Chris Sale (plus $17mil) traded to Atlanta for Vaughn Grissom
- Thread starter Bosoxman2004
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I mean, I'm an idiot, but I'm hopeful.
You want to get nuts? Let's get nuts. --- we now include Kenley in a trade, move Martin or Houck to closer, and we have plenty of money to get two front end starters and someone like Teoscar Hernandez.
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This could also be a 'Breslow/Bailey pitching academy' move. Giolito maybe can be fixed. Sale's elbow probably looks like Pearl Harbor on December 8. He is what he is at this point.
While true, it’s also a sobering reality check at what it costs to acquire pitching in this marketplace.
It's a mini version of the Scherzer and Verlander moves for the Mets.
Send more $ than needed to get to the current "break even" value of the player (I do think 1/10M for Sale and a 20M 2025 team option is good value in a vacuum for Atl).
In exchange, you essentially buy a better prospect than you would otherwise get. Will come down to how Grissom does, but I like the bat (a bit concerned he won't even stick at 2B though, he's a big guy)
Sale is a dink, yet a fierce competitor. I wouldn't be surprised to see a great season from him. His failure has been bad luck.
I don't know anything about this kid, but seems exciting. That seems novel for this organization.
I don't know anything about this kid, but seems exciting. That seems novel for this organization.
What a difference a day makes. This is an incredible trade. It gets rid of a burned roster spot with Sale (who could have good season but lets be honest we were going to try to trade him at the deadline) for a legitimate 2B prospect with six years of service time. This is a guy who can give you Dustin Pedroia lite production which is damn good. Not a ton of strike outs, good eye, decent defense, and decent base running. It gives you a solid back of the line up right handed bat possible 2 hitter if everything goes really well.
Agreed, we would have taken a Sale for 2023 Mo Vaughn trade at the deadline. This is something that should have happened a while ago. Well done Breslow.
It's not definitive, but this trade seemingly supports the story that Bloom balked on going through with a Sale trade that was available.
I like this move a ton, regardless of how Sale does this season or whether Grissom ends up being a starter here or part of a package. Bloom might still be GM if he’d done this last season.
Which also suports the theory (mine, anyway) that he told the FO they could contend when Sale returned, and got fired because its hard to be more wrong. (There really is no other rational reason he wouldnt have made the trade.)
But who will be our opening day starter??
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2023/09/29/alex-cora-chris-sale-boston-red-sox-opening-day-2024/#:~:text=The Red Sox will open,on things,” Sale said.
Snark aside, this strikes me as a solid move. Give up a distressed asset with no long-term upside for a good prospect with multiple years of team control. But it seems premature to pencil in Grissom as the Red Sox 2nd basemen in 2024. Per Ian Cundall on X:
https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2023/09/29/alex-cora-chris-sale-boston-red-sox-opening-day-2024/#:~:text=The Red Sox will open,on things,” Sale said.
Snark aside, this strikes me as a solid move. Give up a distressed asset with no long-term upside for a good prospect with multiple years of team control. But it seems premature to pencil in Grissom as the Red Sox 2nd basemen in 2024. Per Ian Cundall on X:
Have to call this deal a win. Rids us of a very questionable roster spot(just can’t trust him to stay healthy for any stretch of time anymore), returns a controlled, solid prospect at a position of need , who can either contribute this year, or be used as capital for a future deal. That value and flexibility is well worth the $$ we are sending to the braves. Well done Craig.
Mariners have Ty France. Now if the Sox showed up to the door with Yoshida and a bag of cash...
100%. Bloom never makes this deal. These are the sort of deals he should have been making. This is the best deal since Dombrowski left.
This deal makes a lot of sense for both sides particularly if the Red Sox think he's a middle infielder and the Braves do not.
I think their all star second baseman with the best contract in baseball might have had something to do with that.
With you a 100% on this. A fiery competitor who could be mind boggling dominating at times. Frustrating injuries pulled him down and us along with them. It’s business and nothing personal. The man helped win a World Series. I’ll be pulling for him with the Braves!
So, the Braves get Sale on a Kluber-deal (1 year, $10M) and the Red Sox get their starting 2B of the future (hopefully). Feels like a solid trade for both teams and makes a lot of sense based on where both teams currently are in their respective GFIN cycles.
Much more impressed with today's announcement than yesterday's. Removing Sale is addition by subtraction - it's got to be impossible to think about how to build a rotation that includes him, having no idea of you'll get 5 or 25 or 25 starts out of him. Sure hope Grissom can handle second. Hard to imagine a better way of solving two problems at once if he can.
As an aside, do those who think Sale is one of MLB's biggest jerks because he wouldn't get vaccinated feel the same way about Tanner Houck?
As an aside, do those who think Sale is one of MLB's biggest jerks because he wouldn't get vaccinated feel the same way about Tanner Houck?
Same. No real issues with him. Was pretty critical of him during Covid, but have mellowed out on that to a large degree. The clubhouse tv thing in Worcester was a nothing burger in my view. I sometimes found his accountable tough guy persona a little much, but the guy always competed hard, was dominant when healthy, and contributed significantly to a world title here. I wish him well, but suspect his age and body type will lead to more diminishing returns from here on out.
Loved Sale's personality and attitude. It's what every ball player should be like. Injuries did him in.
I always thought it made them idiots, not jerks. (I'd need more info to decide if they were jerks.)YMMV.
I have a soft spot for guys who seem to care as much as we do, and he was that kind of player.
Also like the part where he helped us win a WS. If kimbrel had come in to close, that game would still be going
Yes! As an aside, he’s the last of the 2018 team to go against Cora and attend the White House ceremony. He and JD Martinez were the most aglow about it. But also Benintendi, Eovaldi, Barnes, a few others.
Well, it's a negative for both, in my opinion, but I don't think Sale is one of MLB's biggest jerks, just expendable for a variety of reasons.
(Vigorous nodding)
This is exactly the type of move I’ve been begging for them to execute. Yes, as you noted time will tell how much value Grissom brings, but it’s another way to splash your money around this year to bring future value. I guess Bloom did something similar with the JBJ trade but he stuffed it both on the prospects and then by needing JBJ.
Weird to think that at least on some level it feels like addition by subtraction, even though I hold no ill will towards him and he genuinely seemed to do everything he could possibly do. It’s more that it’s one less question mark to manage around, in a sea of back of rotation questions.
I will add two points to this litany, one semi-rational and one irrational (so sue me):
(1) Semi-rational: Sale loves to talk about being accountable and working hard, then hops on a bicycle and breaks his wrist. If you are made of glass and have already been nursing injuries all season, do not get on a fucking bicycle in Boston of all places. That was indefensible.
(2) Irrational: Mr. Accountability had the opportunity to really show his stuff and opt out of his contract last off-season after getting money for nothing from the Sox for three years. At the very least, he could've done a soft opt-out by opting out and immediately signing a restructured deal to add deferred money, make some of the money contingent on innings pitched, etc. Instead, he just opted-in and that was that. I understand that the MLBPA would've had kittens if he'd done this, there's no moral reason for him to opt out given that the Sox knew the risks when they idiotically signed him to that extension, and no athlete should give money away to billionaire owners. That's why it's an irrational dislike.
And now I never have to talk about him again. Saints be praised.
To me that's about the biggest gain. The questions marks about availability make it harder to answer the questions about talent.
It might be irrational but I still say Jeter was a shit teammate because he didn’t move off of short for Arod so you’re not the only one with a similar take.
The interesting thing that we'll have to find out about this trade is what Breslow sees Grissom as, and how he fits into our plans.
You have Story entrenched at SS for the foreseeable future, with Yorke and Mayer on their way. Maybe Yorke gets dealt - or we're able to unload Story at some point, but I think it's also somewhat likely Grissom is going to hold down 2B for 2024, then maybe shift to LF or something.
Also - I think this was an absolute steal on Craig's part. I don't think flipping six-years of Grissom for one year of Burnes or Bieber is the right move, for that matter. This team isn't in a position to give up MLB ready prospects for one year of GFIN. That's a fast track back to October 2019.
You have Story entrenched at SS for the foreseeable future, with Yorke and Mayer on their way. Maybe Yorke gets dealt - or we're able to unload Story at some point, but I think it's also somewhat likely Grissom is going to hold down 2B for 2024, then maybe shift to LF or something.
Also - I think this was an absolute steal on Craig's part. I don't think flipping six-years of Grissom for one year of Burnes or Bieber is the right move, for that matter. This team isn't in a position to give up MLB ready prospects for one year of GFIN. That's a fast track back to October 2019.