I'm not being unnecessarily argumentative. I'm trying to reconcile statements like this...
And this....
Reconcile statements? You some kind of linguistic accountant?
I assure you I read what you wrote and while I know you talked in a previous post about the volume of said person, I'm not seeing how the people directly behind, next to or in front of you can have an audible conversation without you being able to hear it. Loud and obnoxious is loud and obnoxious, so I don't see the difference what the subject matter is. Saying those people impact the enjoyment of others is stating the obvious. I'm just as annoyed by some ass hole screaming at the pitcher as I am about someone talking loudly about their date last night. But you seem to be ok with loud and obnoxious if it's about the game, but not with off topic subject matter, which seems odd to me.
So again, I'm not being argumentative...
Yeah, you kinda are. Seems to me like you're looking for a fight over the definition of "loud and obnoxious" or something.
I'm wondering how you don't see it as at least somewhat hypocritical - parents should expect their children to hear swearing when they go to the park, because it's the Church of baseball and it's part of the game, so it's ok that their experience is ruined. But you shouldn't have to expect to be able to hear someone talk unless it's about the game because it ruins your experience.
I see the problem now. I didn't say I expect not to be able to hear people talk at baseball games unless they're talking about baseball games. I expect to hear people talk about all sorts of stuff. I also expect to hear fans swear. I expect some of them to stand up a lot and block people's view, spill their beer on other people and for a few to pick drunken fights. I also expect most fans will behave well, to offer to switch seats to give a young kid a better view, to pass hot dogs down a row in one direction and money in the other and to not make a bathroom/concession run with runners on base in a close game.
It's awesome that you like to zone in, keep a scorecard and talk the game. I'm not being sarcastic there. I generally only go to games with a handful of people because I also enjoy the company of others that appreciate the game and I generally give shit to people that go to games as a social event with no interest. Which is why I only go to a handful of games a year. Because I expect obnoxious people to be there and frankly I don't care what they are talking about.
First, thanks for the non-sarcastic recognition of my baseball fan awesomeness. Second, I too expect to be seated near the occasional obnoxious person at a ballgame. I'm not at all clear about why you're giving me a hard time about (a) sharing a trick that sometimes gets inconsiderate chatterboxes to pipe down and (b) recognizing, as you do, that lots of fans swear at ballgames and that that's part of the ballpark experience... in my experience, at least. (In my experience, back in the '70s, a bleacher seat ticket was a two-fer. You got to watch a ballgame AND at least one fight. Sometimes even a WWE-style brawl.) Why is swearing -- "Fucking Farrell! Take the bum out already!!!" -- different from someone telling eight rows of baseball fans in every direction all about their neighbor's divorce or their trip to Disneyland? Dunno. To me, it just is
But yes, it's antiquated to expect that experience at a ballpark in today's age. Or anywhere in modern society, when you get down to it. People are inconsiderate. Best to either prepare or avoid. Otherwise, the terrorists win.
"Prepare or avoid" is my motto too. It's good advice, especially if you have small, impressionable children with limited "colorful" vocabularies. Asking someone politely to pipe down or temper the cuss words isn't bad either. Be careful out there, though. Some people can be touchy.
Look, basically, you're trying to make two points:
- people should be respectful of those around them and act within social boundaries of acceptable behavior - I totally agree and I don't think anyone disagrees with that; ideal world and all; I assure you I deal with ignorant ass holes far more often than you do, on a daily basis in fact; people suck; no one is arguing that and it's pointless to mention it. Kittens are also cute.
- people should understand the environment they are entering and be ready and willing to accept the consequences of that - I totally agree
You put it so much more succinctly than I did. Thanks.
Where I draw issue is that for some reason you think expecting people to swear at a park in front of kids should be expected, but people talking at levels within earshot about subjects other than the game shouldn't be?
That's not what I said at all. Or, at least, it's not what I meant. Again, I expect both. And it's not people talking
audibly about whatever that's obnoxious. Everyone does that at a game. It's "loud talkers." (Wasn't there a Seinfeld episode about this?)
Being inconsiderate enough to swear in front of children is kosher but talking about their vacation isn't. It strikes me as hypocritical.
You're belaboring the point, so I'll belabor my reply. You've misunderstood and are mis-stating my position. First, I said I don't really know where I stand on the matter of swearing at ballgames when there' are kids nearby. That should have been obvious from the "On the other hand..." Personally, I wouldn't do it. I'm not sure I'd be too critical of fans that did, though. Second, I didn't say talking about your vacation isn't kosher. I said annoying the people sitting around you and ruining their ballpark experience is rude. It's bad manners.
And it strikes me that, yes, you have an unrealistic expectation when going to a ballpark based on the romantic memories of your childhood. And your Church of Baseball. We all have those memories and you specifically mentioned them. It just might be time to adjust them.
Thanks, but I'm already reasonably well-adjusted, not especially nostalgic about my childhood memories of Fenway and attend ballgames with a fairly low expectation of fan behavior. But then, I live in Michigan now, so most games I attend are in Detroit where the fans are somewhat less... hmm, how to put this... less revelrous and less reverent. The "Church of Baseball" thing was a
Bull Durham reference, by the way. Seriously, Paps, lighten up a little.