Cora: Pivetta is going to the bullpen as a multi-inning reliever
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He's also been good against Arizona, the Yankees three times, Cincinnati, Toronto, and had a schizophrenic outing against Miami where he gave up 2 runs in 3 innings and struck out 7.
Also is Bernardino of Italian or Hispanic descent? Was this the first Italian combined shutout in Sox history?
Also is Bernardino of Italian or Hispanic descent? Was this the first Italian combined shutout in Sox history?
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Sure, but you can only play the team that the schedule puts out on the field against you. We are done with the A's this week, so when do we play Kansas City?
Soon! And 7 times!Sure, but you can only play the team that the schedule puts out on the field against you. We are done with the A's this week, so when do we play Kansas City?
Speaking of that, does Pedro's six inning relief stint in game 5 of the 1999 ALDS rank as the single greatest relief appearance of all time? Let's check the boxes:
- All-or-nothing, deciding game 5 of the series
- Enters the game with it tied 8-8
- Sox' pitchers (Saberhagen & Lowe) had been absolutely battered by Cleveland
- Facing an all-time great lineup - here's who Cleveland had: Thome (HOFer), RAlomar (HOFer), Vizquel (3x All-star), Fryman (5x All-star), Justice (3x All-star), Lofton (6x All-star), Manny (12x All-star), Baines (HOFer), Cordero (All-star), SAlomar (6x All-star), Baerga (3x All-star), Sexson (2x All-star)
- Six innings of shutout, NO HIT, ball, striking out 8
And all of this with a bad back that allowed him to only throw 90 miles an hour (he could hit 99 when healthy).
Two others come to mind without doing research:
Moe Drabowsky (though Game 1, not an elimination games)
1966 World Series by Baseball Almanac (baseball-almanac.com)
Nolan Ryan pitched 7 innings of relief and had 2 hits in the 1969 NLCS clincher. (3-0 series win, so also not an elimination game)
1969 National League Championship Series (NLCS) Game 3, Atlanta Braves vs New York Mets: October 6, 1969 | Baseball-Reference.com
We've had this discussion a few times in the past and every time there is no perfect parallel. In others, the stakes weren't higher, or the lineup wasn't as terrifying, or the relief appearance didn't last nearly as long. The era too mattered....it was the legit height of the steroid era where the average ERA was around 5.00.
It's too bad that team had so many other flaws, because Pedro was so ridiculous. The only thing missing from Pedro's career resume was to see him pitch at his peak in the World Series....we'll have to settle for peak Pedro in the ALDS/ALCS and then merely "good Pedro" in his final start with the Red Sox (7 shutout innings on the road @STL in game 3 of 2004 WS).
Not to take away from Pivetta's awesome appearance last night....he looked like Pedro, even if it WAS the Oakland A's.
This article - https://www.mlb.com/news/greatest-postseason-relief-performances - says Pedro had a shoulder injury, not a back injury.
There are some other candidates in the article other than the ones already mentioned.
But I'll take Pedro's any day.
Maybe a side-discussion... but I'm always floored by how difficult it is to 1. Just be a good ML pitcher and then 2. how much more difficult it is to be consistently good. Just the slightest little change can turn a dominant curve (or any pitch) into a meatball and how difficult it is to pick up on that (as the pitcher throwing it).
Like the difference between good Pivetta and bad Pivetta is just grip? release point? all these little things being incrementally off/on.....
Like the difference between good Pivetta and bad Pivetta is just grip? release point? all these little things being incrementally off/on.....
I think that goes for any high-level athlete. You see a great basketball player go 2/15 followed up by a 11/18 game. A golfer in the first round of a tournament shoots a 64 then the next day shoots a 78.
Being able to fix things mid game/match/etc. is what is- for me- fun to watch. Jayson Tatum Game 6 vs Philly. Kutter Crawford the other day was lost for the first 3 innings and then found the mechanical flaw around the 4th and cruised. A tennis player loses the first set 6-1 and then sweeps the rest.
Thanks, this is why I can't really accept a lot of the negativity you see out there (beyond SOSH) about how someone sucks/is an idiot/etc. They're actually all the elite of the elite, and the top guys are more consistent or have some special edge or both. That's why it's not stupid to keep Ort -- what if he figures out that last little adjustment? Even on a team level, the differences are still often pretty thin across the roster. Related: the recent emphasis on hyperathleticism is not a coincidence. It's easier to spot and predict/project than slight improvements in LD% or spin rates.
I had a similar thought watching the A’s last night. We’re all talking about how irredeemably terrible they are, and then Allen and Díaz made an incredible defensive play to force a runner at third. And it’s like, these guys are terrible MLB players on a historically bad team, but they are *fantastic* at baseball.
It's tougher for pitchers to correct flaws once the flaws start to develop. Batters can work out their kinks in the batting cage, find the flaw, and through repetition work it out to the point that muscle memory takes over. A large part of practice is to make a lot of these thing reflexive rather than conscious decisions.
There are a lot of moving parts when it comes to pitching. Any one kink could cause a velocity drop; the break on the curve to not break; etc. Pitching coaches can observe mechanical issues (like release point), but things like grip issues are difficult to detect and the only way to work those out are through bullpen sessions where you need to go all out. Those have limitations into how much you can throw especially if the grip issue isn't obvous, otherwise you're impacting your availability.
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100%. I always think of this when fans are upset at a player in any sport for not performing. These guys are the top players on their little league teams, travel ball teams, high school, college....all the way until the pros. They are far better than most of us will ever hope to be so it's hard for me to see them as scrubs.
Nothing a fan can say is funnier than "I could do better than that" about a struggling/slumping professional athlete. No, no you couldn't.
Here in this forum we see people all the time say things like, "He is bad at baseball." LOL no he isn't. He's literally a world class baseball player.
I know they're just comparing them to BETTER major leaguers, but still, it's funny.
How about fans saying they could be better than that stupid GM? I'd love to confront those people about what they do and how I could do their job in my sleep better than them. But of course they are mostly just permanently miserable people so it's not worth it.
Baseball isn't a game of inches, it's a game of millimeters.
Anyway, back to Pivetta, no sign that they will move him from the pen so I guess this Opener/Pivetta thing will continue. Bernardino is perfect for this, not merely because his name also sounds Italian.
I think (or at least really really hope) that the "relative to other players" is implied in every "he sucks!"
The only time I say that is when the player hits into a rally-killing double play because my worst case is striking out (there's no way I could even catch up to an MLB changeup).
So when I attended Red Sox fantasy camp about ten years ago, the highlight of the week is the camper teams getting to play a 3 inning game against the teams made up of former pros. Most of the pros are in their mid 50s at the youngest, some guys are much older than that (Rick Wise was there at age 68). Most of the campers are in their 30s and 40s, although some were older.
After a week's worth of games a lot of the campers figured they were pretty good ballplayers, and they might be able to give the pros a game; after all, they're all old and broken down. And then Bill Campbell goes out to play....shortstop, of all things, and looks like Ozzie Smith out there. Dave Henderson hit a ball off me that went nearly 500 feet; because our CFer was literally playing at the CF wall it was an out. Oil Can was burnt out as hell and was still snapping off sliders you had zero prayer of hitting.
So no. You are not better than any pro.
Remember Robert Stock? Pitched for the Sox in 2020 for a bit, looked like a dumpy oil furnace technician. He's good on Twitter. Anyway, he's had a very marginal MLB career, negative WAR for his career, and last night he threw a no-hitter for the Long Island Ducks where he reached 95 MPH in every inning and touched 98 a couple of times.
He's an incredible baseball player, and yet the pitchers for the A's are all better than him, and they stink compared to the rest of MLB. It's insane.
Better? No. But I think I could give the Red Sox what they got from Caleb Hamilton at the plate this year. 0-5 with 5 strikeouts seems doable. I'd just have to get in at DH somehow, because I wouldn't survive long enough to get an at bat if I had to catch.
Untrue. I can think of three things I could do at least as well as your average MLB player:
1. Swinging strike (as batter)
2. Called strike (as batter)
3. Balk
OK but in the case of the worst MLB player the pitcher still has to expend effort into finishing his pitches. Against any of us they could soft-toss it past us and save themselves for a real hitter. Our best hope would be that doing so would throw the pitcher off his rhythm.
It’s a well-taken point. Still, though: I’m a Bloom apologist, but I am waaaay closer to being able to run a team as well as Chaim Bloom than I am to playing SS like Nick Allen or pitching like Sam Noll.
You (generic) may be closer, but only in the sense that standing on a chair gets you closer to the moon.
If you don’t know I’m useless there one chance I outproduce an actual mlb player: there’s no way I’m getting out of the way of an errant pitch. I mean I’d try out of reflex and self preservation, but that’s all happening way faster than my brain connects to the extremities.
I don't know what other pitchers are having a great month of July, but let's throw Nick's hat in the ring for pitcher of the month (still more appearances possible, I know).
Games 5 W 3 L 0 IP 21 H 9 R 4 ER 3 BB 6 SO 33 SO/9 14.1 WHIP 0.714 ERA 1.29
Games 5 W 3 L 0 IP 21 H 9 R 4 ER 3 BB 6 SO 33 SO/9 14.1 WHIP 0.714 ERA 1.29
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I picked him to have the most W’s for the season…. It’s still unlikely but if he does, it’d be in a completely unexpected way. Im real glad they didn’t trade him…. Guys that can stay healthy are a way undervalued asset
Yep, he's kind of like the current day Bronson Arroyo. League average pitching at volume has a lot of value.
Somewhat ironic that if the injured starters return, Pivetta might again be a man without a country.
Also possible they continue with the bullpen games to keep everyone healthy and let Pivetta, Sale, Whitlock and Houck all take 3-4 inning chunks until they're certain Sale is healthy.
I believe it's scorer's discretion only if the lead is taken while the starter is still in the game but he doesn't complete five innings. Otherwise, wins are awarded to the pitcher who was in the game when the winning run was scored.
The scorer can make changes. For example if a pitcher (not the starter) finishes an inning down 6-3 (and he allowed 4 runs to score thus giving up the lead) and then the team comes back and takes the lead next inning he may not award him the win.
You're right, but he's been WAY better than league average in this relief role though.
My golf game has been consistent this year and I'm playing at a 5.3 cap. I have multiple rounds around par. I should either be on the PGA Tour or I would get my ass kicked at every level of professional golf (PGA, LPGA, DP World, Senior Tour, Korn Ferry, etc.).
The professionals do the routine things consistently exceptional whereas almost all of us do not.
I have a buddy who has attended Red Sox fantasy camp for each of the past 10 years or so, maybe SJH knows him (my buddy owns the Clam Shack in Kennebunkport, ME). Anyway, he had a similar story. Two of the younger guys on his team played college ball (Div II I think) and thought they were going to be able to handle the old, broken down pros. One of them even jokingly suggested so to Mike Timlin, of all people. Yes, you can predict what happened. Timlin buzzed him high and inside on the first pitch, which was still around 90 MPH. Then Timlin struck him out on 3 pitches. Guy didn't have a chance.
In The Only Rule is It Has to Work, where a couple internet baseball writers try to help and independent league team, there's a section describing how different a major league player is from the ones they can get. They were expecting they'd have some guys who could run but not hit, or that defense would be decent. But the average home to first time in the league was almost Bengi Molina slow. And nobody had the arm to make a throw on a dribbler or grounder into the hole. The league was mostly made up of undrafted college players, so they had been playing at a decently high level, but it's just not even close to MLB level in even the most basic of skills.
That's what I thinking in the Oakland game where he struck out 13 in relief...."he has turned into Pedro as a long reliever".
He's done it against everyone too, it was just the most ridiculous against that A's lineup. It is obviously not sustainable, but even if he regresses to a 3.50-4.00 guy who can give you 5-6 after an opener, we'd take that all year long.
Regardless, it has been fun to watch. The hitters genuinely look clueless up there against him for the most part right now.