You know Simmons still reads this thread, right (how could he not)?
Hey sprtsguy33, you can go get that latte now and we won't say shit about it!
Hey sprtsguy33, you can go get that latte now and we won't say shit about it!
Bill Simmons: Good Luck With Your Life.
- Thread starter ifmanis5
- Start date
If ESPN's intent was to suspend Simmons for insubordination, they have failed miserably in getting out that message. Every conversation I've seen on Twitter or I've had with someone I know thinks ESPN is supporting the NFL's meager handling of DV issues and trying to silence Goodell's critics. I don't agree with that black&white analysis but that seems to be the takeaway from more casual observers.
Apparently, my link didn't work from earlier but ESPN, itself, seems to be saying here that it suspended Simmons more for his (overly harsh) criticism of Goodell than anything else.
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/11586403/espn-suspends-bill-simmons-3-weeks-nfl-comments
Apparently, my link didn't work from earlier but ESPN, itself, seems to be saying here that it suspended Simmons more for his (overly harsh) criticism of Goodell than anything else.
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/11586403/espn-suspends-bill-simmons-3-weeks-nfl-comments
You have won the internet today. There were many challengers, and yet you stared them all down and, ultimately, delivered in the clutch with no remorse. Your prize is the luxury of being awesome. May you rule be prosperous.BigSoxFan said:
The whole thing sucks. I don't have sympathy for any of the parties in this. ESPN has zero journalistic integrity, except for OTL, which it has buried in a poor time slot on a subsidiary channel. Goodell obviously has even less credibility than ESPN. Simmons, a once talented, funny writer who practically created a whole new literary genre in his BSG days on Digital City, is a prickly, thin-skinned, prima donna who probably has been at odds with the corporate and editorial brass for years. He gets to play the martyred journalist when in fact he's never been a journalist but an impressario who can recognize writing talent and give it space to run. He's a narcissist who whines when he's not treated as he thinks he should be. We will now spend endless hours debating the merits of his suspension and where Bill fits in the pantheon of reportorial greats. Ugh.
What I find fascinating: Bill Simmons has stayed true to himself and his style/outlook since AOL, for better or worse. He absolutely will be told to just make passing mention of the suspension when he returns and admit he should not have brought the network into it. And he absolutely will not do that, or want to do that. Who/what wins?
The best part about this is how comments of a podcast has gone viral everywhere. T&R played the whole thing this morning and I caught it again on local Denver radio this afternoon. ESPN's PR people, just like the NFL, have once again outdone themselves on their image/optics management. At this point, they should go into Constanza mode and just do the opposite of whatever comes to mind.riboflav said:
Dalton Jones said:
I'm on Team Simbo here, but I think a lot of people in this thread have forgotten that he's been suspended by ESPN multiple times.
The 3 week length could be as much as this is like his 3rd-4th suspension as much as anything else.
BigSoxFan said:
If that was the case, the suspension would have been kept secret and Bill Simmons would have announced he was going to begin a minor league baseball career with hopes of reach the majors.
On the other hand, the NFL is taking a page right out of the Costanza playbook. "It's not a lie if you believe it"Rook05 said:
Hey, SJH pulls on his his pants one leg at a time, just like the next guy.The Allented Mr Ripley said:
They're just higher waisted.
The really important question: did Cousin Sal boycott his new gig on SportsCenter in protest?
Infield Infidel said:
Good read— thanks.
She makes an interesting point in passing that hadn't sunk in for me:
Again, here's what Simmons said:
So, you could possibly read this as Simmons saying, 'OK, Goodell never actually saw the tape before it aired on TMZ, but nevertheless he has no creditable claim to being surprised by its contents'. Not that I think this is actually what Simmons was gunning at, but the fact that his statement is open to this interpretation puts to bed, I think, any last talk of hypothetical defamation suit as was discussed several pages upthread (since BS is speculating about RG's mindset rather than explicit, provable/disprovable actions) and makes ESPN's reaction look marginally even more extreme.
Well I don't know about that old link but the Ombudsman says it's because of the liar comment
http://espn.go.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/id/462/strengths-weaknesses-and-suspensions
I'd have a lot more sympathy for the, he's a douche who embarrassed his bosses (I'd disagree and want them to get the stick out of their asses, but understand).
For it being about saying
My emphasis.
Pathetic. I await the suspensions of half the TV employees for voicing unproven opinion. It's the freaking job description!
http://espn.go.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/id/462/strengths-weaknesses-and-suspensions
I'd have a lot more sympathy for the, he's a douche who embarrassed his bosses (I'd disagree and want them to get the stick out of their asses, but understand).
For it being about saying
My emphasis.
Pathetic. I await the suspensions of half the TV employees for voicing unproven opinion. It's the freaking job description!
C'mon London - what is ESPN supposed to say? "Simmons was suspended because he dared us to take action and we had to slap him down a few notches and we did it for three weeks because he's continually insubordinate?"
If Simmons had left out the part about daring ESPN to come after him, do you really think he would have gotten a three-week suspension?
The podcast would have faded into obscurity like it should have done in the firs place.
From the ombudsman:
I'm surprised that this entire endeavor has the flavor of trying to embarrass Simmons and put him in his place. Putting the suspension story on the front page of the .com, talking about "journalistic standards", the ombudsman saying Simmons is a child, essentially. I mean, probably true, but jeez is this guy your guy or what?
I haven't seriously thought Simmons would leave, but this seems a much more serious dust up than any squabble they've had in the past. Maybe he will.
No it wasn't his intent, not when he was praising ESPN's Rice story earlier in the same podcast. And any overshadowing here of their own coverage was accomplished by ESPN and their over the top suspension. The podcast comments were picked up here and there, but it wasn't until ESPN came out with the suspension that the whole thing was blasted far and wide.
I'm surprised that this entire endeavor has the flavor of trying to embarrass Simmons and put him in his place. Putting the suspension story on the front page of the .com, talking about "journalistic standards", the ombudsman saying Simmons is a child, essentially. I mean, probably true, but jeez is this guy your guy or what?
I haven't seriously thought Simmons would leave, but this seems a much more serious dust up than any squabble they've had in the past. Maybe he will.
The Ombudsmen weak comment banned article failed to address the new evidence from the AP with a named source and everything providing the name of the head of NFL security guy who at least received the tape.
Additionally everyone on the network has basically called Gooddell a liar and I'm sure they're going to walk right up to that line today due to this AP report and if they don't it further undermines their utter lack of care for their journalism side. It also fails to address the elephant in the room of why they've gotten huge criticism in that they are kowtowing to Roger and the NFL and licking their boots.
Bottom line is Skipper was offended and it seems from the article Simmons has a lot of jealous coworkers who can't take how big he's gotten or his cockiness. I'm also surprised Skipper let the ombudsmen basically say it's his position Bill should censor himself on the podcast which is completely against the whole point of the thing.
If I'm Bill I'd spend the next 3 weeks trying to get a sweet gig with the NBA to be their media guy and then be able to tell Skipper " The people don't care about you Skipper. I'm the talent. See you later"
Additionally everyone on the network has basically called Gooddell a liar and I'm sure they're going to walk right up to that line today due to this AP report and if they don't it further undermines their utter lack of care for their journalism side. It also fails to address the elephant in the room of why they've gotten huge criticism in that they are kowtowing to Roger and the NFL and licking their boots.
Bottom line is Skipper was offended and it seems from the article Simmons has a lot of jealous coworkers who can't take how big he's gotten or his cockiness. I'm also surprised Skipper let the ombudsmen basically say it's his position Bill should censor himself on the podcast which is completely against the whole point of the thing.
If I'm Bill I'd spend the next 3 weeks trying to get a sweet gig with the NBA to be their media guy and then be able to tell Skipper " The people don't care about you Skipper. I'm the talent. See you later"
Sports Business Daily has the details of how it all played out: http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Morning-Buzz/2014/09/26/Bill-Simmons.aspx?
Love the detail about how Goodell's "top lieutenants" were pissed about the podcast, but of course Goodell never saw or heard anything. I guess he operates in the dark, about everything.
Love the detail about how Goodell's "top lieutenants" were pissed about the podcast, but of course Goodell never saw or heard anything. I guess he operates in the dark, about everything.
I think we need a new thread title. Let's get the nominations going...
GO AHEAD... I DARE YA...
Such F*cking Bullsh*t
#freesimmons
This is not a protest song, this is Simmons Bloody Simmons.
GO AHEAD... I DARE YA...
Such F*cking Bullsh*t
#freesimmons
This is not a protest song, this is Simmons Bloody Simmons.
LondonSox said:
Yeah, he may be saying this, but this article linked upthread: http://m.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Morning-Buzz/2014/09/26/Bill-Simmons.aspx? says this:
They do, but in a very narrow place -- the serious of injuries (perhaps the truth behind what caused an injury, if it doesn't embarrass the team -- think Paxton Crawford), front office, salary cap, coaching maneuvers. Is Tom Brady hurt? That's a question ESPN can be relied upon to investigate and answer -- even if the "skills" of their reporters are lacking, the ESPN name probably gets them access to sources that are less likely to speak to someone from Yahoo Sports. (Which shows how good the guys at Yahoo Sports are -- they have to rely on their skills.)Comfortably Lomb said:
But on broader issues? Of course not. They can't bite the hands that feed them, and they clearly skew their sports coverage to the sports they broadcast. Is Variety a fair comparison? They aren't going to go hard after coke use in Hollywood, are they? But, of course ESN is very profitable the way it is. "We" don't really want journalism form them -- we want insight into should I start Newton or Kaepernick. They deliver that in spades.
Gotta' keep up the circulation numbers -- though I assume they wink at it and offer a huge "discount" for a print ad for anyone who drops six figures in broadcast or online.NortheasternPJ said:
Anyone ever looked at the Magazine advertisers? I have to assume they are the same ads you'll see on the network. Anyone advertising only in the Magazine is a fool.
Lipsyte comes across as phony as goodell in that column. Just more eloquent.
Espn looks worse. Bravo!
Espn looks worse. Bravo!
jimbobim said:
What do you imagine Simmons would be able to do for the NBA? He is in no way qualified to manage their business relationships and he's already been dismissed from the most visible NBA-related job that he is qualified to have.
ESPN makes more money from affiliate fees in one day than Bill Simmons has generated for them in his entire career. The idea that the company in general or John Skipper personally would be meaningfully harmed by Simmons walking out is laughable. They don't need him at all.
Drocca said:
My bet is that he turns it into a quasi-joke about it being a coverup for him being suspended for gambling.
Dehere said:
He could probably generate a lot of original content under an NBA.com type umbrella. He could also be used on TV, or other internet type media, such as podcasts or YouTube. He's pretty versatile and valuable.
The problem in thinking he could work for the NBA is that he inevitably will end up in the same position he stands in today. Some large scandal will surface about Adam Silver or an NBA owner (because it is 2014), and Simmons will want to rip the target of scorn in one of his media outlets. They'll get pissed at him, and the cycle shall repeat. That is why I don't think he'll go to any other traditional media/sports company.
If he values not having to answer to a corporate boss and traditional rules, I can see him starting his own company and succeeding. With his own company, he can piss off as many or as few advertisers as he pleases. I would find a step like this refreshing.
Re: Lipsyte, I totally agree with previous posters on his recent ombuds article. His views strike me as an out of touch old fart who doesn't understand digital media. In particular, I chuckled at his question of "who reviews content, such as podcasts, before posting?"
One of the primary benefits of a podcast is the direct connection between the content creator and the consumer. When you add bureaucracy, filtering, and standards & practices between that connection, you may as well dial into FM terrestrial radio instead. I'm not even a fan of the BS report, but this is a pretty basic concept.
GBrushTWood said:
The place where I could see him really thriving creatively and financially if he ever left ESPN would be satellite radio. Yes he would still have corporate bosses but that would be a good environment for him creatively.
Definitely agree that the NBA or any other league would just bring all the restrictions of ESPN without the benefits of their corporate infrastructure or brand power.
Simmons should team up with Mike Francesa on WFAN in New York and then secure a solid simulcast that can be seen across the country.
He'd have a nationwide forum for 4 hours on a daily basis.
He'd be a huge hit IMO.
He'd have a nationwide forum for 4 hours on a daily basis.
He'd be a huge hit IMO.
GBrushTWood said:
Re: Lipsyte - you're absolutely right, he comes across as a barnacle. The guy's previous handle was "accidental sportswriter" - "accidental omsbudsman" works as a semi-retierement gig, I suppose.
Beyond his old & in the way approach, though, he's set himself up in a really poor way. He defends the suspension, which positions him as a defender of the NFL shield. But - anyone who's thought through this at all knows that Simmons is right, and Goodell is lying. Will that come out? If it does, the defenders of the shield are going to get called out and humiliated.
So...Lipsyte stands up for ESPN's investigation of Goodell to date. But if/when they find the truth, Lipsyte himself is now in position to get piered by the fallout. Does he root for full and honest reporting, as far as it can go, and then a (well-deserved) excoriation of the shield defenders, including himself? Or does he pull for limited disclosure?
I thought the ombudsman was supposed to mitigate conflicts of interest, not create them...
wade boggs chicken dinner said:
Well that may be the case but if so then the they should probably stop claiming the title ombudsman. If he's a company man than he needs to stop. Having a under the thumb management controlled published ombudsman is worse than not having one, by some distance.
A rundown of Simmons vs. ESPN through the years.
http://deadspin.com/the-sports-guy-vs-espn-how-bill-simmons-lost-bristol-1639533260
http://deadspin.com/the-sports-guy-vs-espn-how-bill-simmons-lost-bristol-1639533260
It's tough to tell where I'm landing with all that denim.Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
ESPN basically suspended Simmons for not having evidence to back up a claim about a sports commissioner. You know, the same guy who's been saying that Stern cooked the Ewing lottery for more than a decade and keeps it up every time he writes about the Cavs.
"Of course I bit you! I'm a fucking snake!"
joe dokes said:
Deadspin must be sort of confused right now. The only thing they love more than hating Simmons is hating ESPN. They must feel like the humans in a monster movie when the monsters start fighting each other instead of eating people.
NatetheGreat said:
Then you just get more popcorn.
I think Simmons has been consistent from Day 1 of his career. He didn't like the hierarchical authority at his first gig at the Herald. And he doesn;t much appreciate authority now. But at some point, either you have to deal with it, or you pick up your needle and move it to a different groove, as Timothy Leary once said.
Others have speculated where he might go. He's already at the biggest sports platform there is. Chafing about authority aside, I don't think he could do what he does anywhere else but ESPN/Disney, except on a much smaller scale. I also don't see him heading his own Grantland-ish outfit. There's a business side to the ESPN umbrella under which he sits that, as far as I know, he's pretty far removed from.
amlothi said:
Bah, they're not voicing their own unproven opinions, but those of the network's. Thus, everything's fine!
JBill said:
Boy, if ESPN didn't want Simmons' podcast to go viral, they sure went about it the wrong way.
touchstone033 said:
I am increasingly convinced that no corporation should ever hire an executive without first checking to make sure they understand the Streisand principle
NatetheGreat said:
Indeed, much like the RG problem itself, however this is parsed and whether what Simmons did was appropriate or not, this just seems like another clumsy handling of something related to Goodell because people felt something needed to be done.
Nothing really had to be done about this, did it? Media personality postures on internet--story at 11.
Agreed---whatever he was earlier in his career, Lipsyte currently is a PR hack masquerading as an ombudsman.Clears Cleaver said:
