Celtics 2019-2020 depth chart and roster

benhogan

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Horford is clearly an exception and a guy who can play both roles. It's why he was great. Most guys are a big, wing, or ballhandler. And even Horford played either wing or big by situation.

Worrying about who's going to play 4 is missing the point.
sure, call them what you like..Just make sure the 5 on the floor play well together, know their roles and match up.

If you stick 4 wings and a point on the floor (Kemba, Smart, JB, JT, GH) they will get roasted. Brad almost always had a 5 on the floor last season. Don't see him playing that line up much at all.

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Cellar-Door

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sure, call them what you like..Just make sure the 5 on the floor play well together, know their roles and match up.

If you stick 4 wings and a point on the floor (Kemba, Smart, JB, JT, GH) they will get roasted most of the time. Like the Celtics did all last season when they tried that nonsense.

Feel free to bookmark
I mean they didn't really do it last season, there are basically no lineups they ran like that. When they went 5 out w/o Horford it was usually Theis as the "big",

There was the Kyrie/Rozier/Smart/Tatum/Morris combo I can find, they were great in the 8 whole minutes they played.
G. Hayward, .M. Morris, .M. Smart, .T. Rozier, .J. Tatum also 8 minutes, huge net positive

Overall, the thing is we didn't get roasted on it last year, but at the same time, we didn't really run it last year either, so there isn't a real clear data point to tell us what it would look like.

Unless..... you consider Theis at 6'8" 240 to be more of a wing. In which case the data says that it was pretty great. 4 of the 6 best lineups (min 30 minutes played) are a combo of 4 guards/wings and Theis, and of the 9 lineups (min 30 minutes) that were net negatives, none contain Theis, and all contain Horford or Baynes.


Makes me think we probably close with a 5 out lineup unless Time Lord, Kanter or Poirier has an AMAZING season.

I'd guess some matchups will be 5 non-bigs, and some matchups 4 non-bigs and 1 Fringe big (Theis or Grant Williams)
 

benhogan

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I mean they didn't really do it last season, there are basically no lineups they ran like that. When they went 5 out w/o Horford it was usually Theis as the "big",

There was the Kyrie/Rozier/Smart/Tatum/Morris combo I can find, they were great in the 8 whole minutes they played.
G. Hayward, .M. Morris, .M. Smart, .T. Rozier, .J. Tatum also 8 minutes, huge net positive

Overall, the thing is we didn't get roasted on it last year, but at the same time, we didn't really run it last year either, so there isn't a real clear data point to tell us what it would look like.

Unless..... you consider Theis at 6'8" 240 to be more of a wing. In which case the data says that it was pretty great. 4 of the 6 best lineups (min 30 minutes played) are a combo of 4 guards/wings and Theis, and of the 9 lineups (min 30 minutes) that were net negatives, none contain Theis, and all contain Horford or Baynes.


Makes me think we probably close with a 5 out lineup unless Time Lord, Kanter or Poirier has an AMAZING season.

I'd guess some matchups will be 5 non-bigs, and some matchups 4 non-bigs and 1 Fringe big (Theis or Grant Williams)
yep, I edited after looking myself. I couldn't find many lineups without a 5 (Al, Baynes, Theis, TL, GY).

I recalled a Milwaukee game (Gordon/Semi) and a Wizard OT game where MaMo was an ineffective 5. But I think injuries at the 5 were the culprit there.

Brad just doesn't do it.

Glad to see you noticed Daniel Theis. He's clearly a 5. Yes, give him more minutes.
 
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Koufax

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I think in the second half of the season Poirier will be closing out games. Maybe sooner than that. He just needs to adjust to the NBA game.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I gladly would have taken Noah Vonleh, Wilson Chandler or Mudiay (all signed to vet min deals) over Yabu
Yes, but would any of those players have signed with the Cs?

The issue is not just finding a player who would take Yabu's salary but finding a player that is willing to take Yabu's salary AND be buried that far down the bench. Most of these guys want to play because they think they can still play.
 

benhogan

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Yes, but would any of those players have signed with the Cs?

The issue is not just finding a player who would take Yabu's salary but finding a player that is willing to take Yabu's salary AND be buried that far down the bench. Most of these guys want to play because they think they can still play.
Makes sense.

It's a fringe move and more NBA vets will become available as rosters shake out. I like the idea of upgrading the roster.

Quinn Cook is available. I remember during the season, before trade deadline, suggesting a Rozier for Cook swap, and was told that GS would never do that. When all along we had the really valuable player
 
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lovegtm

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Interesting post. In that vein, I'm *really* curious about Grant Williams. Yes he's a rookie and he may suck when all is said and done. No idea. But he's 6'7", 240 pounds and, by virtually every article I've read, by far the strongest player in the draft. So he's coming into the league with more than enough NBA strength. This past season with Tennessee he shot 59.3% from two, 32.6% from three (so 56.4% overall from the floor), and 81.9% from the free throw line. I'd like to see that three-point percentage be up around 35-36%, but he's essentially 1/3 from three point land. He averaged 18.8 points and 7.5 rebounds in just 31.9 minutes a game.

I am very interested to see if he can either be a Draymond-type "big" or if he's quick enough to guard wings. For that "big" role, he's certainly (I think anyway) quick enough to guard the bigs like Embiid and Horford and such away from the rim. And he's heavy enough (only 10 pounds lighter than Embiid and 5 pounds lighter than Horford; 30 pounds heavier than Tatum) and strong enough to bang with them down low on the block and not be pushed around. They may shoot over him, but if he's muscling them, maybe that will make it difficult.

Moving forward, this guy could be a really important piece for Boston.
Yeah, he’s an interesting player, especially because of his BBIQ and strength.

The issue you have playing anyone like GWill at the 5 is that you’re giving up soooo much in rim protection that you better be getting it back in switchability, help defense, and offense. It’s really hard to do that—Draymond’s really the only guy so far at that size who has been able to make the tradeoff work in his favor defensively, and he’s a complete freak in terms of anticipation/IQ.
 

BaseballJones

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Yeah, he’s an interesting player, especially because of his BBIQ and strength.

The issue you have playing anyone like GWill at the 5 is that you’re giving up soooo much in rim protection that you better be getting it back in switchability, help defense, and offense. It’s really hard to do that—Draymond’s really the only guy so far at that size who has been able to make the tradeoff work in his favor defensively, and he’s a complete freak in terms of anticipation/IQ.
For sure you lose rim protection. The antidote is to just play really strong man and help defense and don't let opposing players near the rim. The Celtics now have some pretty solid individual defenders: Smart, Brown, Williams, and even Waters (who probably won't get out of the G league) was SEC defensive player of the year.

Put it this way: I'm totally fascinated by this team now and can't wait for the season to start. (from a sports perspective...I mean, I'd like summer to stay a while if you get my drift)
 

lovegtm

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For sure you lose rim protection. The antidote is to just play really strong man and help defense and don't let opposing players near the rim. The Celtics now have some pretty solid individual defenders: Smart, Brown, Williams, and even Waters (who probably won't get out of the G league) was SEC defensive player of the year.

Put it this way: I'm totally fascinated by this team now and can't wait for the season to start. (from a sports perspective...I mean, I'd like summer to stay a while if you get my drift)
I think one low-key awesome thing that the endless NBA offseason has done is make "championship or bust" less important. Or maybe to put it more precisely, it's a MacGuffin. I want the Celtics to win a championship, and these discussions are more interesting with that goal in mind, but the process really is 1000x more engaging than the end state.

I'm probably the minority here, but I get more excited about potential transactions the team can make, and seeing the ways they can try to figure it out on the floor, than I would if LeBron and AD magically decided they liked Boston. I also would say, again in the minority, that I enjoyed 2017-2018 much more than 2007-2008, simply because it was part of a larger narrative arc that wasn't as rushed. 2018-2019 sucked more for the same reason--it was like watching the final season of GoT.

In a league where only one team can win each year, even with parity, it's really good that fans of all teams except the Knicks and the Suns can have things to get really excited about all year.
 

benhogan

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In a league where only one team can win each year, even with parity, it's really good that fans of all teams except the Knicks and the Suns can have things to get really excited about all year.
well, they'll always have NBA draft lottery night to look forward to...:w00t:
 

benhogan

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I think one low-key awesome thing that the endless NBA offseason has done is make "championship or bust" less important. Or maybe to put it more precisely, it's a MacGuffin. I want the Celtics to win a championship, and these discussions are more interesting with that goal in mind, but the process really is 1000x more engaging than the end state.

I'm probably the minority here, but I get more excited about potential transactions the team can make, and seeing the ways they can try to figure it out on the floor, than I would if LeBron and AD magically decided they liked Boston. I also would say, again in the minority, that I enjoyed 2017-2018 much more than 2007-2008, simply because it was part of a larger narrative arc that wasn't as rushed. 2018-2019 sucked more for the same reason--it was like watching the final season of GoT.

In a league where only one team can win each year, even with parity, it's really good that fans of all teams except the Knicks and the Suns can have things to get really excited about all year.
agreed. I think its interesting watching teams take different approaches to re-building (Atlanta last year, Dallas, Memphis) or re-tooling (Indy, GSW, Boston, Toronto last year).

If you are this type of fan this Celtic season its particularly fascinating. The Celtics own a bunch of cheap 'call options' in Kanter, Theis, VP, Yabu that will either play well/add value or get packaged as filler with a draft pick or young player. This kind of flexibility is setting up Danny to make a move at the trade deadline (which will fill up numerous MBPC pages) that the team wasn't capable of making the last 2 seasons.

So this season we'll have plenty of Celtic storylines:
(a) Dec.15-trade deadline deal options
(b) young core turning into stars (Tatum, Brown)
(c) Kemba better than Kyrie
(d) draft picks, TL and Semi development
(e) Smart, team leader
(f) Brad, the return of the genius
 

mcpickl

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Yes, but would any of those players have signed with the Cs?

The issue is not just finding a player who would take Yabu's salary but finding a player that is willing to take Yabu's salary AND be buried that far down the bench. Most of these guys want to play because they think they can still play.
Why do you think a veteran signing in Yabuseles spot would be buried far down the bench?

In the example that was used, Vonleh or Chandler(Mudiay doesn't fit for me) couldn't beat out one of Semi or Grant Williams for minutes?

I think Vonleh would've been the first big off the bench if he signed here.

Of the guys left, my favorite targets would be Rondae Hollis Jefferson and Thabo Sefolosha.

Feel pretty comfortable either guy would be in the Celtics 9 man rotation.
 

lovegtm

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Why do you think a veteran signing in Yabuseles spot would be buried far down the bench?

In the example that was used, Vonleh or Chandler(Mudiay doesn't fit for me) couldn't beat out one of Semi or Grant Williams for minutes?

I think Vonleh would've been the first big off the bench if he signed here.

Of the guys left, my favorite targets would be Rondae Hollis Jefferson and Thabo Sefolosha.

Feel pretty comfortable either guy would be in the Celtics 9 man rotation.
Who would Chandler be playing over? He’s basically the same size as Tatum and Hayward, and isn’t noted for being better at defending in the post than either. The same applies to RHJ and Sefolosha. The only guy who sort of makes sense in that group if you want size is Vonleh.

There aren’t even that many minutes for Langford and GWill as it is, not sure why the Celtics would want to spread it even thinner with vet retreads
 

benhogan

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Why do you think a veteran signing in Yabuseles spot would be buried far down the bench?

In the example that was used, Vonleh or Chandler(Mudiay doesn't fit for me) couldn't beat out one of Semi or Grant Williams for minutes?

I think Vonleh would've been the first big off the bench if he signed here.

Of the guys left, my favorite targets would be Rondae Hollis Jefferson and Thabo Sefolosha.

Feel pretty comfortable either guy would be in the Celtics 9 man rotation.
I'll take it one step further.

Say Vonleh (or Cook) was/is added. When the Celtics deal multiple filler & draft pick, their depth will take a small hit. Having Vonleh as depth would be of value
OR
the trade partner may view Vonleh filler > Yabu filler, which would reduce the amount of draft stock the C's would pay.
OR
maybe Vonleh @23 (or Cook @26) aren't finished products?


It's very fringy/on the edges stuff, but the kind of small detail the Celtics excel at AND there will be many more vets released in the coming weeks/months to choose from.

I understand one could argue that adding another vet on small minutes may prevent our young guys minutes/development OR some grumbling in the locker room. Definitely would need to select the right kind of veteran here.
 
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lovegtm

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I'll take it one step further.

Say Vonleh (or Cook) was/is added. When the Celtics deal multiple filler & draft pick, their depth will take a small hit. Having Vonleh as depth would be of value
OR
the trade partner may view Vonleh filler > Yabu filler, which would reduce the amount of draft stock the C's would pay.
OR
maybe Vonleh @23 (or Cook @26) aren't finished products?


It's very fringy/on the edges stuff, but the kind of small detail the Celtics excel at AND there will be many more vets released in the coming weeks/months to choose from.

I understand one could argue that adding another vet on small minutes may prevent our young guys minutes/development OR some grumbling in the locker room. Definitely would need to select the right kind of veteran here.
I’d like Cook more than a lot of the names mentioned, just because the Celtics are going to need bench shooting. Out of everyone else named, I can squint and see a place for Vonleh maybe. The other names are all purely redundant wings who aren’t big enough to even help against teams with power wings.

It’s also good to look at the minutes available. There are 240/game, and Kemba will play 33-37 of those. The 5-headed center monster will probably play 44-48. Let’s call that 80.

That leaves 160, and based on prior usage, and within MaMo and Rozier gone, they’ll probably have Tatum averaging 35, Brown at 33-35, Smart at 31-33, and Hayward at 31-35 depending on health. Let’s go on the low side and say those guys combine to play 125 mins/night at the wings.

That leaves 35 mins/night total for GWill, Langford, ball handler, and maybe Semi. We’re just not talking about a ton of opportunity here. Obviously injuries happen, but even with that, there’s not much extra room.

A big priority for the front office will be to not repeat last year’s mistake, and I imagine they’d rather be slightly thin early on than have a minutes crunch or guys playing for contracts.
 

Cellar-Door

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I'll take it one step further.

Say Vonleh (or Cook) was/is added. When the Celtics deal multiple filler & draft pick, their depth will take a small hit. Having Vonleh as depth would be of value
OR
the trade partner may view Vonleh filler > Yabu filler, which would reduce the amount of draft stock the C's would pay.
OR
maybe Vonleh @23 (or Cook @26) aren't finished products?


It's very fringy/on the edges stuff, but the kind of small detail the Celtics excel at AND there will be many more vets released in the coming weeks/months to choose from.

I understand one could argue that adding another vet on small minutes may prevent our young guys minutes/development OR some grumbling in the locker room. Definitely would need to select the right kind of veteran here.
I think the opposite is likely true, Yabu has RFA rights, any minimum vet won't have any rights beyond this year, so while both likely have no value, Yabu has slightly higher odds of bringing value, even if it's just as simple a bigger cap hold to keep you over the cap for trade purposes.
 

mcpickl

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Who would Chandler be playing over? He’s basically the same size as Tatum and Hayward, and isn’t noted for being better at defending in the post than either. The same applies to RHJ and Sefolosha. The only guy who sort of makes sense in that group if you want size is Vonleh.

There aren’t even that many minutes for Langford and GWill as it is, not sure why the Celtics would want to spread it even thinner with vet retreads
A veteran signing isn't playing over your starters. They're playing over one of Semi/Grant Williams as a bench player.

I'm not worried one bit about Williams, and especially Langford, getting minutes this season.

If they earn them, they'll get them. I'll be really surprised if a teenager picked in the middle of the first round in Langford plays meaningful minutes this year. Grant Williams has a shot, but I'd rather have a veteran to compete for those minutes against him rather than just hand him a rotation spot.
 

Big John

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I think Yabu is a better player than Vonleh, who is not a good passer or a willing passer. Yabu is also a better shooter. JaMychal Green is another black hole and I don't want him either.

I'm not sure why people fall in love with guys like Vonleh or Cauley-Stein. Yabu is less terrible than either of those guys.

Someone Quinn Cook might make sense in lieu of Yabusele if the Celtics hadn't drafted Edwards.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I think Yabu is a better player than Vonleh, who is not a good passer or a willing passer. Yabu is also a better shooter. JaMychal Green is another black hole and I don't want him either.

I'm not sure why people fall in love with guys like Vonleh or Cauley-Stein. Yabu is less terrible than either of those guys.

Someone Quinn Cook might make sense in lieu of Yabusele if the Celtics hadn't drafted Edwards.
I don't believe anyone here is a huge Vonleh supporter but the guy has been at least replacement level while actually being part of a rotation on a playoff team in Portland. Yabusele, while in a different roster situation, is typically one of the last guys off the bench in garbage time and has done nothing to show he should receive more run.

They are both the same age and I would argue that Stotts, Fizdale and Stevens will use players if they are effective and not run players out who aren't so I ask this? What data, if any, leads you to believe that Yabusele is better at anything than Vonleh?

As for the eye test, I have watched a fair bit of both play and its not even close. Vonleh, while not great or even good, is a far superior player than Yabusele.
 

lovegtm

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A veteran signing isn't playing over your starters. They're playing over one of Semi/Grant Williams as a bench player.

I'm not worried one bit about Williams, and especially Langford, getting minutes this season.

If they earn them, they'll get them. I'll be really surprised if a teenager picked in the middle of the first round in Langford plays meaningful minutes this year. Grant Williams has a shot, but I'd rather have a veteran to compete for those minutes against him rather than just hand him a rotation spot.
Yeah, I mean at this point we're arguing about who will play 10-15 minutes a night, and hoping that GWill will beat the dude out to earn the minutes. Probably a good thing Summer League is coming soon :)

As for Langford, I'd be surprised if he doesn't get 8-15 mins/game. Jaylen got 17 his rookie year, and while he was a higher pick, he was also young and was probably rawer, and the team picked him in an agressive slot in a weak draft. Langford can at least, you know, dribble. Most guys picked in that 10-25 range get decent run their rookie years if they're not total washouts. The team also seemed to emphasize getting Jaylen a decent amount of gametime even when he was lost defensively, and it paid off when he was a lot more with it on defense his 2nd year, so I imagine they'd use that as a blueprint for Langford.
 

Big John

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I don't believe anyone here is a huge Vonleh supporter but the guy has been at least replacement level while actually being part of a rotation on a playoff team in Portland.
I have no idea what "replacement level" means when applied to NBA players. If you want to move beyond stats, I guess I have a different set of eyeballs.

Of the four "local" kids who are current NBA fringe players (Vonleh, Noel, MCW, Layman), I'll take Layman, and it's no surprise to me that Layman will be making more money next year than any of them.
 

mcpickl

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Yeah, I mean at this point we're arguing about who will play 10-15 minutes a night, and hoping that GWill will beat the dude out to earn the minutes. Probably a good thing Summer League is coming soon :)

As for Langford, I'd be surprised if he doesn't get 8-15 mins/game. Jaylen got 17 his rookie year, and while he was a higher pick, he was also young and was probably rawer, and the team picked him in an agressive slot in a weak draft. Langford can at least, you know, dribble. Most guys picked in that 10-25 range get decent run their rookie years if they're not total washouts. The team also seemed to emphasize getting Jaylen a decent amount of gametime even when he was lost defensively, and it paid off when he was a lot more with it on defense his 2nd year, so I imagine they'd use that as a blueprint for Langford.
The last two young guards the Celtics chose in the middle of the first round, Terry Rozier and James Young, spent a decent amount of their rookie season in rhe G league and neither cracked 350 minutes in the NBA as a rookie.

That would be my guess for Langford this year.
 

the moops

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Not sure how anyone can come away with Yabu is a better player/shooter/passer. Vonleh shot better from the free throw line and the three point line. Vonleh has better per 36 #s in assists, rebounds, blocks, tunrovers, and fouls. Last year was both their age 23 seasons. Neither one is terribly good, but Yabusele has shown nothing, while Vonleh has at least managed to play over 5000 minutes in his young career (Yabusele has played less than 500)
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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It’s also good to look at the minutes available. There are 240/game, and Kemba will play 33-37 of those. The 5-headed center monster will probably play 44-48. Let’s call that 80.

That leaves 160, and based on prior usage, and within MaMo and Rozier gone, they’ll probably have Tatum averaging 35, Brown at 33-35, Smart at 31-33, and Hayward at 31-35 depending on health. Let’s go on the low side and say those guys combine to play 125 mins/night at the wings.

That leaves 35 mins/night total for GWill, Langford, ball handler, and maybe Semi. We’re just not talking about a ton of opportunity here. Obviously injuries happen, but even with that, there’s not much extra room.
I think Semi is going to get regular minutes this year. The coaching staff loves him and his work ethic and he's been a good soldier for the last two years and frankly, they have to find out what they have with him. You can tell he was trying to expand his game last year by going to the hoop more. I know his 3p% has been 32% and 31.5% but he's only shot 214 of them and if he can get his 3P% up to 37%, doesn't he become a pretty valuable chip?

BTW, I hope someone has the wherewithal to put up on youtube the weight room battles between Semi and GWill. Talk about legendary.
 

Big John

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Not sure how anyone can come away with Yabu is a better player/shooter/passer. Vonleh shot better from the free throw line and the three point line. Vonleh has better per 36 #s in assists, rebounds, blocks, tunrovers, and fouls. Last year was both their age 23 seasons. Neither one is terribly good, but Yabusele has shown nothing, while Vonleh has at least managed to play over 5000 minutes in his young career (Yabusele has played less than 500)

Go on basketball reference.com and look at their career per-36 numbers. Yabu's are better, except for rebounding. Both sample sizes are fairly small, though, and I don't think the numbers prove much, one way or the other. Vonleh got to play rotation minutes on a truly terrible Knicks team last year. If Yabu had played 25 mpg on that 17-win team, he would have put up similar--and perhaps better-- offensive numbers.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Go on basketball reference.com and look at their career per-36 numbers. Yabu's are better, except for rebounding. Both sample sizes are fairly small, though, and I don't think the numbers prove much, one way or the other. Vonleh got to play rotation minutes on a truly terrible Knicks team last year. If Yabu had played 25 mpg on that 17-win team, he would have put up similar--and perhaps better-- offensive numbers.
Yabusele isn't better in FG or FT either per 36 but the more important adjustment that you need to make is that Vonleh has averaged ~ 17-18 MPG over the course of his career while Yabusele has averaged about seven MPG. The distinction there is that at least some of Vonleh's minutes are against real NBA rotation players whereas the vast majority of Yabusele's slim NBA minutes are against other end-of-bench players like him.

Let's cut to the chase and say that, based on your eyes, Yabusele is the superior player however the data doesn't really support that unless you spin it. Clearly Brad Stevens and the Celtics braintrust don't seem to agree that Yabusele is being underutilized because his minutes actually went down this year. To be fair, the well documented roster issues had something to do with it but not all because the Celtics could always use more wing play - and yet he doesn't seem to get much except the last minutes off the bench.
 

lovegtm

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Wait, we’re arguing now about whether or not Yabu is good at basketball? Dude is a stiff, the only debate is whether the Celtics pay him or someone else marginally less stiff to be ballast and bring joy to Twitter.
 

DrewDawg

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Are we really comparing Vonleh’s 5000+ minutes with Yabu’s less than 500 garbage time minutes?
 

nighthob

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Wait, we’re arguing now about whether or not Yabu is good at basketball? Dude is a stiff, the only debate is whether the Celtics pay him or someone else marginally less stiff to be ballast and bring joy to Twitter.

The whole argument is bizarre. Why are we even discussing upgrades to the 12th spot on the roster? I mean, sure, if Kawhi had decided to sign with the Celtics in a sign & trade and Boston were a title frontrunner then by all means, it’s vital that they find a C upgrade. But there’s a 0% chance of them winning a title and this year is about finding out what they have and building value for the future.

A marginally less crappy player than Yabu Dabu Du is irrelevant to finding out how much of his athleticism Gordon Hayward can get back, and how much Jayson Tatum has improved on pull-up treys and how assertive he can be on the offensive end. Or how much Jaylen Brown has improved offensively.
 

Big John

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Am I supposed to be impressed by the minutes Vonleh got on a Knicks team that was trying to lose?

I agree this is a bizarre argument. Who cares if Vonleh is marginally better than Yabu? If either one gets significant minutes on this year's Celtics team, it means that the team is in deep trouble. Moving Yabu for Vonleh isn't worth the administrative overhead of submitting the paperwork to the league.
 

Cellar-Door

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Vonleh had a breakout year last year with the Knicks, he broke-out to being a not very good player from being truly awful. I'd say before last season he showed less quality his first 4 years than Yabu did his first 2.

I don't get the idea that Vonleh is good because he got a bunch of minutes off the bench for a couple mediocre Blazers teams that had invested heavily in acquiring him. They then saw enough and paid the Bulls to take him off their hands (and the team's record improved because they got to play NBA caliber players for those minutes), he didn't get re-signed by that terrible Bulls team, and the Knicks got him for the minimum, where they played him because they were tanking, he was less awful, but still pretty bad.

Yabu doesn't get minutes because he's spent 2 years on a title chasing team that had some of the best depth in the league. It Yabu were on the Bulls and Knicks the last 2 years he'd probably have gotten over a 1000 minutes each year.


TLDR, Noah Vonleh is bad, most of his career he has been terrible, and it's unlikely he'll be not bad in the future, Yabu has barely played, and when he did he was pretty bad, but there is no reason to think he'll be any worse than Vonleh going forward either.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Nobody in this thread is suggesting that Vonleh is decent or even good. There is a basis, however, to argue that he is better than Yabusele. As others have noted, its a silly argument and not worth any more time though I find it humorous that the person who first proposed it is also now admitting that its pointless.
 

Jimbodandy

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The whole argument is bizarre. Why are we even discussing upgrades to the 12th spot on the roster? I mean, sure, if Kawhi had decided to sign with the Celtics in a sign & trade and Boston were a title frontrunner then by all means, it’s vital that they find a C upgrade. But there’s a 0% chance of them winning a title and this year is about finding out what they have and building value for the future.

A marginally less crappy player than Yabu Dabu Du is irrelevant to finding out how much of his athleticism Gordon Hayward can get back, and how much Jayson Tatum has improved on pull-up treys and how assertive he can be on the offensive end. Or how much Jaylen Brown has improved offensively.
This.

I'm dumbfounded on why replacing a guy who's not going to play with another guy who's not going to play is a thing.
 

Cellar-Door

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Granted, he hasn't played much, but I haven't seen one iota of anything to indicate that Yabu is an NBA rotation guy, or ever will be.
The best argument for it is that in limited minutes he's actually been acceptable as a defender. On offense, he can pass, set screens and that's about it so far
 

bsj

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I keep waiting for the East to rise and players still pour into the West. Crazy at it seems, the Celtics still have a shot at being a ECF team this year and if things break right, maybe even getting out of the Conf.
 

lovegtm

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I keep waiting for the East to rise and players still pour into the West. Crazy at it seems, the Celtics still have a shot at being a ECF team this year and if things break right, maybe even getting out of the Conf.
I mean, this year the East gained KD, and lost Kawhi (who was in the west 2 years ago). Where's the pour?
 

lovegtm

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I wonder what kind of asset the Thunder would be willing to attach to Adams’s contract now?
Yeah, that's an interesting one to me, just because it then becomes an expiring in 20-21, and becomes a great matching piece for a star.

The problem is that I don't know that the Celtics have the bad contracts to get to $20M...need to check when the dust settles.
 

nighthob

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Yeah, that's an interesting one to me, just because it then becomes an expiring in 20-21, and becomes a great matching piece for a star.

The problem is that I don't know that the Celtics have the bad contracts to get to $20M...need to check when the dust settles.
Their only real bet would be to convince Philly to agree to take Horford in a sign & trade, which would (when combined with the Baynes deal) create a TPE large enough to absorb Adams outright. Adams would definitely come in handy against Philly.
 

DavidTai

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An alternative might be to just trade for Marc Gasol at the trade deadline if the team shakes out well enough. Toronto probably would be looking to drop Gasol if that team doesn't do well enough.
 

lovegtm

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An alternative might be to just trade for Marc Gasol at the trade deadline if the team shakes out well enough. Toronto probably would be looking to drop Gasol if that team doesn't do well enough.
Would be nice, but same salary-matching issue that nighthob noted.
 

JCizzle

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I know he just won a championship, but didn't most people want to avoid Gasol last year even if the Grizz offered him up for free? I'm curious how he looks without Kawhi next year.
 

Koufax

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Wow, great memory. Exactly so and probably just as misguided.
 

benhogan

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If OKC blows this up and wants to save some $$$, the Celtics could offer Yabu/TL for Jerami Grant.
(Works on ESPN trade machine)

This would also open up a roster spot for Tacko.
 

lovegtm

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If OKC blows this up and wants to save some $$$, the Celtics could offer Yabu/TL for Jerami Grant.
(Works on ESPN trade machine)

This would also open up a roster spot for Tacko.
TL and Tacko are both long shots to hit their upside. TL’s upside is Gobert. Tacko’s upside is more playable Boban. Why would the Celtics prioritize the latter, in order to get Jerami Grant (for one guaranteed year)?

I know everyone wants to see a slightly bigger dude at the “4”, but I just don’t think the Celtics are going to make moves that affect the wing until they see where Tatum, Brown, and Hayward are at after the summer. I get that it’s frustrating, but anything else would be irresponsible imo.

The team has learned from last year that you really, really don’t want minutes logjams with contract year guys, and adding any wing on his final year would create that situation.