I doubt Kanter opts out, in the imploding cap/luxury tax environment no team is going to pay him what he's making now. As for Hayward, if he opts out he will be going, Tatum is about to become a 30% max contract player and they can't afford three of those guys. Their best case scenario is that someone works out a deal for Hayward after he opts in, and they replace him with lower cost roleplayers. Because next offseason he's gone anyway (unless he's willing to sign for Terry Rozier money).I say re-sign hayward and Kanter--when they are healthy it changes the look and options on the team--they need an inside banger and if Hayward is healthy teams have to cover him--his first game back against the Heat showed his impact----thought nothing the next game
Hypothetical 3 Team Trade with Simmons and Turner to Celtics
Celtics Get
Ben Simmons
Myles Turner
Doug McDermott
Jeremy Lamb
76ers Get
Victor Oladipo
Kemba Walker
Daniel Theis
Pacers' 2020 second-round pick
Pacers Get
Gordon Hayward
Shake Milton
Matisse Thybulle
Romeo Langford
Al Horford
MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES' 2020 NO. 14 PICK
BOSTON CELTICS' 2021 FIRST-ROUND PICK
Pacers' GM also gets fired?
Not sure that's entirely fair. He was a 20 year-old playing on a deep, upper echelon team and still carved out a minor role based on his defensive capabilities. If I'm a GM and I saw a 20 year-old cracking Stevens' rotation, I'm taking notice. There is obviously a lot for Langford to prove on the offensive end but it's not like Langford was a N'Keal Harry pick or something.It's interesting to me how many of the (Celtics fan inspired) trade rumors involve Romeo Langford. I'm not trying to knock the guy, but if I was a GM of another club, I wouldn't value him at all. He's basically shown very little this past year other than he gets hurt a lot. I certainly wouldn't be trading any established players for him.
The double BIG situation didn't work for them in Playoffs last season or this season. One of Turner or Sabonis could be moved/available. Regardless of Pritchards like/dislike of DAR is irrelevant since Hayward makes them better in 2021 than the Turner/Sabonis combo. I like Sabonis better and would holdout for him. There are very few buyers of 5s. I'm really reticent about going after and pay one $19Mm/yr but Sabonis is probably worth itSomething to keep an eye on once we find out when NBA teams can start making trades: some within the Pacers organization continue to have interest in trading for Celtics’ Gordon Hayward, per SNY sources.
It’s unknown what Boston would want in return for Hayward -- or if the club is even open to moving him.
In an NBC Sports podcast in June, the Indianapolis Star noted that Hayward would be a player of interest for the Pacers in the offseason.
Hayward, who starred at Butler, can become a free agent by opting out of the final year of his deal, worth roughly $34 million. It’s hard to see Hayward opting out of his deal without the assurance of a long-term extension in place.
https://sny.tv/articles/sources-some-with-pacers-continue-to-have-interest-in-trading-for-gordon-hayward
Trading Langford would be the very definition of selling lowIt's interesting to me how many of the (Celtics fan inspired) trade rumors involve Romeo Langford. I'm not trying to knock the guy, but if I was a GM of another club, I wouldn't value him at all. He's basically shown very little this past year other than he gets hurt a lot. I certainly wouldn't be trading any established players for him.
The only reasonable Hayward opt-out to re-sign that I have seen is the speculation that if he really wants to stay in Boston for both basketball and family reasons, he might opt out and re-sign on a frontloaded deal that is something like 4-90 or 4-95. He'd be likely taking a discount, but he'd be locking in money now, and for the Celtics, they'd get the declining salaries as the Tatum deal ramps up. Probably depends a lot on what he sees his market as in a year, and how committed he is to getting a bigger deal vs. a comfortable situation.I doubt Kanter opts out, in the imploding cap/luxury tax environment no team is going to pay him what he's making now. As for Hayward, if he opts out he will be going, Tatum is about to become a 30% max contract player and they can't afford three of those guys. Their best case scenario is that someone works out a deal for Hayward after he opts in, and they replace him with lower cost roleplayers. Because next offseason he's gone anyway (unless he's willing to sign for Terry Rozier money).
I think the primary reason he'd take an extension---and I've seen 4/80-85 in a couple places---is about family and about wanting to win with Stevens. If his calculation is even 50% about total pay, he's not going to take that extension. But I have zero idea what his priorities are, and pretty sure no one else around here does either. Guys like him more often than not take the money, but the guys who do not often fit his profile (including having banked $100 mil already).Still, for that to make sense, he'd have to think he'd get less than 3-61 on the market next "summer" (factoring in the risk of injury / poor performance this season). I think I'd take the guaranteed $34 million and take my chances.
I saw an article recently about how with the expected escrow of salaries that having 25% of $34 million in escrow was worse than having 25% of $20 million in escrow. Ummmm….I'd rather have 75% of $34 million than 75% of $20 million.
Yes, but if he wants to be here the Celtics control the terms.Sure, he can want to win with Stevens. But, I'm not seeing how that is different a year from now. It's not like he'll be competing with other potential free agents the Celtics could sign. For the most part, it's re-sign Hayward, or watch that salary slot go away.
I love Sabonis offensively but what do you think of him defensively?The double BIG situation didn't work for them in Playoffs last season or this season. One of Turner or Sabonis could be moved/available. Regardless of Pritchards like/dislike of DAR is irrelevant since Hayward makes them better in 2021 than the Turner/Sabonis combo. I like Sabonis better and would holdout for him. There are very few buyers of 5s. I'm really reticent about going after and pay one $19Mm/yr but Sabonis is probably worth it
A 3rd team would need to be added to take salary/player from Indy and get compensated with pick (s).
Getting the C's under the Cap by adding Sabonis while unloading Hayward + Kanter is worth a couple of firsts IMO.
I mean if Indiana could get a decentish pick for Turner in a three way scenario then I could see that happening. Turner is an MLE level player making twice that money. So it’s understandable why they’d want to unload him with a better C on the roster in Sabonis. If they could talk New York into taking Oladipo and Detroit into taking Turner, making it a three way deal to generate a TPE of sufficient size, then Hayward for Holiday and picks would be a pretty good deal for both teams.In Lowe’s most recent podcast with Bobby Mark’s, he references the Pacer’s reported interest in Hayward, and says there’s some “smoke out there” indicating that “it’s no guarantee that Hayward will be on the Celtics next year. I don’t know if that involves him opting out or him opting in and Boston trading him, but something is mildly afoot here.” Marks mentions Atlanta as a potential suitor. Pretty nebulous stuff, but it’s out there.
You're right they'll move Turner before Sabonis. I'm not as hot on Myles as others. He can appear clumsy to me. Theis at $6MM should be fine with TL/GW developing. PLUS Kanter will be back for his 10mpg.I love Sabonis offensively but what do you think of him defensively?
Also every rumor I've heard seems to imply the Pacers are considering moving Turner and building around Sabonis. Is there reason to think the Pacers would be open to a Sabonis deal?
I'm not sure Hayward is what ATL needs, but they do need wing help for Young and Collins. One rumor out there today is ATL floating the #6 pick for some veteran help and if I'm reading things correctly they have somewhere around $40M in cap space.In Lowe’s most recent podcast with Bobby Mark’s, he references the Pacer’s reported interest in Hayward, and says there’s some “smoke out there” indicating that “it’s no guarantee that Hayward will be on the Celtics next year. I don’t know if that involves him opting out or him opting in and Boston trading him, but something is mildly afoot here.” Marks mentions Atlanta as a potential suitor. Pretty nebulous stuff, but it’s out there.
I have a hard time seeing Boston tie up money in Capela for a season and a half but who knows. The guy would have been unplayable for long stretches of the recent playoffs so the C's would need to make up for the loss of Hayward's production and also have a plan for when Capela can't be on the floor.Capela/#6/future Atlanta #1 for Hayward would be worth considering, though.
Late to the party, but there were definitely reports last year that Kemba got a synvisc injection and I would surmise he got the limit.Assuming all the usual cleanup/synvisc stuff has been tried, it's either microfracture or management afaik, and both suck.
Oh, I agree that he's just a sunk cost for Hayward to Atlanta if the Hawks want to offload salary and use any deal as a means of attracting free agents. So I'd want more than #6 to eat that deal. Alternatively Hayward for #6 works just fine since the Hawks have plenty of space.I have a hard time seeing Boston tie up money in Capela for a season and a half but who knows. The guy would have been unplayable for long stretches of the recent playoffs so the C's would need to make up for the loss of Hayward's production and also have a plan for when Capela can't be on the floor.
Frankly, if Boston is doing this deal, it suggests they are reverting to a more traditional style of basketball where they utilize a big who cannot stretch the floor on offense. Its effectively a 180 from the direction they have been headed over the past few seasons.
If the C's think a backwards move is the right one at this time, I will trust them. But again, in your tireless efforts to make Gordon Hayward disappear, you need to acknowledge that there is likely a hit to this team's competitiveness.Oh, I agree that he's just a sunk cost for Hayward to Atlanta if the Hawks want to offload salary and use any deal as a means of attracting free agents. So I'd want more than #6 to eat that deal. Alternatively Hayward for #6 works just fine since the Hawks have plenty of space.
Wildly unrealistic deal—no chance Atlanta would do anything close to this.Capela/#6/future Atlanta #1 for Hayward would be worth considering, though.
The rumor is that the Hawks are already trying to unload Capela with #6 as a sweetener. And not for an all star, just a vet to help the young guys take a step forward.Wildly unrealistic deal—no chance Atlanta would do anything close to this.
No one’s said that this is an improvement thing. Everyone’s acknowledged that this is about resetting the luxury tax to create flexibility for them in ‘22 and beyond. And the hope that whoever they draft/acquire can help the Jay-Crew win.If the C's think a backwards move is the right one at this time, I will trust them. But again, in your tireless efforts to make Gordon Hayward disappear, you need to acknowledge that there is likely a hit to this team's competitiveness.
Why would they move Theis to create more playing time for a guy whose best position is “Salary Ballast”? Capela’s a prime candidate to get traded into a rebuilding team’s cap space in ‘22.If they do this, they presumably move Theis as well, correct? If that is the case, you have to account for the delta there as well. Most advance metrics have Theis as the better of the two players and he fits the C's current style of play better too.
I agree. This would be one of the craziest trades ever.Wildly unrealistic deal—no chance Atlanta would do anything close to this.
So Capela is playing five to fifteen minutes a game to spell Theis or is he waving towels while Time Lord gets run? $19mm seems like a lot to tie up for one season plus in a player who doesn't really fit what they do and provides a very limited amount of value overall.Why would they move Theis to create more playing time for a guy whose best position is “Salary Ballast”? Capela’s a prime candidate to get traded into a rebuilding team’s cap space in ‘22.
Nobody can opt in or out until the cap is set. Rumor is that the cap will be set by the end of this week, and then the new deadline for options, guarantees and QOs set up soon after.When do we find out which way Hayward is opting for 2020-21? I know the deadline was pushed back, but the draft is little more than two weeks away.
Agreed, the Atlanta rumor sounds a little nutty. It was started by Bobby Marks on the Lowe podcast, right?So Capela is playing five to fifteen minutes a game to spell Theis or is he waving towels while Time Lord gets run? $19mm seems like a lot to tie up for one season plus in a player who doesn't really fit what they do and provides a very limited amount of value overall.
Forgetting Atlanta's motivation to do this deal as proposed, I am still struggling with the logic here. This seems like a deal Boston would only do if they absolutely are intent on getting rid of Hayward and the market for his services doesn't exist outside of the Hawks. Otherwise, there have to be deals where they aren't tying up salary/cap in a player they really cannot use.
Mark’s wasn’t reporting any specific interest from Atlanta, him and Lowe were just speculating as to the fit there as the Hawks are a team with a ton of cap space and they are, according to Lowe, “yearning, like George Costanza yearns” to make the playoffs next year and therefore looking for impact vets.Agreed, the Atlanta rumor sounds a little nutty. It was started by Bobby Marks on the Lowe podcast, right?
I'd say the odds are greater the Celtic executives are feeding Marks this to get GH to opt-out. Can't imagine GH wants to play there. Wouldn't mind hearing from resident Hawks fan @Conigliaro's Potential on what direction they are taking with Dedmon/Capella and John Collins
All I'd say is those that absolutely freak about losing GH (with not much present return) better prepare themselves. It feels like a coin toss he isn't playing for the Celtics next season.
Thanks, DD.Mark’s wasn’t reporting any specific interest from Atlanta, him and Lowe were just speculating as to the fit there as the Hawks are a team with a ton of cap space and they are, according to Lowe, “yearning, like George Costanza yearns” to make the playoffs next year and therefore looking for impact vets.
Marks did say that Hayward’s agent, Mark Bartelstein is gauging the market for a long term deal and would likely sacrifice money next year to get one done, so a sign and trade with the Celtics could get done if a team has a reasonable long term agreement with Gordo in place. They also talked anyhow it would benefit the Hayward camp to have the Celtics think him opting out to sign with the Hawks (and thus losing him for nothing) is a real possibility. Marks threw out GH for Miles Turner and TJ Leaf after he signs for 4x25. Lowe threw out GH to the Kings for Barnes, Holmes and a pick; to Cleveland for Drummond, Cedi Osman and a pick, and finally to Portland for Ariza, Hood and Zach Collins and a pick.
But this was all pure speculation. I think the only team with actual reported interest in Hayward remains the Pacers.
Yeah, the only Atlanta rumblings have been that they were willing to give #6 away to any team with a useful vet to help their kids over the hump, and that they wanted to use Capela in the deal for salary purposes (i.e. maintain cap space to sign a free agent after). Marks was using those rumblings and the rumors that Bartelstein was shopping Hayward to create the Hayward to Atlanta scenario.Mark’s wasn’t reporting any specific interest from Atlanta, him and Lowe were just speculating as to the fit there as the Hawks are a team with a ton of cap space and they are, according to Lowe, “yearning, like George Costanza yearns” to make the playoffs next year and therefore looking for impact vets.
Marks did say that Hayward’s agent, Mark Bartelstein is gauging the market for a long term deal and would likely sacrifice money next year to get one done, so a sign and trade with the Celtics could get done if a team has a reasonable long term agreement with Gordo in place. They also talked anyhow it would benefit the Hayward camp to have the Celtics think him opting out to sign with the Hawks (and thus losing him for nothing) is a real possibility. Marks threw out GH for Miles Turner and TJ Leaf after he signs for 4x25. Lowe threw out GH to the Kings for Barnes, Holmes and a pick; to Cleveland for Drummond, Cedi Osman and a pick, and finally to Portland for Ariza, Hood and Zach Collins and a pick.
But this was all pure speculation. I think the only team with actual reported interest in Hayward remains the Pacers.
Is there any rule in the NBA CBA that precludes signing a player to a stupid long contract to spread out AAV when you realize that some chunk of that time would be post-retirement (i.e. "a Bobby Bonilla contract)? It seems to me that people are putting a LOT of weight on two freak injuries in minimizing Hayward's value. Those injuries aside, he seems to me to be the type of player whose game would age well. Hayward is currently 30; Kyle Korver is currently 39. Hayward doesn't shoot the 3 as well as Korver, but he seems to do most everything else better. Could they sign Hayward to a new contract for something like 7 years/$105M or 9/$120M?we gotta something equal to GH or resign him--