Celtics vs. Nets, Round 1 Discussion
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The difference between Kyrie in G1 and G2 illustrates why he isn't among the games truly elite. He is talented enough but he has always lacked the consistency to put it all together night after night. In G1 he put it on full display, but in G2, barely a whisper from him.
Get ready for the Nets to do some whining on how physical the Celtics have been with Kevin Durant. There was one play where Grant Williams pump faked under the basket and then just caved in Durant’s chest, which staggered him.
KI and KD were 8-30, with 8 TOs. Their teammates were 27-46 with 6 TOs
The Jays were really struggling on offense, but they turned it up defensively and got run outs to get them going. While concentrating on slowing Tatum, the Nets don’t have an answer for Jaylen Brown. I’d love to see a game three where they’re both firing on all cylinders right from the jump.
KI and KD were 8-30, with 8 TOs. Their teammates were 27-46 with 6 TOs
The Jays were really struggling on offense, but they turned it up defensively and got run outs to get them going. While concentrating on slowing Tatum, the Nets don’t have an answer for Jaylen Brown. I’d love to see a game three where they’re both firing on all cylinders right from the jump.
I missed the whole reason why he left the game and was then eating a banana? Something was off with him. He couldn't get any separation
I was worried that KI would try to go off again Smart in the first game after smart and his teammates were taking a victory lap about his defensive player of the year award. Instead, they locked Kyrie up. Considering that Kyrie made sure that most of the chatter between game one and game two was about him, he really laid an egg in game two.
I have no doubt they will complain but physical defense was their game plan today as well, and it had a lot to do with their success. It just sucks for them that if you take one or two players out of their game, their chances of winning diminish greatly.
It was a nice side benefit that so many Celtic starters saw his minutes decrease from Game 1 to Game 2.
As others have said, much of that is the result of long rebounds off of long jumpers.
It was nice to see Pritchard scoop some of those up when he had his 4th quarter run.
Impressive to see 7 Celtics in double-figures. I wonder when was the last time that happened in a playoff game, for any team?
This is who he is. He has games where he looks like the most talented offensive player in the NBA, but part of the annoyance with him, and why he has never been in the top tier of NBA players, is his inconsistency at the highest level.
Really solid game all around by the good guys. Good to see a team trusting the system and each other and doing their jobs.
Brooklyn seems to be content trying to stop Tatum and Brown from scoring and letting the other 6-7 guys beat them. But when Brown & Tatum combine for the same number of assists (16) as the Brooklyn team, that's a tough path to choose.
27 assists on 39 field goals (69%) is a nice number. Even with Durant getting 20 FTA, it didn't matter.
Brooklyn seems to be content trying to stop Tatum and Brown from scoring and letting the other 6-7 guys beat them. But when Brown & Tatum combine for the same number of assists (16) as the Brooklyn team, that's a tough path to choose.
27 assists on 39 field goals (69%) is a nice number. Even with Durant getting 20 FTA, it didn't matter.
Yeah the KD criticisms seem off here. It also discredits not only Durant's skill but more importantly, the spectacular second half defense the Cs threw at him. They were relentless about not letting either Durant or Irving get to their spots.
As a side note, the Celtics deserve credit not only for their defense but also not fouling as the game went along.
But imo, Durant's main failing here is that he cannot do it by himself. Tonight he kind of had to for Brooklyn to have a shot.
The Celtics D in the second half and during the fourth was clinical.
This is the role players were pretty good.. Brown, Curry and Dragic combined for 57 points on 47 shots.
The problem was Kyrie also didn't score, and it's a product of an offense that doesn't have much movement, not many creators, and no continuity because Kyrie missed half the season. Guys spend a lot of time standing around waiting for Durant to bail the team out.
If the Nets get swept or lose in 5 I wouldn't be shocked to see Nash get fired, if that's what KD/Ky want.
#scapegoat
#scapegoat
I was pretty concerned at halftime. The Nets were doing a great job switching and putting pressure on the Celtics, and the Jays in particular, defensively. They looked really out of sorts. They were pressing and missing shots and making bad decisions. They didn’t play great offensively in game one and we’ve seen them relapse before, and I just started to wonder if there was a chance we wouldn’t see the Celtics of the last 3 months this series. I posted as much in the game thread.
And then the second half started and all of a sudden the Jays looked relaxed and in control and were making good reads. And the team looked together on defense. And within 2 minutes, literally three possessions, I knew they were going to be all right. I posted again in the game thread that things looked good right off the bat and indeed they were. Credit to Ime and the team. The turnaround was so clear.
They found themselves. They played their game. They dominated. Celtics in 5.
And then the second half started and all of a sudden the Jays looked relaxed and in control and were making good reads. And the team looked together on defense. And within 2 minutes, literally three possessions, I knew they were going to be all right. I posted again in the game thread that things looked good right off the bat and indeed they were. Credit to Ime and the team. The turnaround was so clear.
They found themselves. They played their game. They dominated. Celtics in 5.
That's absolutely fair. I would add that the Nets only work because of KD so your point about how their offense can get stagnant when he is slowed or, in this game, clamped makes sense.
Going back to the Cs, its been mentioned but it bears repeating that outside of White, the rest of the rotation played really well given what a physical game this was. While there were no dirty plays or really bad fouls, these teams are getting up into each other pretty good.
I haven't looked in detail, but unlike the celtics' extras, (PP and GW) it seemed Nash (or KD and KI) didn't let Dragic and Brown be factors in the 2nd half.
Lots of credit to Ime for finding the Grant+PP lineups to get shooting on the floor. That really opened things up, given how many extra bodies the Nets were showing Tatum and Brown.
Grant is also just better than Theis as a defender against Brooklyn, so I'd expect to see him play a lot more, ideally start.
Grant is also just better than Theis as a defender against Brooklyn, so I'd expect to see him play a lot more, ideally start.
He did have a great game, for sure.
Could be. It is hard to look at that Nets team and see Nash as the problem. The Nets only path forward is for Simmons to be a good fit next year.
I know we’re on to game 2 analysis now, but to me, Ime’s decision not to call a timeout after Horford’s rebound before the last possession of game 1 feels like Belichick’s decision not to call a TO before the Malcolm pick in the 2014 SB. Confidence in your guys’ ability to execute combined with seeing something in the other team that suggested they might panic resulted in a non-obvious but significant advantage – and an epic outcome. Pretty awesome.
Looking ahead, Al won't be getting as much rest between games:
Game 3 is Saturday, Game 4 is Monday, Game 5 (if necessary) is Wednesday, and Game 6 (if necessary) is next Friday.
Let's hope the C's make quick work of Brooklyn and the Bucks-Bulls goes the full seven.
Game 3 is Saturday, Game 4 is Monday, Game 5 (if necessary) is Wednesday, and Game 6 (if necessary) is next Friday.
Let's hope the C's make quick work of Brooklyn and the Bucks-Bulls goes the full seven.
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Tatum defended Durant on 45 possessions, 4 points on 0-7 shooting, with 0 assists and 3 turnovers. He defended Kyrie for 9 possessions and allowed 2 points on 1-1 shooting.
Jaylen defended KD for 10 possessions, 6 points on 2-5 shooting, and a turnover. Defended Kyrie for 15 possessions, 2 points on 1-2 shooting.
I’ll take it!
Jaylen defended KD for 10 possessions, 6 points on 2-5 shooting, and a turnover. Defended Kyrie for 15 possessions, 2 points on 1-2 shooting.
I’ll take it!
Apologies if it seemed like I was calling out your post, that wasn't the intention. Just seemed odd that the entire post-game Board didn't acknowledge Grant's efficient contribution when the team needed him most.
The 3pt shots were huge BUT almost as important was his face guarding defense on KD. Grant has been physical and effective in both games on that side of the ball. Giannis scares me just a little less knowing we can use Grant off the bench to help there.
I doubt it is Nash's fault, he may just be scapegoated.
OTOH IME has done a wonderful job and got the most out of his roster, even when his 2 stars haven't been their best (and no TimeLord).
Ime seems to have a great handle on *exactly* what he can and can't get from Theis, Pritchard, White, and Grant. I think that's one of the reasons that his deployments have been so spot on so far. Maybe it has something to do with his knowledge of Nash and the players, but regardless, it's impressive.
I'd like to see Grant get in a little earlier for Theis, just so we can balance out Horford/Theis minutes and not run the risk of both of our 5s fouling out. GW didn't look out of place playing 32 minutes yesterday, Brooklyn plays really small. Grant can legitimately guard KD which lessens Tatum burn.
In the 4th, PP & the Jays were playing a little 3-man game at the top with Grant/Al lurking in the corners. It definitely helped spread the floor and was a high-level coaching adjustment.
After so many years of just seeming so damn small compared to our opponents, you can really see the benefits of players who are big or at least play big. Blitzing KD doesn’t matter much if you don’t have 5 guys on the floor for most of the game who can actually get in his grill, and that’s with the starting center out. Having Al back in the mix has unlocked so much for this team.
Hmm I'd have to re-watch, but I thought Grant was significantly better on the defensive end.
Grant was great last night, and that was a big difference especially offensively. His development this year has just been spectacular---quicker on both ends, the shooting but also the decision making and comfort driving offensively. He is a legit rotation guy for sure, and may end up as a Crowder-like role playing starter
Durant had 20 free throws, I'm not sure why people would be afraid of more. Here's the most in a single playoff game; it's mostly MJ and then guys you would hack like Shaq:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fta_game_p.html
I think the refs were calling everything early, particularly off-ball stuff and then they stopped in the late third/early 4th when the Celtics made their run. Not a coincidence that the Nets played worse when they stopped.
Grant was really good. Obvious made his shots and played D but also pulled down a few crucial boards when the game was close.
Again the Nets got great shooting from some role guys, plus not exactly supernova performances from Tatum and Brown and couldn't pull it off. Playing in Brooklyn may be different but is last night even close if Dragic and Brown shoot like they normally do?
https://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/fta_game_p.html
I think the refs were calling everything early, particularly off-ball stuff and then they stopped in the late third/early 4th when the Celtics made their run. Not a coincidence that the Nets played worse when they stopped.
Grant was really good. Obvious made his shots and played D but also pulled down a few crucial boards when the game was close.
Again the Nets got great shooting from some role guys, plus not exactly supernova performances from Tatum and Brown and couldn't pull it off. Playing in Brooklyn may be different but is last night even close if Dragic and Brown shoot like they normally do?
Yes to this. To me, BRK was going so much KD ISO I was getting flashbacks to 2015-16 playoffs Game 6 where OKC had a 7 point lead on GSW with five minutes left. Lots of KD ISO in that game too, which didn't work so well (nor were the RWB ISOs that were mixed in).
Doesn't have to go 7 if it turns out that the Cs can get CHI after all.
It is a wise move to not call a timeout, but it is also a pretty common thing to do these days. Don't let the defense get set and run it right at them.
Grant is freakishly strong for a guy his size and relative quickness. And to repeat something I said elsewhere, I think he and PP are really fundamentally sound at boxing out.
Through two games
Al- 18/11 on a 72% TS
Tatum 25/5/9 on a 58% TS
Jaylen 23/5/5 on a 54% TS (two huge 4th quarters)
Smart 16/4/6 on a 56% TS
All while defending their asses off. Tatum has defended KD/Kyrie for around 100 possessions through the two games, 80ish on KD. Jaylen has had to chase Curry around, Al has been the guy helping on KD, and Smart is Smart.
Al- 18/11 on a 72% TS
Tatum 25/5/9 on a 58% TS
Jaylen 23/5/5 on a 54% TS (two huge 4th quarters)
Smart 16/4/6 on a 56% TS
All while defending their asses off. Tatum has defended KD/Kyrie for around 100 possessions through the two games, 80ish on KD. Jaylen has had to chase Curry around, Al has been the guy helping on KD, and Smart is Smart.
The Celtics box outs in general were really impressive. There were a lot of rebounds that came in hot and bounced off of one of the Celtics hands, only to find 3-4 others right around them. Really the only rebounds the Nets got were the long rebounds near the free throw line and extended.
On the other side, the most surprising stat to me is that Seth Curry guarded JB for 5:02 directly and 25.00 (partial possessions) and JB went 0-3 from 2P and 1-3 from 3P leading to 3 player points and 23 team points. Next game, JB has to take better advantage of having Curry on him. I guess BRK's strategy is to have Curry both JB's dribble and not to worry if he gets beat inside as BRK will be sending multiple guys at JB once he gets in deep.
First game of the season where Pritchard scored more than 6 points without hitting a three. It was only the 3rd time in his career he's hit double digits without hitting a three pointer.
I've been so impressed with Jaylen in the first two games so far. I thought he might be a little out of his depth as a true #2 to Tatum on this kind of stage, but he's been relentless on offense even though his shot isn't falling as much as he's used to. His athleticism in transition is, I'm sure, frustrating to the Nets who don't have anyone to match up with him and he's constantly putting pressure on the rim in the half-court, whether there's something there or not. I love that both he and Tatum are still grinding and finding ways to impact winning even when they don't have their A games!
Not taking issue with your comparison of KD versus Bird or Magic, but Durant couldn't be defended like that in the 80's or 90's. I don't think it was just the physicality - it was the multiple guys in his face every time he touched the ball or came off a screen. Durant's going to beat most defenders 1-on-1, regardless of how physical they're being, and if you straight-up double him, like you would have had to in the 80's and 90's, he's a 7-footer with good passing skills - he's going to you make you pay there too. It's just an entirely different defensive scheme than Bird or Magic ever had to face. That doesn't take anything away from them, in my opinion - they were both better than KD.
Grant not only looked good guarding KD in stretches, he was moving his feet really well to stay in front of guards on switches. He has really quick feet and stays disciplined, going straight up to contest and avoiding swiping at guys' arms. He's just a really fundamentally sound defensive player.
And Al Horford - his release is so much quicker on those corner threes than it was his first stint in Boston. The one he made in the fourth when Tatum made that great kickout pass was Allen-like. Catch and shoot all in one motion.
This is a great point: I was concerned about potential blowback against the physicality after a Nash whinefest to the media, but as you highlighted the Nets need the leeway to stay physical with the Cs as well
Disagree. Have you read the Jordan Rules? It's basically the same idea as what KD is going through. But there was one big difference that Bird and Magic had - if they were double-teamed, they were passing to other HOFs, not Nic Claxton and Bruce Brown. Teams had to be a lot more judicious in double-teaming because everyone on the court could score at a high level.
Also, there's reason why 80s and 90s players look like they do and today's players look like they do. 80s and 90s Bball was a lot more physical. KD and Curry would have been manhandled. I mean I once played pickup with a guy who played with NBA players and he said once they got their hands on you on a handcheck, you couldn't move they were so strong.
Today's basketball with freedom of movement is probably better as it emphasizes skill over strength but KD and Steph would have a really hard time in that game IMO. Well, except for the 3P shooting which would have been a novelty back then.
In some ways yes,in others though,.... guys today are actually stronger than guys in the 80s, they're way more athletic, KD would obliterate teams in those 80's high pace games, and he'd still be able to just shoot over guys the way Bird did. If we could time machine Durant to the 80s, when you came back to the 2020s he'd be the undisputed greatest player of all time. Athletic ability pretty consistently evolves.
Crowder-like would be a great outcome and feels like a good comp. If he keeps the weight off and continues to shoot 3s well there is no reason he can't be a high-level complementary player to the JAYLords.
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Al Horford starting hitting some key shots right when things were looking grim toward the end of the 2nd quarter and helped the comeback at the beginning of the 3rd. He brings so much to this team.