Celtics Offseason Primer

Euclis20

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The Memphis pick would've been unprotected the following season if it didn't convey when they picked Nesmith(was top 6 protected then)

I think about this pick way too much. As you said, Memphis hitting Ja was really unlucky for Boston.

If they don't jump in lottery that year, Boston picks in the 9-10 range, and maybe takes Herro(or PJ Washington, Cam Johnson)
If they jump to any other top 4 spot than 2nd that year, the 2020 pick is likely better and maybe they get Haliburton.
If they stunk enough that their pick is in the top 6 and it rolls over to unprotected in 2021, could've been in a dream scenario picking up high in that draft.

Very unlucky that pick ended up way down near the bottom of expected outcomes.
Eh, Memphis has made the playoffs 9 times in the last 12 years. Without much hindsight, getting the 14th pick in the draft is a pretty decent outcome for Boston, even if the player didn't work out and it could have been better if a few things had been different.

Sacramento won 39 games the year we had their pick, their best in the last finish in the last 16 years. Now THAT'S bad luck.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Dec 22, 2002
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The Memphis pick would've been unprotected the following season if it didn't convey when they picked Nesmith(was top 6 protected then)

I think about this pick way too much. As you said, Memphis hitting Ja was really unlucky for Boston.

If they don't jump in lottery that year, Boston picks in the 9-10 range, and maybe takes Herro(or PJ Washington, Cam Johnson)
If they jump to any other top 4 spot than 2nd that year, the 2020 pick is likely better and maybe they get Haliburton.
If they stunk enough that their pick is in the top 6 and it rolls over to unprotected in 2021, could've been in a dream scenario picking up high in that draft.

Very unlucky that pick ended up way down near the bottom of expected outcomes.
They were unlucky in the Romeo draft as there wasn't much talent selected after him. There were enough good players drafted after Aaron Nesmith that it shouldn't have mattered much. Though actually looking at the Romeo draft, there were a few good players at the end of the 1st.

It sucks both were total misses for the C's though. They are both too young to completely write off but their time here is over. Herro or Haliburton would have changed things a lot, but Bey, Anthony, Stewart, Maxey would be huge additions too. So many players taken after Nesmith.
 

mcpickl

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Jul 23, 2007
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Eh, Memphis has made the playoffs 9 times in the last 12 years. Without much hindsight, getting the 14th pick in the draft is a pretty decent outcome for Boston, even if the player didn't work out and it could have been better if a few things had been different.

Sacramento won 39 games the year we had their pick, their best in the last finish in the last 16 years. Now THAT'S bad luck.
They were catching that pick from Memphis at a perfect time though, they were nearing the end of the run.

The first year they had the pick, their 4 leading scores were 29 year old Mike Conley, 32 year old Marc Gasol, 35 year old Zach Randolph and 35 year old Tony Allen.

That pick was considered a prize looking into the future at that time as they were headed for rapid decline.
 

Euclis20

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They were catching that pick from Memphis at a perfect time though, they were nearing the end of the run.

The first year they had the pick, their 4 leading scores were 29 year old Mike Conley, 32 year old Marc Gasol, 35 year old Zach Randolph and 35 year old Tony Allen.

That pick was considered a prize looking into the future at that time as they were headed for rapid decline.
Yeah they almost timed it perfectly, but I still can't be upset about getting a [late] lottery pick from a team that has been better than average for most of the last dozen years. In addition to the Kings pick, I'll be a lot more unhappy about how the lost draft pick from the Kyrie trade. There was an incredible amount of talent picked in the first 7 spots after that pick (SGA, both Bridges, Porter Jr, Sexton) and a number of solid role players picked later in the 1st round (Lonnie Walker, Huerter, Grayson Allen, Anfernee Simmons, Shamet, Divencenzo). There were even some gems available in the 2nd round (Mitchell Robinson, Brunson, Devonte Graham, Bruce Brown). Man that draft was stacked.
 

benhogan

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Nov 2, 2007
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Yeah they almost timed it perfectly, but I still can't be upset about getting a [late] lottery pick from a team that has been better than average for most of the last dozen years. In addition to the Kings pick, I'll be a lot more unhappy about how the lost draft pick from the Kyrie trade. There was an incredible amount of talent picked in the first 7 spots after that pick (SGA, both Bridges, Porter Jr, Sexton) and a number of solid role players picked later in the 1st round (Lonnie Walker, Huerter, Grayson Allen, Anfernee Simmons, Shamet, Divencenzo). There were even some gems available in the 2nd round (Mitchell Robinson, Brunson, Devonte Graham, Bruce Brown). Man that draft was stacked.
Indeed, helluva a draft

2nd team All-Defensive Center is wondering why he was excluded from your list ;)
 

BigSoxFan

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Yeah they almost timed it perfectly, but I still can't be upset about getting a [late] lottery pick from a team that has been better than average for most of the last dozen years. In addition to the Kings pick, I'll be a lot more unhappy about how the lost draft pick from the Kyrie trade. There was an incredible amount of talent picked in the first 7 spots after that pick (SGA, both Bridges, Porter Jr, Sexton) and a number of solid role players picked later in the 1st round (Lonnie Walker, Huerter, Grayson Allen, Anfernee Simmons, Shamet, Divencenzo). There were even some gems available in the 2nd round (Mitchell Robinson, Brunson, Devonte Graham, Bruce Brown). Man that draft was stacked.
All true but you make that Kyrie trade 100 times out of 100. At the time, his reputation was more along the lines of someone wanting to get out of LeBron’s shadow. Given IT’s injury and where the Jays were in their development, it was pretty much a steal to get prime Kyrie for the 8th pick, especially given the Hayward signing. Too bad it didn’t work out due to his turn to crazy town.
 

Euclis20

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Indeed, helluva a draft

2nd team All-Defensive Center is wondering why he was excluded from your list ;)
Only because we didn't miss out on him. I also didn't mention the top of the draft (Luka, Young, Ayton). I think in a dozen years, we look back at this as one of the all time drafts.

All true but you make that Kyrie trade 100 times out of 100. At the time, his reputation was more along the lines of someone wanting to get out of LeBron’s shadow. Given IT’s injury and where the Jays were in their development, it was pretty much a steal to get prime Kyrie for the 8th pick, especially given the Hayward signing. Too bad it didn’t work out due to his turn to crazy town.
Yup. I'm a firm believer in the idea that a trade not working out does not necessarily mean it was the wrong move to make.
 

kazuneko

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All true but you make that Kyrie trade 100 times out of 100. At the time, his reputation was more along the lines of someone wanting to get out of LeBron’s shadow. Given IT’s injury and where the Jays were in their development, it was pretty much a steal to get prime Kyrie for the 8th pick, especially given the Hayward signing. Too bad it didn’t work out due to his turn to crazy town.
I really think you are understating how much Kyrie was coming with well-known red flags. There were plenty of reports of him acting bizarre and entitled prior to the trade, and in fact the trade happens because of those concerns (i.e. Kyrie’s trade demand itself was considered concerning). He apparently didn’t speak to any of his teammates (in either games or practices) for a significant period of time during the playoffs while reaching out to ownership about his unhappiness (on a legit championship contender) because he saw himself as a “franchise player”. Because of these very concerns Phoenix reportedly had no interest in pursuing him as they had inside info from former Cleveland coach James Jones (who they had recently hired) about how much a disruptive influence Kyrie was. That was widely reported, so it was clearly info other teams knew as well.
Also, at the time of the trade it wasn’t the 8th pick in an all-time great draft, but the unprotected rights to the worst team in the league’s pick in that draft (which was already expected to be an all-time great draft). I thought it was a bad trade at the time and still see it as a bad trade, but it goes without saying that it could have been much, much worse. At the time of the trade the Nets were the most likely candidate for the number 1 pick, so the pick falling to 8 was pretty bad luck for Cleveland. Obviously, if the Cavaliers were just a bit more fortunate the cost for Kyrie could have been Luka Doncic or Trae Young. Even at the 8 pick, had they been smarter they could have had SGA or Miles Bridges.
 

BigSoxFan

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I really think you are understating how much Kyrie was coming with well-known red flags. There were plenty of reports of him acting bizarre and entitled prior to the trade, and in fact the trade happens because of those concerns (i.e. Kyrie’s trade demand itself was considered concerning). He apparently didn’t speak to any of his teammates (in either games or practices) for a significant period of time during the playoffs while reaching out to ownership about his unhappiness (on a legit championship contender) because he saw himself as a “franchise player”. Because of these very concerns Phoenix reportedly had no interest in pursuing him as they had inside info from former Cleveland coach James Jones (who they had recently hired) about how much a disruptive influence Kyrie was. That was widely reported, so it was clearly info other teams knew as well.
Also, at the time of the trade it wasn’t the 8th pick in an all-time great draft, but the unprotected rights to the worst team in the league’s pick in that draft (which was already expected to be an all-time great draft). I thought it was a bad trade at the time and still see it as a bad trade, but it goes without saying that it could have been much, much worse. At the time of the trade the Nets were the most likely candidate for the number 1 pick, so the pick falling to 8 was pretty bad luck for Cleveland. Obviously, if the Cavaliers were just a bit more fortunate the cost for Kyrie could have been Luka Doncic or Trae Young. Even at the 8 pick, had they been smarter they could have had SGA or Miles Bridges.
There were clearly red flags but his weirdness wasn’t as well know or pronounced. You’re right about the draft pick. That could have turned out really bad if it becomes a top 2-3 pick. But I ultimately think that Ainge was motivated by needed a more experienced star. He had Horford. He had Hayward. He was probably looking for another vet instead of another rookie.

I do think it would be fascinating to learn about the types of deals Ainge turned down during our pick bonanza. Must have been some interesting options.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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There were clearly red flags but his weirdness wasn’t as well know or pronounced. You’re right about the draft pick. That could have turned out really bad if it becomes a top 2-3 pick. But I ultimately think that Ainge was motivated by needed a more experienced star. He had Horford. He had Hayward. He was probably looking for another vet instead of another rookie.
He also had an issue with IT4 that the trade solved.
 

kazuneko

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There were clearly red flags but his weirdness wasn’t as well know or pronounced. You’re right about the draft pick. That could have turned out really bad if it becomes a top 2-3 pick. But I ultimately think that Ainge was motivated by needed a more experienced star. He had Horford. He had Hayward. He was probably looking for another vet instead of another rookie.
Sure, it’s just hard to hear the trade summarized as no-brainer when the big fears that those of us that opposed it from the start ended up fully realized (well, at least the “Kyrie is a headcase fears”, the fear that the pick was going to turn into Doncic didn’t pan out). In other words, Ainge gambled that Kyrie’s talent was worth the known concerns about his personality and it turns out he was wrong. Phoenix chose to not take that gamble and ended up a championship contending team with Ayton (instead of Kyrie).
 
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JM3

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Nets were never going to finish at the very bottom with all those teams with actual incentive to tank, but yeah, there were risks.
 

kazuneko

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Nets were never going to finish at the very bottom with all those teams with actual incentive to tank, but yeah, there were risks.
If Phoenix had traded it’s pick they also would have had no incentive to tank. The fact that once the pick is traded there is no incentive to tank is embedded in any “unprotected pick for player” trade. That said, in the abstract you’d always prefer the worst team’s unprotected pick over any other teams. When the trade happened, that team was the Nets, meaning that pick was particularly valuable.
 

Strike4

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