Celtics FA/Trade Rumors and News

nighthob

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For 1 year remember, then you decide what to do with Hayward.

More likely though, if you trade Smart and Brown for Harden, you want to keep Hayward long-term and dump Kemba, the fit of Kemba and Harden is awful.
I'm not sure you can afford to trade your best defensive player as a throw in for Harden. Much less the draft capital that you have to include to beat the Philly offer.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'm not sure you can afford to trade your best defensive player as a throw in for Harden. Much less the draft capital that you have to include to beat the Philly offer.
I don't think you have much of an option, who else can you use for salary match and talent?
I guess you could try to trade Kemba to a third team to get more assets for the deal and salary match?
That's the issue though, if you're HOU, Brown and picks probably isn't enough. PHI can offer Simmons and picks, which is a better offer.

I don't like a Harden deal overall, but if I'm HOU, I want Brown and Smart and picks. I might settle for Brown and picks, and all the value you get back for Kemba but only half the salary.
 

BigSoxFan

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I don't think you have much of an option, who else can you use for salary match and talent?
I guess you could try to trade Kemba to a third team to get more assets for the deal and salary match?
That's the issue though, if you're HOU, Brown and picks probably isn't enough. PHI can offer Simmons and picks, which is a better offer.

I don't like a Harden deal overall, but if I'm HOU, I want Brown and Smart and picks. I might settle for Brown and picks, and all the value you get back for Kemba but only half the salary.
Philly loves Simmons though. He may be untouchable with that front office/ownership group.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I'm not sure you can afford to trade your best defensive player as a throw in for Harden. Much less the draft capital that you have to include to beat the Philly offer.
The challenge of course is that we don't know there is such a philly offer
 

nighthob

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Philly loves Simmons though. He may be untouchable with that front office/ownership group.
I mean it is Morey's team now and the Sixers' two stars are one of the worst pairings in the NBA. Is Mad Scientist Morey really going to roll it back and say "This time I will make it wooooork... buwahahahaha"? Add to that Harden/Embiid/Harris might be a 55 win team and a serious title contender and I can't see anything against it.
 

kazuneko

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It seems like the Cs best offer for Harden would be a three way that sends Kemba to a third team (possibly to the Knicks) and draft capital from that team to Houston. That would allow the Cs to include more picks and keep Smart, without having to end up with a Kemba/Harden backcourt. If it could allow them the financial flexibility to keep GH that would be even better. A team led by by a GH, JT & Harden threesome would seem like a contender..
 
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BigSoxFan

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I mean it is Morey's team now and the Sixers' two stars are one of the worst pairings in the NBA. Is Mad Scientist Morey really going to roll it back and say "This time I will make it wooooork... buwahahahaha"? Add to that Harden/Embiid/Harris might be a 55 win team and a serious title contender and I can't see anything against it.
It makes sense. I just know that ownership group loves Simmons. Morey hasn't exactly earned their trust just yet. Will be interesting to see but I would be relatively surprised if Simmons gets dealt.
 

nighthob

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They hired him to be the man in charge. He isn't some lowly assistant. He's the BMOC. So they certainly trust him. And no matter how much the owners like Simmons, having the Sixers be a tier 1 contender has to be a lot more appealing for them in terms of ticket prices for 2022 when the world returns to normal.
 

NomarsFool

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I'd probably come around, but James Harden might be my least favorite player in the entire NBA. Other than bringing Kyrie back, I'm not sure there's a move I'd be less excited about.
 

The Social Chair

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Harden / Smart / Tatum / Brown is something but I don't see any chance of that happening. I doubt Harden wants to come to Boston anyway.
 

Average Game James

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I just don’t want to have to root for Harden. I would seriously watch way less. He’s really good, but I just hate watching it. Not to mention he’d probably get to Boston and immediately see 30% fewer foul calls...
 

RG33

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I'd probably come around, but James Harden might be my least favorite player in the entire NBA. Other than bringing Kyrie back, I'm not sure there's a move I'd be less excited about.
Totally agree.

However, if they did so and kept Tatum/Walker/Smart - it would be some lineup. . ...
 

BigSoxFan

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I just don’t want to have to root for Harden. I would seriously watch way less. He’s really good, but I just hate watching it. Not to mention he’d probably get to Boston and immediately see 30% fewer foul calls...
Ha, that would actually be the perfect test for our "we're getting hosed" theory. If the Celtics could acquire Harden via trading Kemba/Hayward and keep Smart in the process, I would be a lot more intrigued about this remote possibility.
 

nighthob

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At the very least Boston's jumping in is going to raise the acquisition price for Philly (and keep him out of Brooklyn).
 

the moops

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I remember Harden from his OKC days when he didn't have the ball in his hands 95% of the time and he moved quite well off ball. Whether he can or would change his game at this point is unknown. But he seems willing to go to BRK - where he most assuredly wouldn't get to run ISO after ISO
 

DJnVa

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I would have no problem rooting for him. He's not a bad dude. *If* he's efficient and helps the Celtics win, I really don't care about style points.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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I simultaneously feel that it would be a decent all-in move to bring in Harden and also that I would hate it.

I also think it’s pretty unlikely given how often these moves are dependent on where the player/agent want to go.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't love Harden's fit, on or off the court, BUT.....

If you are keeping Brown and Tatum and sending out Kemba here is the case for it:

You make him a PG full-time.

Now you still have too many guys who need the ball, but one of the flaws of Harden/CP3 and Harden/RW was that they were PGs which made it worse, as a lot of their value was in their playmaking.

If you use Harden as your Luka (they are shockingly similar) and can get him to buy into staying involved off-ball....

Harden/Smart/Brown/Tatum/Theis is a nasty closing 5 on both ends (Harden isn't great defensively but he's better, also you can hide him on bigger players since the only part of defense where he is actually good is in the post because he's built like a fire hydrant)
 

Zincman

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In the event that Boston gets Harden with Kemba and GH departing, I would be wary that a Harden, Smart, JT and JB grouping would be nearly as effective as some are saying. What happens if JB starts getting 4 shots a game, JT loses his alpha status, Marcus and Harden have fist fights over Harden's sorry defense and the development of the young role players is stunted. Isn't that a possible scenario?
 

Cellar-Door

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In the event that Boston gets Harden with Kemba and GH departing, I would be wary that a Harden, Smart, JT and JB grouping would be nearly as effective as some are saying. What happens if JB starts getting 4 shots a game, JT loses his alpha status, Marcus and Harden have fist fights over Harden's sorry defense and the development of the young role players is stunted. Isn't that a possible scenario?
I mean sure, it is (well except the defense thing, Harden's a better defender than any of our last 3 "star" PGs).
The problem is... at a certain point you need at least 1 top 5-8 player in the league to win the title. Harden is one of those guys, if Tatum and Brown can't handle deferring to Harden, they won't defer to anyone and the ceiling of this team is likely capped.

The question is balancing the concerns with the upside of.... "what do you get if you take the best player carrying a perennial West contender and give him a much better supporting cast?"
 

benhogan

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In the event that Boston gets Harden with Kemba and GH departing, I would be wary that a Harden, Smart, JT and JB grouping would be nearly as effective as some are saying. What happens if JB starts getting 4 shots a game, JT loses his alpha status, Marcus and Harden have fist fights over Harden's sorry defense and the development of the young role players is stunted. Isn't that a possible scenario?
If Harden came here and took all of Kemba's shots + all of Hayward's shots + left 4 shots for Jaylen' shots that would be ~ 40 shots/game... JH's highest FGA was a season ago at 24.5 and he'd be surrounded by much better talent.

Anyways I'd put a 1% chance of landing Harden. Danny just driving up the freight.
 

Marciano490

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I don’t know much about basketball - is Harden the type of dude who would fuck up Brown and Tatum’s development?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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This market is where Ainge's somewhat unique status in his organization (i.e. he has the blessing to play the long game) makes him the best driver of price action. He clearly isn't afraid to take big swings so even if other teams have a leg up in negotiating a deal, just the threat of Ainge coming in has an impact.

In the end, getting a convoluted, multi-team trade done is very tough, especially in today's league. However, even if Boston really has no shot at a player, Ainge's presence can juice the cost enough to potentially hurt that team down the road.

On the other hand, with time to consider what a Harden/Celtics pairing might look like, I admit to being intrigued. At the very least, you have to think Harden would be excited not to have to deal with Smart giving him bypass a few times a year.
 
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scottyno

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I don’t know much about basketball - is Harden the type of dude who would fuck up Brown and Tatum’s development?
If Hayward and Kemba both went it still leaves plenty of shots for Tatum and Brown, Harden isn't Kobe where he isn't willing to pass the ball, he's been among the top assist leaders for years. It also basically guarantees no one is ever going to double team Tatum again.
 

PedroKsBambino

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If you could actually do Kemba and Hayward and picks I think you have to. I don’t really see why Houston would do it without Jaylen—that is where it gets tough.
 

Euclis20

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For the life of me, I don't understand why Atlanta would give up anything for Hayward when they've got the cap space to just sign him outright. I also don't exactly understand why Hayward would want to go to Atlanta, but that's at least a possibility.
 

Lazy vs Crazy

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For the life of me, I don't understand why Atlanta would give up anything for Hayward when they've got the cap space to just sign him outright. I also don't exactly understand why Hayward would want to go to Atlanta, but that's at least a possibility.
Feel like a leverage play - "I'll just sign with ATL if you don't pay me enough or send me where I want to go." I don't think Atlanta is a sign and trade possibility.
 

Cellar-Door

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Any chance Hunter or Reddish would be in play?
Almost certainly not

For the life of me, I don't understand why Atlanta would give up anything for Hayward when they've got the cap space to just sign him outright. I also don't exactly understand why Hayward would want to go to Atlanta, but that's at least a possibility.
One of the first lines in the article is to point out that the Hawks could just sign him:
"Atlanta is equipped with the most cap space in the league at around $44 million and can simply sign Hayward to a hefty multi-year deal if he decided to decline his option"
I guess maybe they would do a "Sign and trade" where they gave up essentially nothing and gave the Celtics a TPE, since they don't care about being hard capped, but even that is probably wishful thinking.

I would guess Atlanta is the alternative if Hayward can't get a trade to a team he wants.
 

Swedgin

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Feel like a leverage play - "I'll just sign with ATL if you don't pay me enough or send me where I want to go." I don't think Atlanta is a sign and trade possibility.
My thoughts as well. Best guess: Atlanta is stalking horse/leverage play/"safe school" option. There are better teams interested in a S&T, but GH is not such a priority that they are willing to pull the trigger now.
 

Euclis20

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Almost certainly not


One of the first lines in the article is to point out that the Hawks could just sign him:
"Atlanta is equipped with the most cap space in the league at around $44 million and can simply sign Hayward to a hefty multi-year deal if he decided to decline his option"
I guess maybe they would do a "Sign and trade" where they gave up essentially nothing and gave the Celtics a TPE, since they don't care about being hard capped, but even that is probably wishful thinking.

I would guess Atlanta is the alternative if Hayward can't get a trade to a team he wants.
Yeah, I'm not saying the article failed to note that. I just don't understand the point of speculation (on this board) about what Atlanta could send us, because I don't see why they'd send anything. Hayward opting out and signing elsewhere as a free agent is the worst case scenario here, not worth dwelling on what they might kick our way.
 

Imbricus

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Per league source on the Celtics' view of a potential James Harden deal: "No interest."
Thank goodness. Sign me up for the "No Harden Club." They'd have to totally change their game and ship out every draft pick they have for the next five years.

Separately: I worry a bit about the damage to Ainge's reputation in the free agent community, if Hayward leaves grumbling, or if Kemba is shipped out unhappily. Ainge has still got a bad rap among some for what happened with Isaiah. This off season doesn't seem to be helping.
 

DJnVa

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Yeah, I'm not saying the article failed to note that. I just don't understand the point of speculation (on this board) about what Atlanta could send us, because I don't see why they'd send anything. Hayward opting out and signing elsewhere as a free agent is the worst case scenario here, not worth dwelling on what they might kick our way.
We don't actually care if they kick anything our way. Trading him gives us an exception. Atlanta may do that because there may come a time when Atlanta is in that situation and wants someone to work with them.

What did Charlotte get out of the Walker/Rozier S&T that they couldn't have just gotten by each team signing the guys as FAs?
 

RedOctober3829

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The Houston Rockets feel no pressure to trade James Harden or Russell Westbrook regardless of the superstars' strong desire for fresh starts with different franchises and are "willing to get uncomfortable" as training camp opens and the season begins, sources told ESPN.

The Rockets are demanding an especially steep return for Harden, a perennial MVP candidate who has led the NBA in scoring the last three seasons: a proven, young star as a centerpiece along with a massive picks package, according to sources. Houston does not feel obligated to deliver Harden to the Brooklyn Nets, his preferred destination, sources said.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Feel like a leverage play - "I'll just sign with ATL if you don't pay me enough or send me where I want to go." I don't think Atlanta is a sign and trade possibility.
Yeah. Bobby Marks predicted exactly this on Zack Lowe’s podcast three weeks ago, and there was some discussion about it at the time. Gordo’s camp gains leverage by having the Cs think he’ll just opt out and sign there for nothing in return.
 

bsj

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I don’t know if I want Harden, but I am not nearly as quick as some of you to punt on the idea of a top 5 talent, especially when the alternative is him going to a direct competitor
 

scottyno

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We don't actually care if they kick anything our way. Trading him gives us an exception. Atlanta may do that because there may come a time when Atlanta is in that situation and wants someone to work with them.

What did Charlotte get out of the Walker/Rozier S&T that they couldn't have just gotten by each team signing the guys as FAs?
They got rozier because they couldn't sign him outright
 

Light-Tower-Power

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I don’t know if I want Harden, but I am not nearly as quick as some of you to punt on the idea of a top 5 talent, especially when the alternative is him going to a direct competitor
I agree. At the same time, a Kyrie/Harden/Durant Nets team would be so much fun to hate. That’s like Kobe/Gasol and LeBron/Wade/Bosh levels of hate.