Chris Sale aiming to return

DaveRoberts'Shoes

Aaron Burr
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Ironically, he was riding his bike to the library to continue doing his own research on vaccinations…

From an orthopedic standpoint… this is a very recoverable injury and if this were a regular player who doesn’t hurt himself sneezing I would say he should be fine for 2023, but at this point I’ve given up on being optimistic about anything having to do with Sale, medically or from a pure baseball standpoint
 

moondog80

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RobertS975

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Well, as unlucky as this guy certainly seems to be, it still doesn't approach the bizarre injury to Paxton Crawford!
 

mauidano

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Sale does have an opt out clause in his contract after this year. Maybe he’ll do the right thing for the organization……..

But I think he’s gonna just stick it out for the additional $74 million for the next three years.
 

moondog80

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Sale does have an opt out clause in his contract after this year. Maybe he’ll do the right thing for the organization……..

But I think he’s gonna just stick it out for the additional $74 million for the next three years.
Two years. 2025 only vests if he finishes top 10 in Cy Young voting in 2024.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Sale does have an opt out clause in his contract after this year. Maybe he’ll do the right thing for the organization……..

But I think he’s gonna just stick it out for the additional $74 million for the next three years.
He won't and shouldn't opt out. He didn't force the Sox to give him that contract extension. "Never interrupt your enemy when he is in the process of making a mistake."
 
Dec 1, 2007
27
Is it really? You mean to say that people cannot ride bikes competently when their pinky finger is broken? Do you know for sure that the accident is attributable to Sale not being able to control his bike due to that injured finger? If so, please post a link. Thank you.
What happens when you fall off a bike... you brace yourself with your what?

I get it we all know how to ride bikes hands free the point is taken.

Still a stupid way beyond non zero risk. Tell me you don't take your job and injury recovery seriously without saying it.

I'm sure he can also play basketball or tennis or ski one handed. Still a dumb dumb move.
 

joe dokes

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What happens when you fall off a bike... you brace yourself with your what?

I get it we all know how to ride bikes hands free the point is taken.

Still a stupid way beyond non zero risk. Tell me you don't take your job and injury recovery seriously without saying it.

I'm sure he can also play basketball or tennis or ski one handed. Still a dumb dumb move.
I'm guessing that your search for "non-zero risk" ways to get around will prove fruitless.
 

Ale Xander

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That’s possibly going into future MLB contracts

No riding bikes on the streets, especially if there’s a hill.

I’m just disappointed I don’t win my pool. I had him getting hurt putting on a shirt
 

HangingW/ScottCooper

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Weren't their rumors that other teams had interest in Sale? I'm sure it would be largely subsidized, but I'm done with him at this point.

His contract more or less gives him a spot on the 2023 roster, but counting on him to be at the top of the rotation at any point in the future is blissful ignorance.
 

richgedman'sghost

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Different sport, but after Aaron Hernandez I refuse to believe you can ever get salary relief - especially in baseball.
I thought the Pats finally did get salary relief though? I know the Celtics never got any relief or trade exceptions or anything when Reggie Lewis passed on. Sorry for tangent. Get well soon Chris.
 

moondog80

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That’s possibly going into future MLB contracts

No riding bikes on the streets, especially if there’s a hill.

I’m just disappointed I don’t win my pool. I had him getting hurt putting on a shirt
I dunno, I imagine a lot of guys do cycling for conditioning -- much easier on the joints, right? I'll change my mind if someone can show that the injury rate from cycling is prohibitively high, but to me it seems different from thrill-seeking activities like motorcycles, dirtbikes, and skiing that are typically not allowed.
 

joe dokes

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How about spending some of that 30M on a car service?

Maybe we can stuff him in the back of a Brinks.
Off the top of my head, I'd guess there were 10 times more car accidents in Boston than bike accidents. Whether there are 10 times more cars than bikes I do not know.
 
Dec 1, 2007
27
Off the top of my head, I'd guess there were 10 times more car accidents in Boston than bike accidents. Whether there are 10 times more cars than bikes I do not know.
If you are going to be a pedant.

Risk of injury from cycling compared to driving. 45,000 cyclists vs. 2.4M motorists were injured in 2005, from traveling 6.2 billion miles and 1.6 M-M miles respectively, yielding 7.3 injuries per million miles for cyclists and 1.5 injuries per million miles travelled for motorists, making cyclists 4.9 times more likely to be injured per mile of travel. NHTSA Traffic Safety Facts 2005 (PDF)

Testosterone kills. Male riders are seven times more likely to end up a fatality than a female cyclist, and four times more likely to be injured. (Treehugger, 2009)

Kinds of crashes. Falls account for 59% of all crashes, running into a fixed object 14%, moving motor vehicles were involved in 11%, and another bicycle in 9%. (Moritz, 1998)

One in every 20 bicyclists is injured annually. (Bicycling Magazine 1987)

A bicyclist can expect a minor injury every three years and a more serious one every fifteen. (Bicycle Forum 1978)
 

chrisfont9

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Not that I'm exactly sure what to make of Sale's latest injury but those of us who know how to ride bikes without our pinkies also don't fall and break our wrists.
I mean, if he was doing the office park crit over in West Newton and got hurt in a pileup, that's on him. Or did he clip into pedals for the first time in his life and keeled over at a traffic light when he couldn't get a foot out? I haven't done that one in (checks watch) two weeks.
 

chrisfont9

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Leisurely, sure. But what kind of bike riding are you doing that is so intense that you break a wrist? Admittedly I don't ride a lot but the only times I've ever fallen were when I had too much speed and couldn't control my breaking properly OR when I was first learning clipless pedals which was really scary at first.
Speed is irrelevant here, if you fall over and stick your hand out, you're asking for it. Especially a taller guy.
 

Ale Xander

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Yeah, the higher center of gravity is worse for safety/staying upright.
 

chrisfont9

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If you are going to be a pedant.

Risk of injury from cycling compared to driving. 45,000 cyclists vs. 2.4M motorists were injured in 2005, from traveling 6.2 billion miles and 1.6 M-M miles respectively, yielding 7.3 injuries per million miles for cyclists and 1.5 injuries per million miles travelled for motorists, making cyclists 4.9 times more likely to be injured per mile of travel. NHTSA Traffic Safety Facts 2005 (PDF)

Testosterone kills. Male riders are seven times more likely to end up a fatality than a female cyclist, and four times more likely to be injured. (Treehugger, 2009)

Kinds of crashes. Falls account for 59% of all crashes, running into a fixed object 14%, moving motor vehicles were involved in 11%, and another bicycle in 9%. (Moritz, 1998)

One in every 20 bicyclists is injured annually. (Bicycling Magazine 1987)

A bicyclist can expect a minor injury every three years and a more serious one every fifteen. (Bicycle Forum 1978)
If we are on pedant patrol, I would say that those are some really old statistics that predate a pretty huge leap in cycling infrastructure and ridership. Bikes don't crash into stuff more frequently than cars, in my experience, but when things go wrong, even minor errors, it usually hurts. The point of all this is to debate whether he was increasing his injury risk by riding a bike, and yeah, he was. But not by much and people have to live their lives.
 

gryoung

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He's become irrelevant to me. I heard about the latest injury and shrugged my shoulders. Not surprised. No longer consider him to be an asset to the team. Maybe he comes back and maybe he doesn't. Anything positive he provides next season is pure gravy.
 
Dec 1, 2007
27
If we are on pedant patrol, I would say that those are some really old statistics that predate a pretty huge leap in cycling infrastructure and ridership. Bikes don't crash into stuff more frequently than cars, in my experience, but when things go wrong, even minor errors, it usually hurts. The point of all this is to debate whether he was increasing his injury risk by riding a bike, and yeah, he was. But not by much and people have to live their lives.
If you weighted the data to the location (metro city, his experience, his personality (mr angry punch walls), his body type, his current physical condition (injured hand) ... I would bet you his risk per mile is at least 50x a typical cyclist mile and at least 200x riding in a car per mile.

The age of the data is hardly a problem.

I'm not gonna reply on this point any further it has been beat to death.

Not everyone has to live in a bubble. Just professional athletes whose bodies are their tools and his tool has not been functioning well for quite a while.
 

Frisbetarian

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I will never understand why Chris Sale was signed after the 2018 season when he had another year left on his contract. Sale was already showing some signs of losing effectiveness later in seasons when the Red Sox acquired him in 2017, as the following chart showing his monthly ERA's with the White Sox shows:


Month ERA
March/April 3.32
May 2.15
June 2.53
July 2.99
August 3.04
September/October 3.79


With the Red Sox, Sale's late season struggles were exacerbated. Sale was an exceptional pitcher in his first year with the Boston (2017) through the end of July, with a 13-4 record, 2.37 ERA and 1.92 FIP. But he struggled in August, September, and the postseason of that season, going a combined 4-6 with a 4.70 ERA. The cracks were showing, with even more evidence he no longer could be relied on to pitch effectively for a full season. Then in 2018 Sale again started strong, going 11-4 with a 2.04 ERA (2.02 FIP) through the end of July, followed by him being effectively shut down, with only 17 IP in August and September. He was a non factor that year in the postseason, as well, with just 3 starts, only 15 1/3 innings, and 7 earned runs allowed (4.11 ERA). Overall with the Red Sox in the postseason, Sale is 1-3 with a 6.35 ERA.

Why anyone would even consider signing Sale after the 2018 season a year before his contract was up, when he was clearly struggling to finish the prior 2 seasons and showed a tendency his entire career to wear down, is a mystery. I think it's the worst signing in team history.

An aside, but we saw something similar with Tuukka when I first joined the Bruins (declining play after x games played), and made a conscious effort to limit his regular season starts, going as far as to go through the schedule well before the season started to look for games when the back-up goalie made the most sense statistically. It's a different sport, and I'm not sure that would work in baseball, but the Red Sox certainly should have been aware that Sale's effectiveness diminished later in seasons and taken whatever necessary precautions. Signing him to a 5 year contract was not one of them.
 
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YTF

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You can't ride a bike with a broken pinky? Jesus, I get that he's gotten hurt over and over again, but that's not a personality defect.
I'm 100% with you here. Unless the "bike" turns out to be a motorcycle, I don't think that there is anything here to criticize. It's certainly nothing to celebrate and frustrating as hell to the point of being laughable. Here's hoping that Sale ignores the old adage about the best thing to do after falling off your bike is to get right back on.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Why anyone would even consider signing Sale after the 2018 season a year before his contract was up, when he was clearly struggling to finish the prior 2 seasons and showed a tendency his entire career to wear down, is a mystery. I think it's the worst signing in team history.
My assumption was that this was Dombrowski's big Red Sox deal and he didn't want to lose it, ie Koppech and Moncada keep paying dividends for the White Sox while Sale was pitching for another team. I think he backed up the Brinks truck dumped a ton of money on the guy (I'm actually surprised that Sale wasn't injured signing the contract) and hoped that Sale wouldn't completely break down. Or maybe they made contract offers to their biggest free agents (Mookie, Sale, etc) and Sale knew what was up at the time and jumped at the chance to sign while Mookie bet (no pun) on himself and wanted to get to free agency.

Otherwise, I'm with you, I have no idea why they extended him after 2018.
 

nattysez

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I thought Miguel Cabrera's extension would go down as DD's worst contract of all time, but the Sale extension is really starting to make a run at the title.
 
Dec 1, 2007
27
I will never understand why Chris Sale was signed after the 2018 season when he had another year left on his contract. Sale was already showing some signs of losing effectiveness later in seasons when the Red Sox acquired him in 2017, as the following chart showing his monthly ERA's with the White Sox shows:
It was a truly maddening signing.

Declining and 1 free extra year to evaluate.

There was zero reason to do it.


Off the top of my head, I'd guess there were 10 times more car accidents in Boston than bike accidents. Whether there are 10 times more cars than bikes I do not know.

That is just completely wrong. The age of data is always a potential problem, and if you live in the US, you would know that data about recreational cycling in this country from 1978 is completely useless.

You both toss around antidotes and subjective superficial ruminations and demand data.

My turn. Show me better data that proves your point.
 

joe dokes

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You both toss around antidotes and subjective superficial ruminations and demand data.

My turn. Show me better data that proves your point.
We toss around antidotes because we don't want Sale to get COVID. But, as with the manager and GM, he didn't take our advice.
 
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joe dokes

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As for data, I found these in the 37 seconds I'm willing to devote to demonstrating that Sale riding a bike is not like Lonborg skiiing or Jeff Kent washing his truck, or Wade Boggs willing himself invisible.
Boston Car Accident Statistics - Sweeney Merrigan Law, LLP
The total number of car accidents reported in Boston
2017: 5,281
2018: 4,777
2019: 4,432

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwielsXUpLr5AhXtD1kFHSjACLQQFnoECAoQAQ&url=https://www.mass.gov/doc/boston-ems-2020-cyclist-pedestrian-report/download&usg=AOvVaw3GmP8CHFMFX3S9YXZYJTXw
BICYCLIST INCIDENTS
There were 306 documented bicyclist incidents in 2020, where 217 resulted in transport to an area
hospital. Of the remaining 89 incidents, 83 were patient refusals, 4 “no medicals”, and 2 fatal
incidents referred directly to the medical examiner.
 
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