Celtics Trade Timelord, Brogdon, and picks for Jrue Holiday
- Thread starter DeadlySplitter
- Start date
I’m with you. They are better now and I will be all onboard rooting once the season starts but it sucks to watch homegrown players, particularly Smart, leave without a title when they were so close.
Timelord too?
F this shit
Got rid of their 2 best defensive and energy players in the offseason
Hate this off-season so much
You need more than 7 players
F this shit
Got rid of their 2 best defensive and energy players in the offseason
Hate this off-season so much
You need more than 7 players
Wow, super excited to see how this looks...consider the chips pushed in.
I've had an unreasoning Nerlens fascination since he came out in the draft, but whether him or not I do believe we need someone else as well. Love ya Kornet.
Smart was not one of their 2 best defensive players. And just traded for a guard that's probably better defensively than him.
The closing lineup will be Jrue/DWhite/Jaylen/Tatum/KP, right? Completely ridiculous on both ends.
Warriors better be good this year of I’ll be even more pissed
Guess they(Port) didn’t want homeboy Pritch
Guess they(Port) didn’t want homeboy Pritch
Jrue Holiday has been almost 60% true shooting for the past three seasons. He makes PLENTY of shots.
Not sure the 15 games of healthy, clearly deteriorating Williams is the answer to this either.
What are you talking about, dude? Are you going to actually back any of this up with evidence or are you just shooting from the hip here?
They traded away an unhappy combo guard and their third best big with a ticking time bomb of a knee for a legit defending ballhandler who has a title. They got by far the best player in the deal. They sold high on both Brogdon and Rob. I'm lost as to how people who watched this team can think that this is a bad idea.
Jrue has averaged 16 points a game for his career. Smart has done that, uh, not once ever.
Jrue has average 6.5 assists for his career. Smart has also done that exactly zero times in his career.
Look, I get it, it's sad to see Marcus and Rob go. But the point is to win titles. Smart hasn't gotten us there and Rob's knees are taped together with hope. This deal makes the team way, way better.
Jrue has average 6.5 assists for his career. Smart has also done that exactly zero times in his career.
Look, I get it, it's sad to see Marcus and Rob go. But the point is to win titles. Smart hasn't gotten us there and Rob's knees are taped together with hope. This deal makes the team way, way better.
I hated the Smart/KP trade, because I didn't like the fit for Boston(plus I love Smart)
I still don't like it, but am at least soothed by this deal.
For everyone demanding White be the starting point guard, I like him much more as a secondary ballhandler.
White can be a really good point guard, but it also takes away some of his strengths. I love him catching the ball on the move. I love him cutting to the basket. I love him receiving a pass and moving it quickly. I love him catching and shooting it. Having him on the ball all the time gives him less opportunity to do those things. Now having Jrue replacing Smart in the lineup allows White to keep doing that stuff.
Also, think this trade is big for Jaylen Brown. Moving a big out means they should be playing smaller. That should lead to less ball handling/playmaking needed from Jaylen. That's a major plus.
Same as the White trade, I don't like trading a pick so lightly protected(in this case unprotected). But I love Jrue as a fit for this team.
They are comically thin right now. They'll need a couple ring chasers at some point along the way. They need a big now, and a non-big somewhere down the line.
Also, great job getting in an aggregation tradde before that door closes on them next summer.
I still don't like it, but am at least soothed by this deal.
For everyone demanding White be the starting point guard, I like him much more as a secondary ballhandler.
White can be a really good point guard, but it also takes away some of his strengths. I love him catching the ball on the move. I love him cutting to the basket. I love him receiving a pass and moving it quickly. I love him catching and shooting it. Having him on the ball all the time gives him less opportunity to do those things. Now having Jrue replacing Smart in the lineup allows White to keep doing that stuff.
Also, think this trade is big for Jaylen Brown. Moving a big out means they should be playing smaller. That should lead to less ball handling/playmaking needed from Jaylen. That's a major plus.
Same as the White trade, I don't like trading a pick so lightly protected(in this case unprotected). But I love Jrue as a fit for this team.
They are comically thin right now. They'll need a couple ring chasers at some point along the way. They need a big now, and a non-big somewhere down the line.
Also, great job getting in an aggregation tradde before that door closes on them next summer.
This is truly an incredible job by Portland, when it was looking for months like they might have to accept a much lesser Miami offer.
Right on the money I think with how this makes the roster play better. Jrue being in the picture just means everyone else can play the roles they're best suited for. Brown, White, but this will also mean less point Tatum which I think is a good thing.
HOLY SHIT
I am distraught about Time Lord, but I get it, and you can't say POBOBS is too timid to swing for the fences.
I am however far more distraught about the idea that if the friggen Clippers just had the courage of their convictions, we'd have done the Brogdon-based deal for Porzingis and not needed to do this deal, because we'd have kept both Smart and TimeLord (and a LOT of payroll flexibility too). That's the big sliding-doors moment of this offseason.
I am distraught about Time Lord, but I get it, and you can't say POBOBS is too timid to swing for the fences.
I am however far more distraught about the idea that if the friggen Clippers just had the courage of their convictions, we'd have done the Brogdon-based deal for Porzingis and not needed to do this deal, because we'd have kept both Smart and TimeLord (and a LOT of payroll flexibility too). That's the big sliding-doors moment of this offseason.
I think some fans want to win it all with the fully homegrown core, even though there's plenty of evidence they were not good enough.
I sort of get this. Like others I have a non-objective passion for Marcus, and, to quote someone here, TL was like a "cheat code" when he was on. Problem is, they didn't win the whole thing two straight years when they maybe could've should've.
And you know what is fun?: Jayson Tatum is fun.
And if this group works better around him, which seems likely, maybe we will have a better spring.
Yeah, if "you" think that Jrue is boring to watch, then we definitely have different definitions.
I like how Brad just evaluated it all, decided it simply wasn't good enough, and came out like a complete killer this offseason.
It's also crazy, despite how aggressive he has been as a GM, that they have this team and only owe a 2029 1st and the 2+ DWhite 2028 pick swap. Plus he restocked the 2nds in the Walsh deals. Compare that to all the other contenders and it's crazy good.
I was kind of thinking that about Griffen. He could eat some more minutes in a limited role.
I'm surprised POR couldn't so a little better. I like this deal a lot for BOS.
As mentioned earlier today, once the Clippers were out, the other deals just weren't there. If they get a late 1st+ for Brogdon and TL, that's at least 3 1sts for Jrue.
Mixed feelings. I loved watching a healthy TL, but the sands of time were running on his health and ability to add stay on the court.
I hope he can in Portland. And that Holday is a young 33 and that POBOBS can dig up a big. Give Blake another call.
I hope he can in Portland. And that Holday is a young 33 and that POBOBS can dig up a big. Give Blake another call.
Love the trade from a basketball standpoint. On a personal level, will miss TimeLord and always wonder what could have been if his knee had been healthy. He was such a fun (but ultimately frustrating/scary) guy to root for. The collective puckering every time he landed hard lately was not good for anyone's mental health.
But yes, this trade is a massive win for the Celtics. Holiday is very good and the season can't get here soon enough.
But yes, this trade is a massive win for the Celtics. Holiday is very good and the season can't get here soon enough.
Do these terms (salary match + GSW 1st + unprotected 2029 1st) amount to "going all-in" that we'd been discussing in other threads? We still do have assets in the bank, but now our payroll is an absolute disaster waiting to happen (once you grant Tatum's supermax and start thinking about Zinger and Jrue extensions). Like in the best case scenario where we sign all 3 for a few more years of window and have a very-well-paid Big 4, (A) Wyc is paying through the absolute nose in tax every year, and (B) we have no ability to sign rotation depth other than min-salary space exceptions, draft picks and maybe a (new-CBA-reduced) taxpayer MLE. So it's hard to say that we have any more chips we could push into the table even a year or two down the line if the right deal came along, frankly.
Another "hate losing TL but love this trade" datapoint here. Great fucking job Brad, seriously.
The pick situation is totally fine, and they have plenty of picks to deal during Tatum's window. They clearly have an organizational philosophy that late 1sts are much better converted into players, when you have a contender.
Re payroll/2nd apron: I am strongly convinced that Jaylen gets dealt in 2024 or 2025 (when Tatum's contract kicks in). They could turn his salary into 2 good roleplayers and restock draft assets to go after another star who fit better with Tatum. Fighting hard to keep the 5th year and not give full trade kicker will pay dividends then.
No margin for error after investments in coaching staff & payroll. Brad Stevens won't be able to protect the coach again if they get off to a slow start. Wyc wants his title now.
On paper I don't like this. The only way it makes sense to me is if they are confident that Rob will never be Time Lord again.
If you take all of the moves together, they have traded away a lot of depth while adding a pair of frontline players - both of whom have some significant health issues.
I think the case can be made that they are better 1 to 5 now, but also that they are very thin in terms of depth, particularly at C.
I think they are done with "2 bigs" - don't have the depth to use it as their main lineup. They don't really have a 6th man. And their bench will consist of a 37 year old vet, Pritchard, Hauser, some bodies brought in on minimum deals (Banton, Brissett, Mykhailiuk, Stevens), a second round rookie, and Luke Kornet.
I think moves had to happen after the way last year ended, but we are betting a lot on feeding big minutes to guys without the best health track record in KP and JH.
If you take all of the moves together, they have traded away a lot of depth while adding a pair of frontline players - both of whom have some significant health issues.
I think the case can be made that they are better 1 to 5 now, but also that they are very thin in terms of depth, particularly at C.
I think they are done with "2 bigs" - don't have the depth to use it as their main lineup. They don't really have a 6th man. And their bench will consist of a 37 year old vet, Pritchard, Hauser, some bodies brought in on minimum deals (Banton, Brissett, Mykhailiuk, Stevens), a second round rookie, and Luke Kornet.
I think moves had to happen after the way last year ended, but we are betting a lot on feeding big minutes to guys without the best health track record in KP and JH.
So I assume there’s no more room for other pieces other than deep bench filler, right?
One of my frustrations was watching this team play schizophrenic basketball in the playoffs. They were beasts when facing adversity but couldn’t handle success. Whatever the opposite of killer instinct is, that defined them the last two years. Marcus seemed to be one of the reasons for that. IF that assessment is correct, I’m really curious about how changing that out for Jrue will affect the team.
Also, 64% joking, let’s beat MIL in the playoffs and force Giannis to see that adding Dame wouldn’t get him another Chip, making him ask to be traded. Then Brad offers Jaylen ++ and we have a team next season of Jrue, Tatum, Giannis, and KP in the starting lineup.
4-D chess
One of my frustrations was watching this team play schizophrenic basketball in the playoffs. They were beasts when facing adversity but couldn’t handle success. Whatever the opposite of killer instinct is, that defined them the last two years. Marcus seemed to be one of the reasons for that. IF that assessment is correct, I’m really curious about how changing that out for Jrue will affect the team.
Also, 64% joking, let’s beat MIL in the playoffs and force Giannis to see that adding Dame wouldn’t get him another Chip, making him ask to be traded. Then Brad offers Jaylen ++ and we have a team next season of Jrue, Tatum, Giannis, and KP in the starting lineup.
4-D chess
An interesting note from Woj's piece:
"The Celtics were an aggressive suitor for Holiday, 33, and are expected to work to sign him to a long-term deal with free agency looming in the summer of 2024."
Seems like the plan is screw the aprons, screw the luxury tax, let's hang some banners. Exactly what they should be doing exactly when they should be doing it.
"The Celtics were an aggressive suitor for Holiday, 33, and are expected to work to sign him to a long-term deal with free agency looming in the summer of 2024."
Seems like the plan is screw the aprons, screw the luxury tax, let's hang some banners. Exactly what they should be doing exactly when they should be doing it.