Celtics trade Josh Richardson, Romeo Langford and a 1st round pick to Spurs for Derrick White
- Thread starter Cellar-Door
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Yup this opens the door to move Schroder’s expiring for a frontcourt/wing type under control past this year to replace Josh/Romeo. Liking this so far Brad!!
Yeah, the more I look at this trade the more I like it.
If Romeo isn't in your plans (and it looked like he wasn't by his recent playing time), White is a significantly better player than Richardson, and importantly, is a legit PG to use with the bench unit. this year's 1st should be in the 20s, and the swap is so far out... whatever
If Romeo isn't in your plans (and it looked like he wasn't by his recent playing time), White is a significantly better player than Richardson, and importantly, is a legit PG to use with the bench unit. this year's 1st should be in the 20s, and the swap is so far out... whatever
White's a good playmaker isn't he - along with solid shooting, scoring and defending? And we desperately need a playmaker so that might be his biggest plus
These are both right, IMO.
I will add this: If Jayson and Jaylen like the concept of Derrick White coming to town, and being part of this core with them, this helps on the “keeping the stars happy” front.
that's fair
I suspect there is something "more" to the Romeo situation that we don't know. He played well for a few games/showed promise recently and then was stapled to the bench
Giving up the first + swap makes my head hurt. Sengun and the now infamous Desmond Bane picks are starting to pile up while we couldn't get anything out of Romeo and Nesmith. Frustrating (then again Grant and TL are blossoming)
Just adding to what others have noted, Derrick White protects the ball really well. Just 1.9 TOV/36, TOV% of about 12 for his career.
A good add. This team needed another ball handler, especially if Schroder is headed out. White is a middling shooter, but this year is by far his worst performance from three, and he's pretty efficient everywhere else. A good free throw shooter, so his best shooting might be ahead of him. Gets a lot of blocks for a 6'4 guy, advanced metrics really like his defense.
Don't really mind seeing Romeo go. He was probably headed off next year anyway. I love Richardson, but he's not a good passer, and the good three point shooting is probably a mirage.
A good add. This team needed another ball handler, especially if Schroder is headed out. White is a middling shooter, but this year is by far his worst performance from three, and he's pretty efficient everywhere else. A good free throw shooter, so his best shooting might be ahead of him. Gets a lot of blocks for a 6'4 guy, advanced metrics really like his defense.
Don't really mind seeing Romeo go. He was probably headed off next year anyway. I love Richardson, but he's not a good passer, and the good three point shooting is probably a mirage.
If White can make the Js ability to score easier (and his assists should increase) then its probably a decent trade.
This team so desperately needs a real PG.
This team so desperately needs a real PG.
I don't really like the season Derrick White is having; particularly his three point shooting. Richardson felt like he clicked with this team and now you are initiating a new, more ball-dominant player into this offense mid-season. Not sure it raises the ceiling that much this year, but him being relatively cost-controlled for a while gives him more value.
Derrick White is a huge upgrade over Richardson. Better defender, better distributor, and while the shooting is off this year, he’s traditionally been good there, too. Trading picks is a risk but Boston needs to upgrade the actual rotation to avoid the playin.
After seeing the 2028 swap, Whites shooting numbers, contract and the possibility of Smart also leaving, I kind of hate it now.
But I am bullish on Romeo, that’s a part of it.
But I am bullish on Romeo, that’s a part of it.
It does seem like a bit of an overpay, but not significantly. I would have preferred to send Nesmith out as I'm higher on Romeo, but I would guess the Celtics tried that and the Spurs were not interested (correctly). I have to assume this means their internal evaluation of White is high. I don't care about the 2022 first. I would take this to mean they want the end of the bench to be vet roleplayers and not developmental picks at this point. They really shouldn't get in this habit of trading away firsts every year as benhogan points out above, but if they see White as a starter on a championship level team with Tatum/Brown, I think it's worth it.
The response to Josh Richardson getting traded here in the offseason was lukewarm at best. They really rehabilitated his trade value, as most of the takes were that he didn't move the needle and couldn't shoot. Internally they must think White is a true, starting caliber guard and they see Richardson as more of a supporting piece/bench player, probably they expect Richardson's shooting to regress back to his career average, and the extras (Romeo and the firsts) were the worth the cost of getting this upgrade. I get the logic of it and the more I think about it, I don't think Romeo was ever really going to get a chance to be developed here.
The response to Josh Richardson getting traded here in the offseason was lukewarm at best. They really rehabilitated his trade value, as most of the takes were that he didn't move the needle and couldn't shoot. Internally they must think White is a true, starting caliber guard and they see Richardson as more of a supporting piece/bench player, probably they expect Richardson's shooting to regress back to his career average, and the extras (Romeo and the firsts) were the worth the cost of getting this upgrade. I get the logic of it and the more I think about it, I don't think Romeo was ever really going to get a chance to be developed here.
According to cleaningthe glass, he is a PG who looks to pass, by assist rate and assists per usage. Below average turnover rate as a PG but not terrible like Smart's. Like Smart, positive points per shot attempt as a PG.
So, to me, he fits the general frame of 'type of PG the C's need." Not an look-for-my-own-offense-first guy like the last several we have had.
So, to me, he fits the general frame of 'type of PG the C's need." Not an look-for-my-own-offense-first guy like the last several we have had.
Really bizarre reading this thread. Everyones been clamoring for a big guard who can handle the ball, defend, and shoot a little, and we got that guy. Whites having a tough year from three but he's a good candidate to improve there. 85% or better on free throws the last few years, around 35% on threes on big volume last year (6.8 APG). I wouldn't be surprised to see him make a leap as a shooter. Love this deal, think it makes us better immediately.
He seems to me like a nice breakout candidate for that reason. He'll have all kinds of opportunities for assists surrounded by Rob and the Jays, and he'll likely get a ton of lead ball-handling duties he didn't get in San Antonio.
Obviously, the cost matters but a different way to look at this is they added a plus-starter at their biggest position of need who fits the defensive scheme. They can now have a quasi-PG (Smart or White) and a Jay out there at all times, which will help the second unit offensively. And it likely improves the closing lineup at both ends, which was very much needed especially offensively.
Also, as I think more about this, it is pretty obvious who got the better player in this deal, so if that is your [not you personally PKB] metric, C's come out ahead here.
Seeing a previous post about the good corner 3-point percentage of White, and seeing his 85+% free throw shooting, I wonder what the cause of his below average overall long-range shooting percentage is. And if he could show improvement going forward, especially if there are more blue skies with the Jays allowing him open looks.
But I agree, he is prime to put up more assists being the primary guy.
But I agree, he is prime to put up more assists being the primary guy.
yea coming around to the deal
White's transition to IME's system should be seamless. He may be even more advanced since he's only played in the Spurs/ .5 system
They have extended a $11MM TPE for a year and the drive for a banner in 2023 continues
Next year will be GFIN, CAP be damned!
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I'm really impressed how Brad used the Hayward TPE to acquire Richardson as a salary dump (plus Moses Brown), sign him to extension, then turn him into a trade asset to be able to acquire a bonafide starter under a long contract.
Well they can take back a couple million extra, plus they have filler (Bruno/Enes) so anything up to say 9.5 is doable.
Is the shooting really off? If he'd just made eight or nine more threes this year he'd have the same 3PT% as last year. Seems pretty safe to say that his career average is pretty much how good he is as a 3pt shooter: ~34.5%, worse than Richardson, but not substantially so.
Don't like it. Hopefully his shot returns to form.
JRich, RL, a 1st and the rights to swap in 2028 all for Derrick White?
Hope something else is happening, there has to be. That's too much.
JRich, RL, a 1st and the rights to swap in 2028 all for Derrick White?
Hope something else is happening, there has to be. That's too much.
Smart for Collins (with whatever other pieces) is what comes into my head, but not sure that I can get there from the Atlanta perspective.
Otherwise, I'm a bit stumped.
I guess, with wing minutes opening, a Smart for Beasley/McDaniels deal also sort of fits now. Not a fan.
I think you’re shooting a bit too high there…my guess is it’a Schroeder and maybe Nesmith or something smaller for a wing (Reddish was brought up earlier).
Really don’t think they’d move Smart at this point; that would be a weird order of operations
I thought Josh Richardson was playing very well in his role for the Celtics and giving them at least some of what they need in terms of shooting.
When I heard the trade was JRich + FRP for White I wasn't sure the FRP was worth the upgrade.
When I heard that Romeo was added on top, it seems like a rather steep price for someone who doesn't even start for your team.
As others said, if this means Schroder is going out for something that actually helps your team now (not a pair of 2nd rounders), it makes more sense, as then White is your back-up guard in addition to providing some other bench support.
When I heard the trade was JRich + FRP for White I wasn't sure the FRP was worth the upgrade.
When I heard that Romeo was added on top, it seems like a rather steep price for someone who doesn't even start for your team.
As others said, if this means Schroder is going out for something that actually helps your team now (not a pair of 2nd rounders), it makes more sense, as then White is your back-up guard in addition to providing some other bench support.
He may not start the game on the floor but isn’t it pretty much guaranteed that he’s going to be one of the closing 5? I don’t think you put out that type of investment for someone who’s just a bench piece
There are reasons to think playing with Tatum and Brown will give White better looks.
Oh, I agree that's most likely. But I don't read the Bulpett tweet as being about Schroder trade so was trying to think of high impact/low probability deals that would fit with it
Harder to see now, I agree. Is this where they revisit the Schroder for Justin Holiday kind of deal? I wonder who they could find in that territory.
Someone else said it, but with Derrick White on board ,Smart for Beasley and Jaden makes sense from a roster POV.
The team really needs a shooter now. Unless BS thinks non shooters is the new OBP.
I guess, but don't put too much on this year, White has been a better 3pt shooter last 3 years than Richardson, and better for his career than Schroder. Good reason to think he's not really a shooting downgrade, so any Schroder trade that brings a better shooter is probably an overall shooting upgrade across 2 trades