come of the Brady appeal before we roast Kraft on a skewer?   

 
I don't see them as linked, and it looks like the seizing of picks and escalating penalties is something that will go on after Brady retires.

 

[Ferm Sheller]

 
So because they might blow the pick, not having a pick is a good thing? That doesn't make sense (especially since given the Pats' MO there's a decent chance this pick would have ended up being multiple picks in later rounds/future years)

 
 
I didn't say that.  

 

[wutang112878]

 
Every indication has been that the rest of the league has zero sympathy/support for Kraft in this. Perhaps if Kraft had made a habit of intervening on behalf of other organizations when Goodell decided to play the tyrant with them he might now have some allies, but he did the exact opposite. Beyond that, there is widespread dislike for the Patriots in general--a world in which the Patriots get fucked and the league skates on untouched is, from the perspective of every other owner and team, vastly preferable to one in which the Patriots involve the league in a lengthy and costly legal battle, especially if it involves digging up the sort of league "skeletons" that could potentially harm the value of their own investments

 
I am curious if their public and private support is different, but anyway lets run with this.  I do think there is a difference between being hated & outcast vs being supported.  All the other 31 might not support him in his legal pursuits, but I do think if he could genuinely say something like what I wrote I really dont know if they would all hate him.  The other 31 are not a bunch of choir boys and Kraft has really played a big role in making them all a lot of money.  Plus, from the leagues standpoint I dont think there is that much money to really lose as a result of a suit.  The vast majority of the money is coming in from the TV deals and those are locked in loaded.  Now there is a bunch of other variable spending but even as this league has become closer to the WWE than a real respected sports league the ratings have actually gotten better and better.  Fans just cant get enough of the NFL even if the league itself is a disgrace.  So are these guys really worried about being publicly embaressed?  Like the way Snyder's franchise is being trashed because of their name, or Jerry Jones looks like a scumbag because he is being extorted for taking inappropriate pictures?  

 

[djbayko]

It hurts to be sure, and they have lost two of them to the League in 9 years.

I don't know how to quantify it. Seems to me you're likely losing starting-level talent for 4 years. And if that individual plays well enough to warrant a second contract, you're losing first-rate NFL talent for another 4 years or more. It totally sucks.

As for TB, it depends. I think they would work through it, but if JG were just awful, it could hurt them pretty substantially in 2015.

You're also losing on the lottery ticket of selecting a superstar - a true diffrence maker a la Gronkowski.

 

[NatetheGreat]

So would anyone blame Brady if, if he sits any games this year, he just says "fuck this" and retires?  His reputation has been dragged through the mud already and he doesn't need the money or the shit that comes with it.  Tells Kraft to fuck himself for putting THE SHIELD above everything and tell Goddell to fuck himself for being the worst commissioner in pro sports.

 
I dunno about "blame", but I would think it was kinda silly on his part. I mean, which sounds better "after being suspended for allegations of cheating, Tom Brady retired and never played again" or "after being suspended for allegations of cheating, Tom Brady came back and kicked a ton of ass, demonstrating that the alleged cheating was a nonfactor in his onfield brilliance?" Hell, forget which sounds better--which of those sounds like something Tom Brady would do? To me, the "quit out of bitterness and never play again" just doesn't sound anything like how Brady has ever handled himself 

 

[Reverend]

 
This post is so horrible. Just a terrible, terrible post.
 
He assumes Brady doesn't need the money? Wants to tell Kraft to "fuck himself"? Not mention Brady just not doing the thing he (by all accounts even his own) loves doing and is very good at still?
 
So many bizarre/awful posts today over here.

 
It depends how you read it.
 
Do I think he will do it? No. Do I want him to do it? Probably not.

But would I blame him if he did, especially if he issued a statement about Fuck you, NFL--this is my honor? Certainly not. Would I think it's the stuff of legend if he did it? Fucking A, yeah.

 

[OnWisc]

I think about now, Goodell is stepping on Kraft's cloak trying to figure out where his body went.

Anybody with a brain knows that, recourse or not, Kraft had a good point. The league had no real evidence yet they convicted and dealt an incredibly harsh blow. Kraft's strength as an owner in the League has never derived primarily from his money or the success of his team on the field but from his character. That's the risk he faced by taking on the league, good case or not.

I wanted blood. But by doing what he did today, and demonstrating that he is not the league but "1 of 32" Kraft is in many ways strengthening his position going forward.

Hopefully he doesn't strengthen his position much more or the Patriots won't have to show up at future drafts until Saturday. For a reportedly powerful owner, Kraft seems pretty willing to let the commissioner treat his franchise like a doormat.

 

[nolasoxfan]

And because if he did eliminate TB suspension, the media partners would be thrilled -- and the dark side would come after him with pitchforks. And then people would say, if EVERYBODY is pissed, he must have called this pretty much down the middle.

But realistically, I think he cuts from 4 games to 2 and TB fights on.

So, it’s pragmatist Roger (eliminate) vs. narcissist Roger (cut to two).  

 

[Ferm Sheller]

You're also losing on the lottery ticket of selecting a superstar - a true diffrence maker a la Gronkowski.

 
Maybe I'm Roethlisbergering this, but I think you're arguing away from the importance of a first round pick by using Gronk as your example.  How about Vince?  Mayo?