#DFG: Canceling the Noise
- Thread starter nattysez
- Start date
[edit: Sorry, too slow. Please ignore.]
If Bedard's tweet is right, then Goodell may realize that the NFLPA would probalby succeed in the courts. So better to lose the battle but win the war.
wibi said:
If Bedard's tweet is right, then Goodell may realize that the NFLPA would probalby succeed in the courts. So better to lose the battle but win the war.
Am I the only one who sure as hell hopes this caving had nothing to do with reducing Brady's suspension because, if so, Kraft just folded for no reason. The odds aren't awful that Brady's suspension would be reduced on appeal or even vacated in court. Please tell me Robert didn't fall for that head-fake.
JimBoSox9 said:
A few things here...
I agree with the premise, and the likely sequence of events. Kraft gets mad, knows there's probably nothing he can do, OKs the website out of anger/frustration, and then gets reined back in as it becomes clear there's not much further to go with it, ending with the statement he makes today. That still doesn't explain why this statement is so spineless. He doesn't deny wrongdoing. He doesn't disagree with the penalty. He doesn't even mention Tom Brady's name - likely due to the pending appeal. There's a lot of room between that statement and taking a wrecking ball, and he used none of it to acknowledge or share the frustration and helplessness that his fanbase is experiencing.
But secondly, yeah there's a "real cost" to becoming an ownership pariah... but I'm not quite sure what aspects of that cost would be relevant to us as fans. Why should we be rooting for Kraft to be an ownership insider when apparently that means absolutely nothing at the exact moment where you'd hope it meant something. He couldn't or wouldn't protect the Pats from being railroaded by Goodell in a historic way that has huge implications for us in the way people see our team and even directly on the roster, and yet we're somehow happy that he's taking the road that allows him to stay in the good graces of other owners? Why? How on Earth do we think that will benefit any of us as fans of the Patriots? Why should I give a shit if Kraft keeps his power broker status but he can't protect our team from bullshit like this?
This is fucking ridiculous, anyone that knows Sean and I knows we rarely see eye to eye, but he is no where close to the worst poster on this site or even this part of SoSH.cheekydave said:
Well the original bet seems vague, if we are taking a strictly "original intent/textualism" approach here.
I'm also assuming this was somewhere discussed, but was just talking with my dad who thinks Kraft caved to save his son longer term in the league, assuming he's fully taking over the team at some point, and it stays in the family, etc.
HomeBrew1901 said:
I was thinking about starting a thread about bets in backwash, but I agree with this sentiment.
I like betting. But the key is for the bets to have a positive outcome (for charity) regardless of who wins. A longtime member leaving the site is not a positive outcome under any circumstances.
Maybe we should have a separate thread for Brady's appeal. There are a number of reasons why the NFLPA and Brady can win.
1) Did Vincent have the authority to issue the punishment?
2) If Vincent issued the punishment on Goodell's behest, is Goodell then a fair arbitrator?
3) Can players be punished for the perception of being guilty?
4) Can players be forced to share personal communications with the league?
What else is there?
1) Did Vincent have the authority to issue the punishment?
2) If Vincent issued the punishment on Goodell's behest, is Goodell then a fair arbitrator?
3) Can players be punished for the perception of being guilty?
4) Can players be forced to share personal communications with the league?
What else is there?
That's what I am asking. Are we going by the first text here or by the "revised betting parameters".
I would be pretty fucking shocked if the suspension was dropped entirely. It really just doesn't seem like RG's MO, and especially now that the Patriots as a team have dropped their appeal I can't see him even admitting the suspension was unwarranted. Lowering the suspension provided Brady is "suitably apologetic"/admits wrongdoing? Sure, that lets him look merciful while also basically forcing Brady to admit that RG was right. But just straight-up admitting the entire suspension was a mistake? Never gonna happen.
NatetheGreat said:
My guess is that the suspension is reduced to 2 games on appeal to the NFL and reduced to 0 games on appeal to the courts.
Edit: beaten to it by a page. Apparently was further behind on the thread than I thought and y'all were already on the case.
Carry on.
Carry on.
For the record, I think there is 0% chance the full suspension gets drop on first appeal. This will have to go full Vilma-BountyGate for Brady to get out of all of it.
Just came out of a meeting to see this shit? What a fucking joke. Kraft could not have handled this any worse. Sickening.
Yeah, but its actually even worse. Revenues are (not adjusted) up about $14b cumulative vs. baseline (roughly $6B per year) and his pay was about $122mm over that time. So, he actually was paid closer to 1% of the increase. The numbers are rough, but that's about the scale. People want to look at cumulative pay, then the baseline is against cumulative revenue over-prior-baseline.moondog80 said:
RIrooter09 said:
He is not the worst poster, but he is currently operating at maximum troll level.
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw 47m47 minutes ago
Roger Goodell's contract as commissioner reportedly runs to March 2019. If you're interested in replacing Goodell, I'd contact Robert Kraft.
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Dan Roche @RochieWBZ 28m28 minutes ago
@McCannSportsLaw Give u props Michael - u said Kraft really had no choice but to try to petition RG for reduction but wouldn't take to court
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Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw 5m5 minutes ago
@RochieWBZ Thanks, Dan. I think we're going to see Kraft actively demand changes and more due process in how the league punishes teams.
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Chris Pollone @ChrisPollone 4m4 minutes ago
@McCannSportsLaw @RochieWBZ Despite what Schefter & Bedard say, there has to be quid pro quo on Brady, right??
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Dan Roche @RochieWBZ 1m1 minute ago
@ChrisPollone @McCannSportsLaw I would think so -
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Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw 9s9 seconds ago
@RochieWBZ @ChrisPollone I agree, that would seem like the most likely scenario. But so far NFLPA isn't acting as if a deal is in place.
dc,dcmissle said:
A big thanks to you and the rest of the SOSH lawyers, and Red Averages as well (who I believe said he INAL) for all the insight, especially the last few weeks. Your initially take turned out to be correct. Brady may have a case, but teams are at the mercy of the commissioner.
RedOctober3829 said:
Michael McCann @McCannSportsLaw 47m47 minutes ago
Roger Goodell's contract as commissioner reportedly runs to March 2019. If you're interested in replacing Goodell, I'd contact Robert Kraft.
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@McCannSportsLaw Give u props Michael - u said Kraft really had no choice but to try to petition RG for reduction but wouldn't take to court
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@RochieWBZ Thanks, Dan. I think we're going to see Kraft actively demand changes and more due process in how the league punishes teams.
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@McCannSportsLaw @RochieWBZ Despite what Schefter & Bedard say, there has to be quid pro quo on Brady, right??
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@ChrisPollone @McCannSportsLaw I would think so -
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@RochieWBZ @ChrisPollone I agree, that would seem like the most likely scenario. But so far NFLPA isn't acting as if a deal is in place.
Honestly, this all being some kind of wink-wink deal to take the heat off Brady sounds really dumb. The team never had much leverage to begin with, short of going full Al Davis which it was super obvious wasn't going to happen. And given that this entire thing is basically about image management and RG trying to act like the sheriff, I can't see this all resulting in RG suddenly announcing that he's decided to drop the entire Brady suspension for no reason (which is what dropping the suspension based on a backroom deal would entail). And if Kraft did decide to fold on the mere hope of lenience for Brady in the appeal/legal process, that's frankly stupid of him, both because RG has no actual incentive to abide by his side of things, and because Brady stands a good chance of seeing his suspension reduced regardless.
All this did was put RG in a stronger position going forward, at least in terms of public perception, because most people will interpret it as the Patriots admitting culpability
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
And this is especially true because..
It's NOT Goodell that's out to get the Patriots. It's a group of some inside the NFL that's looking for other traps to set, other opportunities to play gotcha.
Agreeing to cut a deal with Goodell does not get to the source of the issue.
I thought the best outcome (albeit 0.00001% change) is that the "internal investigation" (LOL, right?) revealed some of the culprits and they get reprimanded or reassigned, if not outright fired. Nope. none of that happened.
Kraft looked like a beaten man and we all lost along with him.
Count me as disappointed in this wimpy - in both thought and deed - response from Robert Kraft. Really disappointing - as dispiriting as the trophy speech was inspiring.
I live in New York, and the "Patriots/Brady are cheaters" thing is really widespread here. I mean, it always was post-spygate due to Jets fans and general NY-Boston animosity, but it definitely has reached that point where even people who clearly couldn't give a shit about football will chime in with a "oh yeah, aren't they in trouble for cheating or something?" if the Patriots come up. Maybe that's unique to New York, but judging by my facebook and twitter (granted, not exactly a scientific measure) I don't get the sense that it is.
DrewDawg said:
No, it's quoted by Mike fucking Freeman.
These "other officials" think Patriots cheated & Kraft admitted it, and that statement was just to save face.
See, you lose the fanbase, and you don't ever win any ounce of respect from the fuckers who deserve the punishment.
And we have SeanBerry making his oh-so-predictable appearance to egg shit on. Like clockwork.
GraysonGrandeGonads said:
So this is what the thread has come to?
How many times do people have to say the logical (and non-emotional or fanfest) explanations:
1. Kraft determined that taking this further was going to end badly for both himself and the league
2. Kraft found out that something really did happen, and didn't want to risk being made to look like a fool
Like many others have said, we need to let this play out. Perhaps Brady's team will successfully challenge the findings, or perhaps Brady et. al. are in some (even indirect) way guilty and will settle on something that doesn't require more information to come out.
What this case boils down to is a Commissioner who probably overstepped his bounds and a League Office that very badly handled a lower level vendetta against one of their teams - neither of which are appealable.
Calling Kraft a "chicken shit" is the response of a 5 year old.
wibi said:
Because he doesn't have to face judicial review, he accomplishes his goal of tarring the shit out of the Patriots and Tom Brady, and he can look magnanimous.
fairlee76 said:
You know who gives a shit? Goodell. And the so-called "prominent" media members who help to set (perpetrate?) the narrative. I say the ratio of talking heads who even gave it a fair look (no matter their opinion) runs about 1:10 in disfavor of the Pats.
E5 Yaz said:
I'm going halfsies.
Stitch01 said:
Ballsy. I don't think TB gets his suspension to zero until it goes to court.
Average Reds said:
This wouldn't be the first time Berry left the site, and I'd say that was a positive outcome for all involved.
NatetheGreat said:
It's kind of perverse that so many people have said the suspension was set at four so it could be dropped to two on appeal which is the right outcome because that notion actually underscores the fact that the NFL's disciplinary process is bullshit. You don't evaluate institutions based on agreeing with outcomes, but on the process.
NatetheGreat said:
I kinda like the fact that the old canard that Bostonians are obsessed with New York and New Yorkers don't give a shit about Boston has been laid to rest, actually.
SeoulSoxFan said:
Or a time lock.
